What Is The Word "cert" Mean On Wf

[Brasten]

developing the game with OpenGL (or the comprable graphics API for PS4).

Oh how I wish that were the case. Then we could see Linux/Mac port. No, the PS4 and Xbox both use DirectX with the software version of the Nivida PhysX. Its DirectX & PhysX.

It's actually why Warframe can be ported as fast as it can to the Consoles in the first place. And why we will never see Warframe for a Nintendo platform (outside of other issues).

Edited July 3, 2014 by Brasten

[Isro]

I hate to bite more then I can chew and kinder weird me saying that with a dog on your image Letter13 but are you sure the DE don't delay updates? or am I just seeing it wrong..and what I mean is that U14 is not out yet and alot of players are getting rather well Hysteria about it.

 

And if I remaber right an old game I played, can't remaber right but did update news and then it took like 5-50 weeks for to come out, AKA Delays. and what its been one month and 2 weeks so far. And as I read in my head that's what you call an Delay.

 

 

But it might be just me, i'm not sure but feel free to correct me Letter13. and i'm going to push my luck a tiny bit now but DE will never PM players on a small "update" on something that is coming out or such right?, As long they don't post it on the forms

 

Anyways replay as soon you can Letter13 and note I will read comments from other users but will not replay to them until Letter13 himself has answered my qeastion

DE doesn't actually give a release date for their PC patches and typically release as soon as it is ready.  Unlike with the PS4 where you can talk about the delay between PS4 and PC since you have time between the content due to port time and cert time (5-7 days I think typically for cert time).

[letir]

Which makes me question DE's thought process. Why are they going to Xbone too? Do they want more rage? Coming from an xbox background, there will plenty to go around if cert is just as long.

They try to get a new platform. It's give them more players (and money, ofc).

 

About rage...

 

Better to have a game with slow improvements than not to have access to the game at all.

[Rule907]

I hate to bite more then I can chew and kinder weird me saying that with a dog on your image Letter13 but are you sure the DE don't delay updates? or am I just seeing it wrong..and what I mean is that U14 is not out yet and alot of players are getting rather well Hysteria about it.

 

And if I remaber right an old game I played, can't remaber right but did update news and then it took like 5-50 weeks for to come out, AKA Delays. and what its been one month and 2 weeks so far and still no update 14. And as I read in my head that's what you call an Delay.

 

 

But it might be just me, i'm not sure but feel free to correct me Letter13. and i'm going to push my luck a tiny bit now but DE will never PM players on a small "update" on something that is coming out or such right?, As long they don't post it on the forms

 

Anyways replay as soon you can Letter13 and note I will read comments from other users but will not replay to them until Letter13 himself has answered my qeastion

I don't know what you mean its been a month and 2 weeks for U14.They just show cased some stuff for U14 they never gave an exact date of release. Furthermore seeing as how last week was 13.9 and the week before was 13.8 and so on and so forth. Its as of now been a day of actual update waiting.

[(PSN)KuroScythe]

Warframe starts on PC. DE got early support from PC. So, PC = main platform right now. Deal with it.

 

DE is small team and don't have enough manpower for both. Maybe later, then Warframe leave "beta" status, they will speed up something.

If so then I hate to say it but they never should have shipped to PS4 because how I see it they weren't prepared. They got into a market they weren't prepared for and now they have hate coming in because of PC. They should have just stayed to PC and be done with it because from what I've read and seen they are way in over their heads. A large team for PC and a very small 3 person team for PS4, That's just bullcrap. It doesn't matter if they started on PC if they are going to try and port it to PS4 then they should have had their S#&$ together before trying something like this with such a small team. Because how I have seen the PC players treat the PS4 players then they should of just kept the damn thing. It's drama drama drama everywhere.

[Beas7ie]

Wow. So in a way they are saying screw the fanbase of PS4 and get a PC or play the crappy version. Doesn't matter if I am wrong but that just said more than I needed to know. I think I'm done with warframe. This just disappoints me so much. I was so happy about the game on PS4 but now seeing as how they treat it and the fanbase I have lost faith. I just can't believe it had so much potential for the PS4 if they would just take the time and update the at the same time but apparently PC is so much more important that PS4 players should just buy a damn PC if they want to have a full experience and have fun. But no I have lost faith. Thank you DE for the time but you guys need to pull it together or choose one but not both. It seems to be too much of a hassle for you guys and way too much work apparently.

