What It Means To Be Nekros

[Azawarau]

Pretty sure you are the one missing the point. Players just see "loot" most of the time, and they see Nekros as a way to get more. If he got more/better abilities, unless those abilities cut enemies in half to Desecrate even more, players will still use Nekros to just Desecrate. You would have to nerf Desecrate to a point where spamming it is not anywhere as effective - at least on the Drop tables - before that changes. I'm sorry, but DE seriously underestimated player greed on that one.

 

You want less 3 spam, players want more loot. Boosting his other skills won't change the fact people want more cores and more mods. Unless you make it he can only Desecrate his own kills, it won't change, and even then a team will probably just get a Vauban to Vortex a bunch of things for Nekros to Penta spam, and then Desecrate anyway.

Why would you have to nerf desecrate to buff other things?

[OnnaJReverT]

@Azawarau

 

because if desecrate isnt nerfed along with buffs to nekros other abilities it will lead to the same 3-spam because more loot is more important to many players than a functioning 4th teammate

[Azawarau]

@Azawarau

 

because if desecrate isnt nerfed along with buffs to nekros other abilities it will lead to the same 3-spam because more loot is more important to many players than a functioning 4th teammate

Thats ridiculous

 

Anyone who uses nekros for 3 spam exclusively will continue to do so

 

Anyone who wants more out of him will go for another build instead

 

it wouldnt change a thing except more players playing nekros for things other than desecrate spam

[RealPandemonium]

@Azawarau

 

because if desecrate isnt nerfed along with buffs to nekros other abilities it will lead to the same 3-spam because more loot is more important to many players than a functioning 4th teammate

Any frame can be functional without a single ability equipped.  Nekros has 4 functioning abilities that, though in need of tweaks to maximize fulfillment, are not without merit.  And he (probably) has a maxed out Boltor Prime that makes his abilities icing on the cake.  The Nekros in the screenshot was probably leveling weapons and was in the mission for a free ride.

Edited September 1, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[ShotgunFacelift]

desecrate needs to be changed completely.

 

currently nekros is the only option to get the massive benefits desecrate grants (more loot, more HP, more air for survivals) - no alternative.

 

just an idea: turn desecrate into a corpse explosion type skill (damaging enemies) while either retaining the health orb drop or link the health orb drops to kills caused by the corpse explosion. No more item and air drops.

 

I love itemfind, and i love the benefits of having a nekros on board, but it's unfun for the nekros involved, and even less fun how mandatory it has become to have one on board.

[fatpig84]

Terrify needs to have no target limit.

 

So nekro can squeal them away and gb2looting.

Slow downs enemies so teammates can actually shoot them.

And keep the armor reduction.

 

In fact let the armor reduction and movement speed debuff increase with power strength.

That will be nice.

[Azawarau]

Any frame can be functional without a single ability equipped.  Nekros has 4 functioning abilities that, though in need of tweaks to maximize fulfillment, are not without merit.  And he (probably) has a maxed out Boltor Prime that makes his abilities icing on the cake.  The Nekros in the screenshot was probably leveling weapons and was in the mission for a free ride.

Thats actually almost exactly what happened though we did two matches with this nekros

 

he had just formad his Synapse and secondary after the first and hopped in for the second

[[DE]Momaw]

some ideas then?

 

1.) Soul Punch.

The problem:

Single target non-scaling damage.

 

Fix:

Does 10% of the enemy's max health in damage, plus {strength} as a flat integer value, to a single target.  If the target dies from this hit, then does AOE damage equal to the enemy's max hit points.

 

This allows the ability to scale to enemy level, and becomes more tactically interesting and rewarding.

 

2.) Terror.

The problem:

Clumsy crowd control that will be generally be useless when you really need it, and irritates your team.

 

Fix:

For the next {duration} seconds, any enemy who is within a short distance of Nekros is struck by his sheer menace, and cowers in fear.  Enemies who hit him with ranged weapons have a chance of being similarly affected for a shorter time.

 

By immobilizing enemies instead of forcing them to run away, you avoid irritating your team. And by making it an aura that moves with Nekros, it is a far more useful defensive measure since it will update to affect any enemies he comes in contact with.

 

3.) Desecrate.

The problem:

Great team support, but not really thematic. Also really easy to min-max for this.

 

Fix:

Enemy corpses within {range} explode, afflicting enemies with diseases that slow and weaken them. Corpses exploded roll on the loot table, however the chance to get anything except a health orb scales based on {duration}.

