Ash Is Messed Up Now *sigh*

[Cyberhazard]

For me, as Ash is my main frame, first frame farmed crafted and played after Mag, There's only one thing that they can do to turn this frame into the perfect ninja/blade master frame in my opinion. Deleting shurikens and replacing them with Slash Dash.   But yeah , Ash is still my favorite frame, and I can Cosplay Jetstream Sam with him !

[Nagisawa]

I am not happy with the changes they have done to Ash these recent months. I know I have made many threads about Blade Storm in the past, but this thread is going to focus on the frame as a whole.

 

So what has become of Ash? He is just a press 4 frame now. His other abilities are irrelevant most of the time since Blade Storm is good enough to be used in most situations. Before, there were times to use Blade Storm and times when not to use Blade Storm. Turning it into an instant nuke makes it an ability that can be used at all times.

 

Let's talk about his abilities in relation with Blade Storm..

 

1) Shuriken- It's a fun ability to use with maxed efficiency build, but I don't see why people would want to use this when they can just Blade Storm more enemies to death. This ability is mostly good for destroying camera. I mean, 500 damage(maybe x2) vs 2000 finisher damage(x17 or until target is dead), which one is better? Leave the killing to Blade Storm.

 

2) Smoke Screen- I used to use it to revive teammates or to deal 4x melee damage to something. With the changes to Blade Storm, I don't need to go invisible to help a teammate. It would just take me 3 seconds to clear an area with Blade Storm for me to have enough time to help up a fallen teammate. Because Blade Storm is so fast and strong now, I don't feel the need to chase around targets when I can just press 4 and let it do all the work.

 

3) Teleport- This is described to be the ability to get into melee range. Why get into melee range when you can just safely Blade Storm from afar? Before, we didn't rely on Blade Storm to get rid of enemies from afar. We had to teleport in then use an AoE gun like a Penta to kill mobs. Now Blade Storm dispatches everything quickly from a distance. Even if you want to use this to melee, you have to deal with the stupid finisher that they added recently. The animation is cool and all to teleport and perform a killing act, but most of the time they don't die because finisher damage is not enough and you just end up wasting time. This ability has gotten more useless now..

 

So what is my point? Ash's other 3 abilities have become quite useless  They all get overshadowed by Blade Storm for most parts of the game with a maxed efficiency build for spammability(which is another issue with Blade Storm.) So recap: Shuriken is very weak compared to Blade Storm when both of them are meant as damage dealing abilites. Smoke Screen to hide is unnecesary when eveything dies by pressing 4, Why teleport to them when they can just die from Blade Storm? I think it's time for Ash to have his abilities looked at again.

 

 

Oh, and watch the profile video again to see how they messed up the animation of Blade Storm.It used to look so cool when the targets were red as you attacked them and how the sequence were zoomed in. Now it's choppy as hell as the white clones join in.

 

Although he was considered to be useless or whatever, I miss the Ash before the changes. I used all of his abilities back then for fun, and now Blade Storm is the only ability that matters. I am writing this in memory of the Ash that I used to know. 2013-2014 RIP

 

Bladestorm is still a cruel joke, less effective than Stomp or the bugged out Molecular Prime.  Because it still takes to long.  Personally, I just want the old Bladestorm back, with the red outlining and several more seconds, because I'd use him for soloing only, meaning no one else would ever get to deal with how slow he is.  Because rushing through the game is THE only way to play.  Let's make all the environmental artists in DE feel great by completely ignoring all their work, and roflcoptering through the entire game.  Because that's how you play Warframe.

Teleport ALWAYS sucked, because the recovery time meant that you got hit several times before you could actually move.

 

Smokescreen was a joke.  The base radius was too low to make it worth it in a party situation, and Loki's Invisibility is superiour.  There's a reason why people say 'Loki Master Race'.

 

Shuriken was probably the only useful power he has.  Which really isn't saying much.

 

Rest in Peace, Ash.  The Ninja That Never Was.

[Duyet]

Okay, I'm gonna put my two cents into here.

Honestly? I've had Ash for a while, and it is currently one of my favorite frames. I see no problems with its abilities with the way I play (though I try my hardest not to actually get detected, which is both the whole point of Ash and something that doesn't seem to be done often in Public Groups from my experience), though I do admit that there's always some things that could use some change.

Strangely enough, though, Blade Storm is one of my least-used abilities; I've been thinking of switching it out for something else or taking it out entirely so I can focus on maxing out everything else on my Ash.

If I do have to use Blade Storm, it's usually in emergencies (i.e. getting swarmed by Infested or needing to clear an area really quickly so I can revive a teammate or escape a situation that I can't normally get out of with Smokescreen*). Other than that, my weapons (ranged or melee) seem to do the job themselves, leaving no need for Blade Storm.

