How About An Auction House?

[mrhat.lf]

If it were to be similar to the Steam Community Market, where we would still use platinum for the currency but be able to trade for stuff, I'd like it. For example, if someone wanted to sell Crimson Dervish for 50p, they could also say they would take Gleaming Talon for an offer instead of the platinum. And for an added touch, WFT.com would be built into the system, so you could look up prices within the game instead of tabbing out or using the Steam Overlay and it would be similar to how you'd look up mods.

[(PSN)Zeylon]

I think a lot of concerns people have about this don't hold water for PS4 players.  On the PS4, there is no mouse or keyboard for most players, and you're left navigating a trade window with an analog stick.  Staring a chatbox or typing sales pitches for trades is dull and tedious even with a keyboard - we don't even have that.  

 

PS4 players don't have to worry about "bots" either since you can't run scripts or futz with the program, and the economy is more locked down than it is in something like WoW.  

We NEED a player market because the system we have on consoles right isn't viable for people tapping away with a dualshock controller, either for typing listings, contacting other players, or finding... anything.  It's tedious and horrible.  A player market is needed.  If PC players love staring at chat boxes and typing with their keyboard, then they can stick with that.  The current system is horrible for console players.

[Kasarian]

Could someone please explain to me how auction house would ruin the economy?

I mean everything is basicly traded for plat right?

Therefore no matter whether the auction house would exists or not people would still have to take out the wallet to buy stuff (and since only bought plat can be traded).

 

To me it seems like a good idea beacuse:

-as said before, typing offfers over and over again is either dull or very problematic not to mention you have to sit and stare at trade chat to see anything usefull

-no "waiting forever" for someone to reply to your offer, connectivity to dojo wouldn't be a problem (had few cases where guy couldn't come or other way around and the deal was off) and no dealing with A******s (there are very few of them but man theyre something)

 

 

There could be something like this:

-every item would have next to it listed the Average Price it went down by (like Serration once sold for 40, and once for 80 so the average it shows would be 60)

-next to it Recommended Prices - players vote how much the item is worth, one vote for a week lets say, and you have to be of some Mastery Rank to be able to do that

On the other hand this could be easily abused by "power traders" by selling the items amongst each other on high prices or simply inputing exagarated prices.

 

What are your thoughts on that guys?

[RoboDoge]

Apparently, DE is not fond of Auction house also or we would have one already.

 

 

Think about it in this way. If there was an auction house, new players could buy everything from the start ( not saying that they cannot do that now if they have Plat ). Instead they have to raise their MR and play the game in the process.

[kuri99]

I think a lot of concerns people have about this don't hold water for PS4 players.  On the PS4, there is no mouse or keyboard for most players, and you're left navigating a trade window with an analog stick.  Staring a chatbox or typing sales pitches for trades is dull and tedious even with a keyboard - we don't even have that.  

 

PS4 players don't have to worry about "bots" either since you can't run scripts or futz with the program, and the economy is more locked down than it is in something like WoW.  

We NEED a player market because the system we have on consoles right isn't viable for people tapping away with a dualshock controller, either for typing listings, contacting other players, or finding... anything.  It's tedious and horrible.  A player market is needed.  If PC players love staring at chat boxes and typing with their keyboard, then they can stick with that.  The current system is horrible for console players.

No. Just because a console is more fiddly to work with doesnt mean you cant write a script for it. PS4 and Xbone players are not immune to the potential epidemic. If you show there is money to be made botters will jump on the opportunity. However even if they dont write scripts for bots many foriegn countries (ok lets not kid ourselves the USA would be doing this too if they thought they could make a buck without looking like evil overlords) will simply use prisoners and/or the lowest class as slave labor. I recall a story from a Chinese prisoner who was forced to play wow for hours each day and when he didnt meet his daily quota he was beaten by the guards and denied food/water. From where I stand, these alleged actions are human rights violations. I certainly never want to encourage that

 

Im not against improving the current system to be more user friendly on consoles and PCs though.

