The Navigator And Old Star Map

[Ralathar44]

I hate the new solar system UI, you'd think with all that extra space they'd at least indicate which maps you could join teams on at a glance, but nnnooooo.  Clunky, less useful, less information, and no real benefit other than it looks cleaner and is easier for console users to navigate, while being harder for PC users to navigate.

[iamnuff1]

I kind of like me being in the center...I always felt funny hovering up over the map like that. I agree though, the actual menus within the ship need some work. But hey, DE's usually pretty good about fixing stuff like that.

 

 

you realize that's how actual maps work though, right?

 

you see whatever world/country/city you are looking at a map of, from above.

 

that's kind of the purpose of a map.

[vaugahn]

you realize that's how actual maps work though, right?

 

you see whatever world/country/city you are looking at a map of, from above.

 

that's kind of the purpose of a map.

 

Except this is a video game. It's not supposed to be an actual map, it's supposed to be the navigation console of a futuristic spaceship.

[iamnuff1]

Except this is a video game. It's not supposed to be an actual map, it's supposed to be the navigation console of a futuristic spaceship.

 

and why should that preclude a "from above" view of the star-chart? you navigate things from above because it gives you the widest view, whether its a starchart or a map of a themepark. that's just common sense, 

 

damn near every space game i have every played that actually had a map had it done like that.

[vaugahn]

and why should that preclude a "from above" view of the star-chart? you navigate things from above because it gives you the widest view, whether its a starchart or a map of a themepark. that's just common sense, 

 

damn near every space game i have every played that actually had a map had it done like that.

 

Unfortunately going off about how the map is bad because it's not from above is a bit of a strawman argument. More pressing problems are the lack of labels, not showing resource drops on mouseover, awkward scrolling, samey planets, and a lack of information at the node level.

 

As I've said many times before, this UI is easily fixable.

[ApprenticeNoob]

#1 It seems like they used classic old school star maps as the model for the current UI.  Anybody got a compass?

 

#2 Just copy Mass Effect already... no need to reinvent the wheel.

 

Edited July 23, 2014 by ApprenticeNoob

[-CM-s7even]

#1 It seems like they used classic old school star maps as the model for the current UI.  Anybody got a compass?

 

#2 Just copy Mass Effect already... no need to reinvent the wheel.

 

 

OMG yes DE Pls!

[Methanoid]

That really comes down to personal preference. For me, floating above the solar system felt silly, like I wasn't really doing anything. The first time I saw a massive grineer ship fly over my window in the new UI I was like "holy crap, can I go kill that?" I feel like I'm actually there doing something now.

 

except you cant go kill it, you know you cant go kill it, your watching an animated flyby via your jail-cell viewport with that animated skybox, i dont see how watchign stuff move on by makes you feel so immersed that you feel your doing something, because as you well know, your not, you cant do anything, your ship cant do anything.  I highly doubt the "view" will be that much of a novelty factor that you will still "ooh/ahh/wow" for very long.

[vaugahn]

except you cant go kill it, you know you cant go kill it, your watching an animated flyby via your jail-cell viewport with that animated skybox, i dont see how watchign stuff move on by makes you feel so immersed that you feel your doing something, because as you well know, your not, you cant do anything, your ship cant do anything.  I highly doubt the "view" will be that much of a novelty factor that you will still "ooh/ahh/wow" for very long.

So do you not understand what the words "for me" mean? You may not feel that way, but that's how I feel. Please, give me one good reason why my opinion is any less valid than yours.

 

Edit: if you want to attack the new UI, be my guest. God knows there's plenty of things to attack there. But that was my personal opinion, and there's nothing you can say that will make me not have that opinion, just like there's nothing I can say that will make you not have your opinion.

Edited July 23, 2014 by vaugahn

[Methanoid]

So do you not understand what the words "for me" mean? You may not feel that way, but that's how I feel. Please, give me one good reason why my opinion is any less valid than yours.

 

Edit: if you want to attack the new UI, be my guest. God knows there's plenty of things to attack there. But that was my personal opinion, and there's nothing you can say that will make me not have that opinion, just like there's nothing I can say that will make you not have your opinion.

 

you forget you also often forget to say "in my opinion" on many of your replies, you also give replies like "its fine" as if giving opinion for all, no different to me or everyone else, so im not alone in that respect, like you even i occasionally remember to add "imho" just not always.

 

also in reply to others on why you (dunno why im saying "you" as loads are doing it not just you) tend to think the UI or ship is fine ive noted too many are throwing around the "immersion" reply a bit too much as a means to justify an opinion, given that i "personally" only care or want immersion in the combat/action side of the game and not in my menus i cant really understand that reason when its mentioned.

