Changing Warframes In Game - Should De Show Us How Its Done?

[ndantony]

I'm thinking of the Dead Space suit change animations. Where Isaac goes into a store kiosk and there's a brief animation of a suit change.

Sound cool on the surface but may not be easily applied to multiple co-op game WF.

In Dead Space it's a single play game with one single protagonist. He is Issac and is it. But for WF... I can see you can either make to have one guy per suit, but would that be Rhino for Rhino, etc., or what race will he be or gender?? And may make argument showing the person before frame somewhat null.... Or, customization with race and gender, class like MMORPG? ...maybe like Destiny, but that has no complete covered frame...

[arch111]

Would you be against both genders?

To sort this out quickly?

Maby a plat only option though.

[Snydrex]

And yet again....

Implying that this hypothetical energy-Tenno, whatever it was before attaining its current state, must inhabit a physical form of specific female shape to utilise its powers to manipulate heat and a specific male shape to manipulate water.

This obviously raises a whole slew of related questions, cursory examination of which suggest they just lead into a morass of handwave ad-hoc excuses and an awful mess.

 

I repeat, "makes no sense whatsoever". I'd rather just apply Occam's Razor here and go with the obvious enough explanation of Gameplay And Story Segregation necessary mainly due to the "character independent" way progress in the game is traced. We're already accepting the essential immortality of the named boss characters as "one of those MMO things", not seeing why tortuously convoluted theorycrafting is required with this one.

 

-Viridias

[Damuranashi]

tenno are energy

They aren't.

[Tesseract_The_Pariah]

They aren't.

"We've been wrong all this time. Tenno do not control the Warframe's divine energy. The Tenno ARE that energy. Each Warframe you control is merely a glass shaping your furious light."

~Vor, Third Mission of Vor's Prize

Edited September 15, 2014 by Gaminus

[PsychedelicSnake]

"We've been wrong all this time. Tenno do not control the Warframe's divine energy. The Tenno ARE that energy. Each Warframe you control is merely a glass shaping your furious light."

~Vor, Third Mission of Vor's Prize

I like to believe it is metaphor and figurative language. Like he is saying we are the energy that powers the Warframe, which seems to be backed up by other lore in the codex.

 

That being said, it's nothing conclusive for either side. Everything we have is theory, and anyone that says there is concrete, 100% factual, cannot-be-disproven proof is a dirty liar or ignorant, not saying that is what you are of course.

 

Personally, I like to think... why not both? Why can't some Tenno be corporeal and some be energy? Heck, why not have some that are both? Nothing stopping that from happening as far as I can tell.

[RiouHotaru]

Personally, I think it's a person inside a suit:

 

- Hayden Tenno was the "first" and he was clearly a physical, human being.

 

- DE confirmed that the Tenno have "eyes" during a Devstream where Alad V's comments about not having eyes to see through the helmet came up.

 

- Ember/Ember Prime's Codex entry clearly has a physical, human being (a young girl in fact) burning an officer's face

 

- If it were a non-corporeal entity, then why would airborne toxins or the vacuum of space have any effect?

 

Of course, the idea that the Tenno are merely energy-beings inhabiting a shell certainly fits with the notion of a 'one-size-fits-all', explaining why the same Tenno that uses Excalibur can also use Ember, etc, etc.

 

But we'd need DE to confirm/deny.

[Deidaku]

Maybe in some kind of lroe related cutscene 

otherwise nope

[D3ST]

Never understood why you guys think its one person using different frames..

And changing sex along the way??

 

Its clearly just us controlling different people/tenno, using different frames..

 

Edit*

and the comments about the "Eyeless slug" was solely directed at the Lotus.. not the Tenno..

Edited September 15, 2014 by D3ST

[RustyNaps]

I love how no one reads excal prime lore or any other Warframe lore. The game mechanics should never be intertwined with lore. 

 

Each Warframe is a suit made for a Tenno with a CERTAIN MUTATION caused by VOID EXPOSURE.

 

Tenno wear Warframes custom built for their certain powers so they can contain and control them. Without that certain suit the Tenno would have no control of their powers, like shown in Ember primes logs where a child Ember accidentally burned that woman's face. 

