Solo Standing Gains Testing - Facts.

[steak]

Yes, they were all in a group of 4, Not much related to solo games, my bad but still may be useful for some players.

Sorry if I was rude.

 

From personal experience I had numbers in a group that were hard to explain. At least by going with solo we can limit the variables and get a solid affitnity to standing ratio. 

 

That is why the OP contribution was valuable. He got the ratio down. In theory, his numbers should hold in a group, but the affinity gain works differently when there are more people involved. Characters that are too far away from the group wont get full affinity bonus, and the affinity itself is distributed unevenly between everyones weapons, companions and frames, etc. How much does that affect rep gains? Not sure to be honest.

Edited October 27, 2014 by steak

[gaurdianaq]

Others were claiming using a single weapon increased standing, glad it sounds like I can rank up multiple weapons while not gimping standing gain

Using only one weapon gets you more if you're in a group, on your own though it does nothing. This is because of the way shared XP works.

[raisins77]

The above players are correct, XP mechanics are different for kills you get vs kills an ally gets.

 

If you make a kill worth 100 affinity with a weapon, that weapon gets 50 and your frame gets 50. Other weapons you may or may not have equipped are irrelevant. You also get the equivalent for 100 xp of Standing, as you would expect, and your solo testing results reflects this.

 

If an ally makes a kill worth 100 affinity, your warframe gets 25, and your weapons divide 75 amongst them. If you have three weapons, that is 25 each. Two weapons, 37.5 each. One weapon, it gains the 75 points.

 

The formula for ally kill affinity contributing to Standing is definitely affected by this, I have tested it personally. My wild guess is the adaption to your formula is just

 

[(XP Warframe would gain if possible) + (XP Currently Equipped Weapon would gain if possible)] / 225

 

 

TLDR one weapon gives extra standing from your teammate's kills.

[SillyCowsy]

Funny, I did Ishtar runs and only used my powers to kill one shield osprey and both capture targets.

 

I tested out if conclave rating mattered. One weapon only using the same powers the same amount of times to kill the same enemy.

 

Both runs got 7 as my standing.

 

So I did another run with all my equipment on using the same method. Got 4 standing.

 

Conclusion: While conclave rating does not matter having only one weapon does.

 

I still have to test weapons vs warframe powers.

 

First run test of weapons vs warframe powers spawned an eximus osprey and I got 10 standing. Second run everything went flawlessly up until the end when I needed to spend 4 power-uses caught an extra mob in it and ended up with 7 standing.

 

Also as the hyena event has taught us, eximuses might spawn more often if one has lower conclave rating so there is still that to consider when you do go out and rep farm.

 

Tested out, both, if sentinels mattered and I meleed crap.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Laisha

[Lost_Cartographer]

OP is clearly an amateur. Sorry I'm not trying to insult him or anything but he clearly did the simplest mistakes, comparing his results when the data (and here the xp gain) was clearly not the same as well as not doing his homework on how affinity and the xp system works (especially this one). Let me explain.

When you do missions in solo, the simple low lvl ones, you get from 20-200 mobs, 2-10 affinity orbs and cast from 10-20 abilities. (numbers are made up just to prove my point) So in essence the total xp gained varies greatly. Now if you do a defense with 10+ waves, the number of mobs that come at you is more or less the same to a very small % of difference of course.

So whenever I have been doing missions in dark sectors I have seen around 900 or 1000 reputation gain for 20 waves while my friends were always having 450 or 500. We where 4, on teamspeak comparing our results after each mission. Every time I had 50% more reputation then them and they where starting to accuse me of witchcraft (seriously they where talking about sacrificing me to the rng god and cthulhu while at it).

