So.... As The Tenno We Are Actually Terrorists?

[ravend]

There is something interesting to your post that I can't quite describe.

 

For one thing having your information posted isn't terrorism.  It may be an invasion of your privacy, but as terrorism it's not meant as an act to spread terror.  There is something called "cyber terrorism" but what you describe doesn't fall under that category either.  You could have much stronger arguments, but none of what you are saying, sadly, holds water.

 

When you go to war you go to war.  But if the Tenno were at war why aren't grineer ships finding, and blowing up Tenno guild halls?  The type of fighting going on isn't really a war.  If you consider the fighting that went on after the US held and occupied Iraq a war I'd honestly be quite shocked.  That is why people called it a "war on terror" and not a straight up war.  Because there was no war.  The war was won.  The US rolled into Iraq and held it.  What came next were acts of "terrorism," and that is why we were then fighting a "war on terrorism."

 

My point is you don't know if you are killing civies or not.  In a merchant ship they must all be members of the military?  Corpus are traders and merchants.  Blowing up a ship and thinking they are all evil is a core idea behind indoctrination.  Getting to think they are all bad is certainly a great idea to never have to think of the consequences of your actions.  Are families on that ship?  Do Corpus raise generations of progeny as space traders on a ship?  Where are the children?  They would of course never be submitted to combat, but to think a military base (or trading base) never has children on them is fairly silly.  The grineer are all clones so it's easy to think that they might just step out of a capsule as a warrior, but are the Corpus the same way?

 

 

Actually if you listen to the grineer in the background of your ship, you will hear them say to kill all tenno and tenno sympathizers. Now the guild halls are cloaked just like the ships are.  Corpus are cold business men that will do everything and anything in there way to create weapons. now its crew there crewmen arent in armour, but they have shields that take place of armour. second they have armed robots and droids in there ships as soilders. Everyone we kill is armed and fully capable of killing tenno at any given moment. I for one would like to know WHO we are working for and i dont mean the lotus. who contacts her for a hit to be made on a boss on a planet. While i dont see the tenno as terrorists, i see them more as merc's. Keep in mind that ninjas in japan did the same thing we are in this game (minus the powers.....i think).

 

But the level of thinking is like saying the rebels in star wars were terrorists. They had a good reason to do what they did, earily on they raided ships and military complexes. later on they fought huge scale battles that killed millions and even lost a planet before it all ended with them gaining control. To the empire they were the terrorists and evil bad people. The same lines can be drawn between the tenno and the rebels. neither of them have destroyed innocent lives to gain what they want, Those they fought did. Raiding, fighting, disinformation, rescuing and assassating are all part of war. in this war there are 4 sides all trying to get control of the same area.

[Masterofm]

As of right now, this thread teeters on the precipice of semantics ...

 

While generally it is the prerogative - and responsibility - of the person who initiates/instigates discussion to provide definitions of essential terms, for purposes of continuing productive discussion, consider the following:

 

Definition:  Terrorism - the use of violence or acts dangerous to life as well as threats of intimidation or coercion for political aims, including as a method of governing as well as resistance to a regime

 

This can include violent or dangerous acts which violate federal or state law, attempts to sway governmental policy through such acts as mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/terrorism/terrorism-definition)

 

To summarize the thread author's position:

1. The Tenno are a blank slate who willingly submit to the authority of The Lotus

2. While The Lotus' stated aims are to provide balance - which is inherently a political aim - her true nature and therefore her real purpose are both unknown

 

That said, the thread author has used the term "terrorist" correctly in broad terms ...

 

See the problem that I had with the definition itself is it is twisted and warped.  While the platform of terrorism itself to me feels more like a pedagogical miss mash of contradictions at times, for how it is used, I was mainly trying to mainly tackle the broad strokes of the term and the fact that quite a few of the actions the Tenno easily fall under terrorist actions.

 

That said, the thread author has used the term "terrorist" correctly in broad terms ...