 

Gives more thematic functionality and reduces min-max potential.

 

4.) Shadows of the Dead.

The problem:

A very slow ability to cast, on a frame that has no ability to protect itself from damage. The shadows created are dumb as a box of rocks and generally useless outside of Survival or Mobile Defense where enemies will rush in great numbers.

 

Fix:

Nekros becomes invulnerable while casting this. For the next {duration} seconds, enemies killed by Nekros will rise and fight for him. Risen shadows only last a short time but have {strength}% of their original stats (can greatly exceed 100%!).

 

Allows the ability to function in a useful way for more mission types by moving with Nekros instead of being limited to fortifying a small area.

 

 

It should go without saying that any fix to make his other abilities more interesting will reduce his ability to do non-stop Desecration, and therefore any improvements to Nekros need to be accompanied by a long-overdue improvement to Survival mode.

[AlienOvermind]

I feel there's only one real solution to Nekros problem: remove loot reroll completely and just buff all droprates a bit.

Another semi-viable solution would be turning Desecrate into toggleable aura, that would automatically desecrate corpses in some range. This way Nekros would have enough time for all cool ninja stuff. But! That wouldn't solve the main problem — people would still use him only for droprate buff. And I would really like Nekros to be useful without his loot rerolling.

[Sev7n]

Terrify needs to have no target limit.

 

So nekro can squeal them away and gb2looting.

Slow downs enemies so teammates can actually shoot them.

And keep the armor reduction.

 

In fact let the armor reduction and movement speed debuff increase with power strength.

That will be nice.

And this is really all that nekros needs for him to start being viable outside of desecrate builds.

A max strength nekros with a corrosive projection equipped gives an armor reduction of 75%. (pretty dam nice debuff if you ask me since it also fears the targets keeping them from attacking you). Only problem is as of right now this is only useful on bosses and exterminate/invasions since the cap of enemies affected limits its use when fighting against many enemies at once (mainly seen in missions with infinite amount of enemies).

 

The skill itself is amazing, it's one and only major flaw is its cap. It needs to be removed.

[Noble_Cactus]

A while back, I suggested a dual rework for Soul Punch/Shadows. Here's what I came up with:

 

Soul Punch no longer ragdolls enemies halfway across the map. While funny, its disable is unreliable. The new Soul Punch instead stuns the target enemy and any other enemies in a small radius around him/her for a second or two. Any enemies hit by the Soul Punch now glow or have another visual effect surrounding them and are considered cursed. When killed by any player, cursed enemies revive as Shadows and fight for Nekros' squad for a short duration. This change attempts to solve a few issues: 1.) Nekros having to kill snipe powerful enemies, because now anyone can spawn a minion, 2.) Soul Punch's unreliable CC, since the ragdoll usually ends up sending the enemy flying and makes the enemy harder for his team to kill. It also opens up new opportunities for unique CC. By tagging a few enemies in a dense crowd, Nekros can raise an army right at the enemy's doorstep. Instead of having to rely on Shadow's bad AI to seek out targets, Soul Punched enemies will instantly aggro and create a line of defense between the enemy and Nekros' team.

 

Also, minions should allow attacks to go through them.

 

Shadows of the Dead now summons a cloud of spirits around Nekros based on how many enemies he has killed. All of these ghosts do the same thing, so there is no need to have to kill snipe certain enemies anymore. Instead, these ghosts follow Nekros around and seek out targets to haunt. Haunted enemies become stunned, confused, or are afflicted with some other new status effect that helps with crowd control. While summoning a small army serves as a decent distraction with the current Shadows, Terrify aims to do the same thing in terms of CC. A change like fatpig's could help distinguish the two, and with both abilities out at once, Nekros could be a veritable crowd controlling force on the battlefield. 

 

Nekros, a one trick pony?

 

Ah, whatever.

 

People keep saying that 'x' build or 'y' weapon is THE best and ANYONE who doesn't use THOSE is a stupid noob.

 

Last I checked, wasn't this game supposed to be about having FUN?

 

I have fun when I play Nekros and no, I don't JUST Desecrate spam unless I am asked for that and trust the team I am with to give me support. (VERY RARE that happens) 

 

I try to have fun no matter the frame I play. That is enough for me.

 

I know, I know. According to the UBER ELITE who post here, I am stupid not to want to go to wave 30000 on survival or something equally idiotic. I don't care.

