How Snipers Can Find Their Niche In Warframe

[Vorsches]

The rundown (TLDR explanation):

Snipers could find their niche in dealing tons of extra headshot damage (compared to the x2 that is what all weapons have now). This can be done by adjusting damage multipliers for snipers to enemies' heads.

 

The rant (Detailed explanation):

I was thinking of what someone said in another thread about stealth missions and someone said they might want to see "sniper missions" so more people would use snipers in game. My initial thought was "well, sniper missions are boss fights/capture missions..." and then I realized that was untrue. Snipers don't have a very well defined role in Warframe, and they tend to be somewhat (and don't hate me for saying this) sub-par at dealing huge amounts of damage in little time (which is their intended role) when compared to other weapons. I quickly thought of a change that seemed so obvious! So, instead of just buffing damage overall or crit chance, why not code AI (code is my closest guess to how it would be implemented) to take more headshot damage from snipers? It's a classic stereotype: The skilled and accurate sniper, aims for the head to deal massive damage.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Vorsches

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

The same should be applied, even if by a smaller amount, to marksmen rifles aswell, I think. The Grinlok is a marksmen rilfe, for example.

 

Moved to a more appropriate section.

[Vorsches]

The same should be applied, even if by a smaller amount, to marksmen rifles aswell, I think. The Grinlok is a marksmen rilfe, for example.

 

Moved to a more appropriate section.

Latron and Grinlok could be helped along with this as well!

[Aktriaz]

My Lanka does 80k on headshot crits, and that kills everything within the intended game.

 

Damage isn't the issue.

[saltshaker42]

My Lanka does 80k on headshot crits, and that kills everything within the intended game.

 

Damage isn't the issue.

Lol, lanka is cheating dude.

 

 

 

I also think this should be applied to DMRs like grinlock and latron. This is a good idea.

[Vorsches]

My Lanka does 80k on headshot crits, and that kills everything within the intended game.

 

Damage isn't the issue.

I ask: Why depend on headshot crits?

[GreyEnneract]

Forever waiting on headshot multiplier stat on weapons and giving Sniper's a huge multiplier for it.

[cloudyDev]

Agreed. 

 

'nuff said.

[gaurdianaq]

I'm cool with this, would let both snipers and bows have niches, snipers have extra headshot damage, but bows can do high crits anywhere on the body.

[Magnar21]

From the Wiki: 

 

Critical Hit Damage

Critical Hit Multipliers are applied directly to Modded Base Damage in the damage calculation and all calculations, including elemental mods damage, occurs after this multiplier has been applied. Thus, elemental mod critically hits when the weapon does and cannot critically hit alone.

A critical headshot will receive an additional multiplier of two, dealing four times the damage than a normal critical would. This factor is independent of the weapons innate Crit Multiplier and the mods installed.

[GSDAkatsuki]

Seriously, Vectis prime or Vulkar Wraith, 40% crit chance, 2.5 crit damage. DONE IT'S DONE! Don't ever need to touch snipers ever again.

Edited October 20, 2014 by GSDAkatsuki

[Phoenix86]

My Lanka does 80k on headshot crits, and that kills everything within the intended game.

 

Damage isn't the issue.

 

 

Lol, lanka is cheating dude.

 

Guess Vectis and Snipertron Vandal are cheating too then... cause i do the same with those.

 

Vectis is my go-to weapon in any T4 mission... i focus on heavy targets while others take care of the rest, i help them only when my duty is done.

[Xeo_Nespydonum]

Snipers certainly need something in this game.  In most games snipers are built to be highly accurate at extreme range and do a good deal of damage;  which is all fine and dandy.  The thing is, Warframe isn't exactly known for its open areas-  the majority of the time we're fighting we're in long hallways or box shaped rooms with tons of obstructive design elements and only about 20-30 meters from a wall at all times.  So... where would a sniper spot even be?

 

In other words, yes; any buffs to snipers should be focused on awarding skilled marksmanship.

[KuroShiranui]

How about applying the extra damage modifier to Sonar as well? Maybe an addition or override? Like Sonar does 5x dmg right now, maybe we can add the extra damage dealt by snipers too as though you're aiming for the head?

[Vorsches]

From the Wiki: 

 

Critical Hit Damage

Critical Hit Multipliers are applied directly to Modded Base Damage in the damage calculation and all calculations, including elemental mods damage, occurs after this multiplier has been applied. Thus, elemental mod critically hits when the weapon does and cannot critically hit alone.