Then I saw the only difference between me and them: the number of weapons we had. They all went in their lvl 30 equipment while I was re-formatting my boltor prime and had only that equipped, a frame and my shade. I told them try taking off a few stuff and try. Next we went in again with this combo:

- Me: frame, pet, rifle

- Dude1: frame, rifle

- Dudte2: frame, pet, rifle

- Dude3: frame, pet, rifle, pistol, melee (he was saying we where all silly)

In the end, after the same number of waves as before we got (approximated numbers, they varied by 20 or so points):

- Me: 900

- Dude1: 1100

- Dudte2: 900

- Dude3: 450 (it's still a lol)

Then, over and over again we did endless defenses and other missions with min equipement and we got more or less the same results. Around 1000 for 20 vawes in dark sector.

Now as for the theory and homework part. Here is why exactly the OP made a mistake. If you read this page on the wiki:

 

 

 

 

 

This info about xp gain mechanics as well as my tests show us clearly that (warframe affinity gain)*X = standing.

 

Want to maximize gain ? Go in alone in solo with ember for example and burn it all ! All the xp will go to your frame and be transformed into standing. Good luck with waves 10+ in defense though...

 

Getting tired of seeing images that show equipment, but no exp gains, and just a rep number.

 

The amateur mistake people keep making is going on rep differences alone without the exp numbers to show some form of difference. No exp numbers to compare the 450 against?  Just guess work based on experiences with discrepencies they can't even begin to understand because they don't have all the necessary data.  I provided the magic number, and the nay-sayers aren't doing anything even remotely scientific with it to disprove it.  "This dude got 900, the other dude got 450!  You can't explain that!"  I could if I saw the exp earnings...

 

Try.  Again.

 

Also, I feel I should add: the number is based on ALL exp earned across ALL gear (minus the sentinel, as it was absent for my tests.)  It doesn't matter how the exp is spread across the frame and however many weapons.  It pools the exp from all of them.

 

 

Sentinels (and I assume kubrows) do take away from your exp I'm almost positive. I saw the second one had a kubrow. If you could do the same thing without the kubrow and show us the results I'd be very interested.

 

I did my own testing (although no where near as intensive as the OP) and found that having a sentinel seems to lower the amount of total rep I get compared to not having it but using full equips (primary, secondary, and melee).

 

Just ran a few tests with every equipment slot filled but none of them max rank, including the sentinel, so that I could see the total exp gains of every item.  The bolded-underlined-italics is the part most "studies" miss when determining if equipment selection matters.

 

In the case of the sentinel however... it does matter.

 

When adding up sentinel and sentinel weapon exp into the big four (frame + weapons) the formula breaks, but when One simply adds up the sum of the frame + 3 weapons and divides that by 450, they get their rep gain.  Ergo, the pet is eating up exp whenever exp is shoved into it.  In a group setting, this can be especially devastating as exp from group members is spread out among ALL player equipment.  Effectively, having a sentinel equipped means a portion of your buddy exp is going to waste.

 

Now for group play.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Littleman88

[Thunder_Chief]

Sentinels (and I assume kubrows) do take away from your exp I'm almost positive. I saw the second one had a kubrow. If you could do the same thing without the kubrow and show us the results I'd be very interested.

 

Yeah. Companions take away your affinity and affect standing gains negatively. Sentinels and Kubrows always stole affinity.

 

In the case of the sentinel however... it does matter.

 

When adding up sentinel and sentinel weapon exp into the big four (frame + weapons) the formula breaks, but when One simply adds up the sum of the frame + 3 weapons and divides that by 450, they get their rep gain.  Ergo, the pet is eating up exp whenever exp is shoved into it.  In a group setting, this can be especially devastating as exp from group members is spread out among ALL player equipment.  Effectively, having a sentinel equipped means a portion of your buddy exp is going to waste.

 

Anybody know if unequipping the sentinel attack precept helps? With all the new mobs, would like to take Helios in "scanner-only" mode to get some more codex entries.

 

Littleman, thank you for your continued work on this. I appreciate it. And thanks for everybody else's input as well. Wish we didn't have to dissect the game to figure out how it works...

