Nekros Buff And Rework Suggestions

[Temfist]

I've been meaning to post one of these for each character, but I have been on the fence about it do to the fact that I'm not sure if DE has any intention of doing a "Powers 2.0" or something, but since the Frost, Trinity and Nova reworks, I've had renewed hope. Therefor, Nekros is the first Warframe on my list that is the most "in need" of a power rework in order to help the character achieve the desired "playstyle" and effective feel he so deserves. Realize that by posting this, I'm not saying I don't like the character, but simply feel that his abilities could be "tweaked" to make him not only more fun, satisfying, and enjoyable, but also function even better in the roles he already excels at, without breaking the game.

 

First, I must state what I feel Nekros, as a playable character, was "meant" to be, versus what he is and does. You can disagree all you want, I don't care, most of you will understand completely what I'm suggesting here. Nekros was advertised and represented as a frame that has "power over the dead", as in, he raises them as zombies. This whole idea was the theme behind his design approach, and was considered to be his strongest role, thus making it his ult. However, Warframes playstyles are not determined by their "Ultimates" but rather, they are determined by the moves they use the most. That said, Nekros is mostly used as a "Utility" character, with the ability to loot dead bodies multiple times with "Desecrate" and his CC weaken move "Terrify". Even if "Shadows of the Dead" was immensely powerful, and easier to use, the rest of his kit would still not help him "feel" like a Necromancer themed character. Soul Punch is just there as a unique alternative to gunplay, but cannot be effectively spammed as a solid means of killing mobs, and is better suited for hitting a strong individual inside a mob, causing the rest of the mob to ragdoll.

 

Shadows of the Dead (Why should it be changed?)- This move, is the theme of the character. Ironically, I don't use it, as I recognize it as a novelty move that is only useful if you don't ever plan on using Terrify as a reliable form of CC, and would rather have the risk of a mob shooting wildly be your only defense. It's biggest problem, is that you must "kill" something, in order to summon it when using "Shadows of the Dead". Nekros doesn't have a lot of alternatives to gunplay, so you will be relying solely on guns and melee if you wish to feed your ult.

 

The game doesn't have any means of keeping track of the dead bodies you collect however, so using this move can feel rather wasteful unless you have been keeping track the whole time, which to be honest, is not fun. The worst part of building up Nekros, is that power strength only effects "how many" shadows you can store and summon at once, rather then the "effectiveness" of summoning them. Considering the game keeps no record, you have no idea what your max limit is until you have thoroughly tested it, which has got to be one of the least accessible ult's I've ever seen in a game (harsh I know). all that said, there are plenty of problems associated with it, and while summoning Shield Ospreys and Ancient Healers is awesome, there is a better way in my opinion, but first we must rework how this move works.

 

Shadows of the Dead Reworked- Automatically summon up to the full amount of unique Shadow Specters, exclusive to Nekros' ult. They are like skeletal Tenno, or ghostly images of excalibur, but whatever they are, they can use a primary weapon (something like a boltor), and melee (likely a sword, but maybe they wield Venka, but possibly they wield unique weapons) and are very aggressive, running headlong into combat, and doing a certain amount of damage. The standard number of shadows summoned would be probably 3, increasing by 3 per rank (up to 12 at max rank) and their damage is effected by power strength, effective line of sight and presence detection effected by power range mods, and their health/shields/duration effected by power duration.

 

These Shadow Specters need to be powerful, this is an ultimate. Make it feel worth using, and very rewarding.

 

(Original quote on next page, addressing a way the "Shadow Specters" could scale other then just being copy cats of the enemy)

 

"Their AI would tell them to follow nearby you, but they would have their own "enemy sense" that detects enemies, as soon as they are able to detect enemies, they "sprint" towards them until within a certain range (and keep sprinting if they don't have line of sight), and then walk towards them while shooting. Once they walk right up to the enemies, they switch to melee, doing CC. They wouldn't need to do a lot of damage because if their gun did something like "auto unique version of puncture and auto bleed proc" with full automatics, that would stack and last longer then normal (possibly effected by power duration/strength mods). If they had a period of invulnerability like with "Snow Globe", they could effectively weaken the enemies damage (by at least 30%) so that the "Shadow Specters" would effectively turn themselves and the rest of your team into bullet sponges, while still dishing out good damage (at least until the enemies can one shot you even with the damage debuff). Then they would get into CC melee range and hold back the mobs with stagger/stun lock. The biggest benefit of the "Shadow Specters" would be that they pull aggro while performing more of a utility role with CC and Debuffs. They might not kill everything by themselves, but that was never Nekros' intended role in combat, Nekros is essentially a utility character with some damage moves and CC."

 

Not too complicated of a fix right lol? Though this may require a new model and such.

 

Soul Punch- I like this move, I really do. That said, it's use and role, do not synergize well with his "theme", to raise the dead. Therefor, I suggest a simple "buff" to it. If Soul Punch kills an enemy unit, it spawns a shadow of that specific enemy, just like the "Shadows of the Dead" would. This allows the player to willing choose which enemies he wishes to "Summon" a clone of. The Shadow Puppets created could have their level altered by Nekros' power strength and the rank of Soul Punch, but that may be overdoing it. Shadow Puppets duration affected by Soul Punch rank and duration mods.

 

All that being said, I think it's fair to say that enemies "Shadowed" by Soul Punch would have some sort of unique buff, to separate them from "generic Shadow Puppets" of which I'm about to discuss.

 

Desecrate Buff(Get Ready For a Mind Blow)- This move, is the only reason people use Nekros. That said, I'm not suggesting it be "changed", but rather, "buffed" to a degree. Desecrate should also summon "Shadows of the Dead". Each time Desecrate Successfully "Loots" a dead body, it also summons a Shadow Puppet of that enemy. This will allow Nekros to feel like he is truly a Necromancer, and does not require him to dish out all the damage to benefit from his ult etc, and still functions as a "guy that makes zombies" while simply being present. It also still loots dead bodies, making him function stronger as a utility character then ever before (summoning additional targets to pull aggro from enemies while also farming more loot, win/win)

 

for all those people who think Desecrate is "too powerful", well, power strength would effect the percentage chance that Desecrate actually "works", per body individually. Therefor, it's chances would be something like 10/15/20/25% chance too loot and spawn a "Shadow Puppet" effected by power strength

 

Nekros limits with reworked powers: Nekros should not be able to have more than 12 Shadow Puppets at a time. This should not be altered by power strength or anything else. These Shadow Puppets are not counted by his Ult, thus, using his skills effectively, you can potentially have 12 Shadow Specters, and 12 Shadow Puppet enemy clones at the same time, 24 enemies per Nekros. This would be under optimal conditions, and would require a Nekros player to constantly do last hits with soul Punch, spamming Desecrate on dead bodies, and using his Ult, which would cost a lot of energy. The energy orbs from desecrate may make Nekros snow ball effectively on defense and survival missions, so that he could sustain himself, which should be a goal for Nekros players. that said, one more power needs to be looked at....

