Good Game Design Unexpected Effect On Lore.

[(PSN)NearlyDedicated]

1. A giant ship for us=/= us having tons of more Tenno in there.

2. Yes, exactly. Our ship can only hold so much... if we were actually to have so many other Tenno, then why can't they hold everything for us?

3. Yep. The Arsenal Module holds tons of weapons for us. I understand that, again. If there are so many other Tenno though, then why can't they hold said weapons for the person currently in the mission?

4. Wouldn't someone such as the stalker still: Not target the Tenno in said mission because they would be innocent? They didn't kill the boss, the other Tenno did. The Nekros supported the Grineer, silly harvester. Not the mag "character".

5. Having the ship incomplete is not an excuse. If we have enough room for our ships to hold something such as an ARCHWING, and we have the areas for the codex, market, announcements, etc... why can't we even GLIMPSE at another Tenno in our ship? Also explain the tutorial, where we are ALONE in OUR cryopod, and have to escape to our crashed, EMPTY ship? If we "buy" characters why don't we ever see them? How do we obtain these "different characters" if the Liset was empty at first? Does this mean we build characters? Why does Ordis refer to us as Operator and not Operators or one of many operators? If there are other Tenno in our Liset because the big ship isn't complete or even mentioned really (could even possibly be the player hub... did you ever think of that?) then how do we switch between them?

6. I completely understand and have known that the Evolution writing is a huge reference to Evolution Engine. I'm not completely blind to info. Also, assuming DS is cannon, which it most likely is, then why can't our single Tenno just generate our weapons like Hayden did with his glaive? Why can't we just generate the different warframes around us like how Hayden had his Excal "grow" around him? Why do our Warframes have the words Model # _______? If we generate our warframes around us, why is it that our warframes are just models/designed? We don't grow something that's built.

1. Personally, I differ. I highly doubt one Tenno could manage such a large ship, personally.

2. Do soldiers always carry their weapons on them? Do they wear their armor? Even at home? No. They put them into an arsenal. We need to buy more room for these (slots).

3. See 2.

4. The Stalker wants to kill all Tenno for their sins on the Orokin. He just happens to begin hunting those on our ship after we kill a boss b/c game mechanics.

5. I think it's a fine excuse if it's coming soon.

6. Void exposure. We know that the Tenno in Warframe were exposed to the Void...clearly Hayden Tenno was not. So even though they are both advanced strains of the Technocyte virus (i.e. Tenno), they do not have the exact same functionality. Also, we don't generate our Warframes around us. In darksectOr, Hayden eventually puts on a suit - a Warframe. Yes, originally, his skin was metallic - but the actual Warframe was the suit found halfway through the game.

[Liacu]

That's because the Tenno was extracted(or more likely vaporized by the laz0rs) from the Warframe leaving, fittingly, just an empty suit.

 

Actually, the Tenno should still be inside that Excalibur since Mag still had a Tenno inside during the trailer when she was about to be cut into pieces. Although, I'm not precisely sure if the warframe in the trailer was actually hollow or the cuts were just cauterized since there's no bleeding.

[-Ropefish-]

Where's this? I couldn't find it. *interest intensifies*

cant find it either but here is the wiki page, in the end the grinner reward sucked ; - ;

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/The_Gradivus_Dilemma

[Brimir]

Actually, the Tenno should still be inside that Excalibur since Mag still had a Tenno inside during the trailer when she was about to be cut into pieces. Although, I'm not precisely sure if the warframe in the trailer was actually hollow or the cuts were just cauterized since there's no bleeding.

 

Of course he was inside the suit.

 

Until he got vaporized.

 

Then they were just left with the Warframe which Salad V tried to sell.

[(PSN)NearlyDedicated]

cant find it either but here is the wiki page, in the end the grinner reward sucked ; - ;

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/The_Gradivus_Dilemma

Thanks! I participated in the GD on PC, but couldn't find a trailer.

I supported the Grineer, btw...a choice I regret to this day...but I'll save that for another thread.

Edited November 5, 2014 by (PS4)NearlyDedicated

[Brimir]

cant find it either but here is the wiki page, in the end the grinner reward sucked ; - ;

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/The_Gradivus_Dilemma

 

The Brakk still blows the Detron out of the water so...

 

Plus, Sargas Ruk was simply a delight to fight for while Salad V was a d-bag regardless of which side you were on...

 

Go Team Grineer!

[ArcariusAero]

1. Personally, I differ. I highly doubt one Tenno could manage such a large ship, personally.

2. Do soldiers always carry their weapons on them? Do they wear their armor? Even at home? No. They put them into an arsenal. We need to buy more room for these (slots).

3. See 2.

4. The Stalker wants to kill all Tenno for their sins on the Orokin. He just happens to begin hunting those on our ship after we kill a boss b/c game mechanics.

5. I think it's a fine excuse if it's coming soon.

6. Void exposure. We know that the Tenno in Warframe were exposed to the Void...clearly Hayden Tenno was not. So even though they are both advanced strains of the Technocyte virus (i.e. Tenno), they do not have the exact same functionality. Also, we don't generate our Warframes around us. In darksectOr, Hayden eventually puts on a suit - a Warframe. Yes, originally, his skin was metallic - but the actual Warframe was the suit found halfway through the game.

