Morec0 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Simple question: If the Tenno are disembodied "voidspirits" now, why does DE refer to the waframe as an exosuit or as a carapace? Why not just call the warframe a "body?" Because the Tenno still have bodies. Or does Limbo's quest also refer to us being "voidspirits"? I can't say I've gotten that far, and all I know for certain is the "interchangeable warframes" bit because of people talking about it here. This "voidspirits" you're bringing up is the first time I've seen this since the update, and I question is authenticity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentMobius Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 (edited) Not sure if you're attempting to insult me or not here... No, not at all. I have no issues with headcanon if people don't like the "party line" I'm just happy we now know the party line Edited October 28, 2014 by SilentMobius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentMobius Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 (edited) Well It has been confirm that the tenno are humans, It hard to say if they look comepletely human or have some disform features, sense they wear the warframes and those brown suits in the cryopods and when we rescue them from the prisons. The light vor is saying is the void energy coming from us.. Tenno _were_ humans, we don't know what they are now and we don't know that the rescue targets are Tenno, in fact it's more likely they are simple Orokin era humans (Not actual Orokin) who were Tenno allies. Lets say I have rhino (male) but I switch to mag (female), Theres one tenno for males, one tenno for females. There the same but at the same time seperate. This has been confirmed as not true by the Limbo quest, even if you are currently using a female Warframe Ordis will tell you to be careful when inhabiting Limbo, same Tenno, different gender/shape Warframe. We don't know _why_ yet but pilot shape _doesn't matter_ compared to Warframe shape. This isn't a case of "gender switching" it's just different shapes and somehow that is all handled. Edited October 28, 2014 by SilentMobius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentMobius Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 for gods sake look at 6:30 and 5:95 the tenno's are humans That is Hayden Tenno in a game that never existed. Not Waframe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mak_Gohae Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 What Limbo lore thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElHefe Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 (edited) Because the Tenno still have bodies. Or does Limbo's quest also refer to us being "voidspirits"? I can't say I've gotten that far, and all I know for certain is the "interchangeable warframes" bit because of people talking about it here. This "voidspirits" you're bringing up is the first time I've seen this since the update, and I question is authenticity. "Voidspirit" is NOT a DE term ... it is a placeholder phrase I came up with after reading this thread As you know, SilentMobius has calmly and consistently maintained that the warframe-clad Tenno are not corporeal and many who have completed Limbo's Quest (I have NOT) agree with this view Consequently, I am nonplussed over the description of the warframe itself as "armor" (or exosuit/carapace) ... Does it really make sense to describe a vessel that holds an energy being in that manner? If so, then Shirow's "Ghost in the Shell" would be a very close facsimile BUT there is a critical difference between it and Warframe Shirow calls the "shell" a cyborg which may or may not have biologic components and where the human mind can interface with artificial networks (part biologic part silicon based) Ultimately the human consciousness be replicated digitally and housed in a cyberbrain such that there are no original organic materials Was DE being intentionally misleading by calling the warframe "armor" when in fact it was the whole physical tamale? Low blow if that is so ... Edited October 28, 2014 by ElHefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campaigner Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Maybe it started off as humans in suits, but over time the void corruption allowed them to "reach" beyond those limitations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp33chle55 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 No no no... Nooo!!! No energy, no AI being. No future technology is involved with us. The sentients could control every futuristic technology. Thats why we went all sword and stuff against them. No complex technology is with us. No uploading, no downloading of consciousness. But its never getting old huh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentMobius Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 (edited) "Voidspirit" is NOT a DE term ... it is a placeholder phrase I came up with after reading this thread As you know, SilentMobius has calmly and consistently maintained that the warframe-clad Tenno are not corporeal and many who have completed Limbo's Quest (I have NOT) agree with this view Just to confirm here ElHelfe, My stance is for corporial tenno, to summarize: (Some of these are less confirmed/supported that others) 1. Single Tenno per account (Very well supported) 2. Your single Tenno wears all the Warframes you build (Very well supported) 3. Tenno are physical and human-shaped (Moderately well supported) 4. Game powers are shaped by the Warframe, Tenno provide the Void energy/Connection to the Void. (Moderately well supported) 5. Tenno are not infected with the Technocyte virus (Unsupported in either direction, conclusion based on story design) 6. Any mismatch between Warframe shape and your Tenno's shape is resolved by as-yet unreleased lore. (Only supported by story design in Dark Sector and the results of the above statements) 7. Technocyte material is used in the construction of a Warframe (Well supported) 8. Tenno may express useful void-related abilities outside of a Warframe, however inside a Warframe they gain affinity with the Warframe in order to learn how to channel the generic "void energy" into the Warframe system that shape it into power effects. (Moderately well supported) 9. The Orokin have used