[(PSN)TheArrowOfGod]

My friend made an intersting point, maybe have a system where we put something we want to trade for a certain price, and if someone accepts it does an auto trade so even if you're offline you can sell what you put up and they don't have to wait for invites and such. Either take it for your price or it doesn't get sold. maybe have a system where you can scroll through all thats being offered instead of all caps in trade hoping someone reads your paragraph long post of all the stuff you want to sell. Also helps with congestion so my post doesn't stay for .3 of a second before being shot up and away because someone is trying to sell stuff so fast. Just an idea.

[(PSN)Zeylon]

No. Just because a console is more fiddly to work with doesnt mean you cant write a script for it. PS4 and Xbone players are not immune to the potential epidemic. If you show there is money to be made botters will jump on the opportunity. However even if they dont write scripts for bots many foriegn countries (ok lets not kid ourselves the USA would be doing this too if they thought they could make a buck without looking like evil overlords) will simply use prisoners and/or the lowest class as slave labor. I recall a story from a Chinese prisoner who was forced to play wow for hours each day and when he didnt meet his daily quota he was beaten by the guards and denied food/water. From where I stand, these alleged actions are human rights violations. I certainly never want to encourage that

 

Im not against improving the current system to be more user friendly on consoles and PCs though.

 

Your theoretical issue with a player market is that someone will mod the new consoles and/or force Chinese slave laborers to play Warframe to earn plat to exchange on some black market?  For starters, the PS3 went years before being modded.  And for the latter... they could already do that, assuming it's profitable.  There's nothing stopping them from using the lame-&#!, horribly broken on consoles, trade-chat to get plat right now.  That's right, the same system you're currently in favor of totally supports slave labor directly.

 

The fact that someone, somewhere, somehow can for some reason be exploited or abused for profit is no reason to make a supported process unnecessarily tedious and painful for players.  By your rationale, you could lock out keyboard support on PCs and force them to use a T9 interface with mouseclicks to make things less convenient for people trying to exploit slave labor from advertising in the current trade channel.  

 

OR... and this is just a shot in the dark, we could have a system that isn't tedious and painful.  That is, DE could focus on having a pleasant customer experience rather than worrying about some theoretical scenario where people will do stupid things beyond their control.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

I want to ask the people to look up at my first comment in this thread. I've suggested an interesting idea in there.

Most MMOs default to a fixed price in auction houses but have a bid option for the truly rare items, such as arcane helmets. This is how an AH in WF should work.

[Doom_Bunny]

everyone wants except the ones that currently make a fortune by ripping off new players

People would be ripped off even more because the auctioneer could just sit there watching the price go up ripping many people off. Then there is the problem where your about to make a trade and someone butts in offering a ridiculous (high or low) amount stealing the trade.

 

 

example; imagine a mod you've been farming for and you're about to make the deal for it when someone comes in offers a price just lower or higher then your's and the dealer accepts it, you would be pretty ripped off.

 

Auction houses are a bad mojo in game such as Warframe, simply because it will make the game economic go bananas.

However, if we're talking about a marketplace sort of area for example in the hubs, where people can put their items for a fixed amount of plat or other item with equal value, then theoretically we'll have trade chat inside those hubs without all the spamming. I am referring to personal kiosks.

I like this idea, this way people could walk up and by an item for the price the seller has put up. Having a maximum price prevents "rip offs", a set price for a day prevents people from going back on their word, and since it's only for a day the seller can change the price if they didn't sell. This also fixes people coming in and stealing your trade replaces it with "first in first served".

 

Most MMOs default to a fixed price in auction houses but have a bid option for the truly rare items, such as arcane helmets. This is how an AH in WF should work.

If there is one thing people should know about DE is that they strive to break from what regular MMOs do. So no warframe should not work like any other MMO because that would ruin warframe.

Edited September 14, 2014 by Postal_pat

[Tulzscha]

Please read and understand:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/204165-read-before-posting-threads-what-is-and-isnt-general-discussion/

 

Moved to the proper section.