 

With that said and Volt cannot wear a Ember Warframe. 1. Because Volt is a male, 2. Because Volt has electricity powers and that Ember Warframe was specially designed for containing and channeling Embers fire powers. 

 

And no. we aren't spirits, we aren't balls of energy (Vor was being metaphorical; we Tenno CONTAIN pure energy but we AREN'T pure energy), and we aren't shape-shifters. We are Orokin humans twisted and tainted by the Voids oddly mutative properties. Re-purposed as bio weapons.

 

Stop putting game mechanics into Lore. They don't mix. 

[arch111]

This depends on your understanding and belief of what the orokin did.

They build frames around the twisted demons, to channel their affliction. That do not say one tenno can only do one thing.

I believe they used the warframe to tune into the void energy, but it is the warframe that makes the power.

Like the codex said, Excalibur was the first warframe, but it would make sense that the orokin studied the tenno to find out how to channel the powers they wanted.

Edited September 15, 2014 by arch111

[DeadX65]

They aren't.

prove they aren't,

 

some people love throwing around occam's razor, simplest solution is from the latest lore tidbit, they're energy. it solves every single problem and ONLY conflicts with previous (older) lore. not that any lore in this game is coherent at all. but, i go with the latest as it seems DE is attempting to bring together the disparate pieces.

 

energy is essentially immortal, which tenno seem to be another point in towards that lore tidbit. the frame can be damaged, but the tenno within no matter what always lives to fight another day. the frames themselves are living in a sense, they bleed and breathe. combination of organics and technology.

 

and no one, i mean NO ONE has bothered to cover how we build frames, that IF they are suits (rofl considering how deformed some are) and there's a human inside...are we frankensteins putting together the body inside at the same time we make the frames? or does the pilot magically appear? all clones remember, since there are multiple versions of ember, rhino, etc and 4 identical frames can be in one group.

 

which is another lore tidbit about how tenno work together in cells you prefer to ignore which means that for some reason in the lore there's no inconsistency with identical frames being together at once.

 

formerly human, exposed to the void, energy now. do not get why people think hordes of pilots all frankensteined together surgically deformed, and in some cases missing a HEAD makes more sense than the simplest solution that covers everything.

[vaugahn]

prove they aren't,

 

The one piece of lore people latch on to for the tenno-are-energy theory is obviously metaphorical.

 

Also, the warframes themselves are referred to as exo-suits. Exo implies there's something underneath. If the tenno were just energy guiding a combat body, calling the warframes exo-suits and armor wouldn't really make sense. There's also the ember codex to consider.

 

I can see where people are coming from with them being energy, but I think it's much more likely they're deformed/mutated humanoids.

[arch111]

I think the tenno are clones of the original returnees who were lost in the void.

These were rejects, misstakes, twisted. Sound a bit like infested.

[Snydrex]

-snip-

Until Tenno are set in stone, nothing's convincing me they're energy, humans, robots, a virus, or anything else. It's up for debate, sure, but as long as these plotholes remain, there will always be an opposing argument.

 

Reasoning spoiler'ed for forum space.

 

If the latest explanation solves every single problem, Why does, in fact does it conflict with previous lore? And why, pray tell, can tenno die from bleeding? If it's because their Warframes are organic, Where's the proof of that? What did DE mean when they say that Tenno have eyes? Why does Lech Krill say there is flesh beneath warframes? If Occam's razor is now void because of the mirage quest, then why do most Tenno require neural sensors? That implies they at least have a physical brain. And why do some NOT?

 

At 38:28, It is stated that the tenno's appearance underneath their warframes may change. This could mean different energy, different faces, different anything. But most of all, This implies that DE is still trying to figure out exactly what Tenno are. It's crap like this that makes me NOT want to pick a side, or a conclusion.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Snydrex

[Acos]

Vor didn't say Tenno are made out of energy, he said that Tenno are the energy that powers the suit, not the other way around. The people inside the warframe are what powers the magic. It's the specific reason why Vor has an interest in us to begin with: he wants to unravel our DNA to save his dying species, as we are not only very powerful but effectively immortal. Ember's lore entry seems to support this as the ship has children that are throwing around fireballs and the like; they probably weren't energy or the character in the short story wouldn't have described them as children and they obviously didn't have warframes for the same reason.  

