I Cannot Understand De's Decisions

[vaugahn]

The recent Buffs were to Excalibur. They nerfed Radial Blind and buffed Super Jump and Radial Javelin. They nerfed Radial Javelin.

 

The problem that people are having is that instead of addressing why people felt they had to go to Viver (Grind wall that does absolutely nothing to change the gameplay in any new and interesting ways) they instead nerfed the frames to stop Viver farming, but those nerfs will carry over: The LoS system already being finicky on whether it wants to or doesn't want to work.

 

Oh, I more than agree with you. This is at best a band-aid fix, the syndicate system (specifically the rep shop) is still deeply flawed. As for LoS, I've always supported putting it on just about everything as long as it works right. I don't currently own any of the affected frames, so I don't know how it's turned out.

 

But people making apocalyptic predictions every time anything happens is wearing thin on me just a little.

[Dull]

[Ionus]

NO!

[Xriborg]

I really don't understand why everyone is so surprised by this.

 

DE has demonstrated time and time again that they have a complete lack of forethought and long-term vision. It's in the lack of internal QA. It's in the ridiculous amount of new bugs that comes with every patch. It's in the ridiculous instability of every major update since open beta. It's in the abandoned, shallow, tacked-on systems that DE leaves unpolished and half finished every few months.

 

DE has bad leadership. Plain and simple. Warframe's success is in it's artistic design. The art, animation, and sound design teams carry this game with their consistently beautiful work. I'm sure there are other talented folks at DE on every level as well, but they're being drowned by leaders with a lack of understanding of their own product. Look at DE's development history, and some of the bombs they've been a part of. Star Trek 2013 comes to mind.

 

It's ok. I'll keep playing though. I've just been playing with the knowledge that Warframe will never become what I hoped it would.

[Deruser]

There were other ways to solve the viver crisis, like nerfing rep gain in interception missions in general, but instead, nerfing the warframes without any form of explanation besides viver makes it very distasteful. The warframes that DE nerfed were already bad enough.

Many people are still dissatisfied with super jump and yet DE still went ahead and nerfed another one of excalibur's skills. It's not a solution for viver.

[Flamingfighter]

Oh, I more than agree with you. This is at best a band-aid fix, the syndicate system (specifically the rep shop) is still deeply flawed. As for LoS, I've always supported putting it on just about everything as long as it works right. I don't currently own any of the affected frames, so I don't know how it's turned out.

 

But people making apocalyptic predictions every time anything happens is wearing thin on me just a little.

Yes, the LoS system is finicky. Abiltiies like Radial Blind, for lack of better words, just don't seem to work. You can cast it on an enemy directly in front of you point blank and they will be unaffected (and they are probably the reason you cast it), but an enemy 50 meters away will be hit. Debates on LoS aside, They've shoved one of the key abilities of all 3 affected frames into a system that just... doesn't work.

[Lost_Cartographer]

Then they are making the game for the minority?

No, they're making a game to last.  If the minority are the people that play for the sake of playing, nothing they do will REALLY keep the majority except in the spurts around a major update, so it doesn't really freaking matter - building for content locusts WILL end in catastrophe for the developer.  Nothing to debate here.  If ever there were a developer that could create and release major content releases every two weeks then yes, they could cater to short term, anti-grind content devouring players.  

 

No such developer exists.

[vaugahn]

Yes, the LoS system is finicky. Abiltiies like Radial Blind, for lack of better words, just don't seem to work. You can cast it on an enemy directly in front of you point blank and they will be unaffected (and they are probably the reason you cast it), but an enemy 50 meters away will be hit. Debates on LoS aside, They've shoved one of the key abilities of all 3 affected frames into a system that just... doesn't work.

 

I was honestly hoping this update would include LoS fixes. I would be very happy if they made LoS actually work and started applying it across the board.

 

Weirdly, Energy Vampire doesn't really seem to require LoS still. So I'm not sure what's up with that.

[Flamingfighter]

No, they're making a game to last.  If the minority are the people that play for the sake of playing, nothing they do will REALLY keep the majority except in the spurts around a major update, so it doesn't really freaking matter - building for content locusts WILL end in catastrophe for the developer.  Nothing to debate here.  If ever there were a developer that could create and release major content releases every two weeks then yes, they could cater to short term, anti-grind content devouring players.  