[kuri99]

Your theoretical issue with a player market is that someone will mod the new consoles and/or force Chinese slave laborers to play Warframe to earn plat to exchange on some black market?  For starters, the PS3 went years before being modded.  And for the latter... they could already do that, assuming it's profitable.  There's nothing stopping them from using the lame-@$$, horribly broken on consoles, trade-chat to get plat right now.  That's right, the same system you're currently in favor of totally supports slave labor directly.

 

The fact that someone, somewhere, somehow can for some reason be exploited or abused for profit is no reason to make a supported process unnecessarily tedious and painful for players.  By your rationale, you could lock out keyboard support on PCs and force them to use a T9 interface with mouseclicks to make things less convenient for people trying to exploit slave labor from advertising in the current trade channel.  

 

OR... and this is just a shot in the dark, we could have a system that isn't tedious and painful.  That is, DE could focus on having a pleasant customer experience rather than worrying about some theoretical scenario where people will do stupid things beyond their control.

Those arent my only concerns about botters/farmers as I mentioned in an earlier post. Escalation is a real issue that many games face and it forces companies to put time, money, and personell toward issues that cant be fixed. An auction house will only enable these people while giving the playerbase a small amount of convienance that they really dont need. The trade system as is is still functional. Im open to ideas that improve the current trade system but IMO an auction house is more trouble then its worth

[(PSN)Zeylon]

Those arent my only concerns about botters/farmers as I mentioned in an earlier post. Escalation is a real issue that many games face and it forces companies to put time, money, and personell toward issues that cant be fixed. An auction house will only enable these people while giving the playerbase a small amount of convienance that they really dont need. The trade system as is is still functional. Im open to ideas that improve the current trade system but IMO an auction house is more trouble then its worth

 

You may find trading fine - you're not on consoles.  Try spending an hour or two in trade chat with a smaller window that you can only access by typing on a controller.  Even with some amount of memory in the predictive dictionary, typing out a sales post isn't quick.  I'm saying it's not about "convenience" - it's about making it functional on a basic level where it's not a pain in the @$$ to trade. It is needed - it's a basic UI quality of life issue.  The trade chat is painful enough before bringing in the process of typing out messages to a person to arrange the finer points of a transaction, and determine where you might be meeting.  It's like if the calculator on your smart phone required a 38-key-press process to be opened - can it be used?  Yes.  Is it in an acceptable state for being used?  No.  

 

This is aside from the simple logistical fact that you only have access to items/market of whenever you're able to play.  Can you only play mornings before work?  Can you only play late at night?  Can you only play a half-hour at time?  A time-restricted system is always going to necessarily punish people that have constraints on the windows in which they can play.

 

I already suggested a player market.  There's no need for an "auction" function at all. It's simple, you limit transactions in the same way trades are currently limited, you charge a credit fee for listing, and you limit listings by mastery rank (1 for every 3, 4, 5 levels.. whatever).  So, a max-ranked person might have 5 or 4 simultaneous listings possible.  You can access the player market listings by using the current trade kiosks, or from some similarly designed "decorations" and/or a kiosk in the upcoming hubs.  The same clan trade-tax can apply, as can the credit transaction fees inherent in current trades.

 

Any person looking to sell would have a hard cap on the number of listings, preventing singular accounts from mass-sales.  They'd also need to have accrued substantial in-game time to get there (as Mastery rank 15/16 does) and that's aside from any farming-time and needed credits.  The limits/mechanics already exist to make it unwieldy for farmers, but useful for players.

Edited September 14, 2014 by (PS4)Zeylon

[SergeiTheBeast]

The trade system needs some extending but I'm very cautious when it comes to any sort of auction house type situations, People can dominate them as happened on wow, if there's a real money side (plat for us) like there was in D3 it could literally KILL the game (I saw that coming when D3 announced a real money side and was right)

 

I can't say I have the solution but auction house? Right now, I'm gonna say no.

[Troll_Logic]

Simply put - It'll screw with the economy.

Trading prices are player set right now.

A prime example would be the diablo 3 auction (hehe. Prime example...)