 

Terrify- currently, this is Nekros' life saver move. It should remain so, but the fact that it only works once until cool down, makes it almost a requirement to abuse a maximized Fleeting Expertise mod, and that should not be a requirement to use the move effectively. Therefor, let Terrify have a "Toggle" effect with a visible radial aura (The full radius of Terrify needs to be a little smaller, so that it cannot be used to force enemies all over the map on a defense mission into hiding in the corners of the spawn points).

 

Enemies that step inside or get too close to Nekros run in terror, the duration of their fear effected by power duration. It can still cause enemies to have lower armor, thats fine, but I also feel like they should be slowed for the duration of the fear. Sometimes, I use this move, only to have to chase down the enemy I just used it on, and melee attacks on enemies running in fear, should be easier to do, not harder.

 

Enemies running in fear could be vulnerable to stealth attacks, but thats up to DE. The fear aura would follow you, so if you can use it to effectively run down any enemy into a corner, it would be a fairly efficient way for nekros to effectively protect his team from mobs, while feeling like a total boss.

 

as a way to "nerf" this new Terrify from being too powerful or becoming Infinite CC, Terrify would cost an additional 3 energy a second for each enemy standing within it. This prevents Nekros from using it to chase down every enemy in a level. Also, Nekros could be given an animation that stops his movement and actions when he ends Terrify. This will further encourage Nekros players to "disengage" from combat, rather then abusing Terrify to chase down mobs and assassinate them, but if you have an access amount of energy, you can take advantage of it at your own risk to easily take down enemies fleeing from you.

 

    whelp, there are my open ended suggestions. putting numbers into these ideas will be a big part of testing them out properly, but I feel the concepts alone are much stronger then the current Nekros we have. Feel free to modify or tweak any of these suggestions, but also consider why I have suggested them. I hope that one day, DE will be able to rework a lot of the other Warframes powers, so that each and every warframe has a list of powers that are all equally tempting to take.

 

IMO I should never feel like using a forma to change the polarity of a power slot to a "-" slot is a good investment because some of the powers suck. Thanks for listening!

 

*edit*

 

having played the new Conclaves, all of these power suggestions would still feel pretty good in PvP, but they would need some changes. When Desecrate/Soul Punch is applied to a boss/player enemy, or some other enemy that cannot be "Shadowed", it would instead spawn a "Shadow Specter" like his ult, but Shadow Specters spawned this way do not count against his ultimate, allowing a Nekros in PvP to summon "Shadow Specters" from other players bodies. Also, Desecrate should not pull off additional mods in PvP. HOWEVER, based on changes that may and will occur in how the pvp system works, I'm hoping they add some sort of LoL/DotA2 esk shop, where you earn credits in a match for each kill and objective you take, and can spend those credits on Conclave Mods, so that you don't have to rely entirely on RNG to get the mods you need to help your team win. after I play some more games of the new Conclave system, I'll put in some real suggestions, but the potential awesomeness of conclaves now is utterly mind blowing. MY NEW FAVORITE MOBA GAME (until Battleborn comes out at least)

Edited July 24, 2014 by Temphis

[SYLUX6574]

i don't think he needs buff.

[Max7238]

Actually, I have nothing to say. That's amazing. I think he DOES need a buff. I got him, dumping time and credits into his parts and 100k blueprint, and found him exceedingly lackluster. I'm actually about to trash him for Trinity. With a rework like this, he would actually make me think twice about which I want more, even into late game if built right. An excellent idea.

[Temfist]

i don't think he needs buff.

here is how Nekros feels to me when I play as him right now

 

 

Here is what I think of when I think of a necromancer themed character, and what it would feel like

 

Who would you rather play as? A skeleton that loots dead bodies? or a guy that summons a legion of minions to fight his enemies?

 

I'm not suggesting a super buff here man, just a rework of how he plays/works (but since Nekros is pretty weak and offers no alternative to gun play this may seem like a super buff.....)

Edited July 22, 2014 by Temphis

[Juggale]

Yes, Plox... this is needed. Is he good now, yeah, could he be better with this re-work and play like an actual NECROMANCER?!?! yes

[Moderius]

I've been meaning to post one of these for each character

 

If you think every single Warframe needs a buff and rework, there is something wrong with how you approach design.

[Temfist]

If you think every single Warframe needs a buff and rework, there is something wrong with how you approach design.

well well well mr "I can passively suggest I know more then you about game design over the internet and not have to say anything to validate it". I said that quote in past tense, as in, a while ago, before DE finally decided to do some of the changes they have, I felt that way sure. Obviously DE felt that way too, otherwise they wouldn't be reworking a lot of the frames.

 

now the only reason I said "all the frames" is because yes, in a lot of ways, many of the warframes who are currently considered "good" or "ok" are considered so because of one power....maybe two....but in most cases it's just one (ie, Vauban, Excalibur, Nyx, Nova, Banshee, Frost, Ash and now Mirage....the list goes on really. And while you can argue that people actually "DO" use some of the other powers, the majority of players don't, and rightly so, because in most cases, a lot of the powers a warframe poses are redundant, unneeded, not worth keeping an ability slot for when compared to the usefulness of Corrupted Mods and Quick Thinking etc.)

 

When I come on here to suggest that something needs a change, it's because "I don't find it satisfying". I like to assume I'm not the only one that feels that why, and I take the time to analyze the things I find satisfying and not, so that I can properly communicate them for everyone to see. I've studied game design, participated in Global Game Jam as a team leader, actively designed board games, and work with ITGM peers as an animator and artist as a passion of mine, and yet for some reason I still believe that this game has the potential to exceed every expectation I've ever had for a 3rd person shooter. Why? Because DE actually listens and applies change to the game based on customer feed back, and they have the money and time to invest in it.

 

That said, if you'd humor me, or wait until I at least posted said suggestion about the other warframes before questioning my decision process behind reworking how their powers work, then maybe you'd have the actual opportunity to agree with me or not. Regardless, I have no idea why you posted here without any feedback on my Nekros suggestion other then to belittle my thoughts, so thanks for that I guess :/

 

If you don't agree with me, whatever, to each his own, some people enjoy playing broken games because they find pleasure in abusing mechanics that the other players may not be familiar with, I'm not that kind of player. I want all the warframes to feel good, powerful, and satisfying. Some people may find certain playstyles more satisfying then others, I just want the warframes to fill those roles.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Temphis

[Midas]

I've been meaning to post one of these for each character, but I have been on the fence about it do to the fact that I'm not sure if DE has any intention of doing a "Powers 2.0" or something, but since the Frost, Trinity and Nova reworks, I've had renewed hope. Therefor, Nekros is the first Warframe on my list that is the most "in need" of a power rework in order to help the character achieve the desired "playstyle" and effective feel he so deserves. Realize that by posting this, I'm not saying I don't like the character, but simply feel that his abilities could be "tweaked" to make him not only more fun, satisfying, and enjoyable, but also function even better in the roles he already excels at, without breaking the game.