Well the game was originally designed and created on and for the PC, which is the most powerful system and if DE were to start delaying PC updates just so they can sync up with the PS4 and soon to be Xbone crowds hopping on the bad wagon, that would also be like a slap in the face, followed by a kick in the balls, followed by the middle finger to all the PC players.

This was a big issue when Warframe was first announced that it would be developed on PS4 and all us PC players were worried about DE possibly delaying updates that were done and ready to go on the PC version just so the PS4 version of the updates can get through all the paperwork to get released.

If so then I hate to say it but they never should have shipped to PS4 because how I see it they weren't prepared. They got into a market they weren't prepared for and now they have hate coming in because of PC. They should have just stayed to PC and be done with it because from what I've read and seen they are way in over their heads. A large team for PC and a very small 3 person team for PS4, That's just bullcrap. It doesn't matter if they started on PC if they are going to try and port it to PS4 then they should have had their S#&$ together before trying something like this with such a small team. Because how I have seen the PC players treat the PS4 players then they should of just kept the damn thing. It's drama drama drama everywhere.

Guess what buddy. In most other multiplatform games it's the PC players who get the $hit end of the deal because most devs create the games for the inferior consoles and THEN they port it to the PC. As a PC player it's kind of nice to be on the other side for once.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Letter13

[(PSN)KuroScythe]

Guess what buddy.  In most other multiplatform games it's the PC players who get the $hit end of the deal because most  devs create the games for the inferior consoles and THEN they port it to the PC.  As a PC player it's kind of nice to be on the other side for once.

How so? With PC you can you get a S#&$ty game and then mod the hell out of it and upgrade it. You guys are always on the better side with graphics and content and games only for PC. So don't complain when you guys almost always get the better end of the deal and consoles get crapped on.

[Isro]

How so? With PC you can you get a S#&$ty game and then mod the hell out of it and upgrade it. You guys are always on the better side with graphics and content and games only for PC. So don't complain when you guys almost always get the better end of the deal and consoles get crapped on.

You mean a third party(someone from the player base possibly) creates their own fix/patch to somewhat fix the bad port to pc.  As for games only for pc (not including indie titles) there are also a lot of console exclusive titles. PS4 already has 26 exclusive titles, and the PC had 25 exclusive titles in the past 2 years.  Graphically you can of course always make a computer that can outperform a console.

 

Consoles are now more accessible it seems to indie developers, though I'm not sure if you will ever see mods allowed.

 

As for Warframes staff I understand they started with a staff of 30 and expanded to around 200.  It seems to take about 2-3 weeks for the PS4 localization team to send a patch for certification with 3 members.  I'm not sure if there are specific reasons why they bundle several patches into one.  There is probably some reason that makes this method more efficient.

 

I think that switching from PC development and PS4 localization to a simultaneous development for both platforms may be difficult with what seems to be spur of the moment changes to intended development paths.  It is also probably cheaper to port the software after completion then it is to try and develop for both simultaneously.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Isro

[Beas7ie]

How so? With PC you can you get a S#&$ty game and then mod the hell out of it and upgrade it. You guys are always on the better side with graphics and content and games only for PC. So don't complain when you guys almost always get the better end of the deal and consoles get crapped on.

 

 

Not all PC games are like Skyrim where you get all the cool tools to make the amazing mods.  And even then we STILL get $hit on because even those games like Skyrim were designed around the 360 and the PS3 and THEN ported over to the PC.  Also the controller set up on the consoles does make limits on the various, attacks, skills, techniques, movement, and other abilities you can do, and thus while most keyboards(whether they are normal or specialized gaming keyboards) can easily handle having a ton of skills and dodging and blocking abilities, the controller can't and thus you are limited on what you can do.

 

Quick factoid.  In Skyrim you can't block while dual wielding weapons because there weren't enough buttons on the controller for the consoles.  Even though Bethesda would have had no problem making a block key for the PC version on the keyboard, they just decided to screw over PC players anyways and give them the same restriction, and sure there are mods to add in new things and fix bugs, but when you have 200+ mods running on a game, it really bogs it down if your PC isn't up to snuff. 

 

 

Also PC players still get the shaft because even the "modern" games are developed around the console technology which is at least a few years behind the PC technology.  Remember when the PS4 and Xbone first came out and were showing off how pretty and amazing the graphics on all their games were, such as Ryze, Son of Rome?   Well guess what.  PC's had the power to render those pretty graphics in real time years ago, but the games were built on last gen technology instead of PC technology and thus all those "amazingly pretty games" came out years later then they could have and games that came out years ago, came out with graphics that were way inferior to what they COULD have made.

