So.... As The Tenno We Are Actually Terrorists?

[Zsar]

Mmh. Was a bit cranky when I wrote that post. Point still stands, but I guess the tone was a bit harsher than intended, after having to hear the flowergirl's nonsense for the whole day.

... Still need to get that Warframe System (one, one is all I ask for). Glorified Treasure Hunter fits it really well: Tyl Regor has to die. - Not for balance, for (an) Ash.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Zsar

[-Vondred-]

Some of you. .. My brain hurts. So idiotic. The real threat is DE. They're the terrorists!

[jj16802]

Let me put in it terms of Burn Notice:

Lotus = Management

Tenno = Michael Westin/Simon Escher/Victor Stecker-Epps or any other burned operative.

 

I don't know about you guys, but I'm just here for the blood.

Edited September 4, 2014 by jj16802

[MemeticRepo]

I feel more spec ops. Not terrorists.

says every terrorist ever.

I know what you're thinking... but not all terrorists use bombs...

Edited September 4, 2014 by MemeticRepo

[Masterofm]

Mmh. Was a bit cranky when I wrote that post. Point still stands, but I guess the tone was a bit harsher than intended, after having to hear the flowergirl's nonsense for the whole day.

... Still need to get that Warframe System (one, one is all I ask for). Glorified Treasure Hunter fits it really well: Tyl Regor has to die. - Not for balance, for (an) Ash.

 

No man it really does fit though if you really look at it.  I mean it might not be DE's intention, but it would quite interesting.

 

 

says every terrorist ever.

I know what you're thinking... but not all terrorists use bombs...

 

Indeed.  But it is interesting to plum people to see how they think.  And even those who disagree, still disagree in different ways.  People seem to draw different lines on what does or does not make it O.K. to do what the Tenno do.

 

 

Let me put in it terms of Burn Notice:

Lotus = Management

Tenno = Michael Westin/Simon Escher/Victor Stecker-Epps or any other burned operative.

 

I don't know about you guys, but I'm just here for the blood.

 

An interesting thought.  We do carry out missions like a spy would.... but you know what is interesting?  A lot of acts that those "spys" do in Burn Notice are put down as acts of terrorism in magazine clippings and whatnot.

[(PSN)king_kmodo93]

I've come up with a small theory. The Orokin came up with the technocyte virus that created the infested. They then released it on The sentient's (who we still have no idea who they are) and The Lotus took a line from someone who I forget the name of that once sad something along the lines of "If you deem that any means necessary are allowed to fight an evil, you become the evil you are fighting." The Lotus saw this with The Orokin and recruited the Tenno to restore balance as she hopes to now.

 

The current conflict seems to be more of an act of self preservation of the Tenno as both Alad V and Vor are trying to use Orokin tech for themselves. Alad V for the Zanuka project originally and Vor for control. This also would lead to a upset in the balance of power in they system if either one of them truly got their way which makes our mission not terroristic but one of judge, jury, and executioner in some cases.

[Zsar]

[...] not terroristic but one of judge, jury, and executioner in some cases.

Considering that we neither are nor are affiliated with the actual rulers - where is the difference?

Or more concise, how is the latter under these circumstances not a mere subclass of the former?

Edited September 4, 2014 by Zsar

[SilentMobius]

Yes, of course we are.

 

The Grineer and Corpus are the de-facto ruling groups and we are engaged in asymmetric warfare with them. We are also freedom fighters depending on who you ask.

 

Every asymmetric conflict has revolutionary side labelled as "terrorists", and their supporters label them at "freedom fighters" 

 

What matters are the details of each conflict.

[grnchtrr]

We are the guardians of the galaxy, we are here to maintain balance.

WE ARE GROOT

[Masterofm]

I've come up with a small theory. The Orokin came up with the technocyte virus that created the infested. They then released it on The sentient's (who we still have no idea who they are) and The Lotus took a line from someone who I forget the name of that once sad something along the lines of "If you deem that any means necessary are allowed to fight an evil, you become the evil you are fighting." The Lotus saw this with The Orokin and recruited the Tenno to restore balance as she hopes to now.