Tenno who did express useful effects and templates from which specific Warframe lines were created (Well Supported) 10. Forma and morphics are Technocyte by products who's creation kick-started the Orokin Empire (Moderately supported) 11. The Infestation is an Orokin-created strain of the old Dark-Sector Technocyte virus. (slightly supported) My completely unsupported personal preference is that Warframes modify the pilot to fit on entry, and that shape is just one of the imprints that the Warframe carries along with personality fragments and power imprints. Void-space deformation is also possible but IMHO less satisfying (It raises awkward questions about that happens when a Warframe goes offline or is punctured al-la Valkyr) Edited October 28, 2014 by SilentMobius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentMobius Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 No no no... Nooo!!! No energy, no AI being. No future technology is involved with us. The sentients could control every futuristic technology. Thats why we went all sword and stuff against them. No complex technology is with us. No uploading, no downloading of consciousness. But its never getting old huh... I would counter saying that Tenno and Warframes are protected by the "physics defying" void energy that courses through the Tenno and by extension the Warframe. The Warframes themselves are quite obviously a technological creation, while they may use biological parts (technocyte material) they are most definitely technology as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp33chle55 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 (edited) But they are operated by living materials and energized by us, the tenno. They are not comparable with computers and their architecture. So actually they are not a technology relying on numerical controls. Thus cant be "occupied" by the sentients. Thats also how valkyr could actually be created. The warframe being a half living thing shaped itself under the emotions of the tenno and her/his energy creating a whole new symbiosis now called valkyr. Its not that somebody designed her, she was created by a tenno suffering heavily. So the frame also seems to react to its wearer. Of course you can call warframes a sort of technology in the widest sense. Cant disprove that. Edited October 28, 2014 by sp33chle55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentMobius Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 (edited) But they are operated by living materials and energized by us, the tenno. They are not comparable with computers and their architecture. So actually they are not a technology relying on numerical controls. Thus cant be "occupied" by the sentients. Thats also how valkyr could actually be created. The warframe being a half living thing shaped itself under the emotions of the tenno and her/his energy creating a whole new symbiosis now called valkyr. Its not that somebody designed her, she was created by a tenno suffering heavily. So the frame also seems to react to its wearer. Of course you can call warframes a sort of technology in the widest sense. Cant disprove that. Certainly the "Original" Valkyr Warframe was modified by the rage and suffering of the Tenno pilot. However that imprint is now repeatable by us, our Tenno build their own Valkyr Warframe, and wear it themselves. There is nothing unique about the Valkyr Warframe except its genesis. Also, DE refers to "Warframe technology" many times (EG https://warframe.com/game/warframes http://www.digitalextremes.com/games/warframe etc ), there is hard-tech exposed on most Warframes along with the softer (likely technocyte) material. Warframes may well be part biological but the are indisputably technological in nature. It's much more likely that void energy is what protected them from the Sentients. Otherwise why weren't non-tenno-non-Void bio-Warframes made? We know from the Mag codex that the non-Tenno troops used "Zero suits" (zero technology) with no shields or useful protection. Edited October 28, 2014 by SilentMobius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElHefe Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 @ SilentMobius .. many thanks for the patient correction of my misunderstanding of your position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentMobius Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 @ SilentMobius .. many thanks for the patient correction of my misunderstanding of your position No problem, though I am curious what I said to give you that understanding. perhaps it's something I need to edit. I mean I'm not completely adverse to the idea of incorporeal Tenno, but IMHO it's only possible in a highly limited fashion given how much ambient discussion there is about the physicality of the Tenno-inside-the-Warframe currently in-game. Also I just don't get that feeling from DE, they want to ground the player, and incorporeality is quite literally "not grounded" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoshiPendragon Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 So essentially, Warframe could be considered a lot like Avatar. A tenno somewhere has transferred its consciousness into another body. I could be down with this theory. I still prefer the "each Warframe is independent of the other" head-cannon, as I do not want my Rhino being driven by the same person who drives my Trinity or my Mirage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)MadDerpyMonkey Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 So essentially, Warframe could be considered a lot like Avatar. A tenno somewhere has transferred its consciousness into another body. I could be down with this theory. I still prefer the "each Warframe is independent of the other" head-cannon, as I do not want my Rhino being driven by the same person who drives my Trinity or my Mirage. I like this theory because to me it kinda breaks the fourth wall a bit. instead of just being a player with the controller i can become the Tenno...the warframes consciousness. After all without my power the warframe can't move. it might sound lame but it is what makes me feel connected to a character in a games in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)renosis Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 You're