Why Was Loki Removed From Starting Frames?

[Neyo]

So I know im a little late on this topic but why was loki removed from starting frames I mean hes one of the best frames in the game even though he has no offensive abilitys and also hes really hard to farm for so why did he get removed? Also was there a change in his codex entry I remember it saying when I started playing this game 7 months ago that was for advanced players not preferred by advanced players? 

 

 

[holdenagincourt]

I never knew he was removed, TIL.

 

I would hate to farm for him now though, Neptune is really high level now compared to before Solar Map 2.0 (it used to be like Mars-level enemies) and that Hyena mission is rage-inducing. Oh look, all my energy is gone! Again! Homing rockets one-shotting me! Again!

[Nira]

I started as Loki too, and whilst I had fun being the flimsy stealthy bloke I eventually got tired of having no damage-dealing abilities, as I lacked the weaponry, mods and catalysts necessary to do any decent damage.

 

I can proudly say I never gave in to the temptation of Rhino though. Oberon was my second frame.

 

On-topic, can see why Loki was removed from the starter bunch. He is quite a niche sort of frame, and in my opinion takes much more time to get accustomed to than Mag, Volt or Excal.

[Rekkou]

Excalibur - Warrior

Volt - Warrior/Support hybrid

Mag - Support/Pseudo Healer

 

These 3 fills the basic role, they are all rounder but won't take away the role of the more specialized warframe.

[Fugpo]

I was another one of those players who picked the hammer head as a starter, and to be honest back then I really didn't have much trouble with him.

 

I remember soloing a lot in the beginning, running Mercury over and over getting ready to play with other ppl and not looking bad XD. The game has changed though and playing now with unranked/unmodded frames feels a lot harder than it did before, there are a lot more enemies and procs can give you a hard time.

 

Really if I were to start from zero today, none of the frames would allow me to have the same beginner experience I had back then, I highly doubt I could survive through Mercury soloing like I did, and probably wouldn't have been hooked like I was (I would still be playing planetside 2 *shudders*)

 

In summary, the game used to be easier, it's remarkable that new players don't rage quit when running head first into a pack of hit scanning bleed procing Grineer XD

 

Edit: some typos

Edited December 16, 2014 by Fugpo

[Chroia]

I'd note, as of the current ability layout, loki would have nothing but decoy until like level 5.

<snip>

That wouldn't be entirely feasible now, and I suppose counter-acts some of the intended gameplay mechanics.

Excellent point. -_-

Have my +1.

[Hamsta]

I'd note, as of the current ability layout, loki would have nothing but decoy until like level 5.

 

The traditional method of handling loki is/was to use invis and run past everything until you're far enough to farm something easy/safe.

 

That wouldn't be entirely feasible now, and I suppose counter-acts some of the intended gameplay mechanics.

 

That's basically the same for all warframes. Most frames have quite useless 1st powers. (Like Soul punch, null star, freeze, etc)

[Nira]

Really if I were to start from zero today, none of the frames would allow me to have the same begginer experience I had back then, I highly doubt I could survive through Mercury soloing like I did, and probably wouldn't have been hooked like I was (I would still be playing planetside 2 *shudders*)

 

Aah, I actually made exactly the same transition. I'd enquire further but wouldn't want to derail another's thread.

[Grilleds]

Pick one:

 

-Because Loki is incredibly unimpressive in low level missions where Excalibur and Mag are just 1 shotting everything with their abilities.

 

-Because it did not make any sense for an "advanced" frame to be a beginner frame.

 

-Because people would just make a new account and start with Loki, then start trolling newbies with Switch Teleport.

 

-Because by the time his abilities start seeming impressive, you could probably unlock him fairly easily.

 

-Because he lacks damage abilities, which are the easiest abilities for a new player to figure out and require no real gamesense to use.

 

-Because his Invisibility shifts aggro to teammates. This isn't really a problem for high level players, but it can be a bit of a problem for a low ranked Loki in a mid level mission who doesn't have the damage capacity to make the best use of his Invisibility time, resulting in his teammates all getting shot by more enemies and the Loki not having enough energy left to go Invisible again to rev them.

 

-Because he's very squishy.

 

-Because unranked he is literally the single worst Warframe in the game, with bad stats and a lackluster decoy ability.

 

-Because he needs power duration mods to really shine, unless you are using him on high level defense missions in which case he needs power range for Radial Disarm.

 

-Because the correct use of Switch Teleport isn't obvious to people who haven't been playing the game for a while.

 

-Because there were clearly better picks for a starter frame (I would have went with Ash, but Volt is a good choice too)

 

-Because his abilities seem visually unimpressive at first when your teammates are zipping through enemies with one shot Slash Dashes and CCing whole crowds with Pull, while you are stuck with a boring Decoy skill. 

 

-Because the boss fight to unlock Loki is actually pretty cool, unlike literally every other starter frame.

[Damnation-Cleric]

the only reason i began with loki was because he looked awesome. honestly, i never found him that hard because he sort of matches my gameplay style in pvp fps games (weak but fast and stealthy)

 

essentially, he was the only reason I became so addicted to this game. and once i figured out the powers, i have found them to be ridiculously handy. I often glitch into walls, but can use a combination of decoy and switch teleport to escape

Edited November 8, 2014 by Damnation-Cleric

[Xeo_Nespydonum]

Loki is simply not a starter friendly frame, he has crazy low defenses and extremely technical skills that no one should expect a new player to fully understand let alone properly execute without high end mods.

[arolust]

I remember picking loki as my starter

 

It sucked, getting kills was difficult as other players tend to hit that 4 and nuke it all.

Made farming for stuff a B****.

[Spellcasterz]

Ah yes,Loki as a starter,fun times.

