Syndicates Should Be All About Missions.

[Yinkuji]

Because it's a video game and the entire point of playing a video game is INSTANT GRATIFICATION. I mean seriously, what type of person plays and MMO and thinks "This questline is to take me a year to complete, the rewards aren't exactly the best, but at least when I'm done I'll feel SO ACCOMPLISHED." 

No, the entire point of a video game is not instant gratification. If you want instant gratification, they made games like Bejeweled and Candy Crush for people like you.

[Yonm]

Not always. 

 

For instance, boss fights. They do not always grant you instant gratification, but once you beat it, you would still feel satisfied. 

Do you even understand how instant gratification works? It's a chemical process. You complete a task, your brain gets pumped full of dopamine, you get a buzz and the neurons that fired to do whatever it is you did to get that buzz get wired together. That's why people play video games. That's why the entire freaking industry exist. Even the longest boss fights in video games that take like an hour to beat fall under this process.

 

You know what doesn't fall under this process? Doing the same thing over and over, over the course of a week without getting anything in return. Then it's not a video game anymore. It's just work. You don't get a buzz, what you get is the sobering realization that you've wasted a week of your life for a tiny piece of code that you could have spent doing, I dunno, LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE.

[Renegade343]

Do you even understand how instant gratification works? It's a chemical process. You complete a task, your brain gets pumped full of dopamine, you get a buzz and the neurons that fired to do whatever it is you did to get that buzz get wired together. That's why people play video games. That's why the entire freaking industry exist. Even the longest boss fights in video games that take like an hour to beat fall under this process.

An hour is not 'instant gratification'. 

[Yonm]

No, the entire point of a video game is not instant gratification. If you want instant gratification, they made games like Bejeweled and Candy Crush for people like you.

No, your right. People play Warframe to be spiritually fulfilled and intellectually stimulated. Truly, [DE]Megan is the Nietzsche of our time.

 

Seriously, who are you trying to fool? You think that the reason you play Warframe is any different from the reason Gen Z Timmy plays Candy Crush? It's all just repetitive motions for the sake of meaningless achievements. Just replace "crushing candies" with killing Grineer and points with mods, warframes, plat or whatever. Add an couple extra hours of gameplay and it's basically the same thing.

[Bhordelik]

I did some runs of a same missions with my friend. We used lvl 30 gear.

And for each missions, he gained between the same to two times my amount of standing. My kill count was always largely superior so it's not the point used to calculate the standing.

 

I would like to know how exactly can we gain standing. And why is it so random? And why does the (almost) idle tenno next to you does gain more standing than you?

 

Not only does it need insane amount of farm (i calculated I would need at least 20 hours of play per mod) but to add insult to injury, it is completely random and give points without being coherent between runs and mission result.

 

And to those that say "it levels while you play" I would say, i have nothing more to play except the new archwing. Grinding for grinding is not fun. I almost feels asleep from boredom while farming argon but I need those for every new melee weapon and frame that are added.

On top of that, the screens above proves that you won't gain enough standing from levelling. My friends had a lvl 0 formaed boltor prime at the beginning of the mission, ath the end it was 23 and he gain "only" 900 standing. I gained even less without reasons. How many weapons do you need to level to even reach one mod? More that what is needed to reach a better rank.

 

To sum it up, the values needed to gain the mod are too high. A goal that won't be achieved in 2 days, why not? But a goal that won't be achieved at all, that's ridiculous... At least, tell us how standing is gained exactly.

[Yonm]

An hour is not 'instant gratification'. 

Yeah and what I'm saying is the phrase 'instant gratification' doesn't mean what you think it means. It's an actual psychological and neurological process, not just a random phrase you used because you wanted to make yourself sound smart.

Edited October 25, 2014 by Yonm

[Renegade343]

Yeah and what I'm saying is the phrase 'instant gratification' doesn't mean what you think it means. It's an actual psychological and neurological process, not just a random phrase you used because you wanted to make yourself sound smart.

Instant gratification refers to the satisfaction felt on impulse choices/more quicker goals. In video games, that typically means around five to ten minutes for a goal (maybe fifteen) (e.g.: Spending Platinum to rush a building process in Warframe). 

 

There is also delayed gratification, which refers to the satisfaction felt on long-term goals (e.g.: Syndicates in Warframe). 

[SergeiTheBeast]

Anyone else think it's odd we can only wear one sigil at a time and aren't allowed to wear our allied factions sigil on the other wise of our frames?