 

First, I must state what I feel Nekros, as a playable character, was "meant" to be, versus what he is and does. You can disagree all you want, I don't care, most of you will understand completely what I'm suggesting here. Nekros was advertised and represented as a frame that has "power over the dead", as in, he raises them as zombies. This whole idea was the theme behind his design approach, and was considered to be his strongest role, thus making it his ult. However, Warframes playstyles are not determined by their "Ultimates" but rather, they are determined by the moves they use the most. That said, Nekros is mostly used as a "Utility" character, with the ability to loot dead bodies multiple times with "Desecrate" and his CC weaken move "Terrify". Even if "Shadows of the Dead" was immensely powerful, and easier to use, the rest of his kit would still not help him "feel" like a Necromancer themed character. Soul Punch is just there as a unique alternative to gunplay, but cannot be effectively spammed as a solid means of killing mobs, and is better suited for hitting a strong individual inside a mob, causing the rest of the mob to ragdoll.

 

Shadows of the Dead (Why should it be changed?)- This move, is the theme of the character. Ironically, I don't use it, as I recognize it as a novelty move that is only useful if you don't ever plan on using Terrify as a reliable form of CC, and would rather have the risk of a mob shooting wildly be your only defense. It's biggest problem, is that you must "kill" something, in order to summon it when using "Shadows of the Dead". Nekros doesn't have a lot of alternatives to gunplay, so you will be relying solely on guns and melee if you wish to feed your ult.

 

The game doesn't have any means of keeping track of the dead bodies you collect however, so using this move can feel rather wasteful unless you have been keeping track the whole time, which to be honest, is not fun. The worst part of building up Nekros, is that power strength only effects "how many" shadows you can store and summon at once, rather then the "effectiveness" of summoning them. Considering the game keeps no record, you have no idea what your max limit is until you have thoroughly tested it, which has got to be one of the least accessible ult's I've ever seen in a game (harsh I know). all that said, there are plenty of problems associated with it, and while summoning Shield Ospreys and Ancient Healers is awesome, there is a better way in my opinion, but first we must rework how this move works.

 

Shadows of the Dead Reworked- Automatically summon up to the full amount of unique Shadow Specters, exclusive to Nekros' ult. They are like skeletal Tenno, or ghostly images of excalibur, but whatever they are, they can use a primary weapon (something like a boltor), and melee (likely a sword, but maybe they wield Venka, but possibly they wield unique weapons) and are very aggressive, running headlong into combat, and doing a certain amount of damage. The standard number of shadows summoned would be probably 3, increasing by 3 per rank (up to 12 at max rank) and their damage is effected by power strength, effective line of sight and presence detection effected by power range mods, and their health/shields/duration effected by power duration.

 

These Shadow Specters need to be powerful, this is an ultimate. Make it feel worth using, and very rewarding.

 

Not too complicated of a fix right lol? Though this may require a new model and such.

 

Soul Punch- I like this move, I really do. That said, it's use and role, do not synergize well with his "theme", to raise the dead. Therefor, I suggest a simple "buff" to it. If Soul Punch kills an enemy unit, it spawns a shadow of that specific enemy, just like the "Shadows of the Dead" would. This allows the player to willing choose which enemies he wishes to "Summon" a clone of. The Shadow Puppets created could have their level altered by Nekros' power strength and the rank of Soul Punch, but that may be overdoing it. Shadow Puppets duration affected by Soul Punch rank and duration mods.

 

All that being said, I think it's fair to say that enemies "Shadowed" by Soul Punch would have some sort of unique buff, to separate them from "generic Shadow Puppets" of which I'm about to discuss.

 

Desecrate Buff(Get Ready For a Mind Blow)- This move, is the only reason people use Nekros. That said, I'm not suggesting it be "changed", but rather, "buffed" to a degree. Desecrate should also summon "Shadows of the Dead". Each time Desecrate Successfully "Loots" a dead body, it also summons a Shadow Puppet of that enemy. This will allow Nekros to feel like he is truly a Necromancer, and does not require him to dish out all the damage to benefit from his ult etc, and still functions as a "guy that makes zombies" while simply being present. It also still loots dead bodies, making him function stronger as a utility character then ever before (summoning additional targets to pull aggro from enemies while also farming more loot, win/win)

 

for all those people who think Desecrate is "too powerful", well, power strength would effect the percentage chance that Desecrate actually "works", per body individually. Therefor, it's chances would be something like 10/15/20/25% chance too loot and spawn a "Shadow Puppet" effected by power strength

 

Nekros limits with reworked powers: Nekros should not be able to have more than 12 Shadow Puppets at a time. This should not be altered by power strength or anything else. These Shadow Puppets are not counted by his Ult, thus, using his skills effectively, you can potentially have 12 Shadow Specters, and 12 Shadow Puppet enemy clones at the same time, 24 enemies per Nekros. This would be under optimal conditions, and would require a Nekros player to constantly do last hits with soul Punch, spamming Desecrate on dead bodies, and using his Ult, which would cost a lot of energy. The energy orbs from desecrate may make Nekros snow ball effectively on defense and survival missions, so that he could sustain himself, which should be a goal for Nekros players. that said, one more power needs to be looked at....

 

Terrify- currently, this is Nekros' life saver move. It should remain so, but the fact that it only works once until cool down, makes it almost a requirement to abuse a maximized Fleeting Expertise mod, and that should not be a requirement to use the move effectively. Therefor, let Terrify have a "Toggle" effect with a visible radial aura (The full radius of Terrify needs to be a little smaller, so that it cannot be used to force enemies all over the map on a defense mission into hiding in the corners of the spawn points).

 

Enemies that step inside or get too close to Nekros run in terror, the duration of their fear effected by power duration. It can still cause enemies to have lower armor, thats fine, but I also feel like they should be slowed for the duration of the fear. Sometimes, I use this move, only to have to chase down the enemy I just used it on, and melee attacks on enemies running in fear, should be easier to do, not harder.

 

Enemies running in fear could be vulnerable to stealth attacks, but thats up to DE. The fear aura would follow you, so if you can use it to effectively run down any enemy into a corner, it would be a fairly efficient way for nekros to effectively protect his team from mobs, while feeling like a total boss.

 

as a way to "nerf" this new Terrify from being too powerful or becoming Infinite CC, Terrify would cost an additional 3 energy a second for each enemy standing within it. This prevents Nekros from using it to chase down every enemy in a level. Also, Nekros could be given an animation that stops his movement and actions when he ends Terrify. This will further encourage Nekros players to "disengage" from combat, rather then abusing Terrify to chase down mobs and assassinate them, but if you have an access amount of energy, you can take advantage of it at your own risk to easily take down enemies fleeing from you.

