De's (Small) Step Toward Pw-Like Business Strategy

[Liminal]

Kubrow were done this way seemingly to facilitate the breeding thing they were trying to do to make Kubrow actually feel like a living thing rather than some item you can do with as you please. The problem is that it seems incomplete.

I get that, but to me there's a significant problem there.

1- They introduced a factor of unreliability to Kubrow breeding. Does it feel more real? Yes.

2- Does said "realism" detract from player choice? Yes.

3- Can the player do anything to have a choice? Depends, do you feel lucky?

4- Did you get lucky?

       -Yes: great, good for you.

       -No: oops, you just threw away money! Wanna try again?

 

The 4th question has nothing to do with the experience feeling more "real", it only has to do with gambling, and that's precisely the problem with the tamagotchi approach. Going back to the (terrible) pet analogy: I can't go to the casino to see if I can get a Siamese cat instead of a Persian. There's a disconnect between "it feels more authentic" and this gambling mechanic, which makes me think that the only reason DE did this was to get people to spend a lot of plat gambling.

 

And oh boy, do I hate it when a business offers a gamble system.

Edited July 21, 2014 by The_Doc

[Magnagar]

 

Yeah it kinda would. Anything that is onetime purchase but comes with infinite uses is going to screw DE out of a ton of profit and does not encourage repeat buys. A 40p skin is equal to four spins on the scrambler. Please explain how purchasable skins are going to encourage repeat buys. 

 

 

No it wouldn't. If Kubrow skins was an option for a "one time" purchase, people would definitely be more engaged in buying it. The people who donate to DE don't deserve such gambling system because its a turn off to whats worth and what isn't. This doesn't justify "No one says you have to buy it" when clearer this game's funding is mainly through what??? cosmetics. Which in this case is a system without knowing what you are paying is bogus. 

 

 

 

 

You claim that no one is going to use the scrambler that many times, yet there are numerous posts in the kubrow pic thread that prove you wrong.

 

If people didn't keep associating this with PWE this thread would either not exist, or be MUCH smaller.

 

Nothing is proven to me wrong, when clearly those "posts" are complaints of people who have spent platinum and are disappointed in the fact that this is a gambling system. Just to prove how crappy it is.

 

 

 

130ish platinum later and I got:

Almost every scramble was a dull tone of beige, grey or brown. I know I didn't have to spend plat at all, but it is a shame.

I really hope that DE make fur patterns and colors buy-able. Or at least the colors and patterns you scramble, you get to keep and swap around whenever you want. 

I saw a reply DERebecca made about gumballs and... no offense to her, it was a great analogy, but it was not really comparable. You spend $10 on gumballs, you still have $10 worth of gumballs. They don't disappear when you buy another. 

 

^^^ this

 

again Squirmy your logic is invalid. This system needs a better look at and for that to help DE's consumers "the community" with what they want and not what they think they want.  

 

More people would purchases skins when they are guaranteed the promise on what they are paying for, not the other way around.

[grillv20]

Here comes the "casual" argument...

 

whats wrong? casual?

[Shuuro]

DE would also have to make a way for us to either dispose or get free room for our Kubrows. At this point, you can only have 2 before you're out of room. Then you have to pay $$ for more Kubrow slots.

 

I personally still think Breeding with the potential of being able to raise it into what you want would be something enjoyable.

 

Let me interact and feed my Kubrow so it changes bit by bit? Yes? No?

[Aramanth]

Edit: And giving everyone 1500 plat is NOT the way to go, that is a ton of money to be giving away as an apology. Especially when there is no need for such a drastic change.

 

Just an exaggerated example.  You're right though, especially considering what people complain about these days.

 

As for your idea, I had thought of a similar idea by bringing Pokemon breeding into it.  The female determines the breed, the male determines the tertiary traits (fur, color, etc.).  Gender is the only RNG.  That way not only does gender play a big part in what you get, but there's no more randomness to the large amount of plat you just spent on two imprints.  I understand the need to make the kubrow feel more like a living animal instead of an item, but there's about as much realism in this game as there is water in the desert.

[TheStag]

Guys, why can't we just take out the RNG in platinum transactions? Just up the cost of the "scrambler", let the players choose what they want from a set of natural colors/patterns (no crazy junk), and let that be the new system? It removes a flawed system, and adds a great system.

[Nitresco]

whats wrong? casual?

What rings you got, kubrette?

[JerZeyCJ]

Guys, why can't we just take out the RNG in platinum transactions? Just up the cost of the "scrambler", let the players choose what they want from a set of natural colors/patterns (no crazy junk), and let that be the new system? It removes a flawed system, and adds a great system.

This, so much this. This is what most of us who want a change want. To just be able to spend more plat and pick the color and pattern we want.