 

ive seen you actually expand on "im immersed because........x/y/z" giving reasons why but a hell of a lot dont, they just say "immersion" and never say why, it just sounds like their not even sure themselves but want to attempt to say something complimentary about the ship/ui.

 

also my reply a few posts up narrows down my opinion.

 

New UI, pretty but rubbish functionality

old ui, functions great, looked "ok", nice and quick just not pretty.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Methanoid

[vaugahn]

you forget you also often forget to say "in my opinion" on many of your replies, you also give replies like "its fine" as if giving opinion for all, no different to me or everyone else, so im not alone in that respect, like you even i occasionally remember to add "imho" just not always.

 

also in reply to others on why you (dunno why im saying "you" as loads are doing it not just you) tend to think the UI or ship is fine ive noted too many are throwing around the "immersion" reply a bit too much as a means to justify an opinion, given that i "personally" only care or want immersion in the combat/action side of the game and not in my menus i cant really understand that reason when its mentioned.

 

ive seen you actually expand on "im immersed because........x/y/z" giving reasons why but a hell of a lot dont, they just say "immersion" and never say why, it just sounds like their not even sure themselves but want to attempt to say something complimentary about the ship/ui.

 

also my reply a few posts up narrows down my opinion.

 

New UI, pretty but rubbish functionality

old ui, functions great, looked "ok", nice and quick just not pretty.

 

Ah. Well then, there's your answer. When I have an opinion I make sure to label it as such, and you should too. The ship itself is not the problem with the UI, the problem is menu flow. In the old UI we had menus that worked well with each other and got us to our options in a small number of clicks, our new menus don't do that. I've given a solution for these problems (login options, select which menu you appear at) but every time it's met with something along the lines of "the ship is trash and you should feel bad for liking it". The ship and the menus can work together for an efficient UI, they just aren't doing it right now. Attacking the ship gets us nowhere. 

[Methanoid]

Ah. Well then, there's your answer. When I have an opinion I make sure to label it as such, and you should too. The ship itself is not the problem with the UI, the problem is menu flow. In the old UI we had menus that worked well with each other and got us to our options in a small number of clicks, our new menus don't do that. I've given a solution for these problems (login options, select which menu you appear at) but every time it's met with something along the lines of "the ship is trash and you should feel bad for liking it". The ship and the menus can work together for an efficient UI, they just aren't doing it right now. Attacking the ship gets us nowhere. 

yup UI needs to be more efficient and as your sorted options wise with regards to the ship and like being in it, id just like the option to disable it and see the quick access menus right away, then both sides of the coin are catered too.

[vaugahn]

yup UI needs to be more efficient and as your sorted options wise with regards to the ship and like being in it, id just like the option to disable it and see the quick access menus right away, then both sides of the coin are catered too.

 

In CoD games there's an option to default you to the multiplayer menu, they should just add something here that defaults you to the starchart. 

 

Edit: here's a mock-up of the starchart Kappitalist did

 

 

if you appeared at that on login and after missions it would essentially be the exact same thing as the old UI

Edited July 23, 2014 by vaugahn

[Methanoid]

Except this is a video game. It's not supposed to be an actual map, it's supposed to be the navigation console of a futuristic spaceship.

 

my game name Methanoid is taken from the bad guys from an old Amiga game called Deuteros from early 1990s which happens to be my fave space strategy/resource management game of all time (i still play it today), in that game you could navigate starships (IOS & SCG's) or check mineral deposit analysis via the games solar/star map, i think even the Deuteros starchart is pretty functional even tho it looks pretty basic/fugly, id say its not far off what warframe had only in a flat 2d setup.

 

this is 1 reason im biased towards the old warframe starchart, its similar to what ive used in deuteros, both functional while giving a feel for "the solar system" at the same time.

 

heres a quick dirty youtube clip i made of quickly checking the starchart.

 

EDIT: heres the prequel, Milenium2.2 from 1989, also has a star chart but its a basic crappy looking 3D, again very like warframes starchart, so its all been done before and was functional in that game as well.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Methanoid

[vaugahn]

Sadly I don't think I'd be very interested in those games as resource management has never really appealed to me, but I see what you mean. The old starchart was in dire need of revamping, they just shouldn't have changed the node system.

[iamnuff1]

Unfortunately going off about how the map is bad because it's not from above is a bit of a strawman argument. More pressing problems are the lack of labels, not showing resource drops on mouseover, awkward scrolling, samey planets, and a lack of information at the node level.

 

As I've said many times before, this UI is easily fixable.