1. See my #5. I'm guessing the giant ship is probably the player ship, because "soon tm" for a drawing of a giant ship doesn't mean the ship is necessarily just our "group"s ship. It could be shared by multiple "groups" or with what I'm thinking, just multiple Tenno, who each have their own Liset and dock within the place.

2. You bring up a good point, but if people don't wear their armor at a place they consider home, why do we wear our armor in the Liset, or in our dojos? It's almost like a private home for us, we shouldn't have to stay inside our warframes. Warframe is also having a huge war in the game between pretty much everyone. (that means you too, Desert Skates... you and your faces) We'd probably have to be ready or prepared for anything, given people such as the stalker can appear at almost any moment.

3. Sorta ties in with #2. Also, if we have too many slots in our arsenal, can't the other tenno just hold their favorite weapons in the ship to make room?

4. He DOES want to kill all the Tenno. I understand. WHY does he hunt us after we kill a boss though? Why can't he just kill us while we're on our ships? Does he just want an excuse to kill us? Also, why does Salad V only have our warframe target-ed by Harvester AFTER we go against him? Why does he have it go against all of our Tenno too? Wouldn't only one of them have been guilty of the "crime"? Also, explain Grustrag bolts. They're stuck to all of our frames when applied as if our Tenno ALL share it just because one got caught. I'm also pretty sure that the G bolt isn't a life form that can spread from frame to frame. Why is it that when a Tenno is captured by the Harvester that we can't just send ALL of our other "characters" in to rescue him/her?

5. See 1.

6. You bring up a very good point. I'd like to add on a slight thing though and jump away from the DS argument, given we both know it's a suit and all that, and you helped inform me of such. Why can't one single Tenno like multiple warframes or wear multiple warframes? Men wear women's clothes in present times, and women wear men's clothes sometimes too. It's almost like that. Who says our single Tenno can't just favor a single warframe and switch out of it when he wants to?

[fatpig84]

 

Also, Vor says we are energy, but how does energy bleed? How does energy choke in a vacuum? The answer is simple: it doesn't. Vor was simply using a metaphor.

 

/thread?

 

Ghost in the shell.

The Warframe itself is the physical body, we are just the "spirit" or "energy".

The body can die, but the Tenno can't.

[ArcariusAero]

Ghost in the shell.

The Warframe itself is the physical body, we are just the "spirit" or "energy".

The body can die, but the Tenno can't.

Vor was simply using a metaphor (to a certain extent)

We have great power in our bodies. The Frame simply helps us channel that power into abilities.

[Hypernaut1]

Its obvious we are changing suits in the arsenal panel and build these suits part by part.

 

You have to really stretch and dismiss many things in order for the poly-tenno idea to make sense.

 

Why would there be a bunch of lore and tidbits in game that is misleading? Vor is used as exposition- his only purpose in talking is to inform the player about the world. This is basic storytelling.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Hypernaut1

[-Ropefish-]

The Brakk still blows the Detron out of the water so...

 

Plus, Sargas Ruk was simply a delight to fight for while Salad V was a d-bag regardless of which side you were on...

 

Go Team Grineer!

b-but....pew pew gun  ; - ;

 

with spread

 

a-and it fires lazors ;-;

[Shion963]

Where's this? I couldn't find it. *interest intensifies*

It's The Profit trailer, I misremembered. The one where Salad V cut up an excal.

 

Hmm probably should of put the source in the original post. This is from the most recent AMA on reddit.

"2) -You are kind of close but not quite and as coincidence the Rhino Prime entry gives more hints.

-Its often the most popular wallpapers but no one will admit. A saw a New Loka one that made me spit coffee on the screen."

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/2ksp3t/we_are_members_of_digital_extremes_and_we_develop/clobwqn

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sdue8n

Ah, the AMA. I forgot all about it, gonna read through it ASAP. Thanks!

[Spechtre]

I'm subscribing to the mono tenno theory. I also think things like bleed procs can be explained, bleeding coolant or some kind of bio fluid, it doesn't have to be blood.

 

I like the Ghost in the Shell idea, the way tenno is a spirit of kinds and can occupy different frames.

 

This topic is fantastic, it made work go by a lot faster.

[Voidflow]

With a given lore mono tenno (operator) theory is the most logical thing in my opinion. Because of efficiency behind the whole idea/concept (especially regarding evolution). Since ember/excal lore gives us an insight of how warframes were created. And we use "rebuilt" warframes as weapons and occupy them as operator (being a flesh tenno, energy being or maybe even a more advanced AI). I think the warframes we create seems to be built by us as a whole kind of cloned body inside with suit around, maybe even containing some information about the past of origin tenno or ther personal aspects, memories e.g. (reason enough to kill orokin).

However, the whole concept and idea behind single tenno as operator of warframes (=weapons) is very efficient and far beyond other theories.

Edit: or maybe it is just me who wish such kind of life and being anoyed by dumb things in our current world around us. We could be much more ... but well.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Voidflow

[TankHunter678]

I prefer poly-tenno because then it means that each frame, each tenno member of the team, carries their own stories. Their own possible pieces of the lore. Their own personalities that lets them be more then just tropes you can put on when you feel like it. Their own lives that we could learn from.