 

The current conflict seems to be more of an act of self preservation of the Tenno as both Alad V and Vor are trying to use Orokin tech for themselves. Alad V for the Zanuka project originally and Vor for control. This also would lead to a upset in the balance of power in they system if either one of them truly got their way which makes our mission not terroristic but one of judge, jury, and executioner in some cases.

 

Well but really take a look at the problems the Tenno are and what they create.  Some of the conflicts are viewed as successes because we keep trying to keep the corpus and the grineer in a stalemate.  Not to destroy them or wipe them out, but always have them at each others throats while making sure neither side defeats the other.  Not only that but we are willing to assassinate, or destroy thousands upon thousands of ships to make it happen.

 

We really don't take and hold either.  We just strike and retreat causing chaos in our wake.  We are at best blood thirsty thieves and at more likely terrorists of the system.

[vaugahn]

Well but really take a look at the problems the Tenno are and what they create.  Some of the conflicts are viewed as successes because we keep trying to keep the corpus and the grineer in a stalemate.  Not to destroy them or wipe them out, but always have them at each others throats while making sure neither side defeats the other.  Not only that but we are willing to assassinate, or destroy thousands upon thousands of ships to make it happen.

 

We really don't take and hold either.  We just strike and retreat causing chaos in our wake.  We are at best blood thirsty thieves and at more likely terrorists of the system.

 

The main problem is we're not really doing anything.

 

The Corpus and the Grineer have both existed for centuries. That much we know. They've probably been doing their whole hot/cold war thing for most of that time. The lotus was apparently content to let us sleep, at least until they started coming after our cryopods. At that point she woke us up, and now she's using us to...prolong the war? Wait, what?

 

"Balance" apparently means endless conflict between two infinite forces. We're not doing anything to stop the war, just selectively striking to keep either side from gaining the upper hand. What's the endgame here? Where is that plan supposed to lead?

[Masterofm]

The main problem is we're not really doing anything.

 

The Corpus and the Grineer have both existed for centuries. That much we know. They've probably been doing their whole hot/cold war thing for most of that time. The lotus was apparently content to let us sleep, at least until they started coming after our cryopods. At that point she woke us up, and now she's using us to...prolong the war? Wait, what?

 

"Balance" apparently means endless conflict between two infinite forces. We're not doing anything to stop the war, just selectively striking to keep either side from gaining the upper hand. What's the endgame here? Where is that plan supposed to lead?

 

A counter thought.  What if the Lotus was unable to wake us up?  What if the meddling of the Grineer allowed her to do this?  An AI floating around the Grineer and Corpus systems only to discover them again with the other races.  This could be thousands of years and another thought.  What if the Corpus and the Grineer were actually two factions working together before the Tenno.  What if there was actually peace before the introduction of the Tenno?  Not enough to go on, but there are other things one can speculate on.

 

The Tenno cryopods were quite well hidden though.

 

But yes the balance is to allow the conflict to still be a conflict.  Not to end the war.  It is a good question though.  What is the end goal?

[Sebastianx]

Then what about the Gradivus Dilemma, we just helped them for the pay? I doubt that's how terrorists work...but then again, what do I know, I'm not a terrorist.

[SilentMobius]

Well but really take a look at the problems the Tenno are and what they create.  Some of the conflicts are viewed as successes because we keep trying to keep the corpus and the grineer in a stalemate.  Not to destroy them or wipe them out, but always have them at each others throats while making sure neither side defeats the other.  Not only that but we are willing to assassinate, or destroy thousands upon thousands of ships to make it happen.

 

We really don't take and hold either.  We just strike and retreat causing chaos in our wake.  We are at best blood thirsty thieves and at more likely terrorists of the system.

 

The Tenno Wiped out the Orokin most likely because they were immortal tyrants who were using humanity as playthings for their own designs.

 

The Grineer/Corpus/Others _are_ the humanity that the Tenno sought to liberate, we only step in when one force is threatening to "pull an Orokin" and completely dominate the system, potentially resurrecting dangerous Orokin Tech.

 

The Tenno aren't wiping them out because ultimately we don't have the Authority, we're just keeping the system as stable as possible.