 

    whelp, there are my open ended suggestions. putting numbers into these ideas will be a big part of testing them out properly, but I feel the concepts alone are much stronger then the current Nekros we have. Feel free to modify or tweak any of these suggestions, but also consider why I have suggested them. I hope that one day, DE will be able to rework a lot of the other Warframes powers, so that each and every warframe has a list of powers that are all equally tempting to take.

 

IMO I should never feel like using a forma to change the polarity of a power slot to a "-" slot is a good investment because some of the powers suck. Thanks for listening!

 

*edit*

 

having played the new Conclaves, all of these power suggestions would still feel pretty good in PvP, but they would need some changes. When Desecrate/Soul Punch is applied to a boss/player enemy, or some other enemy that cannot be "Shadowed", it would instead spawn a "Shadow Specter" like his ult, but Shadow Specters spawned this way do not count against his ultimate, allowing a Nekros in PvP to summon "Shadow Specters" from other players bodies. Also, Desecrate should not pull off additional mods in PvP. HOWEVER, based on changes that may and will occur in how the pvp system works, I'm hoping they add some sort of LoL/DotA2 esk shop, where you earn credits in a match for each kill and objective you take, and can spend those credits on Conclave Mods, so that you don't have to rely entirely on RNG to get the mods you need to help your team win. after I play some more games of the new Conclave system, I'll put in some real suggestions, but the potential awesomeness of conclaves now is utterly mind blowing. MY NEW FAVORITE MOBA GAME (until Battleborn comes out at least)

Perfect and yes I had to quote it. Why you ask? Because it was so good.

[Moderius]

well well well mr "I can passively suggest I know more then you about game design over the internet and not have to say anything to validate it". I said that quote in past tense, as in, a while ago, before DE finally decided to do some of the changes they have, I felt that way sure. Obviously DE felt that way too, otherwise they wouldn't be reworking a lot of the frames.

 

Okay, I won't say it passively. I know more about game design than you.

 

Let's validate that with some simple observations. Your proposed change to Shadows would be a nerf. Not even touching on the huge mess you proposed that is Desecrate. Shadows of the Dead. It's a nerf. It removes the scaling from the ability and makes it fall off as quickly, if not more so, than other damage-dealing abilities. 

[Temfist]

Okay, I won't say it passively. I know more about game design than you.

 

Let's validate that with some simple observations. Your proposed change to Shadows would be a nerf. Not even touching on the huge mess you proposed that is Desecrate. Shadows of the Dead. It's a nerf. It removes the scaling from the ability and makes it fall off as quickly, if not more so, than other damage-dealing abilities. 

That is still not validating your observations, your just restating them with really vague and broad generalizations, of which the only point you made (Neo "Shadows of the Dead" not scaling) is only an assumption based on the fact that I didn't clarify how the stats of the "Shadow Specters" are determined. (this would have been a good time to input your own ideas on how to improve what I listed. I'm obviously not perfect, and so any "idea/suggestion" I post is gonna need to be "tested", and never would be put in the game as is.)

 

This is a discussion thread, so if you wanted to "validate" your "knowing more then me", you would discuss the "reasons" behind (which includes but is not limited too, also perhaps suggest alternatives to my simple "suggestions" that I intentionally left open ended) your not so humble, non-articulate critique.

 

anyway, if your just gonna come in here to try and belittle me, then I'd like to invite you to please stop. Your more then welcome to offer some actual critique. I suggest using a little more clarity when describing why you feel like one of my suggestions has a problem, so I can at least see where your coming from. It would probably help you out a bit.

 

(lets not derail this thing with anymore pettiness, I apologize if I came off as pompous at all.)

Edited July 24, 2014 by Temphis

[Max7238]

I, at least, can understand why you left a lot ambiguous. Of course submitting your own stats is too much. That SHOULD be up to the devs, who can look at the big picture behind all the numbers and say "This seems fair, now let's release it to the players and see how they break it so we can REALLY make it fair."

I know NOTHING professional about game design. I'm just a 21 year old who's been playing games actively since age 5. I can't tell you, often, technicalities, but I CAN tell you what works and what's fun as a player.

And what's fun? Not Nekros right now. Dumping so much time and money into the Frame, only to have it be so underwhelming, is disheartening. Even as he is, a simple buff to stats and power might make him something I want to keep. But as is, his Shadows are a novelty. A signature skill that looks kinda cool. In an actual pinch, to be useful, you'd need to rush to a downed team mate and punch Terrify AND Shadows, and after the casting animations hope you made it in time to revive them. All just to keep the fire off your squishy behind long enough to even try to rez someone. That's just not fair when Frost can walk up and Snow Globe, Rhino can Stomp, Ash and Loki can turn invisible, Saryn can Molt or ult, Banshee can Silence, and so on. Honestly, aside from Nekros right now, only Mag seems as useless. They're both cool, sure, but they need some serious work before I'll even consider going back to them (I started with Mag, and tried REALLY hard to like her). You've got a great idea here, of course subject to DE's balancing, but even without the numbers, these skills would synergize well enough that any half-decent Nekros would always have minions to draw fire without having to dump two powers just to attempt a revive.

[Seanjuju]

Do you think the name needs a buff?

[Semshol]

Nekros does not need a buff. He is already a very balanced character. I will now demonstrate how to build a proper Nekros:

 

Aura - Energy Siphon (don't go Corrosive)

 

Mods:

 

- Redirection (max)

- Vitality (max)

- Desecrate (max)

- Shadows of the Dead (a.k.a. Edo Tensei)

-  Streamline (max)

- Fleeting Expertise (ranked to -40% duration, thereby giving a total of 70% power efficiency)

- Continuity (max)

- Intensify (max)

- Natural Talent (max)

- Equilibrium/Rage (I prefer Equilibrium ranked to 7)\

 

This particular build allows you to spam Desecrate and your Edo Tensei will get you out of trouble fast with maxed Natural Talent.

 

How to actually play this build:

 

Kill stuff with your weapon, choose something that is strong. I like my Soma because Nekros is not a head-to-head confrontation type of guy.

 

Desecrate bodies, get energy and stuffles.

 

If enemy horde coming at you, TAKE COVER, you'd be surprised how many Warframe players think they are space marines and don't know how to use cover. Summon Shadows, Shadows take aggro and you'll have about 9 to support you. Use the time to recover shields, it should only take 8 - 10 seconds. If enemy has AoE mob, kill that one first (i.e. the Bombard or Napalm or whatever). Let your shadows take aggro first. During last 10 seconds of Edo Tensei, kill enemies and desecrate. All orbs will heal both energy and health allowing you to feed off that immensely.

 

Sundry Explanations:

 

- Why no terrify???? WHYYYYYYY? - You don't need it, your team will handle the CC, even in random groups. Worse comes to worse, you're wasting energy with Terrify. Use your Edo Tensei and make use of cover...don't just stand in the open. Also terrified enemies run, it gets a bit tougher to aim with certain weapons, just my feeling.

