Oh Crap, Ran Out Of Ammo

[Krymanol]

Well I've been away from the game for a while (been playing marvel heroes..hey I love my marvel comics :D). Anyway, like I always do, I just updated the game, hopped in void for some quick solo play. One thing I like to do is grab nekros with penta and desecrate and solo T3 for about 35 minutes. It's always been much fun to do that especially when I've been away for a week or two.

So I'm running along and suddenly I auto-switch to pistol. I didn't hit the F key...so I switch back and I have no penta ammo...WTF!

Well I went back and read recent patch notes and my jaw dropped.

So don't get me wrong, 500+ ammo was always way too much for launcher weapons, I agree....but 20 max ammo is a major insult. I knew they would get reduces sooner or later, but not by nearly 95% reduction...WOW!

Anyway, I'm not complaining about the change, I'm just shocked at how huge the negative impact on the launcher weapons this is. I literally ran around for a few minutes in T3 survival with no ammo drops for the penta. I had to use consumables just to get ammo. Now I'm feeling that my only alternative is to remove a damage mod (about a 2,000 base damage loss) and equip ammo mutation...because desecrate wasn't making a difference and sniper ammo still is the rarest of drops of anything in the game.

I say 40 to 50 max ammo is a nice spot for launchers to be at and make all ammo drops have equal chance to drop. Sniper ammo shouldn't be rarer than rifle or pistol ammo...I don't see a good reason it should be that way anyway.

Overall, when you have a weapon that runs out of ammo in less than 1 minute into a survival mission, even if that weapon did 5 million damage per shot and had an AOE radius that covered 60 meters, it would still be a totally useless weapon because no ammo means no damage. It's not like high rate of fire weapons that run out of ammo fast. Those you can burst fire and manage ammo. You can't manage launcher's in anyway. It's one shot, kills all...but if you have no ammo, you are forced to go to your secondary or melee or powers. That's a restriction I thought this game would never impose on players.

One of the things I loved most about this game that set it apart from any other game was the freedom to play it anyway you like. If you wanted to use the same gun for 8,000 hours straight, you could do that and still play and succeed at any mission type. DE didn't force builds or weapons or frames on us..but with all the changes in the past 6 months or so, it's starting to feel like they are forcing us into distinct builds and ways of playing. Forcing me to use a mod I don't want in order to make a weapon useful is not the way to go. So I am disappointed at the ammo change, not just for launchers but for every weapon. I'm still trying to figure out why some weapons got nothing but buffs and others got nothing but nerfs.

Again, much needed change DE, but you just went too far on the ammo pool reduction. If this is final, can you at least double the clip size of launchers then...because low ammo pool, small clip size, long reload, travel time on projectile, dumbfire/no hitscan, forced use of ammo mutation mods (or forma) is just way too much negatives for any weapon.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Krymanol

[aleco247]

Yea it's a bummer, I think a ammo mutation mod at its lowest level would be fine tho.

Edited August 21, 2014 by aleco247

[DarkLordX2]

After some days, you won't see the difference.

[PeanutMonster]

It's 2 pickups to restore all your ammo, there are hundreds of them on the ground after 15 minutes of survival. You can also use the ammo restores that can be built in foundry.

[Llyssa]

In rail conflicts, it effectively negates carrying them at all. WAY too low.

[TheFapman69]

The launcher ammo nerf was needed since everyone would just spam grenades/rockets and never switch to their other weapons. Though I do admit 20 is a bit low, I can still make it work. Just use it for big groups or bosses and use your pistol or whatever you have as your sidearm until than. My Penta is only forma'd and I never run out on it even without a ammo mod. If I can do it, anyone else can. Just takes that change of use.

[Krymanol]

Believe me, when I run out of ammo in less than a minute, I'll always see the difference. Again, ammo mutation mod might be a fix for now, but I'm still losing almost 2000 damage by taking off the damage mod and putting the mutation mod on. So I am definitely gonna miss that extra damage no matter what.

[[DE]Momaw]

On the other hand, you're dealing with a weapon that has the power to not only one-shot enemies but one-shot crowds of enemies. I think the intent is make you a little more judicious about when you use a "heavy weapon". If you go around reducing single enemies to a pile of gore with a grenade to the face, then yeah, you're going to have ammo problems. But that is not the intended tactical use for a grenade launcher.

[-Himari-]

Moved to proper section.

[Lord.Finster]

The benefits of launchers clearly still outweigh the drawbacks.

Now, however, you need to pick your shots wisely instead of simply spamming AoE, unless you play defense.

Launchers still work as you are used to in defense missions where large groups of enemies are abundant.

They work less well in survival however and are even less useful in other mission types.

They are now clearly niche weapons and need the company of a good sidearm.

[ZscCannon]

I soloed the whole arctic eximus event with my penta and I was always good for ammo. However, survival missions will last a long time and because of that the ammo will be a problem. I have seen people stay in an ODD mission for around 30 waves with a penta and they were fine. Yes the nerf was huge, but the weapon is still a great one.

[Seanjuju]

The benefits of launchers clearly still outweigh the drawbacks.

Now, however, you need to pick your shots wisely instead of simply spamming AoE, unless you play defense.

Launchers still work as you are used to in defense missions where large groups of enemies are abundant.

They work less well in survival however and are even less useful in other mission types.

They are now clearly niche weapons and need the company of a good sidearm.

Not really. Clearly the drawbacks are too much of a hassle. Since when are there niche primaries? Self Damage already restricts movement and then there's forced movement very often. It's not a matter of picking your shots wisely. Your secondary becomes your primary. These weapons are good but not that good. 