 

The mono-tenno theory to me takes out all of the weight behind Mirage and Limbo being lost. It stops being a lesson to learn from and remember to being that they are probably still around, they just lost track of their suits since after all... in order for them to be able to wear such a wide range of physically different bodies they would have to be energy.

 

So their existing frames get broken apart and they just travel as energy through the void into one of their other warframes and then have to figure out where the parts were to the warframe that they lost.

 

Mono-tenno hampers the lore in my opinion.

 

I can take whatever 4th wall breaking ordis does to which ever tenno happens to be using his pod at the time to run a mission.

[SilentMobius]

The mono-tenno theory to me takes out all of the weight behind Mirage and Limbo being lost. It stops being a lesson to learn from and remember to being that they are probably still around, they just lost track of their suits since after all... in order for them to be able to wear such a wide range of physically different bodies they would have to be energy.

 

This is not true, regardless of the mono or poly Tenno approach there is no requirement for Tenno to be "energy". Again, regardless of the mono or poly Tenno approach the last/only Tenno who were using a Mirage/Limbo Warframe are dead.

 

Neither position takes anything away from those stories. You can choose to make it so, but there is no reason that it must be so.

[Brimir]

The Tenno *are not energy!*

 

We know for sure, thanks to Steve saying so in a devstream, that there are "people" (i.e humans) inside of the suits.

[SilentMobius]

The Tenno *are not energy!*

 

We know for sure, thanks to Steve saying so in a devstream, that there are "people" (i.e humans) inside of the suits.

 

Just to remind you _again_ that Steve said _were_ people, in fact he was quite specific in correcting himself to use the past tense.

 

I also agree that it's highly unlikely that the Tenno are energy however that particular exchange does nothing to support or deny the tenno-as-energy-hypothesis. All we can conclude from that is that they were not always energy.

[Brimir]

Except that is incredibly far-fetched and only supported by a metaphor used by Vor. It is far more likely that they once were human, but now they are something more i.e superhuman. Plus, he also said that "there are people inside the suits".

 

People. Inside the suits.

[SilentMobius]

Except that is incredibly far-fetched and only supported by a metaphor used by Vor. It is far more likely that they once were human, but now they are something more i.e superhuman. Plus, he also said that "there are people inside the suits".

 

People. Inside the suits.

 

Again I don't adhere to the energy-Tenno idea and i agree that the "you are that energy" line is definitely only a metaphor for Tenno powering the abilities of the Warframe they are wearing... but let me ask you this:

 

Void-Vor, Manifests physically, he leaves a corpse (for a while), he bleeds when struck with bleed proc's and is susceptible to damage as befits his "cloned flesh" health type wrapped up in alloy armor. And yet he is the poster child for being-energy-because-of-void-stuff.

 

Would you agree that Void-Vor was "a person"? Would you agree that he could still be described as "a person" under the alloy-armor suit?

 

Because I'd say he could be described as "of void energy" as well as "a person in a suit"

[Brimir]

Void-Vor isn't energy. He is being reanimated by the Neural Sentry somehow. He's a zombie, a Frankenstein's Monster. He has been reborn but is still very much made up out of the same stuff as before except... y'know... in two halves now.

 

He is a conduit for energy, but keep in mind he could do some funky stuff like shielding himself and teleporting other Grineer around before he was reborn so I don't know if his powers actually changed that much.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Brimir

[SilentMobius]

Ok, so you believe that void-vor is simply another corrupted drone that was somehow targeted because of his use of the key and that his corruption is special in some way resulting in no mind-control-hat and seeming self-determination. And he is actually in no way void-tainted.

 

I think that's very weakly supported but it makes sense.

Edited November 5, 2014 by SilentMobius

[Brimir]

Uhm, no.

 

He obviously retains his free will unlike the other Corrupted who make no attempt to communicate or otherwise act any other way than an automaton. He, however, was obviously influenced by the Neural Sentry; it has shown him visions and stuff through the Janus key which has convinced him of a greater truth.. or something.

 

So when he "died" he accepted a Faustian Bargain and took up the position of, for the lack of a better word, it's "prophet" and the Neural Sentry in turn gave him his life back.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Brimir

[SilverBones]

Why can't we just generate the different warframes around us like how Hayden had his Excal "grow" around him? Why do our Warframes have the words Model # _______? If we generate our warframes around us, why is it that our warframes are just models/designed? We don't grow something that's built.

 

This is not technically true. Hayden Tenno found his full suit in the base he was trying to escape, and removed the arm from it as his infected arm was already armored up. Had the infection taken over his whole body, he would have looked more like one of the infested (but more silvery perhaps).

[Spechtre]

I could believe even if in the present that one tenno uses all frames but in the past each frame was a unique individual, they had their own sotry and history but have passed on. Like a mortal achieving a god status they earned a place where they would be immortal by great deeds. Bad example, but I could still put my sim card in an old sidekick, its still my phone number but the memories and nostalgia is different from my galaxy.