 

- Why no Soulpunch???? WHYYYYY? - There is no situation that requires it. Seriously.

 

- Why no maxed Range??? WHYYYY? - After much testing I found that you don't need to Overextend your desecrate just to hit every corpse. You are a looter, but that is not your primary function unless you are playing as 'the Looter' in clan and everyone will protect you like crazy. This doesn't happen so I chose a more functional play-style

 

Bonus Mode - Sacri Nekros:

 

This was a build named after the Sacri Paladin from Ragnarok (it was so long ago I can't remember), how it works is simple. Replace redirection with Rage. This allows you to have endless energy but I don't like this build because it doesn't give me a shield-buffer that I feel Nekros needs.

 

Conclusion:

 

Nekros is fine, no buff or balancing needed, he is an integral part of the team and works as is.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Semshol

[Temfist]

Nekros does not need a buff. He is already a very balanced character. I will now demonstrate how to build a proper Nekros:

 

Aura - Energy Siphon (don't go Corrosive)

 

Mods:

 

- Redirection (max)

- Vitality (max)

- Desecrate (max)

- Shadows of the Dead (a.k.a. Edo Tensei)

-  Streamline (max)

- Fleeting Expertise (ranked to -40% duration, thereby giving a total of 70% power efficiency)

- Continuity (max)

- Intensify (max)

- Natural Talent (max)

- Equilibrium/Rage (I prefer Equilibrium ranked to 7)\

 

This particular build allows you to spam Desecrate and your Edo Tensei will get you out of trouble fast with maxed Natural Talent.

 

How to actually play this build:

 

Kill stuff with your weapon, choose something that is strong. I like my Soma because Nekros is not a head-to-head confrontation type of guy.

 

Desecrate bodies, get energy and stuffles.

 

If enemy horde coming at you, TAKE COVER, you'd be surprised how many Warframe players think they are space marines and don't know how to use cover. Summon Shadows, Shadows take aggro and you'll have about 9 to support you. Use the time to recover shields, it should only take 8 - 10 seconds. If enemy has AoE mob, kill that one first (i.e. the Bombard or Napalm or whatever). Let your shadows take aggro first. During last 10 seconds of Edo Tensei, kill enemies and desecrate. All orbs will heal both energy and health allowing you to feed off that immensely.

 

Sundry Explanations:

 

- Why no terrify???? WHYYYYYYY? - You don't need it, your team will handle the CC, even in random groups. Worse comes to worse, you're wasting energy with Terrify. Use your Edo Tensei and make use of cover...don't just stand in the open. Also terrified enemies run, it gets a bit tougher to aim with certain weapons, just my feeling.

 

- Why no Soulpunch???? WHYYYYY? - There is no situation that requires it. Seriously.

 

- Why no maxed Range??? WHYYYY? - After much testing I found that you don't need to Overextend your desecrate just to hit every corpse. You are a looter, but that is not your primary function unless you are playing as 'the Looter' in clan and everyone will protect you like crazy. This doesn't happen so I chose a more functional play-style

 

Bonus Mode - Sacri Nekros:

 

This was a build named after the Sacri Paladin from Ragnarok (it was so long ago I can't remember), how it works is simple. Replace redirection with Rage. This allows you to have endless energy but I don't like this build because it doesn't give me a shield-buffer that I feel Nekros needs.

 

Conclusion:

 

Nekros is fine, no buff or balancing needed, he is an integral part of the team and works as is.

well, I use a very similar build (never taking Soul Punch or Shadows of the Dead, and instead taking Terrify with a max Fleeting Expertise, since using max Fleeting Expertise on Nekros with a "Shadows of the Dead" as my only means of protection would require me to kill about 7 enemies for only 12 seconds of guys that may not pull aggro fast enough to save me, but to each his own I guess). I remember when Shadows of the dead could do much more enemies at a time, but even then, it's not like I was gonna kill everything with my Nekros when there is a Nova/Ember in the party on a survival. Regardless, I never really had time to kill anything, because I was too busy SPAMMING "3".

 

The whole problem I have with him is that I just feel like he isn't that fun, no matter how much I use him for farming mods, or how much I try different builds (Equilibrium with Max Vitality, Quick Thinking and Rage was interesting, but still has problems, and doesn't really make him any more "fun"), I just can't change the fact that gameplay with him feels extremely mundane. It's not even about the fact that he "sucks" in terms of solo play, it's the fact that he just doesn't "FEEL" like any self respecting "NEKRO"-mancer should feel to me, ya know what I'm saying?

 

Gameplay with him usually devolves into this for me:

Desecrate, Desecrate, Desecrate, run over and pick up some stuff, Desecrate, Desecrate, Desecrate, run over and pick up some stuff, Desecrate, Desecrate, Desecrate, run over and pick up some stuff, Desecrate, Desecrate, Desecrate, run over and pick up some stuff, Desecrate, Desecrate, Desecrate, run over and pick up some stuff, Desecrate, Desecrate, Desecrate, run over and pick up some stuff, and what part of this is interesting or engaging? I feel like a machine; DM: you guys killed the orcs, Player: I loot the bodies, THATS IT, THATS THE WHOLE GAME WITH NEKROS YOU WIN

 

I just want to feel like I'm doing something useful for the team, not a loot farm that needs a few body guards. I dunno, what do you think about him in terms of gameplay? Do you really feel like your being "involved" in the process of helping your team actually accomplish the objective in any mission if it doesn't involve sapping dead bodies for more life support in a survival mission? I SURE DON'T. If I wanna kill something I think "Why would I do that, that's SO AND SO's JOB, BECAUSE THEY AREN'T NEKROS, I AM."

 

As Nekros, it's almost an assumed role, that your sole function in being there is to grab more loot. How is that supposed to make a player feel? It makes me feel like I picked the wrong character unless I'm farming for something. If they add another Character with a farming ability, Nekros might have some real competition. Until that happens, enjoy spamming "3".

Edited July 24, 2014 by Temphis

[TokiZensekai]

 

If you think every single Warframe needs a buff and rework, there is something wrong with how you approach design.

 

 

Okay, I won't say it passively. I know more about game design than you.

 

Let's validate that with some simple observations. Your proposed change to Shadows would be a nerf. Not even touching on the huge mess you proposed that is Desecrate. Shadows of the Dead. It's a nerf. It removes the scaling from the ability and makes it fall off as quickly, if not more so, than other damage-dealing abilities. 

 

No, no you do not know more game design than Temphis.  Your statement has done nothing but raise my hackles straight up into space.

 

And Semshol, you completely misunderstand the point of this thread. It's not a matter of building Necros the "right way", it's the fact that even with all that stuff and making him powerful, he's NOT FUN TO PLAY AS.

 

Anyway, back to my original point with you, Moderius.  If your concept of game design means to force the player to stick with a single function rather than actually making that role actually be what it was meant to be, then you sir have a serious problem and will never amount to anything in a future of designing games.