The big "What IF?" concerns The Lotus' true intentions

 

In THAT regard, I do not think that there is sufficiently strong case to be made that she is an anti-biologic hate-monger purposed to wipe out organic sentient life

The most compelling contradictory evidence is found in Mirage's Codex - unless you also stipulate that The Lotus is insane as she has self-contradictory sentiments

 

The point that the thread author makes that I find so intriguing is the uncritical acceptance that The Lotus is good

Even though she aids you in innumerable ways, that does not lift the possibility of her having other than totally benign intentions

 

After all, the Tenno were MADE to save the Orokin but in the end destroyed them

How mixed up is that for a start on life?

 

It is natural to assume in an RPG that you are either "the good guy" or "the bad guy" and stay within those restrictive labels for the entire game

In my opinion what the thread author is REALLY challenging is our perception of ourselves

 

How would you feel after doing everything asked of you that you then asked to do the unimaginable?

Would then conscience stir?

Or would it be business as usual?

 

You have been able to say better then I have in this post so +1 for you.  The whole thing is we just take it all as gospel.  The idea that what we do is right.  That we forget to question our actions.

 

I had a moment a few weeks ago where I shot off a helmet of a corpus and realized they are humans in space suits (generally I was too busy shooting my next target to really look but this one happened to die right up on my screen and just kind of stand there in a stance of utter shock and disbelief at his own death.)  Then I went on to further postulate what I was really doing.  They have high shields as a means of protection but no real armor to speak of.  They are actually fairly dinky once you get around the shields.

 

I did some lore digging and did a double take when I realized that these people were merchants.  I'll be it seemingly corrupt merchants, but when you think of a corporation not everyone who say works for EA is a bad person.  If one was to blow up their HQ or hijack a shipment of server parts you would be harming a lot of innocent people's lives and well being.

 

Then what made me sit back and contemplate about the Lotus was she acts and feels in weird ways.  Not everything she tells me makes sense, or seems particularly relevant sometimes.  But in the end she nudges me towards the objective and warns me (sometimes incorrectly) when an incoming threat is arriving.  But overall as an AI it feels more like it's trying to be a person, and a person has flaws and problems.  And the Lotus certainly in game can have them in spades.  Trying her best to achieve a goal that no one really knows about.  Is it doing bad with good intentions?  Is it trying to do good with bad intentions?  Trying to wipe out all life is certainly a stretch, but really we have no idea of her true intentions, nor do we know how sane she is.  Many books and movies generally have the best AI as the one that seems normal.... right up until it starts killing people.  Sure there are some small cracks in it's behavior but most tend to just write it off as some AI eccentricity.  Then some form of weird twisted logic tends to go on and suddenly everything goes to hell.  And as a character the Lotus seems to fit the bill for this.

 

I then went on to think about the events that the Tenno do.  Each and every threat squashed seems to open another can of worms.  Our own actions pushing both corpus and grineer to do even more desperate acts to try and combat the Tenno.  It is a compelling conundrum to really take a look at the game I'm playing and to wonder if I am swimming in a shallow kiddy pool or just forgetting that there is something deeper and far more sinister clouded by my inability to pay attention.

 

But in the end the information flows from one source.  And in the end should we not question it?

Edited September 1, 2014 by Masterofm

[DecapitatingJim]

I'm just a mercenary. Don't give a crap about other peoples agenda or goals, pay me and I'll gladly blow S#&$ up for you. The only reason I work for Lotus is because she pays pretty well. 

 

As far as the terrorism thing goes, I would have to say no. We're more a guerrilla faction than a terrorist faction. We're openly fighting against other armies, but using Guerrilla tactics to do so. Some of the stuff we do is pretty terroristy I guess, but we're technically doing it in a war environment, so it's more sabotage and espionage than actual terrorism. 

 

We're not good though. None of the factions are good in this game. We're just a bit less evil than the other competitors. 

 

 

 

When you go to war you go to war.  But if the Tenno were at war why aren't grineer ships finding, and blowing up Tenno guild halls?  