While i'd like to see an auction house i believe it'd be too complicated for the devs to monitor transactions. 

Also , think of it this way.

New player comes in. Doesn't have to look or actually play the game to acquire rare parts or mods.

*flips open wallet* annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd were done.

 

How can it screw with the economy?  It'll drive prices down.  That's it.

 

New players can do the exact same thing now.  How many times do you see someone saying "WTB (MAX ONLY) Serration, Narrow, Hornet's nest, and so on..."  All the time.  That's what they are doing now.  Just make the trades the same way they are now.  Each level only gets a certain number of trades.

 

The current trading system right now is crap.  Really crap.

 

1)  You decide you want to buy something

2)  You post you want to buy something.

3)  Now people have to deal with that fast scrolling wall of text to find something and 50% of the messages are 5 LINES OF CAP TEXT.

4)  If someone answers, 90% of the time it's some variation of "I got that."

5)  So you have to type "How much?"

6)  95% of the time the reply is "Make an offer"

7)  So now the price haggling starts

8)  By some miracle if a price is reached, a decision has to be made which dojo.  Many times this is a hassle

9)  Meanwhile both people are generally still negotiating with others about the same item so there is 30 seconds to several minutes between each step

10)  So someone goes to a dojo (WHERE THEY CAN'T STAY AND CHECK THEIR INVENTORY.  WTF?) and invites the other

11)  Usually after a "failed to join session" or two, the guy joins

12)  Now both players have to go to the station

13)  Each has to put in their items and usually there are bugs in displaying the items

14)  Each one has to accept many confirmations

15)  Trade done finally

 

 

Now with an auction house or better yet, a simple market.

 

1)  Player goes to the market

2)  Player searches for the item

3)  Player finds lowest price

4)  Player buys item

 

That's it.

 

There are no downsides to a market.

[Zhyzak]

Auction houses are a bad mojo in game such as Warframe, simply because it will make the game economic go bananas.

See, that's the exact opposite of what would actually happen. People "get scared" of the thought of an auctionhouse due to misinformation like that.

 

The economy is bananas right now because people don't know what something is actually worth offhand. Sure, there's resources like wftrading and asking clanmates (and Alliance chat is almost always filled with "What's X worth" spam)... But it's not reliable for prices and subject to rapidly changing.

 

Having an auctionhouse lets the market stabilize according to supply and demand. If something is a common drop and people are listing a ton of them (and undercutting as a result), this drives the price down a bit, which if it's a common item is how it should be.

 

everyone wants except the ones that currently make a fortune by ripping off new players

^ And that's the result, and why some people don't want to see an automated system. It wouldn't negatively affect anything other than their ability to overprice/gouge unsuspecting people.

 

If an item is actually rare in the drop table and there's not many for sale on an auctionhouse, of course the price will still be high -- it will be exactly what it's worth, to all buyers. That's fairness.

 

Currently, this one-on-one system fluctuates prices too much. What some shrewd buyer might get for 5p, somebody might later that same day get suckered into paying 15p for. And even if that might work to my advantage sometimes, I'm always more in favor of fairness for everyone. We need a real market.

 

And like others have said, admittedly, it would cause prices to drop a bit simply because of ease of access, more items would be for sale. Not everybody has time to sit in Trading chat for hours paste-spamming their list of items hoping for a bite. But people can easily check the going price on an auctionhouse, list their item, and then go do whatever they have to do (or better yet, actually play the damn game, instead of lurking in a chat.)

Edited September 14, 2014 by Zhyzak

[Doom_Bunny]

^ And that's the result, and why some people don't want to see an automated system. It wouldn't negatively affect anything other than their ability to overprice/gouge unsuspecting people.

 

If an item is actually rare in the drop table and there's not many for sale on an auctionhouse, of course the price will still be high -- it will be exactly what it's worth, to all buyers. That's fairness.

 

Currently, this one-on-one system fluctuates prices too much. What some shrewd buyer might get for 5p, somebody might later that same day get suckered into paying 15p for. And even if that might work to my advantage sometimes, I'm always more in favor of fairness for everyone. We need a real market.