Most of the tidbits of lore we have gotten seem to support the idea that Tenno are individual beings, and that there can be multiples of the same "kind" of Tenno (according to Ember's Lore). There is more than one Excalibur, but Excalibur does not change into Rhino, and Rhino certainely doesn't change into Nova. 

[Riate]

Hell no. It would ruin the debate many people enjoy having of what are the Tenno. Especially for me since I hate the theory of One Tenno, Many Suits. 

[AlphaHorseman]

tenno are energy, frame changes are fast and effortless.

 

no surgery required to fit those inhuman frames, bounce between male/female archetype frames. extremely distorted frames no problem.

 

if you think tenno aren't energy, you're cruel and sadistic...and have to explain hydroid turning into water.

Then what about the bleed proc?

[DeadX65]

The one piece of lore people latch on to for the tenno-are-energy theory is obviously metaphorical.

 

Also, the warframes themselves are referred to as exo-suits. Exo implies there's something underneath. If the tenno were just energy guiding a combat body, calling the warframes exo-suits and armor wouldn't really make sense. There's also the ember codex to consider.

 

I can see where people are coming from with them being energy, but I think it's much more likely they're deformed/mutated humanoids.

 

how exactly is it obviously metaphorical? vor doesn't talk that way, he's direct. and you evidently didn't see the bit that all of DE's lore thus far is inconsistent.

Until Tenno are set in stone, nothing's convincing me they're energy, humans, robots, a virus, or anything else. It's up for debate, sure, but as long as these plotholes remain, there will always be an opposing argument.

 

Reasoning spoiler'ed for forum space.

 

If the latest explanation solves every single problem, Why does, in fact does it conflict with previous lore? And why, pray tell, can tenno die from bleeding? If it's because their Warframes are organic, Where's the proof of that? What did DE mean when they say that Tenno have eyes? Why does Lech Krill say there is flesh beneath warframes? If Occam's razor is now void because of the mirage quest, then why do most Tenno require neural sensors? That implies they at least have a physical brain. And why do some NOT?

 

At 38:28, It is stated that the tenno's appearance underneath their warframes may change. This could mean different energy, different faces, different anything. But most of all, This implies that DE is still trying to figure out exactly what Tenno are. It's crap like this that makes me NOT want to pick a side, or a conclusion.

 

once again regarding lore, has DE laid out anything really consistently? vor and the prologue as i stated in the first post on this page seems to be DE's attempt to bring consistency and explanations for what the tenno are.

Then what about the bleed proc?

you didn't read my first post on this page either, i stated that warframes are semi-living creatures on their own, a mix of cybernetics and organics. organics bleed.

 

end replies:

 

why do you all bother to quote and reply when you don't even bother to read?

 

and once again, you ignore the biggest issue

MAKING WARFRAMES

so are we frankensteins as you seem to suggest? we assemble and bring to life the pilot/frame all at once? we're little gods? or does the pilot magically appear? how many hordes of clones are there now according to the one frame one pilot theory eh? and evidently in this universe, genetic degradation is a given, grineer, kubrow, so tenno would suffer from it as well being clones. holding onto that theory brings up more issues than it solves. if we can't fix the kubrow, then we can't fix cloned tenno.

 

and i don't see anyone giving us daily injections of stabilizers...

 

perhaps the term energy is misleading or infers a state that's not easily understood...think of ghosts, spirits if you prefer...comes down to the same thing. a being that possesses no material substance but can possess and control the specially designed warframes.

 

the frames were originally suits, originally piloted by humans...that was a looooong time ago. this is a different era, and things change.

Edited September 16, 2014 by DeadX65

[Xana69]

NO ........

[vaugahn]

how exactly is it obviously metaphorical? vor doesn't talk that way, he's direct. and you evidently didn't see the bit that all of DE's lore thus far is inconsistent.