 

I was talking about visuals, not function.

 

it's blatantly obvious that "it should actually be made to work, and show the needed infomation to play the game"

 

you don't even need to mention that.

[Methanoid]

the starchart just doesnt feel very starchart'ish now its a pearl necklace of equal sized balls, it doesnt really give much (ill use a word others love using a lot atm) "immersion", if they used something other than wrongly proportioned planets ppl probably wouldnt care, but the old starchart imho and other games that have similar actually had a better sense of the solar system we are apparently a big part of, keeping their visual representation as well as functionality intact.

[vaugahn]

I think the ring of planets gives more "immersion" than the old starchart, as it feels like it's actually the nav console of a spaceship and not a video game menu. Immersion is different for everybody so it's hard to quantify

[Buzkyl]

I think the ring of planets gives more "immersion" than the old starchart, as it feels like it's actually the nav console of a spaceship and not a video game menu. Immersion is different for everybody so it's hard to quantify

 

The planets are fairly hard to distinguish as with other information on them such as player count ect..

 

 

This is a video game first followed by a spaceship. While the map should be designed for a futuristic ship, it should still be in many ways an upgrade from the old one...which it isn't aside from novelty factors.

[vaugahn]

The planets are fairly hard to distinguish as with other information on them such as player count ect..

 

This is a video game first followed by a spaceship. While the map should be designed for a futuristic ship, it should still be in many ways an upgrade from the old one...which it isn't aside from novelty factors.

 

I belive there's a post by [DE]Pablo that says they're working on better labels for the starchart, and they're going to add drops to the tooltips. IMO the ring is slightly easier to use than the old solar system because it's always in the same spot and not as spread out.

[Buzkyl]

I belive there's a post by [DE]Pablo that says they're working on better labels for the starchart, and they're going to add drops to the tooltips. IMO the ring is slightly easier to use than the old solar system because it's always in the same spot and not as spread out.

 

 

But it is much harder to identify individual planets, as the old Chart you can see them based on size and distance from the sun you could even see the Void and derelict were on the furthest edges of the system.

 

Is it ruining my experience? Nope, i'm the same way. But that doesn't mean it doesn't need heavy work.

[vaugahn]

But it is much harder to identify individual planets, as the old Chart you can see them based on size and distance from the sun you could even see the Void and derelict were on the furthest edges of the system.

 

Is it ruining my experience? Nope, i'm the same way. But that doesn't mean it doesn't need heavy work.

 

Well hopefully that work is coming...I seriously doubt DE will just ignore all the feedback here. Personally I'm more concerned with the node map than the starchart, that's where the work should be going.

[Methanoid]

Well hopefully that work is coming...I seriously doubt DE will just ignore all the feedback here. Personally I'm more concerned with the node map than the starchart, that's where the work should be going.

 

well historically all my old fave games have done exactly that and ive just ended up doing what ive been doing here since U11, ive got nothing to do, stuffs not getting better, im still participating in the events for some enjoyment (i really enjoyed the hive/infested one the most so far) but largely ive still got utterly nothing to do and U12/U13/U14 hasnt changed that.

 

The UI for me was a big thing, being user friendly, quick, informative etc as a way to quickly and efficiently get yourself into the games you wanted, now i just stare at the "ship" which has no value or use, dispise smashing ESC all the time to try and bypass it and get infuriated and just log out to play other new stuff on steam (enjoying Robocraft loads and trying NeoTokyo shortly), so just the same as the other games i played for a long time like Eve Online, STO, WOW, etc i just log in, check up on every "update", the only game "enjoyment" from all those games and new warframe ended up just coming from reading the chat window, all the time hoping things will improve, the other games didnt, i keep hoping warframe will but atm its not.

 

My concerns are mostly because ive had nothing to do for so long, we have no endgame, ive got everything that matters leaving only mastery junk thats no use to anyone and serves only to waste my time, the new UI is frustrating and less useful than the old one, i keep seeing familiar posts on "progress" that mirror the other ruined games ive played previous, but most of all, im still 3 major updates in with nothing to do, god only knows how the older players keep themselves amused with no goal in view.

 

Previously i kept logging in out of habbit but with the frustrating UI, it was kinda the last straw, now i cant even be bothered to login at all and only read the update notes now and then.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Methanoid

[SirGarde]

hears one idea just add an option to choose in the menu like

starchart classic

starchart new

or pc gets the classic one and ps4 gets the new one

you dont have to make it suck for us when theres an easy almost no work fix DE

[Sepharoth]

I also liked the old star map. It was easier to see where you could go and where you wanted to go. The new design seems made for the PS4 instead of the pc.