 

My point is you don't know if you are killing civies or not.  In a merchant ship they must all be members of the military?  Corpus are traders and merchants.  Blowing up a ship and thinking they are all evil is a core idea behind indoctrination.  Getting to think they are all bad is certainly a great idea to never have to think of the consequences of your actions.  Are families on that ship?  Do Corpus raise generations of progeny as space traders on a ship?  Where are the children?  They would of course never be submitted to combat, but to think a military base (or trading base) never has children on them is fairly silly.  The grineer are all clones so it's easy to think that they might just step out of a capsule as a warrior, but are the Corpus the same way?

 

I just want to point out that our Dojos are on the edge of the void, and the Grineer seem to struggle to actively go into the void. We've also got some pretty insane stealth technology, which so far none of the factions seem to be able to counter, or even know about. We seem to have control over the Void, and most of the other factions barely know what the Void is. Let alone counter a faction that is using some weird unknown entity to shield themselves. 

 

The Grineer and Corpus are too busy fighting with each other to bother with the Tenno at the moment. We're more a thorn in their sides than an actual threat. If they decided to take us head on, I would imagine we would end up in a lot of trouble. 

 

The Corpus thing I will give you. The board of the Corpus are pretty morally ambiguous, but most of the guys we kill just seem like engineers and general crewmen who were in a bad place at a bad time.

 

Also this, very good points here

 

Actually if you listen to the grineer in the background of your ship, you will hear them say to kill all tenno and tenno sympathizers. Now the guild halls are cloaked just like the ships are.  Corpus are cold business men that will do everything and anything in there way to create weapons. now its crew there crewmen arent in armour, but they have shields that take place of armour. second they have armed robots and droids in there ships as soilders. Everyone we kill is armed and fully capable of killing tenno at any given moment. I for one would like to know WHO we are working for and i dont mean the lotus. who contacts her for a hit to be made on a boss on a planet. While i dont see the tenno as terrorists, i see them more as merc's. Keep in mind that ninjas in japan did the same thing we are in this game (minus the powers.....i think).

 

But the level of thinking is like saying the rebels in star wars were terrorists. They had a good reason to do what they did, earily on they raided ships and military complexes. later on they fought huge scale battles that killed millions and even lost a planet before it all ended with them gaining control. To the empire they were the terrorists and evil bad people. The same lines can be drawn between the tenno and the rebels. neither of them have destroyed innocent lives to gain what they want, Those they fought did. Raiding, fighting, disinformation, rescuing and assassating are all part of war. in this war there are 4 sides all trying to get control of the same area.

 

Edited September 1, 2014 by DecapitatingJim

[-Vondred-]

If the enemy also has weapons, then we are not terrorists.

[ElHefe]

(edited for clarity of response)

 

1. I had a moment a few weeks ago where I shot off a helmet of a corpus and realized they are humans

 

2. I did some lore digging and did a double take when I realized that these people were merchants.  I'll be it seemingly corrupt merchants,

 

3. Trying her best to achieve a goal that no one really knows about.  Is it doing bad with good intentions?  Is it trying to do good with bad intentions?

 

4. I then went on to think about the events that the Tenno do.  Each and every threat squashed seems to open another can of worms.  Our own actions pushing both corpus and grineer to do even more desperate acts to try and combat the Tenno.

 

 

Regarding your first point, a Tibetan monk might say:  "Congratulations, you have shown yourself to be human"

One of the aspects of action video games is that desensitization is ubiquitous and necessary ...

Whether you are on the side of right - say Master Chief to save the human race - or not  - say Niko Bellic who just wants a piece of the American pie - it doesn't matter

You kill and kill again

One of the more interesting achievements in Fallout 3 was to complete the game without killing anyone, but that was a game that strove to make actions bear consequences (at least in an arbitrary moralistic way)

 

And consequences is the gist of your thread ...

 

Secondly, throughout history merchants have gotten a bad rap ...

At the time of Buddha in ancient India, merchants were near the bottom as they were in many Western and Middle Eastern societies, even though they were essential for raising the bar of the quality of life for those same societies

 

You phrase your third point in a really elegant manner ... its all about the ambiguity of pragmatism

Pragmatism is singularly the most successful philosophical concept of all time, but to those guided by principle - it is confusing at best and abhorrent at the extreme

In the end, it's all about how the ends justify the means - which certainly is true in the case of The Lotus

 

Lastly, you bring consequence to the forefront once more ...

