Shotgun Rework - Point Blank & Blaze

[Brimir]

The biggest problem when it comes to modding Shotguns is that you'll simply run out of mod slots before you run out of mod capacity. The biggest cause of this is that Shotguns do not have their own version of Serration/Hornet Strike - they need to use many mods just for base damage.

 

So I suggest the following:

 

* Point Blank should be able to be upgraded as many times as Serration/Hornet Strike.

* Blaze should have the raw damage component turned into something else, maybe Crit Chance or Crit Damage.

 

[Archistopheles]

If you double shotgun damage mods, the Boar Prime will begin to destroy worlds.

[Netheroc]

I also suggest changing Blaze mod to give toxin damage instead of fire. So we have all elements in nightmare mods, being Fire for rifles, Cold for secondaries, Toxin for shotguns and Electrical for melee.

If you double shotgun damage mods, the Boar Prime will begin to destroy worlds.

It should, as you have to go close range with shotguns.

[Imaru]

If you double shotgun damage mods, the Boar Prime will begin to destroy worlds.

It kinda already does, but I digress. 

 

OP, I think this would possibly be a good start, especially since it would solve the problem of Blaze being another "false choice" mod. As it currently stands, it serves as another vital layer of damage and there is no shotgun build that is complete without it. Now, I don't think this would be all that shotguns need (frankly I don't understand what people think are wrong with them, but meh), but it would be a good start.

[Brimir]

Blaze is also very problematic if you don't want Fire damage in your build.

[OverlordMcGeek]

me hek and boar prime will make sweet sweet love to you for making this idea possible DE.

[MechaTails]

Shotguns already destroy worlds.

 

I mean, do you guys actually use them or just compare numbers and make a frowny face? Not trying to be mean, I just don't understand how anyone could possibly want to buff shotgun damage when they're already incredibly strong at close range.

 

Blaze is fine. It's called Blaze for a reason.

 

Go ahead and suggest versions of the other elements though.

 

Abominable Snowman Shot

60% Damage; 60% Ice

 

Virulent Ooze

60% Damage; 60% Toxic

 

Electrocutor

60% damage; 60% Electric

 

Etc.

Edited November 1, 2014 by DarkTails

[Noble_Cactus]

Shotguns already destroy worlds.

I mean, do you guys actually use them or just compare numbers and make a frowny face? Not trying to be mean, I just don't understand how anyone could possibly want to buff shotgun damage when they're already incredibly strong at close range.

Blaze is fine. It's called Blaze for a reason.

Go ahead and suggest versions of the other elements though.

Abominable Snowman Shot

60% Damage; 60% Ice

Virulent Ooze

60% Damage; 60% Toxic

Electrocutor

60% damage; 60% Electric

Etc.

Did you not read the OP

The OP is saying that to get good damage, we need to equip all of these comparatively weak damage mods. Rifles equip two for base damage and multi shot (three if you count Heavy Caliber, but many guns can forego that mod or don't even want it). Pistols equip three for damage and multi shot (Magnum Force is junk). Shotguns equip four for damage and multi shot, which is half a loadout. Considering two of the remaining slots will go to elemental mods, that leaves little room for utility mods.

Not to mention that Blaze is one of those necessary mods. This messes with Corpus and Void builds if you want to add a third element, and it screws with build order because of the V polarity.

"Blaze is fine. It's called Blaze for a reason." What is this supposed to mean?

tl;dr OP is complaining about how modding for shotguns feels obtuse, not about their damage output like you assume.

Edited November 1, 2014 by Noble_Cactus

[MechaTails]

Read the post now rofl, thanks for heads up

 

"The OP is saying that to get good damage, we need to equip all of these comparatively weak damage mods."

 

Except that's not true. Shotguns do tons of damage without needing to equip lots of "weak" mods.

 

Then the OP suggests Point Blank get a major buff, which is unnecessary. It's comparatively weak to Hornet Strike for example, but that's because shotguns do tons of damage to start with.

 

Blaze is called Blaze because it deals fire damage. I don't know how else to put it lol. I guess it can also refer to guns "blazing", still don't know why we'd have to get rid of Blaze when we could simply make more mods that are equally useful.

 

Sorry OP, I stopped reading posts because 98% of them are the same. I need a break from this place

Edited November 1, 2014 by DarkTails

[Noble_Cactus]

No worries, I need one too.

 

I guess they do have a lot of front loaded damage to make up for it, yeah, though I know where the OP is coming from. I'd rather that 60% damage boost from Blaze be moved to Point Blank, then add... I dunno, fire rate (blazing fast!) or something else to Blaze itself. Which is what the OP is asking for I think.

[Brimir]

This wouldn't even buff Shotgun damage; it would simply make them work like other Primaries with just one main damage mod. If you shift the damage from Blaze onto Point Blank no damage has been added, just moved.

[Cat_Jam]

Their mods don't need reworking, the damage falloff does.

[Grievous10]

I would like to see more mods like Blaze though. At the moment Blaze is pretty much necessary for every shotgun. So if we get more of these mods we are no longer locked by only using fire elemental damage.

[Sasquatchias]

I feel that buffing Point Blank to be as strong/"big" as Serration or Hornet Strike would be a terrible idea.

 

Shotguns have different mechanics, and work differently than Rifles and Pistols, with their Mod's values built for/around those mechanics. Just buffing the Mods will lead to balance being thrown out the window again.

 

(Unrelated but I feel that Serration and Hornet Strike actually need to be reduced.)