 

Now, off to purchase some affinity boosters!  ;-)

Edited October 27, 2014 by Thunder_Chief

[Thunder_Chief]

Also, I am guessing that Sigils are just swag and do not increase standing gain? Or do they...?

 

It is really too bad that we have to pay for both the Sigils AND the mods... would be nice if the Sigils were truly cosmetic and just came with the rank. The way it appears now is that they are more about bragging rights...

 

Pity.

[Kinperor]

This ratio is actually in line with Kinperor's findings, but he didn't quite understand why.  

 

What? 

 

No, the ratio I have given in my own report of testing were calculated using estimation of total experience gained.

 

What I couldn't explain is the minute differences in my numbers. It's possible that I was wrong by stating the exp is based on what the Warframe itself earns, but even then I still have some test result pointing to a small difference between having less weapons in solo play. 

 

With all this said, the statement that "less weapon is good for Standing Gains" is still very true for team play. 

 

As for solo play, I think the difference is too minute to really consider bickering over and testing thoroughly again. I will make a clarification at some point in my original thread. 

[Seraphyx]

Just ran a few tests with every equipment slot filled but none of them max rank, including the sentinel, so that I could see the total exp gains of every item.  The bolded-underlined-italics is the part most "studies" miss when determining if equipment selection matters.

 

In the case of the sentinel however... it does matter.

 

When adding up sentinel and sentinel weapon exp into the big four (frame + weapons) the formula breaks, but when One simply adds up the sum of the frame + 3 weapons and divides that by 450, they get their rep gain.  Ergo, the pet is eating up exp whenever exp is shoved into it.  In a group setting, this can be especially devastating as exp from group members is spread out among ALL player equipment.  Effectively, having a sentinel equipped means a portion of your buddy exp is going to waste.

 

Now for group play.

Thanks for all of your diligent and methodical work. Tbh I have a hard time trusting anything anyone else claims when it contradicts your findings.

 

Solo seems to be nailed down like you say. Curious to see how it all works in a group environment.

 

 

Anybody know if unequipping the sentinel attack precept helps? With all the new mobs, would like to take Helios in "scanner-only" mode to get some more codex entries.

 

Littleman, thank you for your continued work on this. I appreciate it. And thanks for everybody else's input as well. Wish we didn't have to dissect the game to figure out how it works...

 

Now, off to purchase some affinity boosters!  ;-)

Playing in a group I don't think removing the sentinel weapon will do much because exp is split between EVERYTHING on your character, including the sentinel itself. So it will still be taking away rep gain. Ideally I would assume you want all your weapons minus sentinel, unless someone proves with hard numbers that using only one weapon does further increase rep gain with Syndicates.

 

(speak of the devil.. haha, it seems Littleman88 just figured out that less guns = more rep in a group)

Edited October 27, 2014 by Seraphyx

[Lost_Cartographer]

Okay jackals, this is where I fess the **** up and I'm glad to be wrong and a lot more of you are going to enjoy seeing this, so here goes:

 

Less guns in a group = more rep.  Yes.  I just did it.  I just ran something with just a rank 21 Ash and a Rank 20 Hek in a group, and walked away with a little under double what I should have earned using the exp -> rep conversion.  Pics to follow:

 

(Kinda feel like I just got hit with a Jat.)

 

This tells me that items are calculated differently, possibly even individually, and are even weighted differently.  One discrepency between all previous runs and that final, one-weapon group run - the weapon came out with MORE exp than my frame (that hasn't happened in my testing like... ever.)  Solo runs confirmed that ALL exp gained is calculated.  There's really no disputing this.  Group runs with a full loadout (sans sentinel) show this to still be true.  You'll see some slight loss in points (like one or two) but I DID use abilities during those group missions... neglected to mention my initial tests lacked ability use (I just don't care for them.)  

 

However... there's a wrench in the machine with only ONE gun - and it ended up with MORE exp than my warframe.  I also neglected to use abilities.

 

So besides figuring out the REAL formula, I need to determine if ability usage is good or bad for rep gain.  Great.  The plot thickens.