[-CM-ThaWolf]

We are Spec Ops Mercs

[(PSN)king_kmodo93]

Considering that we neither are nor are affiliated with the actual rulers - where is the difference?

Or more concise, how is the latter under these circumstances not a mere subclass of the former?

Is Batman a terrorist? Not by most standards most would call him a vigilante, the biggest difference between us and Batman is that we, as Tenno, are more than willing to kill those responsible in order to achieve our aims (which is where the executioner part comes in) while Batman is not.

[SeaUrchins]

the biggest difference between us and Batman is that we, as Tenno

 

kill any living thing without a hesitation if Lotus tells us. Yea, that's terrorism.

[vaugahn]

kill any living thing without a hesitation if Lotus tells us. Yea, that's terrorism.

 

Arguably Batman is also a terrorist, because ridding Gotham of crime is a (semi)political agenda, and he uses terror to achieve it.

[SeaUrchins]

Arguably Batman is also a terrorist

 

Hardly arguably, he is one for sure, if you kill serial killers for "the sake of all the good people", you are still a serial killer and an outlaw.

[Cemges]

Hardly arguably, he is one for sure, if you kill serial killers for "the sake of all the good people", you are still a serial killer and an outlaw.

It's called vigilante.

[Venarge]

it would be terrorism if we would fck civilians up. But srly. Every fcker who points his gun at me gets sliced up. Those

dudes want to kill us or rip us apart to make us their pet robots. They get what they deserve.

[Zsar]

it would be terrorism if we would fck civilians up. But srly. Every fcker who points his gun at me gets sliced up. Those

dudes want to kill us or rip us apart to make us their pet robots. They get what they deserve.

So, in the USA, if you enter someones property uninvited, in a state where it is legal for the owner to shoot at you for trespassing - killing them before they can is alright?

 

They never try to kill us in the Dojo or the Liset.

 

... Another point: How do we recognise civilians? Crewmen? The Grineer just might not have a civilian class.

 

Yet another point: Cast World in Flames. Or Chaos. Or Radial Javelin. Everyone dies. Who was the civilian? Did you look for civilians beforehand? How many people did you kill before even checking whether they could be civilian?

(Arguably, without game mechanics to explicitely divide NPCs into civs and non-civs, the point is rather moot.)

Edited September 6, 2014 by Zsar

[Corvid]

Zsar, on 06 Sept 2014 - 11:27 AM, said:

So, in the USA, if you enter someones property uninvited, in a state where it is legal for him to shoot at you for trespassing - killing them before they can is alright?

 

They never try to kill us in the Dojo or the Liset.

 

... Another point: How do we recognise civilians? Crewmen? The Grineer just might not have a civilian class.

 

Yet another point: Cast World in Flames. Or Chaos. Or Radial Javelin. Everyone dies. Who was the civilian? Did you look for civilians beforehand? How many people did you kill before even checking whether they could be civilian?

(Arguably, without game mechanics to explicitely divide NPCs into civs and non-civs, the point is rather moot.)

 

How often do you find civilians on military vessels/bases?

[Zsar]

How often do you find civilians on military vessels/bases?

Counter-questions: Military mining operations? Military industries? How military are the ships of a merchant guild?

 

The military presence in these places is undeniable. The presence of the Tenno illustrates the necessity of that military.

Targets of the Tenno? Mining equipment, non-uniformed (civilian?) personnel, prisoners with professional weapon training (terrorists themselves?), data (cloud?) servers.

 

I feel that the "no civilian targets" argument cannot be employed to the benefit of the Tenno, no matter how.

[Corvid]

Zsar, on 06 Sept 2014 - 1:54 PM, said:

Counter-questions: Military mining operations? Military industries? How military are the ships of a merchant guild?

 

The military presence in these places is undeniable. The presence of the Tenno illustrates the necessity of that military.

Targets of the Tenno? Mining equipment, non-uniformed (civilian?) personnel, prisoners with professional weapon training (terrorists themselves?), data (cloud?) servers.

 

I feel that the "no civilian targets" argument cannot be employed to the benefit of the Tenno, no matter how.

 

As militarised as any expansionist faction is: almost entirely. Hell, Tyl Regor is a civilian scientist, and he knows how to defend himself.