I Would Like To Thank Steve For Throwing Down The Mic On The Mods And Joining The Scott Side Of The Void.

[Mak_Gohae]

This is what players need to hear.

If they choose cookie-cutter builds because they were told that this is how you should build and then never go on to explore other mods that is solely their fault.

You do not NEED to use most of those mods every single second to get through most of the game. And i say most because once you get to Rank ridiculous of course you have to be as ridiculous but that is just a small section of the game.

 

I dont agree with the band-aid comment and i go back to what The Great Scott said in the last stream, that these mods are there for people who need them. There are some people who are better than others at certain things and if you are having that much trouble there's a mod for you.

 

Seriously Steve and Scott, keep going with this attitude, this is the type of thing that would make the game better.

And bring back the Mutalist Osprey because amount of hurt over the fact that their standard builds nullified a bit was a good way to teach folks to equip other stuff.

 

So thank you "Evil" Steve and i hope you continue on!

 

[Yaerion]

Thread Vortexed.

[SignumCruxis]

Steve, I love you.

Thank you.

Edited July 4, 2014 by SignumCruxis

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I don't, Steve was probably just mad that he was told there is no skill in WF, it's all about the mods. If he actually sat down and read the thread, I think he'd change his mind.

 

Or maybe he did. That's worse imo.

[Vunie]

+1 for steve 

[MDRLOz]

I just want to say how awesome you were on the live-stream.

It was great to see you support the Mod system so passionately.
MoD system is so unique, original and freeing of any progression system I have played.

Keep on being awesome Steve.

 

Mod system for ever!

Edited July 5, 2014 by MDRLOz

[Khranitel]

Expect next "scrap this game and make a new one for me" thread soon.

[Katakuna]

I can appreciate that he didn't sugarcoat his answer.

 

He's probably had that thread mentioned to him so many times he's sick of hearing about it.

[SharkWithALaserBeam]

edit: nobody wanted to help me explain what this was.

Edited July 4, 2014 by SharkWithALaserBeam

[CBAROG]

Steve was probably just mad that he was told there is no skill in WF, it's all about the mods. 

This.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I can appreciate that he didn't sugarcoat his answer.

 

He's probably had that thread mentioned to him so many times he's sick of hearing about it.

A better way to reply for him would have been... I dunno... posting in the thread. Saying why he doesn't like the idea, and why his idea is better. Not just calling it bullS#&$.

 

Know what's cool about that way of responding? Everyone can be referred back to the post, and it shows that they have actually read the thread.

 

Oh, and it allows a new discussion start, one debating those points, which in turn may or may not convince him.

Edited July 4, 2014 by KvotheTheArcane1

[CBAROG]

I can appreciate that he didn't sugarcoat his answer.

 

He's probably had that thread mentioned to him so many times he's sick of hearing about it.

At least it was an honest answer.

[LukeAura]

 

I can appreciate that he didn't sugarcoat his answer.

I continue to have concerns with his attitude but you are indeed correct. 
Most straightforward answer we've ever had in a devstream.

[CBAROG]

A better way to reply for him would have been... I dunno... posting in the thread. Saying why he doesn't like the idea, and why his idea is better. Not just calling it bullS#&$.

He's too busy "inventing" "new" mods to show that he's not "scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of ideas"

 

[Zeally]

I see a lot of people  that need to get over themselves posting in this thread.

[MortalSage]

He did say why he didn't like it and addressed the many false accusations in the thread. I agree with many points by zamboni but at the end of the day he's pandering to an audience that wants warframe to be a different game. The old skill tree system was regular, boring, and has been reiterated in most games that I've played. The mod system is not only unique, it puts the game in the players hands, something most developers would be way to afraid to do. What's more challenging adding to a skill tree for vets, or dealing with the insane amount of damage and utility a player can add to a weapon or frame. Not only that but building content around the extremes that we as players are continuously finding and pushing. Hat's off to you DE.

[The66Monkey]

Steve is the man.

I love that DE is honest and dosn't spew the corporate bullsh*t that we are so used to hearing from game developers.

 

An honest and informed answer on a topic that he had considered and thought about, he admited that the fusing upgrade wasn't 100% perfect in retrospect but that moving forward the game will develop and how the system evolves in U14 will be intresting.

[Momoynator]

Holy crap guys, so much hostility. If you don't like the system, you don't have to! No one's forcing you to like it and likewise saying that there is no skill in Warframe and it all relies on mods is false. Wear your best mods and stand still in any game mode. I dare you.