The idea of Nekros is to actually have a necromancer, a master of the undead, someone who has an army at the helm. But what does he do right now? He makes more items pop up from enemies and summons shadows of fallen enemies that he kills.  If all he is doing is desecrating corpses and not taking any time to kill enemies to raise from the dead, then he's not doing what his intended role was for.

 

This same thing goes to you, Semshol.  By adding Fleeting Expertise, you've reduced the Shadows of the Dead to a mere 12 seconds of time.  That leaves enough time for the shadows to do the 2spooky4u dance and then vanish.  All that makes Nekros is a puppet master putting on a kids show for the enemies to enjoy watching before they start shooting you again.  Once again, this completely defeats the purpose of Nekros's role.

 

The point of this suggestion is not to make Nekros an end-all solution to Warframes and make him beyond powerful, the point was to actually make him FUN, not a button spammer whose sole duty is to farm for your Rare Mods that you've been searching hours for, he is suppose to be a fearsome master over the powers of death and actually control the undead.

 

Next time, properly read the facts before you start running your mouth off and making yourself look like an idiot.

[Semshol]

well, I use a very similar build (never taking Soul Punch or Shadows of the Dead, and instead taking Terrify with a max Fleeting Expertise, since using max Fleeting Expertise on Nekros with a "Shadows of the Dead" as my only means of protection would require me to kill about 7 enemies for only 12 seconds of guys that may not pull aggro fast enough to save me, but to each his own I guess). I remember when Shadows of the dead could do much more enemies at a time, but even then, it's not like I was gonna kill everything with my Nekros when there is a Nova/Ember in the party on a survival. Regardless, I never really had time to kill anything, because I was too busy SPAMMING "3".

 

The whole problem I have with him is that I just feel like he isn't that fun, no matter how much I use him for farming mods, or how much I try different builds (Equilibrium with Max Vitality, Quick Thinking and Rage was interesting, but still has problems, and doesn't really make him any more "fun"), I just can't change the fact that gameplay with him feels extremely mundane. It's not even about the fact that he "sucks" in terms of solo play, it's the fact that he just doesn't "FEEL" like any self respecting "NEKRO"-mancer should feel to me, ya know what I'm saying?

 

Gameplay with him usually devolves into this for me:

Desecrate, Desecrate, Desecrate, run over and pick up some stuff, Desecrate, Desecrate, Desecrate, run over and pick up some stuff, Desecrate, Desecrate, Desecrate, run over and pick up some stuff, Desecrate, Desecrate, Desecrate, run over and pick up some stuff, Desecrate, Desecrate, Desecrate, run over and pick up some stuff, Desecrate, Desecrate, Desecrate, run over and pick up some stuff, and what part of this is interesting or engaging? I feel like a machine; DM: you guys killed the orcs, Player: I loot the bodies, THATS IT, THATS THE WHOLE GAME WITH NEKROS YOU WIN

 

I just want to feel like I'm doing something useful for the team, not a loot farm that needs a few body guards. I dunno, what do you think about him in terms of gameplay? Do you really feel like your being "involved" in the process of helping your team actually accomplish the objective in any mission if it doesn't involve sapping dead bodies for more life support in a survival mission? I SURE DON'T. If I wanna kill something I think "Why would I do that, that's SO AND SO's JOB, BECAUSE THEY AREN'T NEKROS, I AM."

 

As Nekros, it's almost an assumed role, that your sole function in being there is to grab more loot. How is that supposed to make a player feel? It makes me feel like I picked the wrong character unless I'm farming for something. If they add another Character with a farming ability, Nekros might have some real competition. Until that happens, enjoy spamming "3".

 The thing is though, Nekros already has a particular role in the game to which he is well suited. While some players might find this role 'un-fun', I find it incredibly fun.

 

You ARE there to make more loot. You are the only one capable of both supporting the team and becoming a major threat. Shadows and/or terrify (if you prefer that).

 

A party that goes in without Nekros, will often find that they're just not getting enough utility out of the map. No health orbs for emergencies, no extra survival drops. Things actually get stifling, Nekros creates breathing room and I believe that is what he was meant to do.

[Semshol]

 

 

 

 

 

No, no you do not know more game design than Temphis.  Your statement has done nothing but raise my hackles straight up into space.

 

And Semshol, you completely misunderstand the point of this thread. It's not a matter of building Necros the "right way", it's the fact that even with all that stuff and making him powerful, he's NOT FUN TO PLAY AS.

 

Anyway, back to my original point with you, Moderius.  If your concept of game design means to force the player to stick with a single function rather than actually making that role actually be what it was meant to be, then you sir have a serious problem and will never amount to anything in a future of designing games.

The idea of Nekros is to actually have a necromancer, a master of the undead, someone who has an army at the helm. But what does he do right now? He makes more items pop up from enemies and summons shadows of fallen enemies that he kills.  If all he is doing is desecrating corpses and not taking any time to kill enemies to raise from the dead, then he's not doing what his intended role was for.

 

This same thing goes to you, Semshol.  By adding Fleeting Expertise, you've reduced the Shadows of the Dead to a mere 12 seconds of time.  That leaves enough time for the shadows to do the 2spooky4u dance and then vanish.  All that makes Nekros is a puppet master putting on a kids show for the enemies to enjoy watching before they start shooting you again.  Once again, this completely defeats the purpose of Nekros's role.

 

The point of this suggestion is not to make Nekros an end-all solution to Warframes and make him beyond powerful, the point was to actually make him FUN, not a button spammer whose sole duty is to farm for your Rare Mods that you've been searching hours for, he is suppose to be a fearsome master over the powers of death and actually control the undead.

 

Next time, properly read the facts before you start running your mouth off and making yourself look like an idiot.

 

 

I did not shoot my mouth. I back my builds up with proper testing, so let's get serious.

 

Fleeting Ranked to -40% combined with Continuity creates a overall -10% penalty to duration. Your shadows last 27 seconds and do some SERIOUS damage. Why? People forget that shadows scale. As your enemies get more powerful, so too do your shadows. Terrify doesn't scale as well because the armor reduction remains as a %. You can intensify it to a higher level, but the utility is not there without a corrosive projection, which then harms the desecrate spam.

 

Going back to the point about controlling the dead. With 9 Shadows running around, which I have to kill enemies first in order to make, I can safely say that I, and my team, get a nice breathing window of 27 seconds, since, in case you didn't know this fact, the shadows have higher threat as well. In 27 seconds, the team can retreat to a safer room to regenerate shields or just to lick their wounds. The energy consumed using my build ends up at about 15 or so, assuming no one else has Energy Siphon and that is actually pretty decent because you regenerate energy while the shadows are active. So you still have plenty more to do other stuff if need be.