 

No need to get your knickers in a bunch. I just don't think any of Nekros' abilities are fun. Soul Punch has that wonky targeting problem and is just an odd move in his toolkit because it's a ragdoll CC. Terrify only affects a limited number of enemies and scatters them, making them hard to kill. Desecrate is... Desecrate. Shadows has poor AI and often ends up just clogging hallways and doors. It also has no player involvement outside pressing 4 and letting the minions do their own thing.

 

Skinny guy needs a rework.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Noble_Cactus

[vaugahn]

Here's a guide for playing Nekros. This will tell you exactly which keys you need to press in any mission to be a good Nekros player.

 

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[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

No.  Nekros needs to spam that Desecrate. That or just make it a toggle skill.

[Noble_Cactus]

No.  Nekros needs to spam that Desecrate. That or just make it a toggle skill.

 

My problem with that is that toggles now seem to be the new band-aid approach to reworking abilities. Toggles are fine, but we can probably come up with more creative solutions to making abilities more engaging than "Oh, I should turn that off now/I should pop an energy restore now."

[FaintestAura]

I read of an idea where desecrate would be like a timed aura around nekros that automatically desecrates fallen enemies, not having to spam 3. I do enjoy nekros for terrify and desecrate but I agree. He has long been due for changes to make use of the good ideas in his skill set. 

[MoistWomble]

Now you guys complain that he's very useful with his ability, after nerfing it everyone will cry "why nerfing?"

[Noble_Cactus]

Now you guys complain that he's very useful with his ability, after nerfing it everyone will cry "why nerfing?"

 

They won't be the same people.

[dashashou]

the frame is broken when u need to set a macro to stop carpal tunnel / save your 3 key - it should be a 30 sec aura

[Azawarau]

No.  Nekros needs to spam that Desecrate. That or just make it a toggle skill.

Nothing wrong with that on its own

 

The issue is its literally the only thing that makes him viable

 

Now you guys complain that he's very useful with his ability, after nerfing it everyone will cry "why nerfing?"

I wont have an issue so

 

the frame is broken when u need to set a macro to stop carpal tunnel / save your 3 key - it should be a 30 sec aura

Real Nekros players have hands and wrists of steel

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Nothing wrong with that on its own

 

The issue is its literally the only thing that makes him viable

Good.

[Noble_Cactus]

Good.

 

So you wouldn't want more reasons to bring Nekros to a team?

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

Desecrate is the most OP skill in the game. It's the only ability that directly helps you farm for stuff. Nekros immortal skin needs to be a straw hat and overalls. :P

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

So you wouldn't want more reasons to bring Nekros to a team?

I wouldn't want Nekros to have more excuses to not spam desecrate.  Desecrate spam is the only reason I would ever want him on my team, period.  That is not because his other skills need buffed; it is because I only want him there to increase drops, nothing else.

[DSpite]

desecrate needs to be changed completely.

 

currently nekros is the only option to get the massive benefits desecrate grants (more loot, more HP, more air for survivals) - no alternative.

 

just an idea: turn desecrate into a corpse explosion type skill (damaging enemies) while either retaining the health orb drop or link the health orb drops to kills caused by the corpse explosion. No more item and air drops.

 

I love itemfind, and i love the benefits of having a nekros on board, but it's unfun for the nekros involved, and even less fun how mandatory it has become to have one on board.

 

This is basically my point. DE gave Nekros the ability to give RNGesus the finger, by allowing a second dice roll at getting loot. It's basically messing with reality. No other Frame has such an ability, this is why anything else Nekros brings to the table becomes irrelevant.

 

Why are we running missions? At first, for fun, then it becomes about loot.

What is everyone complaining about? RNG.

What does Nekros do? Relieve some of the RNG.

 

Nekros could have an ability where by pressing a key, everything on the map is instantly vaporized, and STILL, if the bodies do NOT stay in order to use Desacrate, it would not be used

 

BECAUSE WE CANT GET MORE LOOT THAT WAY.

 

I'm sorry, but Desecrate is a good idea on paper, but not something you hand to players unless you have a game that bleeds more loot then a faulty copy of Borderlands, then Desecrate becomes something "extra", and not something extremely valuable.

[mindlord0013]

Make it a timed passive, that seems to be fair. It also means you could decrease the max range, giving incentive to be a little (a lot) more proactive. Also, I reckon Nekros could use a defensive buff of some kind. Maybe increase his health?