[Brimir]

Their mods don't need reworking, the damage falloff does.

 

It is not a case of either or, y'know.

 

Both are issues and should be dressed.

 

 

Shotguns have different mechanics

 

That is irrelevant because they are still modded the same way as Rifles and Pistols.

 

 

At the moment Blaze is pretty much necessary for every shotgun.

 

Which is a very, very bad thing because

 

1. It takes up another mod slot, and those can not be increased like mod capacity.

2. It forces Fire damage into your build which you don't always want.

[Cat_Jam]

It is not a case of either or, y'know.

 

Both are issues and should be addressed.

Their mods aren't an issue... they deal a lot of damage on paper but in practice the damage falloff f*cks the shotguns over.

[Brimir]

Their mods aren't an issue... they deal a lot of damage on paper but in practice the damage falloff f*cks the shotguns over.

 

The mods are an issue if you look beyond damage and look at the practicality of modding a Shotgun properly.

 

This is my Akbronco Prime config. Because I only need Hornet Strike for base damage I can fit a lot of neat stuff in there like all the event mods and punch through.

 

That alone makes it a gazillion times better than any Shotgun in the game. The same goes for the Brakk.

 

To put that into perspective:

To get the same effect on my Boar Prime I would have to use up three mod slots instead of one: (Point Blank, Blaze & Vicious Spread) and I would get Fire damage which I may not want and a huge increase in spread from Vicious Spread.

[Cat_Jam]

 

The mods are an issue if you look beyond damage and look at the practicality of modding a Shotgun properly.

 

This is my Akbronco Prime config. Because I only need Hornet Strike for base damage I can fit a lot of neat stuff in there like all the event mods and punch through.

 

That alone makes it a gazillion times better than any Shotgun in the game. The same goes for the Brakk.

 

To put that into perspective:

To get the same effect on my Boar Prime I would have to use up three mod slots instead of one: (Point Blank, Blaze & Vicious Spread) and I would get Fire damage which I may not want and a huge increase in spread from Vicious Spread.

Point Strike, Hell's Chamber, Viscous Spread and Blaze. 4 mods left over to do the same amount of sh!t you've done there.

 

And you've used all 4 of the event mods, adding additional elemental damage...

Edited November 1, 2014 by Cat_Jam

[Brimir]

Point Strike, Hell's Chamber, Viscous Spread and Blaze. 4 mods left over to do the same amount of sh!t you've done there.

 

And you've used all 4 of the event mods, adding additional elemental damage...

 

... it just went straight over you head, didn't it?

 

On my Akbronco I have seven mods left and I don't have to deal with possibly unwanted Fire damage and definitely unwanted spread increase.

Edited November 1, 2014 by Brimir

[Shlayn]

I totally agree. I think all weapons should continue to have the same mods and think that it is the individual shotguns themselves that should be balanced. While adding serration (for example) won't mke much of a difference as shotguns already decimate at close range, it will allow for more utility in your build. And that's what makes the difference during higher level missions.

 

tl;dr - all guns should have the same mods available/ shotguns shouldn't be singled out.

[Paradoxbomb]

I like the idea of removing the +base damage from Blaze and replacing it +crit damage (since Ravage is currently the only one for shotguns and caps at a measly 60% IIRC). Then distribute that base damage between Point Blank and Vicious Spread.

[LtZefar]

 

This is my Akbronco Prime config. Because I only need Hornet Strike for base damage I can fit a lot of neat stuff in there like all the event mods and punch through.

 

That alone makes it a gazillion times better than any Shotgun in the game. The same goes for the Brakk.

 

 

Them be some fighting words there my friend. Allow me to show you some REAL shotgun damage.

 

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/27346640353751917/1BF0C418026AFD1600FEB7161F9577122801B408/ My Brakk and as you can see it vastly out damage your little pea shooter. Haven't even maxed it out.

Now for the main weapon.

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/27346640353750324/94C182AE84B449514B789095BFA4EAB05BFB59D4/

Strun Wraith which is still my favorite shotgun.

 

 

I STILL want to see damage fall off to be removed. But the mods are not exactly in need of much changing imo other than adding the event mods to the drop rotation.

[Brimir]

Them be some fighting words there my friend. Allow me to show you some REAL shotgun damage.

 

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/27346640353751917/1BF0C418026AFD1600FEB7161F9577122801B408/ My Brakk and as you can see it vastly out damage your little pea shooter. Haven't even maxed it out.

Now for the main weapon.

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/27346640353750324/94C182AE84B449514B789095BFA4EAB05BFB59D4/

Strun Wraith which is still my favorite shotgun.

 

 

I STILL want to see damage fall off to be removed. But the mods are not exactly in need of much changing imo other than adding the event mods to the drop rotation.

 

 

You seem to think that my post was an epen0r challenge.

 

It was not.

 

I don't actually care for your builds.

 

My point is that teh Brakk/Bronco will be the better shotguns than actual shotguns due to just having one damage mod.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Brimir

[LtZefar]

You seem to think that my post was an epen0r challenge.

 

It was not.

 

I don't actually care for your builds.

 

My point is that teh Brakk/Bronco will be the better shotguns than actual shotguns due to just having one damage mod.

 

But my primary just proves you wrong. My main shotgun does far more damage. I think even the normal Strun now is pretty powerful. More so than Bronco, not sure if it's more powerful than Brakk but could be.

[Brimir]

It is not, if only for fact it has falloff.

 

But also that you can cram more goodies into the Brakk.