 

The reason they do all this is because of money.  Most game devs are sellouts and and want to cater to as big a crowd as they could, and sadly there are far more little kiddies with an Xbox or Playstation that mommy and daddy got for them, or people who just don't want to F*** with PCs then there are of real PC gamers who take the time to build, and upgrade their PC's to get the most power possible out of them.

 

 

So long story short.   PC players usually get the shaft.   Also in a slightly related matter, Watch Dogs was HORRIBLE on the PC with tons of bugs, graphics errors, and other problems because once again, it was a game that was designed for the consoles and then just S#&$tly ported to PC with no effort to take advantage of the PCs power, or even work to make sure it worked properly.  And don't even get me started on Demon's Souls.  

 

So there you go, most of the time PC players get screwed and console players get the good stuff.  This time it's the other way around.  Normally I would say payback is a *@##$ at this point, but the PC version getting the SAME updates as the PS4 verison only a few weeks ahead makes this far from "even".  If you could even use a saying like that.  

[letir]

If so then I hate to say it but they never should have shipped to PS4 because how I see it they weren't prepared. They got into a market they weren't prepared for and now they have hate coming in because of PC. They should have just stayed to PC and be done with it because from what I've read and seen they are way in over their heads. A large team for PC and a very small 3 person team for PS4, That's just bullcrap. It doesn't matter if they started on PC if they are going to try and port it to PS4 then they should have had their S#&$ together before trying something like this with such a small team. Because how I have seen the PC players treat the PS4 players then they should of just kept the damn thing. It's drama drama drama everywhere.

That's how you treat peoples, who gave you good game on your platform? Not "thank you, De", not "GJ for small team", but: "GIVE ME UPDATE NOW OR GET OUT FROM PS4!!!"... Peoples like you really awesome... in bad way.

 

 

This is how world works, son. Games developed in many ways, sometimes you have a short stick. Shut up and dealt with it.

P.S. I really want downvote button back.

Edited July 4, 2014 by letir

[(PSN)clips_ahoii]

Sorry been away, I still see pc people feel they should be ahead of every game system.

[nefrai]

Letter, I can't believe you responded so politely so many times to this thread - this is trolling, pure and simple. Clips isn't reading what you are saying, he's chosen his belief and that's it. To anyone who games on PC and consoles, it should be pretty obvious. The game is designed for PC, and ported to PS4. Since most of us don't care at all about playing co-op between PS4 and PC, it doesn't matter if the updates hit PC first. It would be silly to hold back an update on PC (which DE has full control over), for the PS4 update Sony will "eventually" approve. PS4 gamers aren't being slighted, the update wouldn't be any faster for PS4 either way.

 

And the bonus for PS4, is that DE sees a new update in the wild first on PC, and can get a fix out for the PS4 right away (while we deal with the bugs on PC). But this is not something Clips can comprehend. If he can't understand content being certified...kind of a lost cause there. Letter 13's post explaining cert was right on the mark.

[Beas7ie]

Sorry been away, I still see pc people feel they should be ahead of every game system.

 

Well excuse us for not wanting to wait forever and a day for completed updates to come out on our end due to Sony and friends derping around with inspections and crap of your PS4 updates.  

 

Get over and it and remember that the reverse usually happens to us PC players in multiplatform games.

[Fubukin]

Kz shadowfall

Killzone is a flagship title, Warframe may be the most downloaded game on PS4 right now, but it isn't an exclusive and thus no system seller.

Also, as far as I noticed, PS4 builds usually aren't even started yet when the PC one is released, so there's porting, adapting, compiling, then sending off to cert which takes 2-10 days or so.

As long as they don't have a 'compile PC ver for PS4' button and instant publishing on PSN (or delay the PC ver accordingly each time), don't expect that rainbow bridge to be on.

Delaying the PC ver would require them to leave the open beta phase behind them, though, as weekly updates and daily hotfixes are out of question in that case.

[(PSN)clips_ahoii]

Nope, delaying the PC version would require them to delay it. They wouldn't have to leave beta just because the platforms are up to par

[(PSN)clips_ahoii]

I can verify this as true.