A critical headshot will receive an additional multiplier of two, dealing four times the damage than a normal critical would. This factor is independent of the weapons innate Crit Multiplier and the mods installed.

I'm not sure why this is here but I'll just assume that it is because maybe I was not clear enough in my opening post. My suggestion is that Snipers deal more headshot damage than other weapons in different classes, but I can see how you might have interpreted my opening post as a suggestion for headshot damage as though it wasn't already present.

 

Snipers certainly need something in this game.  In most games snipers are built to be highly accurate at extreme range and do a good deal of damage;  which is all fine and dandy.  The thing is, Warframe isn't exactly known for its open areas-  the majority of the time we're fighting we're in long hallways or box shaped rooms with tons of obstructive design elements and only about 20-30 meters from a wall at all times.  So... where would a sniper spot even be?

 

In other words, yes; any buffs to snipers should be focused on awarding skilled marksmanship.

That is a concise way of explaining it! Yes, sniping could be rewarded by practice and skill, get amazing damage not because you got a sonar-headshot-crit, but because you earned that damage by placing your shots on target.

[Magnar21]

I'm not sure why this is here but I'll just assume that it is because maybe I was not clear enough in my opening post. My suggestion is that Snipers deal more headshot damage than other weapons in different classes, but I can see how you might have interpreted my opening post as a suggestion for headshot damage as though it wasn't already present.

 

That is a concise way of explaining it! Yes, sniping could be rewarded by practice and skill, get amazing damage not because you got a sonar-headshot-crit, but because you earned that damage by placing your shots on target.

With that clarification, yes, I think snipers should award marksmanship. I'm not a twitchy or reflex-based person myself, but I have impressed my dad and friends a few times with my "twitchy" sniping skills upon occasion. Wouldn't mind a place where marksmanship is rewarded more, even if it just more (than current) damage and an exp bonus (come to think of it, having an extra EXP bonus to the weapon and warframe wouldn't be half bad, though I don't think that should be the end-all.)

[Neocyberman]

Part of what gives snipers such issues is the lack of level and enemy design to match them.

 

Snipers have the ability to hit hard from afar with high crit chance and status. Because most if not all don't have innate piercing they seem like they might find use in taking out strong targets that generally are a threat to the team from a long distance. But... the same can be done by most mid range rifles because generally your targets are not that far away and even when they are its a tough shot due to things like assets in the scene. Furthermore maps are small and confined. I wouldn't expect otherwise on a space ship but even in those larger environments usage as a powerful range weapon becomes devalued due to spawning mechanics.

 

Why take a gun that even with max piercing cant take out more that 2-3 targets in the time an auto-rifle could take out 3, 4, 5 targets. Because enemy units come in waves with little stratification(Clumped with the varying unit types without separation). As someone also mentioned above there are not good areas to pick off targets.

 

Like a lot of things it seems like an issue with other parts of the game combined with the solution of more rewarding headshots. Snipers issues seem to be endemic.

[DrBorris]

Snipers need to be reliable. I believe that rather than giving them the possibility of 100% crit chance, nerf crit chance and give a massive buff to base damage. 

 

Here is a (very) in depth look at things. 

 

I would like to thank DE for finally giving snipers a buff. But I think they did it the wrong way.

 

Snipers are supposed to be consistent, they should be extremely predictable when used. All DE did was make them more dependent on crits by buffing it. And they did not give them access to a guaranteed crit, so you have a very unpredictable weapon. This… is not a sniper, and worse, they are just as not-as-good bows. I do not support giving snipers access to 100% critical chance, that is what bows are for. I support the opposite, I wish to give a massive nerf to their critical chance.

 

I envision snipers being pure physical damage (except Lanka with elemental damage), give them a massive buff to their physical damage so you can easily predict the outcome of a shot. I cannot explain exactly why it makes more sense for bows to be critical and snipers to be physical, it just seems better. I am not giving much of a “buff” to the weapons, just changing their stats away from critical based.

 

Now for my proposed buffs/nerfs.

(I am going to exclude Snipetron (vandal), you will be able to tell where I am going from Lanka, Vulkar, and Vectis.)

 

Here are Vectis current and proposed new stats.