 

Okay, read it again:

 

"We've been wrong all this time. Tenno do not control the Warframe's divine energy. The Tenno ARE that energy. Each Warframe you control is merely a glass shaping your furious light."

 

Are the warframes literally glass? Now, the term "energy" is used there in reference to the "divine energy" of the warframes. If that's not metaphor I'll eat my own foot. He's saying that the power comes from the tenno, not the warframe. Nothing more.

 

perhaps the term energy is misleading or infers a state that's not easily understood...think of ghosts, spirits if you prefer...comes down to the same thing. a being that possesses no material substance but can possess and control the specially designed warframes.

 

the frames were originally suits, originally piloted by humans...that was a looooong time ago. this is a different era, and things change.

 

Err...have you ever considered maybe building warframes is just a gameplay thing? Like, similar to how unique boss characters keep on resurrecting themselves no matter how many times we kill them?

[Farlander]

Well, firstly, when Vor says, "Each Warframe YOU control" he pretty much spells it all out, as far as the current competing theories go.

Firstly, the warframes are controlled. Secondly, multiple warframes can be controlled by a singular entity. What does this mean? This essentially represents a separation of Tenno and Warframe. This means, at the moment, the warframes would have to be suits that the Tenno change in and out of.

 

Of course, like many have said, we don't know what Tenno ARE. They could be spirits, they could be energy, or they could be organic.

And of course, it is possible that it isn't ever meant to make sense, though I find that doubtful.

One of the many strengths that DE has is their talent for character design. I mean, the sci-fi genre as a whole is drowning in faceless, boring robot people, that do boring, inconsequential things. DE has managed to take the tired sci-fi universe, and make it into something much more interesting...something wonderful. This feat is due, in no small part, to DE's lavish attention to character design. 

So I find it very unlikely that the question of "what are the Tenno?" will go unanswered forever.

 

All that being said, however, this issue has swung back and forth repeatedly, and DE has been, perhaps intentionally vague regarding this issue. What seems likely today might suddenly be completely changed tomorrow...that is the nature of a beta, after all.

 

The best anyone can offer at this point is pure conjecture and fantasy, because even the most reasonable theory crafted using the most significant evidence available to us at this time could be shattered by a future update, when DE's writing department decides to explore yet another direction.

 

It's like trying to explain gravity, in a universe where the planets are all changing sizes, AND gravity itself changes its own rules.

"Up" today, might not be what we know to be "Up" the next day.

Of course, the brightest minds among us would be the ones to ask, "But what is Up?"

 

Food for thought!

Edited September 16, 2014 by Farlander

[vaugahn]

So I find it very unlikely that the question of "what are the Tenno?" will go unanswered forever.

 

I think there's a good chance it might. I recall them saying in a devstream that the tenno are left intentionally as a blank slate.

[(PSN)kiddplay13]

Why is this even still up for debate..?

[DeadX65]

Okay, read it again:

 

"We've been wrong all this time. Tenno do not control the Warframe's divine energy. The Tenno ARE that energy. Each Warframe you control is merely a glass shaping your furious light."

 

Are the warframes literally glass? Now, the term "energy" is used there in reference to the "divine energy" of the warframes. If that's not metaphor I'll eat my own foot. He's saying that the power comes from the tenno, not the warframe. Nothing more.

 

 

Err...have you ever considered maybe building warframes is just a gameplay thing? Like, similar to how unique boss characters keep on resurrecting themselves no matter how many times we kill them?

now you lump it into a gameplay thing? really? so...you pick and choose what you want out of the game to apply to your theories? it's ok that codex lore states one thing, like ember being human, but ignore the fact because it doesn't fit your theory that we make the frames? when ALL OF IT is a gameplay thing as you so eloquently stated.

 

uh, yeah you can't pick and choose what you want especially since finding/buying warframe BP's and crafting them is a long standing core game element. and no matter where the lore goes, it's an element more likely to stay than any other.

 

which takes us right back to frankenstein.

Edited September 16, 2014 by DeadX65