Reminds me of one of the best scenes in Tron Legacy where the very Zen Flynt the father tells his very reactionary son that the only way to win is not to play and how much can be accomplished by doing nothing

This is the lesson of human history - unintended consequences of well intended actions

 

In the end, gamers fall into two types:

1. Play and play again

2. Think, play and think again

 

In my opinion the highest purpose of gaming is to be able to do BOTH

 

[ElHefe]

If the enemy also has weapons, then we are not terrorists.

 

If that statement is true then there is no such thing as terrorism at all ...

There is nothing in the definition that has to do with an unarmed civilian populace

The assassination of a well protected world leader for political reasons is by definition terrorism

 

What you are speaking to is the degree of how heinous, morally reprehensible an act of violence - or terrorism - is when perpetrated upon the defenseless

For example, bombing an elementary school or a hospital is uglier than bombing a naval shipping yard

 

 

 

[Corvid]

Vondredd, on 01 Sept 2014 - 08:17 AM, said:

If the enemy also has weapons, then we are not terrorists.

 

So... would bombing an average southern-US neighbourhood be terrorism? From what I've heard, they're quite big on personal firearms there.

[Masterofm]

Secondly, throughout history merchants have gotten a bad rap ...

At the time of Buddha in ancient India, merchants were near the bottom as they were in many Western and Middle Eastern societies, even though they were essential for raising the bar of the quality of life for those same societies

 

I enjoy your words.

 

This is actually true of not only India, but China and many other nations as well.  In fact many merchants in China would make profit so that their sons would be able to become bureaucrats and able to move up on the ladder of society.  So in the end most merchants were in it for more short term gain.  Which is why many historians theorize why Europe was able to do so well after the black plague as it allowed for a middle class to be created, and since they would generate so much wealth many merchants were able to buy titles and honors.

 

In fact this created the word Snob.  Mainly due to high class private schools would always announce titles.  Duke, count, ect. but those who did not have a title were put down a S Nob.  An abbreviation of Sans Noblesse or without nobility.  I know it's a bit of a divergent thought from my thread, but history is quite interesting and amusing.

 

What is even more interesting is the fact that we forget that many corporations even today have done some pretty terrible and horrendous things to turn a profit.  However a corporation is composed of just regular people.  People who are probably defending themselves from.... well..... Killing machines specifically built to kill things.

 

 

 

So... would bombing an average southern-US neighbourhood be terrorism? From what I've heard, they're quite big on personal firearms there.

 

Technically it would only be 50% terrorism.  Because probably only 50% of them would have firearms.  Zing!

 

The argument is spacious at best, and flagrant at worst.  There are more interesting points to be made, and there are thoughts on perspective.  However I hear contradictory points sometimes in the same argument.  If the Tenno only wish to restore order.... why don't they destroy the corpus and grineer?  I mean I get that it would kill the game itself, but the go to strategy in a war is to conquer the enemy.  Not just try for minor setbacks.

[vaugahn]

Technically it would only be 50% terrorism.  Because probably only 50% of them would have firearms.  Zing!

 

Depending on which neighborhood you're in that number could be waaaaaaay higher

[(PSN)Stinja]

Yes, we are Terrorists.

Digital Extremes has made a Terrorist training simulator.

 

Well done for saying the key words to flag up this to the intelligence services (usual stuff like "kill the president" or "how do i make a bomb" or "amerika [sic] must teh [sic] blow up base").  Some american government organisation will now drone-strike DE's offices with a guided missile, and we will have server outages and moaning posts shortly...

 

 

 

I always feel sorry killing corpus prod crewmen:  he's just there doing his job, fixing some part of the ship that's broken.  Then this alarm goes off, and some crazy ninja-terrorist starts killing your friends and robots, so you run up with your prod-stick :(  yeah poor guys.

Edited September 2, 2014 by (PS4)Stinja

[ElHefe]

Yes, we are Terrorists.

Digital Extremes has made a Terrorist training simulator.