taking Vor a LITTLE too literally here. The Tenno are "energy" in the sense a battery is "energy" - it's a physical form with power stored in it. If you note the Arid Fear Codex entry Vor says "every time we tear a Tenno from its metal womb" - so there IS a body that is being taken out of the Warframes. Does this Vor line here: "every time we tear a Tenno from its metal womb" even mean tearing a Tenno out of its Warframe? To me, this could be pulling one out of cryo-chambers, which the Grineer are constantly digging up / looking for. Is there any more context to this line, to prove that he is talking about pulling apart the warframe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Does this Vor line here: "every time we tear a Tenno from its metal womb" even mean tearing a Tenno out of its Warframe? To me, this could be pulling one out of cryo-chambers, which the Grineer are constantly digging up / looking for. Is there any more context to this line, to prove that he is talking about pulling apart the warframe? He talks about finding nothing to explain the powers of the Warframe while examining it. So, to me, it seems they're ripping the Tenno out of the Warframe and then carting the frame off to a lab to try and discover what it is that gives it those powers - but can't find anything, because the Warframe is just a focusing lens, as he notes by the end of the Arid Fear codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anomagnus Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 We know that physical beings returned from the void, twisted broken children, maimed by the void in some way. Also, from embers codex entry, we know that the orokin could physically interact with the children. What we don't know is how many children were thrown into the void, but given the size of ships, it could number in thousands. We also don't know what effect the void had on the physical bodies. Gender may not even be something the Tenno possess anymore. It's my belief that the suits embody a element, and with that element a sex. When a Tenno adopts a suit, I don't think a Tenno's gender changes, rather they adopt the outward manifestation of that element. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentMobius Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Does this Vor line here: "every time we tear a Tenno from its metal womb" even mean tearing a Tenno out of its Warframe? To me, this could be pulling one out of cryo-chambers, which the Grineer are constantly digging up / looking for. Is there any more context to this line, to prove that he is talking about pulling apart the warframe? Yes there is, he's definatly referring to extracting the Tenno corpse from a Warframe: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentMobius Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 We know that physical beings returned from the void, twisted broken children, maimed by the void in some way. Also, from embers codex entry, we know that the orokin could physically interact with the children. We don't know that anyone in the Codex entry for the Ember Warframe was Orokin. All of the Orokin Military could have been human, with the few, Orokin staying well away from combat and simply ruling the Empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)renosis Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Yes there is, he's definatly referring to extracting the Tenno corpse from a Warframe: Ok, ya, that makes sense I suppose. I was just thinking, Vor says "metal womb", and to me the Warframes don't look metallic (except prime frames which have hints of gold and rhino with iron skin active). They look, to me anyway, like they are made of a durable rubbery material. Also cryopods seem more womb-like to me then Warframes. And Vor tries to get you while you are in the cryopod in the intro, but Lotus intervenes by waking you up. I would assume the Grineer would have to plasma torch or otherwise pry/force open the cryo and they probably want you dead before they get to you. Anyway, thanks for the pic, I am convinced for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentMobius Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Ok, ya, that makes sense I suppose. I was just thinking, Vor says "metal womb", and to me the Warframes don't look metallic (except prime frames which have hints of gold and rhino with iron skin active). They look, to me anyway, like they are made of a durable rubbery material. Also cryopods seem more womb-like to me then Warframes. And Vor tries to get you while you are in the cryopod in the intro, but Lotus intervenes by waking you up. I would assume the Grineer would have to plasma torch or otherwise pry/force open the cryo and they probably want you dead before they get to you. Anyway, thanks for the pic, I am convinced for now. There does appear to be technocyte material on the surface but if you look at the spine of Valkyr Loki, Excalibur and many others you'll see the hard-tech underneath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 There does appear to be technocyte material on the surface but if you look at the spine of Valkyr Loki, Excalibur and many others you'll see the hard-tech underneath Ok, ya, that makes sense I suppose. I was just thinking, Vor says "metal womb", and to me the Warframes don't look metallic (except prime frames which have hints of gold and rhino with iron skin active). They look, to me anyway, like they are made of a durable rubbery material. Also cryopods seem more womb-like to me then Warframes. And Vor tries to get you while you are in the cryopod in the intro, but Lotus intervenes by waking you up. I would assume the Grineer would have to plasma torch or otherwise pry/force open the cryo and they probably want you dead before they get to you. Anyway, thanks for the pic, I am convinced for now. With the upcoming PBR texture updates they teased in a Devstream we'll probably see them become a LOT more metal looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiouHotaru Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Based on Ordis's remarks once you finish The Limbo Theorum I believe the Tenno are non-corporeal beings, or either extremely androgynous beings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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