 

As a hypothesis, weapons might be weighted heavier towards providing rep than a warframe.  Never mind that I'm SM with a Hek right now, I can test with something else later (another hypothesis - it doesn't matter.)  It's more important to figure out the why of the final result.

 

Lotus this is so much fun!

Edited October 27, 2014 by Littleman88

[Seraphyx]

Okay jackals, this is where I fess the **** up and I'm glad to be wrong and a lot more of you are going to enjoy seeing this, so here goes:

 

Less guns in a group = more rep.  Yes.  I just did it.  I just ran something with just a rank 21 Ash and a Rank 20 Hek in a group, and walked away with a little under double what I should have earned using the exp -> rep conversion.  Pics to follow shortly.

 

This tells me that items are calculated differently.  Solo runs confirmed that ALL exp gained is calculated.  There's really no disputing this.  Group runs with a full loadout (sans sentinel) show this to still be true.  You'll see some slight loss in points (like one or two) but I DID use abilities during those group missions... neglected to mention my initial tests lacked ability use (I just don't care for them.)  

 

However... there's a wrench in the machine with only ONE gun (and hell, I dominated with it somehow, and it's poorly modded, even!)  I also neglected to use abilities.

 

So besides figuring out the REAL formula, I need to determine if ability usage is good or bad for rep gain.  Great.  The plot thickens.

 

Lotus this is so much fun!

I can't imagine how much they must be giggling behind the scenes watching us try and figure all of this out. /shakefist

[steak]

Anybody know if unequipping the sentinel attack precept helps? With all the new mobs, would like to take Helios in "scanner-only" mode to get some more codex entries.

 

Littleman, thank you for your continued work on this. I appreciate it. And thanks for everybody else's input as well. Wish we didn't have to dissect the game to figure out how it works...

 

Now, off to purchase some affinity boosters!  ;-)

What i meant by pets stealing is that they get the affinity for kills: his kill, his exp. A passive sentinel shouldn't impair your affinity gains, but I have not tested them all yet. 

[Rydian]

15.0.6: "Fixed an issue with Syndicate Standing/Reputation varying if you had fewer weapons in your loadout at end of mission."

 

WELP TIME TO RETEST ERRYTHING

[Seraphyx]

15.0.6: "Fixed an issue with Syndicate Standing/Reputation varying if you had fewer weapons in your loadout at end of mission."

 

WELP TIME TO RETEST ERRYTHING

 

;[ Boooo. Procrastinating on farming slaps me across the face yet again. The gains did seem far too large with no weapons, I was thinking it's unintentional but hoping it was intentional.

 

Now the real grind starts.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Seraphyx

[HolidayPi3]

15.0.6: "Fixed an issue with Syndicate Standing/Reputation varying if you had fewer weapons in your loadout at end of mission."

 

WELP TIME TO RETEST ERRYTHING

This could either be good or bad... hopefully they give us the higher amount ;)

[ArbitUHM]

Could the standing discrepancies between teammates be a result of differing amounts of bonus experience?  From the wiki page on experience mechanics, it says "You get a bonus 50% experience from all kills at the end of mission".  I know it says "all kills", but if you get +50% experience only from your own kills, it could account for the difference even in HolidayPi3's tests where he and his teammate were glued at the hip because it would be impossible to kill exactly the same amount and types of enemies.

 

Do we know for a fact that the +50% bonus applies to team kills as well?  There is some speculation on other factors that apply to bonus experience on that page as well, including a "perfect run" i.e. no deaths, which conceivably could cause a difference in individual affinity scores.  Interestingly, the wiki says Extermination, Assassination, Spy &​ Sabotage mission types give no bonus experience for completion, so these missions might be a good place to test this.

 

edit: welp yeah let's see how this goes after the patch

Edited October 27, 2014 by ArbitUHM

[TheGuyver]

This could either be good or bad... hopefully they give us the higher amount ;)

 

47 rep for 10 waves on sechura, way better than 500.