So while I do not agree with the notion that Ash has become a "spam 4 to win" Warframe, I do think that it doesn't get a whole lot of love from the folks over at DE, who seem to be more focused on working on the more popular frames (i.e. Frost, Rhino, Mirage, etc.) for now. And while I do not wish to rush them (because rushed work never means anything good in the end), I do agree that they should at least review Ash's abilities to see how they could improve them.

For example, I do not see Teleport as that useful of an ability in a wide variety of situations. The only time I've ever used it when I had it on my Ash Warframe is to revive teammates, and most of the time I'm close enough that I could do so without using Teleport in the first place. Perhaps they could replace it with something else while still keeping to the "ninja of the shadows" theme?

...So yeah. There's my two cents.

I played around with Ash today with all of his abilities, and I still feel that his 4 is the only one that matters.The other 3 are just for messing around. Shuriken for fast kills on weak targets... which I don't expect much from a 1. Smoke Screen is unneeded because I can wipe out an area in seconds while being invulnerable and it doesn't last long enough anyway. Teleport is just unnecessary. I can 1) throw shurikens, 2) shoot them with guns, 3) Blade Storm them, 4) ignore the enemies. There isn't much point in Teleport because it's more problematic than it's worth. I just don't have much use for his 3 other abilities, aside from just messing around. And you know what? Now you can just take out his other 3 and have room to max everything out.

And playing Ash steathily means he didn't need the BS buff in the first place. People complained that it took too long, and the DE just took someone's idea of throwing some clones in the mix and ran with it without much thoughts of what they were doing to this frame. It wasn't a room clearer frame. There are frames out there that are capable of doing that already, like Saryn and Nova. I don't like how they made his other 3 abilites seem so useless. He was a stealth, offensive frame. Now he is just an offensive frame. Stealth doesn't matter as much.

thanks for your 2 cents.

Auto targeting 20 meters

18 enemies take 6.9k damage over 6 seconds

2k FINISHER damage + 4.9k bleed

I do not believe there is any other ability that compares

Its not as much as being "Messed up" its that he was buffed to the point of being considered for a nerf

With max power range he gets 47meter search radius and still does 2.7k damage per target which is more than most frames can say

Max efficiency has no drawbacks

He is also invulnerable for the whole duration.

Duration mods do not increase number of targets which i guess is intentional drawback,

Not suggesting anything to make this skill more overpowered,

but skills that have multiple builds or ways to upgrade themselves are way more interactive and give more options, which I love

I love that Vauban's vortex can now have 130% range boost for example, instead of all efficient/duration builds

That just split vauban community into those with longer lasting vortexes/those with vortexes covering huge parts of map

Honestly, though, Saryn with max power strength does a whopping 4.2 damage while ash does 7k without modding

Mprime does 1.6k per enemy which requires 5 enemies to all die in instantly to equal ash's skill

Vauban does a whopping 50 per tick magnetic damage....

the only person on my mind who can equal that is Ember at 12k over 10 seconds or 1.2k per sec

Ash would do something like 1.15k per sec

My problem: Ash bypasses shield and is immortal while using the skill note that he is pretty tanky

Ember does fire damage and has to survive 10 seconds as a fragile frame

Fire damage crazily drops against non-infested with armour scaling...

I have seen so many Embers get downed that it's funny. And I agree, BS is too good now. It bypasses armor, forces bleed proc, is fast, has a long range, sniping capability, and provides invulnerablity. My problem with it is that it does way too much now... way too versatile and can be used in most situations where his other 3 abilities could shine. Now with the buff, I would do well with only his 4 equipped. His other abilities are forgotten.

For me, as Ash is my main frame, first frame farmed crafted and played after Mag, There's only one thing that they can do to turn this frame into the perfect ninja/blade master frame in my opinion. Deleting shurikens and replacing them with Slash Dash. But yeah , Ash is still my favorite frame, and I can Cosplay Jetstream Sam with him !

He is my first main frame too. I picked Loki as a starter frame over Mag and Excalibur because I have always liked going invisible. When I learned about Ash, I knew I had to build him. His Blade Storm was what peaked my interest( and also that he looks badass.) A frame capable of being offensive and going into stealth... I just had to get rid of Loki. I was tired of shooting my guns and using my melee. I wanted to have attacking abilities. Ash was perfect for me. Now they made his other abilities seem so useless. They messed up a frame that relied on all 4 abilities.

Bladestorm is still a cruel joke, less effective than Stomp or the bugged out Molecular Prime. Because it still takes to long. Personally, I just want the old Bladestorm back, with the red outlining and several more seconds, because I'd use him for soloing only, meaning no one else would ever get to deal with how slow he is. Because rushing through the game is THE only way to play. Let's make all the environmental artists in DE feel great by completely ignoring all their work, and roflcoptering through the entire game. Because that's how you play Warframe.

Teleport ALWAYS sucked, because the recovery time meant that you got hit several times before you could actually move.