[DrBorris]

Sure, 5000 for the first rank... but 25000 for one mod?

[Yinkuji]

No, your right. People play Warframe to be spiritually fulfilled and intellectually stimulated. Truly, [DE]Megan is the Nietzsche of our time.

 

Seriously, who are you trying to fool? You think that the reason you play Warframe is any different from the reason Gen Z Timmy plays Candy Crush? It's all just repetitive motions for the sake of meaningless achievements. Just replace "crushing candies" with killing Grineer and points with mods, warframes, plat or whatever. Add an couple extra hours of gameplay and it's basically the same thing.

Nice attempt at straw man all the while trying to assert your opinion as fact. Them being "meaningless" is your opinion and when you dumb it down to that level you could basically describe many sports, hobbies, and life goals as meaningless in the eyes of another. I'm done replying to you.

 

I did some runs of a same missions with my friend. We used lvl 30 gear.

And for each missions, he gained between the same to two times my amount of standing. My kill count was always largely superior so it's not the point used to calculate the standing.

 

I would like to know how exactly can we gain standing. And why is it so random? And why does the (almost) idle tenno next to you does gain more standing than you?

 

Not only does it need insane amount of farm (i calculated I would need at least 20 hours of play per mod) but to add insult to injury, it is completely random and give points without being coherent between runs and mission result.

 

And to those that say "it levels while you play" I would say, i have nothing more to play except the new archwing. Grinding for grinding is not fun. I almost feels asleep from boredom while farming argon but I need those for every new melee weapon and frame that are added.

On top of that, the screens above proves that you won't gain enough standing from levelling. My friends had a lvl 0 formaed boltor prime at the beginning of the mission, ath the end it was 23 and he gain "only" 900 standing. I gained even less without reasons. How many weapons do you need to level to even reach one mod? More that what is needed to reach a better rank.

 

To sum it up, the values needed to gain the mod are too high. A goal that won't be achieved in 2 days, why not? But a goal that won't be achieved at all, that's ridiculous... At least, tell us how standing is gained exactly.

DId you see my post earlier?

 

Obviously it's not random and DE has some sort of algorithm they use to determine how rep is awarded. Different factions are affected by different things. Maybe having certain weapons/frames equipped increases your points? Maybe having someone of a certain faction in your squad affects points? Enemy type, mission type, planet, etc. There are a lot of variables that could affect the amount of rep you gain.

 

I'm part of New Loka. They want to restore Earth to humanity. Here are some tests I did so far.

 

Pluto Sechura Dark Sector Defense Wave 5 Infested: 21 points.

Earth Coba Dark Sector Defense Wave 5 Infested: 36 points

Eris Xini Defense Wave 5 Infested: 71 points

Sedena Camenae Defense Wave 5 Grineer: 87 points

Venus Kiliken Defense Wave 5 Corpus: 21 points

Earth Cambria Excavation 500 Cryotic Grineer: 91 points

 

I did the most damage and had the most kills in all of these. Clearly kills and damage have little to no effect on your rep gain. If you want to maximize rep gain, you're going to need to experiment to see what works best for your particular faction.

Edited October 25, 2014 by Yinkuji

[HolidayPi3]

I feel like boosters might be a factor. I'm using an affinity booster and I regularly get ~1000 points from 20-25 waves of defense.

[Arctelion]

So far Syndicate alerts are not out yet, however you can still earn loyalty points for which ever syndicate you're supporting

 

All you need to do is wear their Sigil during missions and you will gain loyalty towards them

 

Do note that wearing a Sigil will create hostility from opposing syndicates

[Selpar]

I did the most damage and had the most kills in all of these. Clearly kills and damage have little to no effect on your rep gain. If you want to maximize rep gain, you're going to need to experiment to see what works best for your particular faction.

I did some testing with Perrin and it seems you get more points if you have a low conclave rating:

Rank 30 Valkyr, rank 30 MK1 Braton, and rank 30 Kogake fully modded 5 waves DSD Pluto = 47 reputation

Rank 30 Valkyr, and rank 30 Kogake fully modded 5 waves DSD Pluto = 60 reputation

Rank 30 Valkyr, and unmodded rank 30 Kogake 5 waves DSD Pluto = 84 reputation

 

So I guess going high wave without any gear might be the fastest way to rank up, but your squad will hate you so at least bring a decent frame. I'd like to know if the low conclave = high rep is true with any other factions as well.