Made farming Rhino especially easy because you could just switch teleport Jackal into the pits of the boss room and instagib him

Though like people said,he isnt a very starter friendly frame.

He wasnt back then and he certainly isnt now with all the "new" enemy types around.

[Shin]

That's basically the same for all warframes. Most frames have quite useless 1st powers. (Like Soul punch, null star, freeze, etc)

Neither of those skills are useless. They have their uses.

[SoulEchelon]

Yeah I have to agree on Loki being removed as a starter frame.

 

One of my friends chose him because she ALWAYS chooses "hard difficulty" when playing a new game.

 

Because of the fact that Loki is heavily reliant on getting strong mods to compliment his abilities and make them last longer, my friend simply couldn't get into the game. She started off too weak, and felt like everything was more of a chore than a challenge. She got to Saturn I think and simply stopped playing since then. I mention Warframe to her and she talks about it as if it's a joke.

 

So yeah.. new player experience-wise, I have first hand knowledge that removing him as a starter frame was a smart move.

Edited November 6, 2014 by SoulEchelon

[Oriviagene]

Because new player is new player they're not advanced players yet...

[Grilleds]

Yeah I have to agree on Loki being removed as a starter frame.

 

One of my friends chose him because she ALWAYS chooses "hard difficulty" when playing a new game.

 

Because of the fact that Loki is heavily reliant on getting strong mods to compliment his abilities and make them last longer, my friend simply couldn't get into the game. She started off too weak, and felt like everything was more of a chore than a challenge. She got to Saturn I think and simply stopped playing since then. I mention Warframe to her and she talks about it as if it's a joke.

 

So yeah.. new player experience-wise, I have first hand knowledge that removing him as a starter frame was a smart move.

I had a similar experience in that all my friends who picked up the game and chose Loki as their starter ended up quitting shortly after. Only the friends of mine who picked Excalibur and Volt as starters still play.

[Mesyra]

This was one of several reasons why it didn't make sense to have Loki as a starter frame. 

I got loki as my starter frame. I hated him and he made me stop playing the game for nearly 4 months. then I learned that I could make new frames and I did that as soon as I could. Loki was a poor choice for an option to new players. Ash would be a great replacement for him instead of volt/Mag.

[d1sc1p1e]

i totally agree that he isn't suited as a starter frame, in fact of all of them Excalibur is the only perfect-for-starters frame, ESPECIALLY with the way the game uses tutorials now.

 

i would also recommend ditching Volt and keeping Mag so you can have a male/female option. Mag is an easy frame to learn, good speed, ok health and low armor are balanced by good shields and her offensive powers are cheap and devastating. in fact i run Mag exclusively in Rail Conflicts, right from the start Pull will down a whole squad, there isn't another power that will give you the same advantage so early on.

[TheKingOfAllNoobs]

Newbies tend to get hit a lot, since they are new to the game and don't know how to play well. Loki is about distraction and tricking the enemies, which requires good knowledge of the AI and tileset. Also it requires skill to execute his abilities effectively. That just doesn't cut it for newer players, who need offensive abilities to spam, especially if they don't have much gamesense or (don't want to) depend on their weapons a lot, which are pretty bad at the start. Mk-1 Braton... $5!tty.

 

Loki requires movement and distraction, which confuse the enemies. That is why he has low shields, health, and fast sprint speed. New players would usually just stand in open air and shoot, or melee. Loki would DIE. That was why he was removed from the game. Also, direct damage dealing abilities give newbies a sense of satisfaction, like, 'OMG I JUST KILLED THAT DUDE DOWN THERE WITH MY SLASH DASH OMG I'M SO PRO"

 

Although I joined the game way after Loki was removed, having watched so many Warframe videos, I can see why Loki just doesn't fit as a starter frame.

 

Also I can see how much of a troll he is.

 

Hope this helped.

Edited November 7, 2014 by TheKingOfAllNoobs

[niknya]

Loki tends to require some "Skill" to play. His abilities are quite advanced and some new players don't understand or know how to use them. It would be correct to exclude him from the starters.

[Zalgo]

Who replaced Loki?

[niknya]

Who replaced Loki?

Mag did, if i am correct.

Edited November 7, 2014 by SwiftyShades

[NovusNova]

Who replaced Loki?

 

Mag did, if i am correct.

 

It was Volt they put back in. Before the three starters were Excal, Mag and Loki. Now its Excal, Mag and Volt.

[(PSN)AltumCognitionis]

The reason they had rid of Loki for starting beginning players is because newer Bambi's and Noobs in Warframe can't really understand the true potential and overall power strength of certain Loki abilities like switch teleport and decoy. Many people think that Loki is really just about being a stealth frame and easily getting rid of enemy weaponry for an easy mission. But the decoy has the ability to throw enemies off of an objective in defense, or another example would be the fact that you could just switch teleports certain bosses off of cliffs like Lech Krill or Vor (mercury). Plus , beginning players dont have better mods like continuity or even corrupted mods like narrow minded or even fleeting expertise. So Loki is really a frame that players should experience later on. Considering he's so squishy.

[evil4458]

My 2 cents:

Loki was my starter frame (I aspire to be an 'advanced player', so that was obviously the choice for me), and I'm glad he was.

I think Excal is useless.

Mag is very susceptible to the starter Grineer planets, and very reliant on mods regardless.

Volt's an excellent frame, that I wouldn't have minded starting with.

 

But Loki is an excellent all-around frame(, and incidentally, the first I potatoed, once I finally decided to put my half-dozen potatoes to use). Very versatile, much useful.

The only thing that really scales off mods is Radial Disarm, and for low-level stuff, Decoy is more than adequate.

excal has better cc then loki IMO (radial blind), and he also have decent health, shields and damage skills