Smokescreen was a joke. The base radius was too low to make it worth it in a party situation, and Loki's Invisibility is superiour. There's a reason why people say 'Loki Master Race'.

Shuriken was probably the only useful power he has. Which really isn't saying much.

Rest in Peace, Ash. The Ninja That Never Was.

Well, unless you're playing in a high level game where Ash has to revisit enemies that aren't dead yet, it only takes a few seconds. I don't necessarily agree that it's less effective than Molecular Prime or Stomp. I've wiped out rooms many times before those frames even came close. I think it's become too strong...and versatile. It can now be used in situations that the old version wasn't capable of, like when a teammate was downed. This means there isn't as much need for Smoke Screen. I don't need to go invisible when I can simply just clear the area before helping a teammate up. This goes for his other 2 abilites too. Like before, I wouldn't dare use Blade Storm while a cryopod was getting swarmed. I had to teleport in and kill with my penta while cloaking myself. It took some brains to know when to use which ability, and that's what I find fun. Now I can just stay in one place and rapeface with BS without much thoughts of the situation. There were times to use 1, 2, 3 and 4, but now, there is no time for 1,2,3 anymore in this rushing game where people love to roflcopter, unless you want to mess around, of course. 4 is all you need now.. *sigh*

So yeah, I agree that since it's good for rushing, the game is less satisfying. I can't enjoy the red-outlined, zoomed-in, epicness of Ash going on a rampage anymore. Might as well remove the animations altogether because the ability is rushed/choppy, and the lame clones are an eyesore. I can't enjoy this frame as a whole because his other 3 abilities are hardly needed to the point that it's better they are left unequipped.

So back to what I was saying, this frame has been butchered. It went from an ninja assassin to a Naruto-type of ninja. It went from a frame that needed all 4 abilities to be decent to a frame that only needs Blade Storm. I find it funny that I, someone who is maining Ash, want the old Blade Storm back when the current one is far more superior. I don't get why they changed him. He was unique for what he was, a solo frame... a badass that takes his time doing his thing. People could have just picked another frame like Nova to clean rooms if they wanted one. Why mess up Ash with these lame clones? Why put the stupid finisher attack after Teleport?( not that it matters now because BS.) These changes are unnecessary, though I like the bleed effect, but changing the ability completely is just horrible.

I would be happy if they...

1) kept the bleed effect and the revisiting enemies that aren't dead.

2) removed the stupid clones for the epicness of the Blade Storm and bring back the need for his other 3 abilities.

3) removed the stupid finisher after teleport. it's seriously unnecessary. The finisher is just a waste of time and is out of place.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Duyet

[(PSN)Strifedecer]

I pretty muck like Ash the way he is. I just want to see Smokescreen duration maxed.

[HAYABU5A]

i just formad everything out except for smokescreen and focused on meleecentric life strike rage hp build

 

wrecks everything, survives anything, ultimate ninja 

[SigweardStoneFist]

Why stagger and kill them when they just can just die? Why teleport to target when they can just die? Teleporting to down players is unnecessary when you can just do the spinning melee attack.

 

It's a playstyle, so you should accept it.

Just don't complain about playstyles, cuz it is silly to be honest.

[RiouHotaru]

Honestly, I only use Teleport (which is more useful than people think) and Smokescreen.  With my build they're both hilariously energy efficient, and with a combination of Rage and Life Strike on a weapon, I can use either my Orthus Prime, my Venka, Dragon Nikana or the Kronen and just go to town.  Shuriken's tracking really only works in PvP, which I don't like in the first place, and Blade Storm cost too much energy.  Sure it wrecks everything up to level 90 but I can Smokescreen and do the same thing.

[EdgeKasim]

see this is exactly why Ash is such a great frame, there are SO many different ways to build him and everyone uses him a little differently...honestly i see some peoples ideas on how to use him ans think theyre nuts but hey thats their build and thats fine my build is completly different and i have no right to tell others theirs is wrong.

 

Ash is by far one of the more balenced frames because of all this, yes hes strong, hes suppose to be afterall, hes a damage frame with good survivalability in both solo and party play, if somone chooses to build him for max efficiency just so they can spam 4 then thats fine, not my idea of good, but still fine, and if they get bored of him because of this choice, then they have nobody to blame but themselves, heck i dont use any of the corrupted mods on my build and have gone for the balenced damage range and defensive route, i get a fair amount of time for my smokescreen and can stun a wide enough range for it to be viable for both killing groups AND saving teamates, his shuriken is great for silent killing if my wep is too noisy OR stacking on bleed to those heavy targets that are alone and would be a waste for bladestorm, teleport doesnt have enough range for me to use it as effectivly as id have liked and all but hey not complaining, and BS is...well im not really sure as i avnt used it in a while as i havnt needed to, my latprim with punchtrhough tends to clear bunched up groups just as quick if not faster all the way up to level 50s with ease and i never really find myself in enough of a bind to think its a necesity.