 

It does rely on the mod system like any MMO relies on it's spells/talent trees, but the use of them is what defines the player's skill.

[Fraank]

Actually in warframe is no need for "skill". You need good strategies for different mission types.

strategy is everything.

more (formad) warframes/weapons+ mod variety = more possibilities to solve a "problem".

 

The only skills you need are movement and dodging skills.

[SignumCruxis]

Holy crap guys, so much hostility. If you don't like the system, you don't have to! No one's forcing you to like it and likewise saying that there is no skill in Warframe and it all relies on mods is false. Wear your best mods and stand still in any game mode. I dare you.

 

It does rely on the mod system like any MMO relies on it's spells/talent trees, but the use of them is what defines the player's skill.

^

^^^^^^^^^^

 

I read some mod system suggestion threads and honestly while some have their plus points, the majority make me cringe in their limitations.

Edited July 4, 2014 by SignumCruxis

[CBAROG]

An honest and informed answer on a topic that he had considered and thought about, 

I think I watched a different Devstream. What I saw was just an angry developer trying to protect his flawed creation.

[[DE]Momaw]

Well to an extent it's true. It has less to do with specific mods and more to do with the way players progress relative to enemies. It basically doesn't matter how bad of a player you are: if you have super-awesome fully upgraded mods, derping around on Mercury is like bugs hitting a windshield because enemies can't really hurt you and explode in gore as soon as you look at them.  But that stops being absolutely true at around level 15, where enemies can actually start to hurt you if you aren't utilizing good movement, fast aiming, and your warframe powers.  The further you go, the less and less good mod configuration and high fusion ranks matters if you don't bring the player skill.  I bring "bad" weapons to missions all the time and do just fine at solar system type levels.

 

Personally for me the biggest frustration with mods is that the "required"/core mods take up so much of our capacity.  Basically if you aren't using Serration+Split chamber, or Hornetstrike+Barrel diffusion, you're doing it wrong. I want to use more non-essential mods, but there just isn't space or mod points for them.

 

What I would love to see is the core mod functionality rolled into the weapon's inherent rank, like how warframes get more shield and energy for free, and introduce more mods that change the way weapons BEHAVE (Firestorm, Thunderbolt) instead of just adding more damage.

[korxysn]

Steve had a point. theres a distinct difference between the mod system as it is now and the typical loot system of a majority of games. the innate flexibiilty of the system allows far more variability in both builds and play style. the skill component is how well you mesh these two things together.

 

an example - if you insist on using shotguns at medium to long range, having the spread mods would actually lower your damage output. on the other hand, having spread mods in point blank or for pure crowd control works really well.

 

you dont just magically get stronger when you get the mods, you have to design (or have someone else design) a build, and get that build to function well under your specific playstyle.

 

 

just because you need mods doesnt mean the game lacks skill, or de-emphasizes skill. having a no-mod system; a skill tree, or any of the other typical method of progression actually mitigates skill to a greater degree than the mods do. think about how many 'waste points' are typically used in games that have the other styles of progression. how much variability is there in the gear of those games as far as endgame gear goes?

theres mods that appear virtually in every build, and that does need to be addressed... but the system itself isnt flawed.

[gnat6]

I don't, Steve was probably just mad that he was told there is no skill in WF, it's all about the mods. If he actually sat down and read the thread, I think he'd change his mind.

 

Or maybe he did. That's worse imo.

It sounded to me like he read it but missed the entire point of the thread because the thing is warframe does require skill until you get the right mods and as we see on prime time many of the warframe staff use terrible mod selections so the game still does require skill for them.

However I do appreciate the fact that he gave a strait answer instead of dodging the question.

[TenshuYuusha]

^

^^^^^^^^^^

 

I read some mod system suggestion threads and honestly while some have their plus points, the majority make me cringe in their limitations.

Unless someone wants to give a cliffnotes version of all those pages, I just read the big first post, figured any new ideas afterwards would be edited in and I posted there already, I think it overcomplicates the game. The Warframe itself having a skilltree is ok, but now gun attachments, STANCES having their own skilltrees with their own parameters. Creativity is good, but you gotta have a healthy balance of simple and complex, not saying the mod system is perfect but you can do some neat things to your stuff or augment your Warframe's powers differently and it's a little fun being able to do that. The problem is with the opposition, the enemies need work, they need some sophisticated AI and that may come with time. Because even if that thread's idea was considered and implemented, it doesn't solve anything if the enemies still keel over just by sneezing at them unless you spent an hour+ in a Survival.