[DSpite]

The mechanics just hit the player base. Is it not a little early to start complaining about the numbers? Surely DE will of erred on the low side  just to see how fast we are collecting points.

 

I'm pretty sure DE did not set up the Syndicates so that we can hop collect every single item they have on a day to day basis.

 

Go try and "grind" standing for corps and factions in EvE Online and see how long that takes. Thank god this game works on much shorter scales.

[Neocyberman]

Progression in syndicates is spent in order to get rewards which extends the grind and leaves people feeling as if they just lost all their progress. Which they are.

 

Sigils should increase gain rate. It would give players a layer of progression. Besides, you gain 40K favour with a faction, gain their greatest level of trust... and then you ask for one favor and BAM, they think nothing more of you than a given newbie. Doesn't make sense.

[Viverim]

I'm not sure how it works, but I do like the idea of having higher level sigils that increase how much you gain.  If it doesn't work this way, DE(L) should consider changing it so that it will do so.

[HypnoCircle]

I have no problem with a long grind, but holy crap i would like to get at least 1 mod a week from regular game play! Maybe two if i was really going in on the grinding. And the fact that you can dig massive holes for yourself in opposing factions doesn't help at all.  What's even worse is when you rank up in your syndicate you have to buy that rank up with your standing. So your 5000/5000 (and you can't go over that cap) becomes 0/22,000 on rank up. That said i have a very serious question. If you do something that lowers your rank for that faction below 0/22000 will you keep your current tier or will you be busted back to square one and have to rank up all over from the beginning again?

 

You're also putting a lot of stock into whatever syndicate(s) you actually work for. What will they get later? Might be gold, might be trash. I get it, the dev's are trying to promote interaction between players by making mod trading the best option, not that that's even much of an interaction. What this is really going to lead to is a screwed up syndicate mod economy where the better (or at least more desired) mods go for a premium while no one wants the others which cost the same amount of grind. These seems like you're classic MMO pigeonholing to me, and the dev's talked about adding more things like this with clan research trees.

 

Personally i've never really thought of Warframe as an MMO.  With the exception of bad luck with RNG, you could farm the best equipment/skills/mods without the need to spend the months, upon months, needed in an MMO just to get a piece or two of your endgame gear.  You could also get these things without crawling to someone else who happened to pick a different skill/craft-tree or a difference faction.

 

TL;DR: Even if meant as a long-term goal, Syndicate standing is a ridiculous grind-fest.

Prices need lowered and/or gains need improved.

Give us more specific info on exactly how standing is gained, spent, and leveled. Please.

 

Warframe is definitely not a traditional MMO, let's not start down the path of making it into one.

Edited October 25, 2014 by HypnoCircle

[Frostmire]

Everything in Warframe is a grind, a painful grind when it's just released.

 

 

DE don't want people to fly through the entire update features in a week or two ( they will continue to rant that there's nothing left to do ) . Things will probably be much easier later ( example : prime items , nearly impossible to farm new prime equipment from RNGesus in the first week it's released )

 

 

There's no need to be a drama queen

Edited October 25, 2014 by Frostmire

[Ryunaki]

I have no problem with a long grind, but holy crap i would like to get at least 1 mod a week from regular game play! Maybe two if i was really going in on the grinding. And the fact that you can dig massive holes for yourself in opposing factions doesn't help at all.  What's even worse is when you rank up in your syndicate you have to buy that rank up with your standing. So your 5000/5000 (and you can't go over that cap) becomes 0/22,000 on rank up. That said i have a very serious question. If you do something that lowers your rank for that faction below 0/22000 will you keep your current tier or will you be busted back to square one and have to rank up all over from the beginning again?

 

You're also putting a lot of stock into whatever syndicate(s) you actually work for. What will they get later? Might be gold, might be trash. I get it, the dev's are trying to promote interaction between players by making mod trading the best option, not that that's even much of an interaction. What this is really going to lead to is a screwed up syndicate mod economy where the better (or at least more desired) mods go for a premium while no one wants the others which cost the same amount of grind. These seems like you're classic MMO pigeonholing to me, and the dev's talked about adding more things like this with clan research trees.

 

Personally i've never really thought of Warframe as an MMO.  With the exception of bad luck with RNG, you could farm the best equipment/skills/mods without the need to spend the months, upon months, needed in an MMO just to get a piece or two of your endgame gear.  You could also get these things without crawling to someone else who happened to pick a different skill/craft-tree or a difference faction.