Impact: 90 to 285

Puncture: 78.8 to 255

Slash: 56.3 to 105

Critical Chance: 25% to 10%

Critical Multiplier: 2.0x to 2.0x

Explanation: I basically used a 3.2x multiplier to the original stats (I did some weird calculations to get that number). The DPS of the new stats is a bit higher than the current state (not accounting for critical in new stats because you should not depend on critical when using a sniper). Go ahead and do the math, but if you do so, account for the room it takes for critical mods and the effect of them on the old stats. I am going with a 10% crit so a crit can happen, but it is more luck than anything (and it will be glorious when it does)

Lanka

Electricity: 300 to 735

Critical Chance: 25% to 10%

Critical Multiplier: 2.0x to 2.0x

Explanation: A 2.4x multiplier made sense for Lanka (do not ask me why it is less compared to Vectis, it just is). Same as Vectis, there is a very (even smaller) buff to damage not counting crits. If you want to do the math, take into account the same things I said for Vectis. Same reasons for crit as with Vectis.

Vulkar

Impact: 160 to 320

Puncture: 30 to 60

Slash: 10 to 20

Critical Chance: 20% to 15%

Critical Multiplier: 2.0x to 2.0x

Explanation: The multiplier here is 2x, again, not exactly sure why they differ. Yes, I know, a 15% critical chance is worth a crit build normally. I see Vulkar as a slightly different play style though. A 15% critical chance does not make a crit build a necessity, you can go either way (consistency or slightly higher DPS). I cannot explain exactly why it makes sense, but I almost see Vulkar as a sniper-ish Latron. I think that this may be more significant of a buff, because of the higher critical chance it might make sense to bring the multiplier I used for damage to 1.9 or 1.8.

 

So, that is my two cents. I have trouble imagining DE making this kind of change (it seems the only way they know how to buff is to buff crit recently), but I can hope. If my math is completely off… sorry.

 

 

For ever weak-point you get a crit, if you don't hit a weak-point there is a very low chance for a crit. That could be really cool. I am still going to stick with snipers having a low base crit chance however, for the most part have it only crit when you hit a weak point (and have that be 100% chance). In hindsight, the base damage should probably get a nerf with this part... OP would be an understatement if this was taken into effects as is. (So take this more for the idea than the numbers)

 

A head-shot would gain the crit multiplier, requiring the use of Vital Sense, but Point Strike would not be needed. 

 

So, if you score a head-shot you get a crit, then the normal critical chance is for a red crit (double the crit damage). This sounds like how Snipers should be. You are guaranteed to get massive numbers, but every once in a blue moon you make heads explode. 

[Vorsches]

 

Snipers need to be reliable. I believe that rather than giving them the possibility of 100% crit chance, nerf crit chance and give a massive buff to base damage. 

 

Here is a (very) in depth look at things. 

 

I would like to thank DE for finally giving snipers a buff. But I think they did it the wrong way.

 

Snipers are supposed to be consistent, they should be extremely predictable when used. All DE did was make them more dependent on crits by buffing it. And they did not give them access to a guaranteed crit, so you have a very unpredictable weapon. This… is not a sniper, and worse, they are just as not-as-good bows. I do not support giving snipers access to 100% critical chance, that is what bows are for. I support the opposite, I wish to give a massive nerf to their critical chance.

 

I envision snipers being pure physical damage (except Lanka with elemental damage), give them a massive buff to their physical damage so you can easily predict the outcome of a shot. I cannot explain exactly why it makes more sense for bows to be critical and snipers to be physical, it just seems better. I am not giving much of a “buff” to the weapons, just changing their stats away from critical based.

 

Now for my proposed buffs/nerfs.

(I am going to exclude Snipetron (vandal), you will be able to tell where I am going from Lanka, Vulkar, and Vectis.)

 

Here are Vectis current and proposed new stats.

Impact: 90 to 285

Puncture: 78.8 to 255

Slash: 56.3 to 105

Critical Chance: 25% to 10%

Critical Multiplier: 2.0x to 2.0x

Explanation: I basically used a 3.2x multiplier to the original stats (I did some weird calculations to get that number). The DPS of the new stats is a bit higher than the current state (not accounting for critical in new stats because you should not depend on critical when using a sniper). Go ahead and do the math, but if you do so, account for the room it takes for critical mods and the effect of them on the old stats. I am going with a 10% crit so a crit can happen, but it is more luck than anything (and it will be glorious when it does)

Lanka

Electricity: 300 to 735

Critical Chance: 25% to 10%

Critical Multiplier: 2.0x to 2.0x

Explanation: A 2.4x multiplier made sense for Lanka (do not ask me why it is less compared to Vectis, it just is). Same as Vectis, there is a very (even smaller) buff to damage not counting crits. If you want to do the math, take into account the same things I said for Vectis. Same reasons for crit as with Vectis.