 

edit - forgot to say i dont actually use his skills all that often either as most of the time they arent needed, but when they are then sure.  and no i dont really care if im at the top of the damage table at the reward screen or not, in fact if i had the option i would remove my contributins screen as it doesnt do any favours, its a waste of time.

 

only reason im really liking this thread is its basicly confirming to DE that ash is good as is and can be used in a number of different ways

Edited September 2, 2014 by EdgeKasim

[Duyet]

It's a playstyle, so you should accept it.

Just don't complain about playstyles, cuz it is silly to be honest.

Yeah, I know we have the choice to not use Blade Storm.. but it's there! I am the type of player that likes to go all out. If your playstyle is not to use Blade Storm, then you might as well use Loki since he has invisibility and teleportation too, along with other utilities. Blade Storm is what makes Ash, Ash. And because of Blade Storm, his other abilities seem underwhelming to me. I don't feel the need to use his other abilities when Blade Storm is available because they are inefficient. I mean, why use Smoke Screen to rez a teammate, when you can clear a room with Blade Storm then rez? It's too convenient to use Blade Storm. If I didn't want to use Blade Storm, I would go Loki.

 

Honestly, I only use Teleport (which is more useful than people think) and Smokescreen.  With my build they're both hilariously energy efficient, and with a combination of Rage and Life Strike on a weapon, I can use either my Orthus Prime, my Venka, Dragon Nikana or the Kronen and just go to town.  Shuriken's tracking really only works in PvP, which I don't like in the first place, and Blade Storm cost too much energy.  Sure it wrecks everything up to level 90 but I can Smokescreen and do the same thing.

Then what is the difference between Loki and Ash when Blade Storm isn't taken into consideration? I am saying Blade Storm is too convenient not to use. Like I said before, if you play Ash without Blade Storm, might as well use Loki because they share similarities with invisibility and teleportation. But if you do play Ash with Blade Storm, then it's better to just run without his other 3 abilities because Blade Storm triumphs them all when you have maxed efficiency. I feel his 4 is too good and it makes his other 3 abilities seem useless, and without his 4 he is just another Loki. 

 

see this is exactly why Ash is such a great frame, there are SO many different ways to build him and everyone uses him a little differently...honestly i see some peoples ideas on how to use him ans think theyre nuts but hey thats their build and thats fine my build is completly different and i have no right to tell others theirs is wrong.

 

Ash is by far one of the more balenced frames because of all this, yes hes strong, hes suppose to be afterall, hes a damage frame with good survivalability in both solo and party play, if somone chooses to build him for max efficiency just so they can spam 4 then thats fine, not my idea of good, but still fine, and if they get bored of him because of this choice, then they have nobody to blame but themselves, heck i dont use any of the corrupted mods on my build and have gone for the balenced damage range and defensive route, i get a fair amount of time for my smokescreen and can stun a wide enough range for it to be viable for both killing groups AND saving teamates, his shuriken is great for silent killing if my wep is too noisy OR stacking on bleed to those heavy targets that are alone and would be a waste for bladestorm, teleport doesnt have enough range for me to use it as effectivly as id have liked and all but hey not complaining, and BS is...well im not really sure as i avnt used it in a while as i havnt needed to, my latprim with punchtrhough tends to clear bunched up groups just as quick if not faster all the way up to level 50s with ease and i never really find myself in enough of a bind to think its a necesity.

 

edit - forgot to say i dont actually use his skills all that often either as most of the time they arent needed, but when they are then sure.  and no i dont really care if im at the top of the damage table at the reward screen or not, in fact if i had the option i would remove my contributins screen as it doesnt do any favours, its a waste of time.

 

only reason im really liking this thread is its basicly confirming to DE that ash is good as is and can be used in a number of different ways

See, that's the problem. I've already mentioned that Blade Storm and maxed efficiency is a problem. I don't like corrupted mods because I think they are too good and make the game less challenging when I am playing as Ash. But they exist, so why should I have to handicap myself when everyone is using corrupted mods? When I am running maxed efficiency with Hydroid, I don't think it's a problem. I use all his abilities because they all are useful. His 4 doesn't make his 1, 2, and 3 useless. But Ash with Fleeting Expertise, his Blade Storm takes a big, fat dump all over his other 3 abilities.

 

Now, it's fine when I am trying to challenge myself with a build without efficiency. But with efficiency, Blade Storm is the only ability that matters. And for everyone that says Blade Storm isn't needed, they might as well play Loki. This wouldn't be an issue if energy effieciency never existed because I wouldn't be able to use Blade Storm as much and there would be times to use his other abilities.

 

I want to list out the points I want to make

 

1) Any player that chooses to play Ash without using Blade Storm, they might as well play Loki.

2) Spammability of Blade Storm makes all 3 other abilities seem useless.