[SquirmyBurrito]

After some days, you won't see the difference.

 

HAHAHAHAHA no. I still see the difference. Maybe that's because I refuse to give in to the idea of ammo mutation mods being a required mod for launchers.

 

It's 2 pickups to restore all your ammo, there are hundreds of them on the ground after 15 minutes of survival. You can also use the ammo restores that can be built in foundry.

 

Ammo restores are a huge waste of resources as they put out more potential ammo than you can possible use in the first pulse and continue to do so for ~7 seconds. 2 pickups to restore all your ammo isn't a positive, especially not when that ammo type is rare.

 

The benefits of launchers clearly still outweigh the drawbacks.

Now, however, you need to pick your shots wisely instead of simply spamming AoE, unless you play defense.

Launchers still work as you are used to in defense missions where large groups of enemies are abundant.

They work less well in survival however and are even less useful in other mission types.

They are now clearly niche weapons and need the company of a good sidearm.

 

Those benefits don't do you any good once you're out of ammo.

Edited August 21, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito

[Llyssa]

I'd be more okay with it if launchers ACTUALLY 1-hit killed. Take some to a rail conflict, see how many shots you need to make 1 kill.

 

Take some to t4. See how many shots you need to make 1 kill.

 

The damage on launchers is FAR too low to justify a 20 max, sniper pool scenario. They either need more ammo, or more damage. Either would alleviate the issue, but as-is, they're exceedingly underpowered.

[PeanutMonster]

Ammo restores are a huge waste of resources as they put out more potential ammo than you can possible use in the first pulse and continue to do so for ~7 seconds. 2 pickups to restore all your ammo isn't a positive, especially not when that ammo type is rare.

 

Oh they sure are rare if there are hundreds of them on the ground.

[Dasmir]

Ammo mutation mod.

[Soulphoenix1]

Well I've been away from the game for a while (been playing marvel heroes..hey I love my marvel comics :D). Anyway, like I always do, I just updated the game, hopped in void for some quick solo play. One thing I like to do is grab nekros with penta and desecrate and solo T3 for about 35 minutes. It's always been much fun to do that especially when I've been away for a week or two.

So I'm running along and suddenly I auto-switch to pistol. I didn't hit the F key...so I switch back and I have no penta ammo...WTF!

Well I went back and read recent patch notes and my jaw dropped.

So don't get me wrong, 500+ ammo was always way too much for launcher weapons, I agree....but 20 max ammo is a major insult. I knew they would get reduces sooner or later, but not by nearly 95% reduction...WOW!

Anyway, I'm not complaining about the change, I'm just shocked at how huge the negative impact on the launcher weapons this is. I literally ran around for a few minutes in T3 survival with no ammo drops for the penta. I had to use consumables just to get ammo. Now I'm feeling that my only alternative is to remove a damage mod (about a 2,000 base damage loss) and equip ammo mutation...because desecrate wasn't making a difference and sniper ammo still is the rarest of drops of anything in the game.

I say 40 to 50 max ammo is a nice spot for launchers to be at and make all ammo drops have equal chance to drop. Sniper ammo shouldn't be rarer than rifle or pistol ammo...I don't see a good reason it should be that way anyway.

 

Weird enough, clip size for the Penta is awfully high. With mine's having over 560 ammo max with other ammo mixed cards. I can outlast 1.4 hours in a T1-T4 Survival.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Oh they sure are rare if there are hundreds of them on the ground.

 

The exaggeration is real.

[PeanutMonster]

The exaggeration is real.

 

Nope.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Nope.

 

I see your nope and raise you one yep.

[vaugahn]

I see your nope and raise you one yep.

 

It honestly depends on the mission type. If you're playing defense, you will never run out of ammo. Ever. 

[SquirmyBurrito]

It honestly depends on the mission type. If you're playing defense, you will never run out of ammo. Ever. 

 

Defense is hardly the only game type in this game and it, survival, and mobile defense are not the mission types that ammo conservation should be balanced around. Oh and, I have actually run out of ammo during a defense mission. I used to run out on Sechura all the time back when it was free. This was with my Boltor Prime by the way. The Ogris, Torid, and Angstrum are basically the same, only difference being they run out faster and consistently (pretty sure the BP running out of ammo was just the fault of me wasting shots since the blue affinity light thing makes it so I can't see **** after I start killing things). 

Edited August 22, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito

[SoulEchelon]

Meh, I soloed Sechura with a Penta and Angstrum this weekend till wave 10. Went with a group till 20. Neither are forma'd; just max ranked and potato'd. I had ZERO problems with ammo, and no, I didn't use ammo mutation.

 

Also, this:

 

http://youtu.be/ag51TyL8wAs

http://youtu.be/ag51TyL8wAs

 

Skip to 1:22 til 2:30 (Though frankly I'd watch the whole vid. Dude has an epic Penta build) and listen to what he says. It's not as big of a "nerf" as people seem to be raging about. Only those that absolutely refuse to stop spamming their explosives are the ones who are crying the loudest. It's time to adapt, people. Your Penta/Ogris/Angstrum is still insanely powerful. But now you have to use your power in moderation.

Edited August 22, 2014 by SoulEchelon

[SquirmyBurrito]

But now you have to use your power in moderation.

 

This is my entire problem with this change. Why are launcher users forced to moderate their spammy tendencies but Boltor Prime users, Soma users, etc can spam all they want? Guess I should also mention that once your grenade/rockets stop oneshotting enemies, you start to feel the pressure even more. 

Edited August 22, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito

[Pro3Display]

i already said that and i say it again:

ammo mutation is a band-aid made of salt

Edited August 22, 2014 by Pro3Display