 

No such developer exists.

If most of your players are dissatisfied and only a small number can actually enjoy playing the game... how does this make sense. Syndicates are the endgame content, but it's not endgame. Endgame doesn't just stop once you hit a number cap. Endgame is something to do when you've hit that number cap. Syndicates are not this. Instead of turning the Syndicates into something that is more dynamic and interesting than an arbitrary number goal, people won't be satsified. People want something other than grind, and if Warframe can't deliver, then they will move on to one of the many many other games that are capable of stepping away from it.

[HolyDonut3]

I was honestly hoping this update would include LoS fixes. I would be very happy if they made LoS actually work and started applying it across the board.

 

Weirdly, Energy Vampire doesn't really seem to require LoS still. So I'm not sure what's up with that.

 

The LoS targeting on Shield Polarize appears to be far stricter than the LoS targeting of RB. You require 100% LoS of the entire enemy's body for it to work, as opposed to RB's ability to affect targets behind thin cover or even enemies completely behind cover for a short time after you saw them.

 

Not sure if intentional or bug.

[vaugahn]

The LoS targeting on Shield Polarize appears to be far stricter than the LoS targeting of RB. You require 100% LoS of the entire enemy's body for it to work, as opposed to RB's ability to affect targets behind thin cover or even enemies completely behind cover for a short time after you saw them.

 

Not sure if intentional or bug.

 

I haven't played Mag post-patch, so I don't really have any first-hand experience with that.

 

But between what I'm seeing with Energy Vampire and Radial Blind, the targeting seems to be very different for both. 

[Lost_Cartographer]

If most of your players are dissatisfied and only a small number can actually enjoy playing the game... how does this make sense. Syndicates are the endgame content, but it's not endgame. Endgame doesn't just stop once you hit a number cap. Endgame is something to do when you've hit that number cap. Syndicates are not this. Instead of turning the Syndicates into something that is more dynamic and interesting than an arbitrary number goal, people won't be satsified. People want something other than grind, and if Warframe can't deliver, then they will move on to one of the many many other games that are capable of stepping away from it.

 

Name one.

 

Interesting campaigns are interesting only once, and typically take a long time to make for a short time of enjoyment.  People will plow through it as fast as possible - as they always do - and then call it a day.  The cardinal rule as an author (DE = author) is to not give your fans what they want (loosely translated for game development of the long term kind - give them what they want in snippets and over long periods of time.)  The romance that is never confirmed until the end of the story is one common example of this.  Ever heard of the term "shipping?"  Romance lives on its shippers.

 

If most of Warframe's players aren't having fun, then they're not enjoying the core gameplay.  If the core game play isn't fun, that's not DE's fault - it was obviously fun when those players first got in - I doubt even one in 100,000 got in on the premise of collecting guns and warframes but absolutely hated shooters - but somewhere along the way they were no longer in it for the fun that got them into Warframe.  So, no... unless you can legitimately come up with SOMETHING that I can't justify wouldn't be beaten within hours without arbitrary grind walls or RNG hunts, as much as DE would like to develop for the majority, the fact is, if what the majority want is to "win" at the latest thing, making it easy or grindy will have to same result - people won't play because they have nothing to do (again) or because what they do have to do takes too long for their tastes.

 

Basically, this game isn't for everyone.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Littleman88

[Ishki88]

We will find out their logic friday.

 

Until then............try not get a warning point or banned for expressing your emotions

[KarmicRex]

I really don't understand why everyone is so surprised by this.

 

DE has demonstrated time and time again that they have a complete lack of forethought and long-term vision. It's in the lack of internal QA. It's in the ridiculous amount of new bugs that comes with every patch. It's in the ridiculous instability of every major update since open beta. It's in the abandoned, shallow, tacked-on systems that DE leaves unpolished and half finished every few months.

 

DE has bad leadership. Plain and simple. Warframe's success is in it's artistic design. The art, animation, and sound design teams carry this game with their consistently beautiful work. I'm sure there are other talented folks at DE on every level as well, but they're being drowned by leaders with a lack of understanding of their own product. Look at DE's development history, and some of the bombs they've been a part of. Star Trek 2013 comes to mind.

 

It's ok. I'll keep playing though. I've just been playing with the knowledge that Warframe will never become what I hoped it would.