 

And like others have said, admittedly, it would cause prices to drop a bit simply because of ease of access, more items would be for sale. Not everybody has time to sit in Trading chat for hours paste-spamming their list of items hoping for a bite. But people can easily check the going price on an auctionhouse, list their item, and then go do whatever they have to do (or better yet, actually play the damn game, instead of lurking in a chat.)

You could just do the same with a market place an cut out the whole bidding part that causes many problems. As seen in many of the posts of this thread people aren't worried about rip offs in the current trading but what they are worried about is the many problems an auction house brings.

 

A market place on the other hand is "free and open" to all. It removes all aspects of biding and ripping off by placing in an maximum amount a seller can set. The set price allows a player to walk up and buy the item from the seller, without having to bid against another player.

[Mokkania]

Auction houses are a bad mojo in game such as Warframe, simply because it will make the game economic go bananas.

However, if we're talking about a marketplace sort of area for example in the hubs, where people can put their items for a fixed amount of plat or other item with equal value, then theoretically we'll have trade chat inside those hubs without all the spamming. I am referring to personal kiosks.

I never ever understood that "it's going to screw the economy" line or something, it feels to me that people are trying to make a shortcuts based on some exemples that issues from different game where each has different circumstances and different Trading House System, in addition to having a biased "economy" point of view.

 

 

Anyway following the OP it doesn't have to be a trading house but most of theses thread ask for something else than the current trading chat, marketplace or something, isn't that what might be coming soon?

[BigDuckIsSwagInTown]

imo the problem is that with an auction house there woukd not be the possibility to trade thing for other things, like you won't be able to trade a mod for a prime part, so it would be reserved for people with plats.

[(PSN)Zeylon]

imo the problem is that with an auction house there woukd not be the possibility to trade thing for other things, like you won't be able to trade a mod for a prime part, so it would be reserved for people with plats.

 

You can keep the current trade system alongside a market. 

[holyicon]

Auction NO.

Why? Because you are probably thinking of an "open outcry" auction where a player puts a single item up for bid and then other players raise the bid offer until either the timer expires or a reserve is reached.

HELL FRIGGING NO.

There are only two kinds of player markets that would work for WarFrame.

-[ 1 ]-

Blind Reserve Auction:
This is where a Seller sets a reserve for the item they are placing and is stays listed for a number of days (usually 7 to 14). Additional listing fees are paid in Credits.
Meanwhile a Buyer may bid against ALL matching items as many time as they like.

If the Buyer bids higher than any of reserved prices for that item, they win the item with highest reserve below the bid.

The Seller of the sold item is then paid the Buyer's bid via the mail.

Note: Each Mod would be placed in a group with similarly ranked copies of that mod.
Such as an "Overextended (UR)" group, "Overextented (R1)" and so on.




EXAMPLE:

A seller places a "Overextended (UR)" in up for sale with a blind reserve of 15p.

There are already 7 "Overextended (UR)" up for sale with blind reserves of: 12p, 13p, 15p, 16p, 20p, 20p and 35p.

A buyer comes along and selects "Overextended" from the list and bids 7p.
They win nothing.
They up their bid to 8p.
Win nothing.
Up to 9p, and so on, until they bid 12p and win the "Overextended (UR)" listed at 12p.
The Seller receives 12p in the mail.

Another player come along and bids 50p right out of the gate.
They win the 35p reserved mod, but pay their full 50p bid.
The Seller receives 50p in the mail.

Another player comes along and bids 20p.
They win the OLDEST of the two mods listed for 20p.
The Seller receives 20p in the mail.

To help regulate prices, a history of the previous 10 sales is kept and shown to all potential buyers. It shows the price PAID for a mod, who bought it and who the seller was.



-[ 2 ]-

Straight Consignment:
A seller lists a mod/blueprint for a set amount of P, and pays a listing fee for however long they wish to have it up for sale (3,7,11 days, etc..).

A Buyer looks at the lists, finds the mod they want for the price they want, and buys it.