3) Not spamming Blade Storm means that you are not using Ash to the best of his ability. At his best with the spamming of Blade Storm, is he just another 1 trick pony like how Frost was?

4) Either nerf Blade Storm so that his other 3 abilities can shine once more, or change his other 3 abilities so that they would look appealing to use over Blade Storm. Because right now, I don't see the need for his other 3 abilities. I know he is a "damage frame" that is supposed to deal damage. Is that all he really is now? A frame that relies on only 1 of his abilities to live up to his reputation as a "damage frame"?

 

I understand that his abilities are working fine, but I don't think they work well together as a set because Blade Storm with maxed efficiency > everything else he has. I think he needs to be updated because of the fact that his ult is now his strength. Nothing else matters. This is something that I can't say with other frames that I have used. Like Hydroid, his 4 is a good CC, but it has its downside. So I use it alongside with  his 1, 2 , and 3, which works out well. Another example is Excalibur's abilities set. His 1 is good for mobility, 2 for CC, 3 is gimmicky and has uses in situations, and lastly 4 is for damage. Not a single ability that makes his other abilities obsolete. See, with Ash, his Blade Storm makes his other abilities look bad because it has similar effects in which his other 3 abilities offer. Getting into melee range from afar with Teleport isn't needed because you can kill everything from afar with Blade Storm. Using Smoke Screen for safety isn't needed when you can clear the area with Blade Stom to remove the threats. Shuriken has damage an autotargetting, but Blade Storm does that too on higher level. It automatically seeks out everything within range and wipe them all out with at least 4x the damage.

[ashrah]

ash is very balanced.....and very fun frame to play.......have all frames and with ash have most fun...

[Nox-Lamina]

This thread only shows two things. One efficiency mods need a stern looking at if someone can sit down and just keep spamming bladestorm/any ult not dependent on duration over and over.

 

Two your mentality approaching the game is just a tad not representative. For example you say bladestorm makes smokescreen useless. Smokescreen can let you kill more than 15 enemies, it also protects you for longer, and lets you be an asset to a  team by being invisible and reviving and using your speed to run errands. Teleport is a gap closer that lets you get into and out of bigger than 15 enemy engagements, and lets you keep up with the team if hobbled   and as mentioned in the threat gap closes for capture targets. And shuriken is a fly swatter/weak enemy killer.

 

Someone in the threat pointed out you seem to have a min-maxer mentality, they seem to be right because all you're about is efficiency and killing when there is more to the game than that.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Nox-Lamina

[Duyet]

This thread only shows two things. One efficiency mods need a stern looking at if someone can sit down and just keep spamming bladestorm/any ult not dependent on duration over and over.

 

Two your mentality approaching the game is just a tad not representative. For example you say bladestorm makes smokescreen useless. Smokescreen can let you kill more than 15 enemies, it also protects you for longer, and lets you be an asset to a  team by being invisible and reviving and using your speed to run errands. Teleport is a gap closer that lets you get into and out of bigger than 15 enemy engagements, and lets you keep up with the team if hobbled   and as mentioned in the threat gap closes for capture targets. And shuriken is a fly swatter/weak enemy killer.

 

Someone in the threat pointed out you seem to have a min-maxer mentality, they seem to be right because all you're about is efficiency and killing when there is more to the game than that.

People who run Smoke Screen is not playing Ash at his best. That and his other 2 ability slots could be reserved for other mods. The same cannot be said to a frame that has a very powerful ability, like Nova. You can spam M, Prime all day long, but there are times when you really need her other abilities. With Ash, I've never really needed his other abilities.

 

"Smokescreen can let you kill more than 15 enemies."

Blade Storm can too. If the enemies have too many HP, then you can use another Blade Storm. Not only is it faster than meleeing, it also saves you the hassle of having to go after your targets, getting poisoned, etc... And you can play as Loki if you don't need Blade Storm to kill more than 15 enemies.

 

"it also protects you for longer, and lets you be an asset to a  team by being invisible and reviving and using your speed to run errands."

Blade Storm protects you all the way already. You have invulnerablity until everything is dead. There is no threat to be protected from anymore. Again, you can spam Blade Storm to stay in that invincibility mode and Ash will keep on going until the enemies are dead. You are safe all the way. As for your special errands, you need to be more specific. What situation(s) make Smokescreen that much needed?

 

"Teleport is a gap closer that lets you get into and out of bigger than 15 enemy engagements, and lets you keep up with the team if hobbled "

Spamming Blade Storm gets you out of 15 enemy engagements too. With hobbled, Roflcoptering is the answer.

 

"And shuriken is a fly swatter/weak enemy killer."

I said it's just a fun ability to use. It's quite strong, but it doesn't scale as well like Blade Storm, which completely bypasses armor and gets boost from finisher damage on some targets. I can't complain much about this because it's a 1..