 

I think that you have completely missed the point of Nekros by suggesting that he should be spending his time desecrating stuff. A desecrate cast with natural talent is extremely fast, you can Des. while jumping, you can Des while sliding. Any experienced Nekros knows how to Desc. without missing a beat in firing (key point, it's why I bring my crit. king Soma, you may insert your own weapon of choice). Multi-tasking is an absolute necessity with Nekros. I have no problems mowing down entire hordes with the appropriate weaponry, but T4, because of damage sponge enemies, REQUIRES team effort and that is where each frame starts to be pocketed into their role. You are there to support the team, last hit and turn the souls of the enemies against them.

 

If you can't do this effectively, you are not a Nekros player. If you find your team is killing stuff too fast, take a break, focus on Desecration. The time will come with all weapons are just getting soaked up and that's where you need to turn the enemies loose. Nyx will Chaos, that's always amazing, but you can add some troops to that number so that things go in favour of the Tenno.

 

Again, if you're finding Nekros not fun, it's because you're not playing him right.

[Max7238]

*snip*

See, NOW I see your point. Granted, that means he requires a ton of Forma, but with a build like that and high level enemies, I can see how that would be just as fun as another Frame.

But I still think his focus should shift, a la OPs idea.

[Semshol]

See, NOW I see your point. Granted, that means he requires a ton of Forma, but with a build like that and high level enemies, I can see how that would be just as fun as another Frame.

But I still think his focus should shift, a la OPs idea.

 

I don't mind a shift to a more Necromancery type focus, however the way OP has it, he will have way too many adds at any one point in time and as ANY pro will tell you, not all four abilities need to be viable. A warframe needs 2 good abilities and the rest of the 8 slots need to be geared toward maximization. If Nekros is used the way OP suggests, he will suffer because he won't be able to be maximized like all other frames who only have 2 good powers with 2 rubbish powers and then he will be like Banshee and no one will use him except for mastery.

 

I do not want to see this happen with a frame that I love and adore.

 

Also most frames require about 2 - 3 forma. Nekros needs 3 because he comes without an aura polarity, which is the first thing to forma when re-ranking him.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Semshol

[Mazikeen]

Nekros is almost fine, except in the new Dark Sector Conflicts, where he is far from the top frames.

 

Also, like many, I do not feel a lot the necromancer theme.

 

Here are a few suggestions regarding these matters:

 

 

 

Light tweak

 

Desecrate, when applied on Tennos, could prevent revive (temporary or permanently adjust for balance).

 

 

 

Heavy version

 

First power: Desecrate

Just like current power, but with a small addition: captures the soul of the victims (they become "flies" around Nekros and increases a counter on the Desecrate icon).

Max X (20?) souls, increased by power strength

 

Second power: Haunt

(A merge of Soul Punch and Terrify)

Nekros grabs a soul and sends it to haunt enemies.

Reuse Kunai throwing animation, but throws a skull (skull flies just like Kunai). Upon impact, deals D damages in R meters radius. Damaged enemies cower in terror for T seconds. Terror could reuse the "engulfed in flames" animation from the fire status proc, without flames. (The terror part might do nothing or be just a stun in PvP)

Cost: E energy + X souls

Adjust E, X, D, R and T for balance.

 

Third power: Raise the Deads

Sacrifice some souls to instantly revive fallen tennos in R radius.

Cost: E energy + X souls per tenno

Optionnal (because might be too powerful): if Nekros is down, if he has at least 2 X souls and E energy left, he can use this power during the bleedout to self-revive (death does not means much for a necromancer). Drains all souls to prevent abuses.

Adjust R, E and X for balance. Maybe only revives at a percent of max health (increased by power strength).

 

Fouth power: Shadows of the Deads

Almost like current power.

Channeled.

Cost: E1 energy + E2 energy per second + 1 soul per shadow

Max N shadows, but can be created in several times.

This would just add versatility and mobility for Nekros. It would also allow to create 1 soul for a quick sacrifice, or a full army, depending on the situation.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Mazikeen

[Temfist]

I don't mind a shift to a more Necromancery type focus, however the way OP has it, he will have way too many adds at any one point in time and as ANY pro will tell you, not all four abilities need to be viable. A warframe needs 2 good abilities and the rest of the 8 slots need to be geared toward maximization. If Nekros is used the way OP suggests, he will suffer because he won't be able to be maximized like all other frames who only have 2 good powers with 2 rubbish powers and then he will be like Banshee and no one will use him except for mastery.

 

I do not want to see this happen with a frame that I love and adore.

 

Also most frames require about 2 - 3 forma. Nekros needs 3 because he comes without an aura polarity, which is the first thing to forma when re-ranking him.

hey man, I'm all for different styles of play, and I admire that you find Nekros really fun as he is, I don't want to change that, but do you really think a "good warframe" only needs to have 2 skills that are "worth maximizing"? All I'm trying to do is make "every move" in his kit seem viable. And why shouldn't they?

 

I mean, the way I'm suggesting him, your Desecrate would still work just the same (allbeit needing a power strength build to pump that loot chance up to around 90%, only now every body you loot also summons a "Shadow of the Dead" body you just looted, essentially combining Nekros Desecrate and Ult. If it's "too powerful" then they could simply have the energy drain of the move be effected by how many dead bodies it's effecting, or they could have the "Shadow Puppets" still scale but be a little bit weaker then the original, some testing would sure be required, but I certainly feel like it's doable). I know it takes a bit more effort to press more then 2 buttons, but lets look at every single MOBA out there, 4 powers plus items with activation abilities, so why not have the 4 powers a Warframe can use all be useful in their own right?

 

and besides, how is making his two moves that you currently don't use "worth taking", and making his other two moves "do more" then they currently do, gonna make him "suffer"? just because a lot of the other popular Warframes suffer from the same inbalances, doesn't mean having those inbalances are a requirement for "competence", or am I somehow wrong lol?

 

how about we delve into the Ult deeper that your so fond of, and address some ways that my "Neo" version could be a step in the right direction.

 

old- Requires you to kill enemies to be summoned later, up to seven at a time (16 maximized) Neo - automatically summons 12 unique specters

 

Now I the only difference I see currently, is that the specters  are easier to use, but may not scale to the enemies level. so, how do they work then? I think they would scale if their function was not to just do damage, but was more focused on pulling aggro and causing CC with melee, status debuffs with their guns. Their AI would tell them to follow nearby you, but they would have their own "enemy sense" that detects enemies, as soon as they are able to detect enemies, they "sprint" towards them until within a certain range (and keep sprinting if they don't have line of sight), and then walk towards them while shooting. Once they walk right up to the enemies, they switch to melee, doing CC. They wouldn't need to do a lot of damage because if their gun did something like "auto unique version of puncture and auto bleed proc" with full automatics, that would stack and last longer then normal (possibly effected by power duration/strength mods). If they had a period of invulnerability like with "Snow Globe", they could effectively weaken the enemies damage (by at least 30%) so that the "Shadow Specters" would effectively turn themselves and the rest of your team into bullet sponges, while still dishing out good damage (at least until the enemies can one shot you even with the damage debuff). Then they would get into CC melee range and hold back the mobs with stagger/stun lock. The biggest benefit of the "Shadow Specters" would be that they pull aggro while performing more of a utility role with CC and Debuffs. They might not kill everything by themselves, but that was never Nekros' intended role in combat, Nekros is essentially a utility character with some damage moves and CC.