The seller is paid via the mail.

No example needed.

[(PSN)Zeylon]

-[ 2 ]-

Straight Consignment:

A seller lists a mod/blueprint for a set amount of P, and pays a listing fee for however long they wish to have it up for sale (3,7,11 days, etc..).

A Buyer looks at the lists, finds the mod they want for the price they want, and buys it.

The seller is paid via the mail.

No example needed.

 

I don't see why anyone would even want an auction.  A 'straight consignment' (I'd just call it a regular market, really) is a perfectly good solution to the current issues our system has.  It's relatively simple to program as well.  I wouldn't want the devs OR the players to have to deal with the complications of any actual auction system.

[kuri99]

You may find trading fine - you're not on consoles.  Try spending an hour or two in trade chat with a smaller window that you can only access by typing on a controller.  Even with some amount of memory in the predictive dictionary, typing out a sales post isn't quick.  I'm saying it's not about "convenience" - it's about making it functional on a basic level where it's not a pain in the @$$ to trade. It is needed - it's a basic UI quality of life issue.  The trade chat is painful enough before bringing in the process of typing out messages to a person to arrange the finer points of a transaction, and determine where you might be meeting.  It's like if the calculator on your smart phone required a 38-key-press process to be opened - can it be used?  Yes.  Is it in an acceptable state for being used?  No.  

 

This is aside from the simple logistical fact that you only have access to items/market of whenever you're able to play.  Can you only play mornings before work?  Can you only play late at night?  Can you only play a half-hour at time?  A time-restricted system is always going to necessarily punish people that have constraints on the windows in which they can play.

 

I already suggested a player market.  There's no need for an "auction" function at all. It's simple, you limit transactions in the same way trades are currently limited, you charge a credit fee for listing, and you limit listings by mastery rank (1 for every 3, 4, 5 levels.. whatever).  So, a max-ranked person might have 5 or 4 simultaneous listings possible.  You can access the player market listings by using the current trade kiosks, or from some similarly designed "decorations" and/or a kiosk in the upcoming hubs.  The same clan trade-tax can apply, as can the credit transaction fees inherent in current trades.

 

Any person looking to sell would have a hard cap on the number of listings, preventing singular accounts from mass-sales.  They'd also need to have accrued substantial in-game time to get there (as Mastery rank 15/16 does) and that's aside from any farming-time and needed credits.  The limits/mechanics already exist to make it unwieldy for farmers, but useful for players.

It sounds like were basicly on the same page then. Expansion of trading tools is something I support but this thread was talking specifically about an auction house which I feel is a bad idea for a variety of reasons. That and I think you were absolutely wrong to say consoles wouldnt have the same bot problems if an auction house was added

 

That said, expansion of trading tools is another discussion entirely. If you'ld like to make another thread to gather ideas and input about such tools I'd be happy to participate in that discussion

[Troll_Logic]

But there is a huge difference between a market and an auction house.

I agree that the current trading system is not optimal and could be improved upon.

But i really do not believe an auction house fits with Warframe.

 

 

Sure, in practice.  However, I think the vast majority of people are using them in interchangeably while meaning a market.

[dukelego]

trade forum like steams would be better

[(PSN)Zeylon]

Sure, in practice.  However, I think the vast majority of people are using them in interchangeably while meaning a market.

 

This, exactly.  I think people are familiar with the term "Auction House" from WoW because it's the game with such a mechanic that has the most market penetration.  I think people are most interested in the aggregated item listings and convenience factor rather than the "auction/bid" function that particular institution has.  Even games with particularly robust markets/economies (like EVE online) don't necessarily do an auction thing.  People lose track of what "auctions" actually are, and just assume player market = auction house I think.

 

I played Everquest back in the days people would hang out in a certain area, and just broadcast sales to the entire zone.  Trading required tracking them down in person and swapping items.  Eventually an expansion brought a player market.  I never thought I'd be backtracking to a similar system without an actual market that involves staring at a chat box instead of actually playing the game.  Much less, without a keyboard... :/