 

Well done for saying the key words to flag up this to the intelligence services (usual stuff like "kill the president" or "how do i make a bomb" or "amerika [sic] must teh [sic] blow up base").  Some american government organisation will now drone-strike DE's offices with a guided missile, and we will have server outages and moaning posts shortly...

 

"Key words"?  Really now ... 

BUT statements such as those are absurdly exaggerated and needlessly inflammatory

This thread is a calm discussion about a piece of fictional entertainment - not an anarchist convention

 

EDIT:  Oh ... and if I missed your brilliant sarcasm, then apologies - pass it off as a stogy old man's antiquated sensibilities

Edited September 2, 2014 by ElHefe

[ElHefe]

(edited ...) In fact this created the word Snob ... An abbreviation of Sans Noblesse or without nobility.

 

I did not know that ... very cool 1+ for erudition

[Cemges]

We are futur successors of Militaires Sans Frontiers, we are carriers of big boss' will, for our outer haven.

[SheakZarnn]

An interesting topic. Corpus and Grineer higher-ups may call us terrorists, but there's a catch. Terrorists deliberately target civilians to instill fear in population. We don't.

[Hyperion5182]

Right so I know this seems like an odd thing to say, but seriously it does make me wonder.

 

You raid ships, destroy ships, and mainly terrorize both the corpus and grineer, plant information, and of course rob them blind of any precious material they have.

 

You also go on a mission to take out a "corrupt" member of the diplomatic council (boss fight) and end up starting a war between the corpus and grineer to profit from both sides struggle.  I mean you only hear about the story from the Lotus.  What if she is lying to us?  What if actually Vey Hek was trying to unify the corpus and grineer?  I mean most of what he was saying is basically translated by Lotus right?  They used to speak gibberish so I wonder if our minds are being skewed towards a different train of thought.

 

Which led me to thinking.  What if Lotus is actually trying to tip the balance of power in the solar system so that all life can be exterminated.  Pull everything into the void so to speak.  Maybe this is what happened to the ancient civilization.  A sentient AI exterminated all sentient life and then went to hibernation.  Maybe that's why the warframes have been hiding for so long.  But with their memories wiped they don't realize they are working for the inevitable destruction of their race.

 

What if Stalker is actually trying to restore balance?  What if he is the last Tenno to remember what we are actually fighting about?  I mean he does warn us that what we are doing and that our actions will have consequences.....  What if taking out these key figures is disrupting the natural flow and order of the universe?  What if what we as Tenno are doing is really turning the gears of our own destruction?

 

Maybe we are just indoctrinated terrorists pulling off some insane AI's plan.  Something to think about at least.

 

I got news for ya.

 

For believing in Liberty Freedom and the Rule of Law in the united states you're on multiple governmental watch lists and probably on a list of 'kill these guys first' when the hammer drops.

 

In a day where everyone deceives telling the truth is a terrorist act. Don't over think matters or your brain will burn out. 

[BrazilianJoe]

Depends on who wins the war and writes future history. 

 

Terrorists or freedom fighters. 

 

But, sink this in:

 

ALL WAR IS TERRORISM. 

[PookieNumnums]

arent the grineer and corpus both hunting us

 

we arent terrorists till the devs add little grineer and corpus children and subfaction innocents for us to slaughter.

 

that being said.. i cant wait for reputation and npc models to be added into the game and purposeful or accidental murder of noncombative npcs affecting how the factions see us.  

 

as for lotus they stated shes not an enemy or evil 

iirc one of the factions refers to lotus as our mother.. vor i think 

[Loveshack]

To be a terrorist implies a political or social motivation for change.  The key term here being "motivation".

With that in mind, I'm certain I am a serial killer.

[Masterofm]

as for lotus they stated shes not an enemy or evil

 

Link?  I'd love to be wrong.

 

 

I got news for ya.

 

For believing in Liberty Freedom and the Rule of Law in the united states you're on multiple governmental watch lists and probably on a list of 'kill these guys first' when the hammer drops.

 

In a day where everyone deceives telling the truth is a terrorist act. Don't over think matters or your brain will burn out. 

 

And when the day comes to that would anyone really want to live in a world where those who question the problems in our society are killed?