[Turnoverman]

The real problem is that breeding isn't reasonable. It would be okay to have this if it were possible to actually do selective breeding and get things, that would eliviate the problems people have with it. If the gambling had a legitimate alternative, then whatever. It doesn't. It takes four days of having absolutely no access to your kubrow to have another completely random chance that is absurdly expensive, and you can only have a random chance at maybe keeping the traits of your current kubrow twice.

 

I've made a suggestion that could fix it, and make breeding a viable option for color picking, but, as it stands, saying "You're lazy for not breeding." just isn't fair. It is literally impossible for someone to have purposefullly bred a kubrow by now because at most they could've gotten one breeding pair, which can't even breed with each other. Even if it were possible, why in the world would someone give up their kubrow they spent four days getting for four more days to try and probably fail to get something else?

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/268695-kubrow-breeding-improvements/

[SquirmyBurrito]

I get that, but to me there's a significant problem there.

1- They introduced a factor of unreliability to Kubrow breeding. Does it feel more real? Yes.

2- Does said "realism" detract from player choice? Yes.

3- Can the player do anything to have a choice? Depends, do you feel lucky?

4- Did you get lucky?

       -Yes: great, good for you.

       -No: oops, you just threw away money! Wanna try again?

 

The 4th question has nothing to do with the experience feeling more "real", it only has to do with gambling, and that's precisely the problem with the tamagotchi approach. Going back to the (terrible) pet analogy: I can't go to the casino to see if I can get a Siamese cat instead of a Persian. There's a disconnect between "it feels more authentic" and this gambling mechanic, which makes me think that the only reason DE did this was to get people to spend a lot of plat gambling.

 

And oh boy, do I hate it when a business offers a gamble system.

 

1. They definitely need to work on how kubrow breeding works. The system needs more depth, and breeding needs a massive overhaul in complexity.

2. Yes it does, which SHOULD be where breeding comes into play... but it doesn't lol

3. See #2.

4. See #2 and or my suggestion in all its barebones glory.

 

Just an exaggerated example.  You're right though, especially considering what people complain about these days.

 

As for your idea, I had thought of a similar idea by bringing Pokemon breeding into it.  The female determines the breed, the male determines the tertiary traits (fur, color, etc.).  Gender is the only RNG.  That way not only does gender play a big part in what you get, but there's no more randomness to the large amount of plat you just spent on two imprints.  I understand the need to make the kubrow feel more like a living animal instead of an item, but there's about as much realism in this game as there is water in the desert.

 

I could definitely get behind this idea.

 

Guys, why can't we just take out the RNG in platinum transactions? Just up the cost of the "scrambler", let the players choose what they want from a set of natural colors/patterns (no crazy junk), and let that be the new system? It removes a flawed system, and adds a great system.

 

This systems only flaw is that it seems incomplete/lacks depth. The RNG isn't the issue, the lack of breeding and genetic engineering (something that was advertised as being a big draw of the kubrow system) synergy.

[TheStag]

1. They definitely need to work on how kubrow breeding works. The system needs more depth, and breeding needs a massive overhaul in complexity.

2. Yes it does, which SHOULD be where breeding comes into play... but it doesn't lol

3. See #2.

4. See #2 and or my suggestion in all its barebones glory.

 

 

I could definitely get behind this idea.

 

 

This systems only flaw is that it seems incomplete/lacks depth. The RNG isn't the issue, the lack of breeding and genetic engineering (something that was advertised as being a big draw of the kubrow system) synergy.

Incorrect. The RNG is the complete issue. Paying platinum for a RNG based reward is basically gambling. We don't want that.

[Airwolfen]

Just an exaggerated example.  You're right though, especially considering what people complain about these days.

 

As for your idea, I had thought of a similar idea by bringing Pokemon breeding into it.  The female determines the breed, the male determines the tertiary traits (fur, color, etc.).  Gender is the only RNG.  That way not only does gender play a big part in what you get, but there's no more randomness to the large amount of plat you just spent on two imprints.  I understand the need to make the kubrow feel more like a living animal instead of an item, but there's about as much realism in this game as there is water in the desert.

 

Actually joked about it a bit  in a previous post that current day breeding is a lot more reliable than xxxx years in the future where breading is done with the help of superior tech. Kind of sad if you think about it.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Just an exaggerated example.  You're right though, especially considering what people complain about these days.

 

As for your idea, I had thought of a similar idea by bringing Pokemon breeding into it.  The female determines the breed, the male determines the tertiary traits (fur, color, etc.).  Gender is the only RNG.  That way not only does gender play a big part in what you get, but there's no more randomness to the large amount of plat you just spent on two imprints.  I understand the need to make the kubrow feel more like a living animal instead of an item, but there's about as much realism in this game as there is water in the desert.