 

TL;DR: Even if meant as a long-term goal, Syndicate standing is a ridiculous grind-fest.

Prices need lowered and/or gains need improved.

Give us more specific info on exactly how standing is gained, spent, and leveled. Please.

 

Warframe is definitely not a traditional MMO, let's not start down the path of making it into one.

 

I agree completely with this post.

 

Look DE, we don't mind working for our items but the time investment is simply not worth the return. 300-500 Standing per 15 minute Dark Sector defense with no comprehensible way to affect the gains makes the whole process very tedious. I realize that this mechanic was meant more as a passive completion progression but you marketed it as one of the planned facets of "endgame". At this point there are many veteran Warframe players that have leveled to rank 17 grinding through every possible piece of content just to have to replay repetitive missions with no secondary incentive besides slowly grinding through a Syndicate.

 

While the daily Syndicate missions are a step in the right direction, I think the returns are too little. I suggest giving more Standing per mission dependent on what Mastery Rank the player has. It would make sense that a Syndicate would hold a more experienced Tenno in higher regard and would reward veteran players with a way to lessen the tediousness of stale content while also incentivizing less experienced players to reach higher ranks. I also suggest tweaking the daily missions to be more lore based so that players will want to do them not for the increased Standings but also to learn more about the people they are working with.

[Squiintts]

I did some testing with Perrin and it seems you get more points if you have a low conclave rating:

Rank 30 Valkyr, rank 30 MK1 Braton, and rank 30 Kogake fully modded 5 waves DSD Pluto = 47 reputation

Rank 30 Valkyr, and rank 30 Kogake fully modded 5 waves DSD Pluto = 60 reputation

Rank 30 Valkyr, and unmodded rank 30 Kogake 5 waves DSD Pluto = 84 reputation

 

So I guess going high wave without any gear might be the fastest way to rank up, but your squad will hate you so at least bring a decent frame. I'd like to know if the low conclave = high rep is true with any other factions as well.

 

This seems to be how it works.  I tested with a buddy.  I had 2 weapons + frame, he had 1 weapon + frame, i got about 60 percent of the reputation he got.   In essence, it's just like leveling anything else, i.e. it's in your best interest (time wise) to run with the least amount of equipment you can to get the job done.

 

Didn't try with a different conclave's but I doubt it would have an effect.  Can I ask you if you ran those tests with other people or solo?  Also, did you end up having the same kills each time?  

[Selpar]

This seems to be how it works.  I tested with a buddy.  I had 2 weapons + frame, he had 1 weapon + frame, i got about 60 percent of the reputation he got.   In essence, it's just like leveling anything else, i.e. it's in your best interest (time wise) to run with the least amount of equipment you can to get the job done.

 

Didn't try with a different conclave's but I doubt it would have an effect.  Can I ask you if you ran those tests with other people or solo?  Also, did you end up having the same kills each time?  

I ran those test with randoms and I got a lot more kills when I still had mods on my weapon, but I got more reputation without the mods despite not killing much. Which leads me to believe it may be conclave based because my conclave rating dropped by about 100 when I removed the mods. Obviously further testing is required before I can say for certain but so far all of my runs of the same length on DSD Pluto show a trend of greater reputation rewards at lower conclave.

[Onisa]

Everything in Warframe is a grind, a painful grind when it's just released.

 

 

DE don't want people to fly through the entire update features in a week or two ( they will continue to rant that there's nothing left to do ) . Things will probably be much easier later ( example : prime items , nearly impossible to farm new prime equipment from RNGesus in the first week it's released )

 

 

There's no need to be a drama queen

Primes get easier after a week? That's a laugh.

[HolidayPi3]

Just did a T4 defense for 40 waves.

I had an affinity booster, and my friend didn't.

I got 2.4k rep for Steel Meridian (1.6k in the picture because I capped for the first rank... but you can see -2.4k for Perrin, SteelM's opposition).



He got 1140 rep for Arbiters-- approx half of what I got.



So I'm thinking that affinity boosters definitely play a role. Could be wrong though.

Edited October 25, 2014 by HolidayPi3

[Exodess]

Syndicate alerts seem to start at Rank 2. I had a bug with Red Veil that set me at Tier 2 but gave me -5000 points, yet I started getting Red Viel missions immediately as a result.

Edited October 25, 2014 by Exodess

[Innocent_Flower]

At rank 2.... Ah it takes far too long to reach that.