 

 

An interesting topic. Corpus and Grineer higher-ups may call us terrorists, but there's a catch. Terrorists deliberately target civilians to instill fear in population. We don't.

 

Please read the definition.  Also really take a good look at what the Corpus really are.

 

 

To be a terrorist implies a political or social motivation for change.  The key term here being "motivation".

 

So to assassinate a key leading figure to "destabilize a region" to supposably "make it safer" isn't motivation?

[Cemges]

Link?  I'd love to be wrong.

 

 

 

And when the day comes to that would anyone really want to live in a world where those who question the problems in our society are killed?

 

 

 

Please read the definition.  Also really take a good look at what the Corpus really are.

 

 

 

So to assassinate a key leading figure to "destabilize a region" to supposably "make it safer" isn't motivation?

The problem is, who the hell is breaking balance of solar system? Aren't we the ones who do it? Havent we killed our masters which we needed to save? Why the hell we went to sleep and why we woke up? Who are we supposed to defend? If its our population we must save, why bother going to cryosleep and going back up so much time later in same place? Is it thst we closed our eyes and wished that it all disappears? Or is it that we decided we were bad for solar system, and sent to sleep, and woke up, forgot our nature, and yet we are needed somehow to bring balance? To protect who? Or is lotus just using us? What are motives of lotus, who is she working for and what are our employers beyond those corpus and grineer? So many questions to ask and points to fill. However U15 archwing looks great and if DE accomplishes to make all the game mechanics sit in the place before Q12015, we can see some serious lore stuff on U16 by next summer.

[ElHefe]

arent the grineer and corpus both hunting us

 

we arent terrorists till the devs add little grineer and corpus children and subfaction innocents for us to slaughter.

 

that being said.. i cant wait for reputation and npc models to be added into the game and purposeful or accidental murder of noncombative npcs affecting how the factions see us.  

 

as for lotus they stated shes not an enemy or evil 

iirc one of the factions refers to lotus as our mother.. vor i think 

 

To your first point, Yes they are because:

1. The Tenno might pose a threat them

2. The Tenno already have proven themselves to be a treat - under the auspices of The Lotus (thank you very much)

3. The Tenno a valuable resource (Corpus parts factories and new tech, Grineer cloning pens and new gene pool)

 

As to your second point, children have nothing to do with the definition of terrorism ... only how sick it is

 

On the your third point, again yes ... should stir the pot considerably

 

And your last point, Vor has serious "momma" issues ... not sure if we can take him at face value :P

[Zsar]

So, I have spent the last two days killing Tyl Regor over and over to get that damn Ash System... which still did not drop once after 22 Regor deaths.

... In this mission, Lotus pretty much lies right into your face: The deterioration of the Grineer be a state, brought upon by excessive cloning, which naturally uphold balance.

 

Vor told us in the Tutorial that they are all sterile. So guess what they do? Excessive cloning. But then it is not a state, it is a process. Deterioration, "becoming worse over time".

We kill a doctor to keep the Grineer inside a downward spiral. That is the antithesis of maintaining the status quo.

 

Incidentally, Tyl Regor is said to be possessed by "a complete lack of morales". Says the Lotus. Who sent us to kill him. In order to ensure the creation of crippled people over healthy. If you think that euthanasia was bad, what do you think about this inversion!?

 

Incidentally, her claims are also at odds with Sargas Ruk when she sends us to kill him. "Almost inhuman hatred for all that is not Grineer". The guy who has the manners to congratulate me on a good fight before I blast his chest apiece. The guy who (like Regor and like the Radio Grineer) clearly refers to Grineer domination (of others) rather then Tenno-style extermination. - I may be mistaken, but I find the notion of ruling over someone less spiteful than the notion to slice&dice them all and add viral pathogens to the ordnance for good measure.

 

Ever since U14 turned Cpt. Vor into a senile, nostalgic wannabe-grandfather, what the Lotus tells about him is questionable as well. "The entire sector will be grateful" that we kill the guy who, even though it goes way above his head, tries to somehow restore his kind to health by clutching straws (or in this case: eon-old nanobot-infested corpses with freakish powers and no regard for the living), losing his post, his grace, and finally his life on the way.