[(PSN)Strifedecer]

Someone in the threat pointed out you seem to have a min-maxer mentality, they seem to be right because all you're about is efficiency and killing when there is more to the game than that.

 

This.

THIS.

[StinkyPygmy]

This thread only shows two things. One efficiency mods need a stern looking at if someone can sit down and just keep spamming bladestorm/any ult not dependent on duration over and over.

 

Two your mentality approaching the game is just a tad not representative. For example you say bladestorm makes smokescreen useless. Smokescreen can let you kill more than 15 enemies, it also protects you for longer, and lets you be an asset to a  team by being invisible and reviving and using your speed to run errands. Teleport is a gap closer that lets you get into and out of bigger than 15 enemy engagements, and lets you keep up with the team if hobbled   and as mentioned in the threat gap closes for capture targets. And shuriken is a fly swatter/weak enemy killer.

 

Someone in the threat pointed out you seem to have a min-maxer mentality, they seem to be right because all you're about is efficiency and killing when there is more to the game than that.

 

This.

THIS.

^^^.

OP if you want  too look at it that way then you could say the same thing about pretty much any warframe. I can spam misama all day with a max dmg, rage build till my eyes bleed and have it fall off a little bit earlier then blade storm does. The point being is your min/maxing logic applies to practically anything in WF and most other similar games. Why use blade storm when I could use an orgris with ammo mutation and never run out of ammo whilst clearing entire rooms even faster then bladestorm??

Why use any of valkyrs other abilities when I can hysteria all day everyday?

 

Just because you can doesn't mean you should. I could take a dump in the chair I'm sitting in right now because its overall quicker then getting up, but I'll also have to deal with the mess eventually, so I wont because that would only compound my original problem of creating more work for myself.The over all premise of this thread is flawed and follows similar logic as my ridiculous scenario: Spammimg blade storm takes the fun out for you, but because you also have a mighty powerful need for maximum efficiency and over all DPS, you choose to spam it anyway and making things boring intentionally for yourself despite the fact.

Edited September 4, 2014 by StinkyPygmy

[fatpig84]

Anyone with a damage frame can be a top fragger spamming 4.

But asking for the removal of the shadow clones is STUPID.

 

 

The reason why shadow clones exist is because of defensive objectives that die when someone looks at them funny. BS in it's first iteration was too slow to be used even as a defensive nuke for most Ash users.  The addition of clones also makes ash viable for solo defense which is a good thing.

 

Another reason why shadow clones exist is because if you are team mate is bleeding out with 15 enemies around him, you won't be stuck looking cool for 15 seconds while he bleeds out to death.

 

 

Ultimately BS getting shadow clones was not for you to get more frags, but it was for YOU to better help your team mates.

Ash is always a damage dealer, but dealing damage fast is equally important.

 

That is what prompted the change. If you are too short sighted to see it, sorry, you don't know Ash.

Edited September 4, 2014 by fatpig84

[ra9una]

....No? I'm not an Ash master, but I do really like him, I use all ability's except shurican't and bladestorm (hmm, food for thought no?).

[JacobLittle]

Ash is my favorite warframe and even if his 4 is one of the most OP of the game i don't see where is the problem...

 

I'm playing with max efficiency.

 

1 - Useful and handy, you can spam it, the damage are 500 slash + 175 finisher, enough to help you to kill 1 or 2 enemy easily, WHY would you use 25 energy to kill 2 enemies when you can use 6.25 ??

 

2 - I personally use it to revive teamate, only last 4 second because of the max efficiency but it's enough. Did you ever try to use blade storm before reviving a teamate to clean the room when there are A LOT of enemies in the room ? I tried often to notice my teamate died during the animation of the blade storm.

3 - Doing a finisher attack for free on any target is just amazing, quick and only cost 6.25 energy, plus it can be used in a lot of other moment like going faster, reach the capture target etc...  Once again WHO would use 25 energy (or 100) for a bladestorm to kill some enemies if you can just teleport on them and use melee ?  If you want to waste all your energy pressing 4 every time you see 1 enemy... you're free to do so.

 

To me the only problem is "the other warframes are not powerful enough",especially their ultimate, and not "ash's ultimate is OP".

In this game the only warframes that have a really GOOD ultimate that deserve to be called like this are (in my opinion)

Trinity

loki

ash

Maybe rhino for the CC but definitely not the damage

mirage

 

vauban/nova/nyx are nice in infested...

 

and i haven't tried yet the new oberon's ult and saryn/zephyr/banshee

 

DE better upgrade the warframes ability and the difficulty of the game instead of nerfing the good warframe...

 

Also i forgot this point: almost nobody play ash

Miasa instantly kills everything when you have your duration in the negatives and after going pure battle paladin only using 4th. Got pretty far in infested pluto defense.

[Duyet]

^^^.