Vulkar

Impact: 160 to 320

Puncture: 30 to 60

Slash: 10 to 20

Critical Chance: 20% to 15%

Critical Multiplier: 2.0x to 2.0x

Explanation: The multiplier here is 2x, again, not exactly sure why they differ. Yes, I know, a 15% critical chance is worth a crit build normally. I see Vulkar as a slightly different play style though. A 15% critical chance does not make a crit build a necessity, you can go either way (consistency or slightly higher DPS). I cannot explain exactly why it makes sense, but I almost see Vulkar as a sniper-ish Latron. I think that this may be more significant of a buff, because of the higher critical chance it might make sense to bring the multiplier I used for damage to 1.9 or 1.8.

 

So, that is my two cents. I have trouble imagining DE making this kind of change (it seems the only way they know how to buff is to buff crit recently), but I can hope. If my math is completely off… sorry.

 

 

For ever weak-point you get a crit, if you don't hit a weak-point there is a very low chance for a crit. That could be really cool. I am still going to stick with snipers having a low base crit chance however, for the most part have it only crit when you hit a weak point (and have that be 100% chance). In hindsight, the base damage should probably get a nerf with this part... OP would be an understatement if this was taken into effects as is. (So take this more for the idea than the numbers)

 

A head-shot would gain the crit multiplier, requiring the use of Vital Sense, but Point Strike would not be needed. 

 

So, if you score a head-shot you get a crit, then the normal critical chance is for a red crit (double the crit damage). This sounds like how Snipers should be. You are guaranteed to get massive numbers, but every once in a blue moon you make heads explode. 

 

My thoughts are tied to yours in that snipers should be reliable. If a player can reliably hit headshots with a high powered rifle, that should consistently deal TONS of damage. Players shouldn't have to hope to get a crit on a headshot to have a really effective sniper build (this was what deterred me from using the Vectis and Lanka in high level gameplay). I remember using the Vectis before the sniper buff, it was great, but with a crit build it was kind of hit or miss (or more accurately, it was more like: take a chance with RNG to deal really high damage, or mediocre damage).

[Azawarau]

Honestly

 

Unless the sniper does an AoE proc this wont change much of what they are

 

Theyre not good at killing large amounts of enemies which is what most of the game is about

 

You can already take out single heavy targets faster and more efficiently than any other weapon so this doesnt really add anything to the weapon itself

[ShardsSuperior]

In Firefall, the Bolt-Action Sniper Rifle makes enemies killed explode for a percentage of the shot's damage.

This could be implemented, and that's decent.

 

That's why, in my opinion, Lanka is best suited to Warframe gameplay. Its electricity procs a decent amount and that allows AoE action.

[(PSN)IkariWarrior83]

Vectis + Hush + Serration + Charged Chamber = joy.

[Phoenix86]

Vectis + Hush + Serration + Charged Chamber = joy.

 

No room for Hush, need moar dmg

[(PSN)IkariWarrior83]

Plenty of room for Hush if Serration isn't maxed out, lol.  Also the mod that ups crit% so the Vectis crit chance goes from 25-50 :D  Also boosting Slash, Impact, and puncture with the individual mods all multiplied by Serration is a thing of beauty, and still plenty of room for Hush.

 

Now YOU hush :P 

 

Edit: To elaborate, I stealth-killed just about every enemy in a solo exterminate mission with my Hush'd Vectis.  When you're playing with a group, Hush isn't really necessary, but playing Solo and trying to not get squishy Nyx killed makes Hush a necessity.

Edited October 22, 2014 by (PS4)IkariWarrior83

[Mazen2013]

Easiest way would make sniper headshots crit 100%. If the crit from the weapon is applied as well it becomes a red crit.

 

e.g. Sniper has 50% crit chance. You do a headshot you will 100% yellow crit or 50% chance to red crit.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Mazen2013