 

But, well, why would the people, who decimated their rulers just to preserve a state of war (or at least we do not know any other motivation to turn against the Orokin when the Stalker did not; probably would have joined if they had had the same idea and we just acted first), now do anything else than try to maximise - a state of war. Created to fight, they probably cannot comprehend any other form of existence (and put themselves into stasis when they had nothing left to fight)?

 

--

 

Just to emphasise the point again: We are the guys who kill Alexander Fleming before he can discover Penicilline, Louis Pasteur before he can develop the vaccination technique; what more do you want for terrorism?

The Corpus Targets even beg and grovel like the airport civilians in Call of Duty Modern Combat (Was it 2?) before we disintegrate them. "Escorted to Extraction"? Why does that not work on Rescue targets?

(Lotus AI theory fits well into this part: keep the information, throw away the rest, call it "escort")

Edited September 2, 2014 by Zsar

[Masterofm]

The problem is, who the hell is breaking balance of solar system? Aren't we the ones who do it? Havent we killed our masters which we needed to save? Why the hell we went to sleep and why we woke up? Who are we supposed to defend? If its our population we must save, why bother going to cryosleep and going back up so much time later in same place? Is it thst we closed our eyes and wished that it all disappears? Or is it that we decided we were bad for solar system, and sent to sleep, and woke up, forgot our nature, and yet we are needed somehow to bring balance? To protect who? Or is lotus just using us? What are motives of lotus, who is she working for and what are our employers beyond those corpus and grineer? So many questions to ask and points to fill. However U15 archwing looks great and if DE accomplishes to make all the game mechanics sit in the place before Q12015, we can see some serious lore stuff on U16 by next summer.

 

And these are great questions to ask.  I have to say I really enjoy reading them.  I'd love to see more lore fleshed out, and I would honestly love to see more twists and turns for the story itself.  There are a lot of questions right now that can't truly be answered.  Things could go either way.  Could the Lotus be using us?  Have we woken up to destroy that which we have destroyed thousands of years ago?

 

So, I have spent the last two days killing Tyl Regor over and over to get that damn Ash System... which still did not drop once after 22 Regor deaths.

... In this mission, Lotus pretty much lies right into your face: The deterioration of the Grineer be a state, brought upon by excessive cloning, which naturally uphold balance.

 

Vor told us in the Tutorial that they are all sterile. So guess what they do? Excessive cloning. But then it is not a state, it is a process. Deterioration, "becoming worse over time".

We kill a doctor to keep the Grineer inside a downward spiral. That is the antithesis of maintaining the status quo.

 

Incidentally, Tyl Regor is said to be possessed by "a complete lack of morales". Says the Lotus. Who sent us to kill him. In order to ensure the creation of crippled people over healthy. If you think that euthanasia was bad, what do you think about this inversion!?

 

Just to emphasise the point again: We are the guys who kill Alexander Fleming before he can discover Penicilline, Louis Pasteur before he can develop the vaccination technique; what more do you want for terrorism?

The Corpus Targets even beg and grovel like the airport civilians in Call of Duty Modern Combat (Was it 2?) before we disintegrate them. "Escorted to Extraction"? Why does that not work on Rescue targets?

(Lotus AI theory fits well into this part: keep the information, throw away the rest, call it "escort")

 

And that is what makes me wonder.  This person is trying to save his race so we kill him.  We are condoning them all to death, and forcing them to take more extreme and drastic measures to save their people.

 

Both of you have asked a lot of really great questions.  To me this is what I love to see.  For you are really looking at the wholes and questioning the reasoning rather then taking it as fact.

 

To me?  Yes all of this could be just speculation and Warframe could just be one cracker jack action movie type of cliche, but I would love to see it have something deeper and it could certainly be something deeper.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Masterofm

[ElHefe]

@ Zsar ... awesome post!  Heavy, maann, heavy.  Will be thinking on this ... 1+

[IAmTheWar]

And here I thought we were just glorified treasure hunters like what Sargas Ruk said.