[101010]

Yep they nerfed it. We wouldn't want people to be able to get to a higher rank that quickly now would we ? Lets keep them interested in our game artificially...

[HolidayPi3]

Womp womp. I liked that less weapons = more rep.

Why? Because it rewarded players who took extra risks. It was more difficult to play with a more restricted loadout.

 

But I guess we can't have that. Don't reward difficulty! Don't incentivize people to challenge themselves for more reward!

 

I'm disappointed.

[Kaliphear]

Yep they nerfed it. We wouldn't want people to be able to get to a higher rank that quickly now would we ? Lets keep them interested in our game artificially...

And let's not forget, once they grind to that next tier, we need to make them give up a catalyst, 1,000,000 credits, half their weapons, and their firstborn child just to advance to the next rank.

[Vypor]

Read through this little trip of experiments and found it quite fascinating, attempting to find some ways to increase the standing myself, I wanted to see what everyone else found out.

 

What I walked away with though, was the sinking feeling that DE wants/thinks-is-a-good-idea to make these faction standing things as grindy as a sono%&^un.

Don't get me wrong, I love that DE made a solid, fun 3rd person shooter that I have played probably over a thousand hours of. (Steam shows 2000, but a lot is afk/watching vids/chatting with friends) But they need to realize that GRIND =/= INCENTIVE.

 

Now whether or not this is tampering due to recent 3rd party stock shenanigans I cannot say for sure. Maybe it's just my paranoia speaking up here, and while I hate to be a doomsayer, I still can't shake that feeling.

DE interacts with the community, and just generally feels like good people. I don't want that to change, and my hope is that they take note of these complaints about the standing system. Cause right now, there is no possible way I am going to wipe myself out trying to grind points, spending them to increase my rank, and then grinding more, to spend them to buy more stuff that I don't really 'need'.

Cause if that ever happens, I will have destroyed my desire to continue playing this game. Grinding isn't exciting. RNG is one thing, but making a solid chosen reward so far from reach by nerfing the system to abysmal levels for acquiring said rewards is entirely another.

 

Yes, DE has had some abundant, (and rather irksome) choices with how many current items are acquired.

Aka...

 

 

I just fear this is another VERY slippery step. Where you can clearly see the reward you can get. It's guaranteed one could say. But good luck ever reaching it.

I know it sounds like I'm ragging on DE here, but I'm critical of things I have hope for. And Warframe, is definitely one of those things. I want to see it grow, and do well. To become a solid game that people play for years. Not one that shoots up in popularity, then declines in a gradual decent of poor 'corporate' choices.

With that being said, I implore you DE if you're reading this, to at least bring a little more light to the Faction Standing system so people aren't pulling their hair out trying to decipher what the hell actually affects what.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Vypor

[Lost_Cartographer]

15.0.6: "Fixed an issue with Syndicate Standing/Reputation varying if you had fewer weapons in your loadout at end of mission."

 

WELP TIME TO RETEST ERRYTHING

FML.

 

Not enough time right now.

 

Initial guess is solo play remains unaffected (it didn't matter before, and certainly won't matter now.)  Group play... is now probably playing by the same rules as solo play now.

 

But for now, forget testing, I'm going to sleep.  It's like they were waiting, "Whelp, one of the turds figured us out, better go to plan B."

Edited October 28, 2014 by Littleman88

[Seraphyx]

FML.

 

Not enough time right now.

 

Initial guess is solo play remains unaffected (it didn't matter before, and certainly won't matter now.)  Group play... is now probably playing by the same rules as solo play now.

 

But for now, forget testing, I'm going to sleep.  It's like they were waiting, "Whelp, one of the turds figured us out, better go to plan B."

It had to happen, heh... Every time I've tried to do something like this and finally began figuring things out it was like NOPE, /changeeverything

 

Regardless, thanks for all the work you've put into figuring it out for everyone.