OP if you want  too look at it that way then you could say the same thing about pretty much any warframe. I can spam misama all day with a max dmg, rage build till my eyes bleed and have it fall off a little bit earlier then blade storm does. The point being is your min/maxing logic applies to practically anything in WF and most other similar games. Why use blade storm when I could use an orgris with ammo mutation and never run out of ammo whilst clearing entire rooms even faster then bladestorm??

Why use any of valkyrs other abilities when I can hysteria all day everyday?

 

Just because you can doesn't mean you should. I could take a dump in the chair I'm sitting in right now because its overall quicker then getting up, but I'll also have to deal with the mess eventually, so I wont because that would only compound my original problem of creating more work for myself.The over all premise of this thread is flawed and follows similar logic as my ridiculous scenario: Spammimg blade storm takes the fun out for you, but because you also have a mighty powerful need for maximum efficiency and over all DPS, you choose to spam it anyway and making things boring intentionally for yourself despite the fact.

Your example of Saryn almost has the same issue because her 1 and 3 abilities suck. Her molt is quite useful because it removes status conditions. Well, actually.. her contagion ability might go well with miasma when it doesn't scale anymore. I haven't used Saryn for a while now but maybe her Miasma can be used to stun then you can come in with Contagion on and start meleeing? IDK. Miasma, Molt, Contagion seem like a good combo to use when they don't die from Miasma alone. I am going to say that Miasma isn't that great of an ult as Blade Storm because it of its weak damage, short range, and leaving you vulnerable to enemies attacks. Blade Storm don't have these issues at all. I mean, you can't drop a Miasma and run into to rez your teammate when they are a lot of them around. The range is too short, and you're going to get pwned unless you throw a molt in there for diversion. 

 

Valkyr is a bad example. I haven't played this frame much at all, but I know all of her abilities are used especially WITH Hysteria. Ripline for mobility, Warcry for buffs and debuffs, and Paralysis can be handy for that quick stun.

 

Ogris can wipe a room faster than Blade Storm? Most likey not. Blade Storm has range and autotargetting. It seeks out anything within range, which you would spend a lot of time firing the Ogris.

 

It's not really about me spamming Blade Storm. I am just pointing out the fact that the first 3 abilites are useless with Blade Storm around. I want to compare Ash to Frost before the nerf. So people used Frost mainly because of his Snow Globe, hence the title of being a 1 trick pony. What you people are basically telling me is that I shouldn't spam Snow Globe to defend, but rather to use his other 3 weak, useless offensive powers to go out and kill the enemies before they can do harm to the cryopod. Basically, defending without having Snow Globe up most of the time. Spamming Snow Globe to defend is the efficient way of going about it, but you would opt to go kill with Ice Wave and Avalanche. This isn't the most effective way to defend. The same can be said about Ash, though the situation isn't as drastic because failing to defend would result in an instant fail. I want to add that there are a lot of times when I could have saved my teammates with Blade Storm, but I chose not to because I was messing around with his other abilities, which resulted in them getting downed.

 

So...Blade Storm has it all. The other 3 abilities are lacking. That is all. Oh, BTW, your poo example doesn't make sense. The way I see it, going to the toilet everytime to poo is like spamming Blade Storm because it's efficient. You don't need to clean up the mess after. If you decided to stop using the toilet, or to stop using the Blade Storm, then you have to clean up that crap after. It's inefficient. Unless you like to play with poo, then you need to make a better example.

Anyone with a damage frame can be a top fragger spamming 4.

But asking for the removal of the shadow clones is STUPID.

 

 

The reason why shadow clones exist is because of defensive objectives that die when someone looks at them funny. BS in it's first iteration was too slow to be used even as a defensive nuke for most Ash users.

 

The reason why shadow clones exist is because if you are team mate is bleeding out with 15 enemies around him, you won't be stuck looking cool for 15 seconds while he bleeds out to death.

 

 

Ultimately BS getting shadow clones was not for you to get more frags, but it was for YOU to better help your team mates.

Ash is always have being a damage dealer, but dealing damage fast is equally important.

 

That is what prompted the change. If you are too short sighted to see it, sorry, you don't know Ash.

Like I have said in many of my Blade Storm threads, there were times to use Blade Storm, and there were times not to use Blade Storm. People like you caused this to happen by crying to the DE with the shadow clones idea. There were people that wanted a canceling option to Blade Storm to rectify this issue( that could have been avoided if the player knew what he was doing) without changing Blade Storm completely. We liked Ash the way he was. We didn't want him to change. We didn't need him to be another room-clearing frame.

 

Adding a canceling option would suffice. We would just have to cancel Blade Storm, then activate Smoke Screen to rez the fallen comrade. But now, it's so easy to just Blade Storm then run in without Smoke Screen to rez. His other abilities look bad now because of the stupid clones that have taken away what made Blade Storm unique and turn it into a lazy and boring ability.