 

Currently, as far as I know, there is a PS4 dev/QA team that works independently from the PC developer team. While they're taking the current PC update and working on porting/localizing/translating it from PC code to PS4 code, the main developer team (the PC folks) are already working on the next update, patch, features, etc.

 

If DE had a bigger PS4 Dev/QA team, they could probably push out updates much faster. More manpower = faster and wider QA Testing and more simultaneous work being done. If DE massively reallocated resources and absorbed the PS4 team into the PC development, it would probably even be possible to send updates out to Sony cert at roughly the same time they're released on PC... But this would require quite a bit of restructuring for the development process, and would likely cause delays for both platforms while management really streamlines the process.

equally delayed, keep in mind

[Maxscart]

...

You guys do realize delaying the update so they are released at the same time will STILL be no benefit for PS4 players, right?

Bascially, I see a lot of the PS4 posters with a "If I can't have it you can't either" and "If I get it badly so should you" mentality. And not only is that a really sad and pathetic mentality, but also a horrible argument and excuse.

So I'll go ahead and type what is probably the most overused quote: "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind".

And while that usually applies to revenge and payback it couldn't hold truer here. It's a lose-lose situation as someone previously said. Tough luck buddy, you're STILL not getting any improvement!

Edited July 5, 2014 by Maxscart

[TenshuYuusha]

I think people (oddly the PS4 players complaining here) need a common man analogy:

Imagine a distribution company (don't question what they distribute, it's just 'good stuff' :3). Imagine they have to send out their goods to two places. One place is readily able to take their goods, most likely because they're familiar with the company or the owner has a very fast and effective way of getting the goods on time as the distribution company prepares them. The other place has a lot of red tape procedures in getting those goods, they need to check serial numbers, they need to check all types of things to make sure it works for their place, therefore stuff gets shipped to them slower than the previous place. Would you really blame the distribution company for the second place getting their stuff slower than the first? Or would you question the second place's policies?

DE is not putting PC development over PS4 development, they may have things already ready, it's just Sony takes their sweet @$$ time making sure everything is ready for you guys, which may not be the most efficient way to do it if all DE is doing is optimizing a PC update for use on the PS4 hardware.

DE having a separate PS4 team that's smaller than the PC team doesn't really justify any complaint PS4 players may have if Sony's still acting like toll booths in New Jersey.

Edited July 5, 2014 by TenshuYuusha

[jnka]

What I'm saying is if the sides where flipped, it would be the same complaints.

The sides would never be flipped, due to the simple reason that the PC version lacks external certification.

 

Basically all consoles games require certifiction of updates, wherein you pay sony, ms, nintendo, send them the patch and they test it for a week or so, before it even gets deployed. 

 

So imagine if your code for PC and PS4 is the same (and you don't actually have to port anything) 

 

You go on PC

Developement > internal testing > deployment

On a console

Developement > internal testing > submit to certification > certification > deployment 

 

Another thing to keep in mind is, that you can only submit to certification a limited times in any given timeframe, so you will generally do much bigger updates.

 

As a result, the only time the PC base would be behind consoles is, if development started way way later or if it was artificially held up. Alternatively you could have 1 to 1 updates on both the console and the PC, but that would go against the promise made to the larger player base.

[Elijin]

There is such a mix of right and wrong here!

 

First off, the console players are right, most hotfixes can be pushed out without being cert processed. However, as a general rule of thumb I imagine they dont need to push as many out, due to the slight delay due to porting the patches to PS4 and then getting cert'd, the hotfix is probably just deployed directly into the patch. Since in that time, the issues were identified on PC and fixed. Obviously this wont always be true, I imagine PS4 has a few of its own unique bugs too.

But the whole 'DE is telling PS4 to get nicked'....

Im going to go out on a limb here and say that not only is the PC community much much larger, but its more common for PC users to spend money on plat. Why would you delay patches on the platform which is making you financially viable, to cater to a extremely new and significantly smaller secondary playerbase?

The real telling thing here, is how many of the PS4 players would be happy to wait for the Xbox to get patches when that happens? I imagine at that point, the PS4 users will suddenly see the merit in each platform getting the patch as quickly as it can.

[Letter13]

Going to go ahead and lock this. The discussion's gone full circle and it's been explained repeatedly what the certification is, why it's needed on the PS4, the fact that it exists for every PS4 game that pushes out updates and how DE goes about porting/localizing the PC-developed Warframe for the PS4 console.