Too much predictability makes the system boring.  If you just want a kill bot then just get a sentinel.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Incorrect. The RNG is the complete issue. Paying platinum for a RNG based reward is basically gambling. We don't want that.

 

No it isn't. The issue is that the system (with its randomness) isn't more like Rebecca's gumball example. If we got to keep all the patterns we generated via the scramble and could use any of them whenever we wanted, the system would be a lot better and there would be far less complaints. Add to this a better breeding system and the ability to combine these various patterns for new and interesting results and the problem would be fixed.

[TheStag]

No it isn't. The issue is that the system (with its randomness) isn't more like Rebecca's gumball example. If we got to keep all the patterns we generated via the scramble and could use any of them whenever we wanted, the system would be a lot better and there would be far less complaints. Add to this a better breeding system and the ability to combine these various patterns for new and interesting results and the problem would be fixed.

If we could keep the patters, that would be nice, but what would you do with all the patterns you don't like that you obtain in the process of obtaining the ones you do like?

See? RNG will still screw people over.

[Airwolfen]

Too much predictability makes the system boring.  If you just want a kill bot then just get a sentinel.

 

Breeding is actually... quite predictable. not as much as that. but the current system completely lacks in realistic breeding.

[Airwolfen]

If we could keep the patters, that would be nice, but what would you do with all the patterns you don't like that you obtain in the process of obtaining the ones you do like?

See? RNG will still screw people over.

 

But at the very least it would be a lot better then how you just throw it away with the current system.

[elele]

Actually joked about it a bit  in a previous post that current day breeding is a lot more reliable than xxxx years in the future where breading is done with the help of superior tech. Kind of sad if you think about it.

 

But don't forget it's also in the future after civilization has FALLEN and advanced Orokin tech is LOST. 

[Turnoverman]

Too much predictability makes the system boring.  If you just want a kill bot then just get a sentinel.

 

Too much predictability makes the system boring? What? Do dog breeders get bored when breeding two dachshund together gets them a dachshund? No. Genetics work like that. They are predictable. Not to the degree that Pokemon are, but they aren't completely random.

[brasteir]

I have to wonder if this is all because their current business model just doesn't generate enough revenue. I've run the F2P gamut and I've gotta say that in spite of all the crying about RNG layers, the game actually seems fairly generous especially with plat trading involved.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

I have to wonder if this is all because their current business model just doesn't generate enough revenue. I've run the F2P gamut and I've gotta say that in spite of all the crying about RNG layers, the game actually seems fairly generous especially with plat trading involved.

 

The thing with plat trading is that it's a huge benefit for DE because all plat ultimately comes from them, and as people spend it on cosmetics and slots and potatos and such, they need to acquire more, whether through direct plat purchase or trade - in which case somebody, at one point, had to buy it from DE.

 

Contest plat isn't tradable either, and I don't think plat that's already been traded can be traded again, but I'm not sure about that one.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Too much predictability makes the system boring? What? Do dog breeders get bored when breeding two dachshund together gets them a dachshund? No. Genetics work like that. They are predictable. Not to the degree that Pokemon are, but they aren't completely random.

How many generations in do you think Dachshunds are now? A Gen 4 is going to be much different than a Gen 10,000. That's before you even take into account runts, genetic abnormalities, and recessive genes.

[Aramanth]

How many generations in do you think Dachshunds are now? A Gen 4 is going to be much different than a Gen 10,000. That's before you even take into account runts, genetic abnormalities, and recessive genes.

 

Why are we trying to add realism into a game about space ninjas fighting cloned aliens and robot cultists with rocket launchers and electrified hammers?

[JerZeyCJ]

Too much predictability makes the system boring.  If you just want a kill bot then just get a sentinel.

And completely random results make it annoying and not worth spending money on.

[Airwolfen]

I have to wonder if this is all because their current business model just doesn't generate enough revenue. I've run the F2P gamut and I've gotta say that in spite of all the crying about RNG layers, the game actually seems fairly generous especially with plat trading involved.

 

What really effects most people in this thread is that the 10p randomness with unsure results and even getting the same result/falling back on old results is very unlike DE who generally have a fair business model. stuff may be expensive at times, but are obtainable through normal means. Next to that breeding seems broken and what should give about 90% success with prints is closer to 50% dice roll on each trait.

 

people just feel betrayed more than anything.

 

How many generations in do you think Dachshunds are now? A Gen 4 is going to be much different than a Gen 10,000. That's before you even take into account runts, genetic abnormalities, and recessive genes.

 

as stated by DE. the plates carry the dominant traits. not the recessive ones. And believe me, the current system is not that deep as you hope.