 

If you don't like the Shadow Specters after that, then what would you do different? have them scale directly with the enemies you are fighting by having them always be at the same level as the enemies (in otherwords, having them not scale at all with Nekros/Player level, and be entirely based on the level in which you use it, cause that is exactly how the current "Shadows of the Dead" works). If you did that, I still think this version is better then the original, as it gives you the fully intended number of "zombies" your trying to summon each time you use it, rather then forcing you to "bring out your dead".

 

If you think Nekros was intended to create "breathing room" in Survival, why not let him do that in other game modes too? That is all I'm trying to do here.

 

Lastly, in terms of PvP and bosses, "Shadow Puppets" would be "Shadow Specters"....instead of nothing...I think that is a huge improvement alone.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Temphis

[Temfist]

 

Nekros is almost fine, except in the new Dark Sector Conflicts, where he is far from the top frames.

 

Also, like many, I do not feel a lot the necromancer theme.

 

Here are a few suggestions regarding these matters:

 

 

 

Light tweak

 

Desecrate, when applied on Tennos, could prevent revive (temporary or permanently adjust for balance).

 

 

 

Heavy version

 

First power: Desecrate

Just like current power, but with a small addition: captures the soul of the victims (they become "flies" around Nekros and increases a counter on the Desecrate icon).

Max X (20?) souls, increased by power strength

 

Second power: Haunt

(A merge of Soul Punch and Terrify)

Nekros grabs a soul and sends it to haunt enemies.

Reuse Kunai throwing animation, but throws a skull (skull flies just like Kunai). Upon impact, deals D damages in R meters radius. Damaged enemies cower in terror for T seconds. Terror could reuse the "engulfed in flames" animation from the fire status proc, without flames. (The terror part might do nothing or be just a stun in PvP)

Cost: E energy + X souls

Adjust E, X, D, R and T for balance.

 

Third power: Raise the Deads

Sacrifice some souls to instantly revive fallen tennos in R radius.

Cost: E energy + X souls per tenno

Optionnal (because might be too powerful): if Nekros is down, if he has at least 2 X souls and E energy left, he can use this power during the bleedout to self-revive (death does not means much for a necromancer). Drains all souls to prevent abuses.

Adjust R, E and X for balance. Maybe only revives at a percent of max health (increased by power strength).

 

Fouth power: Shadows of the Deads

Almost like current power.

Channeled.

Cost: E1 energy + E2 energy per second + 1 soul per shadow

Max N shadows, but can be created in several times.

This would just add versatility and mobility for Nekros. It would also allow to create 1 soul for a quick sacrifice, or a full army, depending on the situation.

 

on Desecrate;

see, I like some of this, but the whole "collecting" souls thing isn't too dissimilar from counting how many enemies you kill, so if they did something like that, It would need some sort of counter in the corner on the UI, as well as having a Cap. That said, I think that might actually feel pretty satisfying and fun, and certainly is a step up from the current Desecrate.

 

The only problems I have with these suggestions are;

 

*Self reviving in a team based game kinda breaks the point of relying on your team. Imagine if in Left4Dead you could free yourself from a "Smoker" after being caught. Kinda eliminates the threat. That said, their could be an increased bleedout duration buff from it, but I don't think self revive would work, especially in PvP.

 

*I think the force bleedout skill is kinda cool, except that it might completely undermine any mods that people use to prolong and enhance their situation during Bleedout, so that would need some tweaking, and shooting people while they are down is still a totally viable option for taking out a Bleeding Out Tenno, so I don't think it needs it.

 

*Also, while I REALLY LIKE the idea of total "Power Kit Synergy", the way Warframe works currently needs to make a move viable on it's own, so if Soul Collecting is only achievable through Desecrate, and all his other moves require it, that is sort of dictating to the player that they must "at least use Desecrate" in order to enjoy the rest of Nekros' kit.

 

 

 

 

Now, this is where if DE decided to do "passive abilities", that come automatically with the Warframes could benefit your idea greatly. If Nekros was like Thresh from LoL, 

where he can see the souls of enemies floating over their corpse for a brief time, he would then not "require" desecrate to function. Then the added benefit of "Desecrate" could be that it "sucks them all in". (just like how Thresh can use his lantern too suck in Souls)

 

 

if you could have a passive ability like that on Nekros, I think with some tuning, you've got yourself another viable option for how Nekros could work with a rework (though I'm not sure which would be more work for DE now). I wouldn't mind every Warframe gaining some unique passive. Ember is immune to fire damage and cannot catch fire, Frost is immune to ice damage and cannot be "slowed down". Saryn is immune to poison, corrosive and gas damage(OP?) I dunno, but it would be a nice touch. Increasing their resistance further would allow them to "Heal" HP from that damage type?.....ok now this is just getting insane....or is it?

Edited July 24, 2014 by Temphis

[Kaokasalis]

I agree with you OP. I dont like playing Nekros most times as people simply just want desecrate spammer for more loot. If DE take some of these changes to Heart it would make nekros alot more fun to play.

[Zeitzbach]

Current Shadow of the Dead is already good. It's a skill that require you to actually PLAY the game and keep track of stuffs. A quick shooting on the Shield osprey and a couple heavy or some ancients will make the skill extremely powerful. The suggested one might make it somewhat reliable but also completely guts its potential to become really strong when played right.

 

I don't get why people say he's "Not fun to play". He's FUN to play for me alright. Why? Because unlike other frames, you rely more on your actual gun play and acrobat skill. Beside the Desecrate bot, Nekros is without a doubt on the lists of "Advanced frame" with a rather high skill floor to work right. The only reason people will consider him boring to play is because they're in a team situation where Nekros Kit was NOT designed to wipe the whole map instantly. Instead, he's more of a survivalist support that can also solo contents with ease as long as you know what you're doing as he will have both the loot from desecrate and fire or defensive power based on how you use SotD.

[Charismo]

Your suggestion for Shadows of the Dead removes the scaling. It would completely remove it from use in high level play. It's a bad idea, and I can't take your post seriously because of it. It shows a lack of consideration for what actually works with Nekros currently, and what really needs to be worked on.

 

Killing enemies isn't the issue, it's what you can do with your shadows after summoning. Their spread over an area is too unfocused, and doesn't support mobility in a game that relies on it. A simple fix would be for shadows to follow you when not immediately engaged with an enemy. This should not be a problem to implement, as you can see that friendly AI in invasion missions already do this. 

 

Leave Desecrate as it is. I have issues with RNG based abilities, but I really doubt Scott will ever consider feedback on that ability, so why argue. Rolling a weaker version of SotD into it isn't going to help reduce the time spent casting it either, if not make it worse.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Charismo