 

And I knew Ash, thank you. He was my first frame I ever built and used him EFFICIENTLY despite the handicap of the old Blade Storm. I knew what he could do and what his limits were. He was considered to be low-tiered because he was outclassed by Loki in usefulness, but I was fine with that. I liked his theme. They made him a perfect character, then they had to cater to what you people want. People who used him wrong. It's kinda like bringing Ember into a defense mission and then cry that World on Fire isn't good at defending. Ridiculous...

 

Animation takes too long, then add a cancel option. Wants to clean room, then bring Nova. Why did they have to mess with his character by adding in clones, which then make his other abilities look like crap? You need to watch the video "The Call" to understand why the old Blade Storm was what makes Ash, Ash. Notice there isn't a single clone in the video. It shows how awesome he was, going on a rampage on the Grineers with his own 2 hands. No stupid clones in there. 

 

And one more thing, he can pretty much fill in any role right now. Exterminate, defense, capture, interception, the new cryotic thing, Survival... you name it. With the right mods, his Blade Storm wrecks everything. He can even take the jobs that other frames were made for. Bring 4 Ashes into a defend mission and you don't even need a Frost. That's how efficient Blade Storm is now.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Duyet

[StinkyPygmy]

 Venom sucks? No no no. Venom Scales into T4 void almost endlessly. Viral procs can take down lvl 50 gunners in matter of seconds. Venom is Godly. Misasma isnt quite as effective as BD but I can still use it in just about all the same situations you can with BD. Need to res a team mate? Run a duration misama. I can spam miasma for days so anything that doesn't die in one hit will die in the next. Its arguably not as good as BD, but its still easy to make it serve a very similar purpose

OP you're missing the point, I'm not saying you shouldn't spam an ability because its useful. I'm saying that if there is no need to use an ability (eg the situation isn't dire and it won't end int failure or downed team mates, like your snow globe example for instance) then don't. Your example applies to almost every other frame which have skills that can arguably make their other kills redundant. The point is, unless its a matter of a strategic decision or mission failure, there is no reason to use it for the sake of using it. Why spam BD on earth for instance? Doubt you will ever been in a situation where its a tactical choice there. Play for fun. Go for full stealth and teleport around the map backstabbing goons and smoke screening away. Maybe chunk in a BD or two for the lulz.

 

It looks like we have reached an impasse. 

We're just going around in circles. The problem is your love of min/maxing and efficiency.

Not BD.

Sure I'll agree its OP. But it definitely doesn't make everything else redundant. You are choosing to ignore other abilities in favor of blade storming all day, everyday in the name of "not holding back"  or when it wont actually prevent disaster and therefore forcing that feeling of boredom that you with to avoid, on yourself.

 

Stinky out.

Edited September 4, 2014 by StinkyPygmy

[-Etwahl-]

Bladestorm is broken. The damage scale is okay to me, but using this ability on some enemies breaks the game. One of my clan members used Bladestorm on Vay Hek and he couldn't stop hitting Vay Hek. In the end Vay Hek was at 0 hp, but Bladestorm wouldn't stop its animation and Vay Hek came back invincible with 0 hp. Is there a way to fix this?  

[saltshaker42]

many players use Ash with all his ability

Including me. With the exception of teleport. That thing is useless. 

[Tiqalicious]

The fact that you can't stop hitting 4 isn't a problem with the game, it's a problem with the player. If you're not having fun using the corrupted mods then take the damn things off.

[Duyet]

The fact that you can't stop hitting 4 isn't a problem with the game, it's a problem with the player. If you're not having fun using the corrupted mods then take the damn things off.

Regardless of how I choose to play, it's fact that Blade Storm can replace other abilities alone.

 

Shuriken- Damage, auto-targettting

Smoke Screen- Safety, high damage when using melee

Teleport- Range/mobility

Blade Storm- Very high damage, auto-targetting after cast, room-clearing for safety, invulnerability, range

 

The only thing Blade Storm is missing is that it doesn't provide mobility of Teleport, but roflcoptering solves that issue. Need damage? press 4. Want to stay alive? press 4. Need to get rid of something quickly across the map? press 4.

 

Ash is a 1 trick pony now. 3 abilities in 1. Like Frost, you have 4 abilities but only Snow Globe matters. You can do well without the other 3 abilities. That is all, thanks.

[MemeticRepo]

don't you dare nerf blade storm DE!

[-Etwahl-]

Bladestorm can only get you so far though. At higher leveled enemies it becomes useless and you get raped. Furthermore, Ash can't do a T4 defense alone and get up to wave 30, so Bladestorm isn't that OP. Also, whoever said teleport is useless it is not! I like using teleport to get to certain places where the enemy is and execute him with a crit finisher. And you cannot slide slash upward or downward, only forward so teleport is useful in certain situations. 

Edited September 4, 2014 by SirDavid