 

I am sad because i think exaclty like you, but can´t keep playing knowing that warframe will never become what i hoped it would. the design and art is really amazing for any sci-fi addicted! But then we start to realize that the gameplay will not go anyway. Just new reinforcments, mods to grind, and grinding for the grind. 

[HolyDonut3]

We will find out their logic friday.

 

Until then............try not get a warning point or banned for expressing your emotions

 

There is no logic in this. It is completely unnecessary and unwarranted.

[-Noximilien-]

We will find out their logic friday.

 

Until then............try not get a warning point or banned for expressing your emotions

 

Logic? They nerfed these frames because of rep grinding. Because their own system is so damn bad people would rather sit still and press buttons than play the game. Unless they lighten up on the nerfs (Mag unable to restore their own shield? Seriously?)  this is only gonna drive a wedge into the old time player's devotion. It's like they don't want anyone from launch to stick around unless properly stockholm syndrome'd.

Edited November 13, 2014 by -Noximilien-

[Kaotyke]

I was honestly hoping this update would include LoS fixes. I would be very happy if they made LoS actually work and started applying it across the board.

 

Weirdly, Energy Vampire doesn't really seem to require LoS still. So I'm not sure what's up with that.

EV are energy pulses.... since when energy pulses require LoS?

Shield Polarize Magnetises the area around Mag.... since when that needed LoS?

RJ is just back the way it was before it became Radial instead of going from Excal.... different animations, same result.

[Ishki88]

There is no logic in this. It is completely unnecessary and unwarranted.

Like I said, we'll find out friday.

 

Luckily, I'll be at work.

 

I'll pray for you guys.

 

Going to play some Street Fighter.

[DJ_Redwire]

Regardless of the context of it all, or even the types of changes that were made, I do believe the changes that were made were extremely hasty. 

 

That being said of course, I'm nevertheless disappointed DE thought that swinging the nerf hammer around was the best solution to a much greater problem that extends well beyond the reach of Viver.

 

Maybe I'm speaking out of turn but it seemed pretty clear to me that the majority of people here on the forums and in game recognized and agreed that the major and ulterior issue at hand was at the core of the Syndicate system - not with some random node people like to farm a certain way. Regardless of one's opinion of Viver and its subsequent farming, I think most of us would agree the syndicate system's flaws are to blame for these imbalances.

 

Riddle me this - were any of these changes to interception or any of the frames necessary BEFORE the syndicate system was introduced? Perhaps I'm off base, but I think most here would answer with a resounding 'No.'

 

You have stepped from the path DE, tread carefully. 

[CephalonShy]

De, how far will you go in your denial quest, i wonder? How many frames will you nerf, before you'll admit that your flawed syndicate system is the root of the problem?

[Xriborg]

I am sad because i think exaclty like you, but can´t keep playing knowing that warframe will never become what i hoped it would. the design and art is really amazing for any sci-fi addicted! But then we start to realize that the gameplay will not go anyway. Just new reinforcments, mods to grind, and grinding for the grind. 

 

Walk away and play something else for awhile. You'll come back.

 

I've been through this cycle. Last time I quit was when DE implemented those horrid arc traps. If you weren't around for that fiasco, the arc traps USED to do giant chunks of burst damage, be hidden ANYWHERE on the level, and could easily oneshot some of the casting frames. Not only that, they could spawn at the beginning of the mission and literally kill you before you gained control of your toon. Everyone told DE it was stupid and to take them out, but DE refused. Concessions have been made since then, but DE has some sort of phobia towards removing anything, evein if it would improve the game.

 

But I came back because Warframe looks cool, and there's fun to be had. And everytime DE does their thing and poops the bed, I just shake my head and do something else for a bit.

[(PSN)The_Moustache]

I really don't understand why everyone is so surprised by this.

 

DE has demonstrated time and time again that they have a complete lack of forethought and long-term vision. It's in the lack of internal QA. It's in the ridiculous amount of new bugs that comes with every patch. It's in the ridiculous instability of every major update since open beta. It's in the abandoned, shallow, tacked-on systems that DE leaves unpolished and half finished every few months.

 

DE has bad leadership. Plain and simple. Warframe's success is in it's artistic design. The art, animation, and sound design teams carry this game with their consistently beautiful work. I'm sure there are other talented folks at DE on every level as well, but they're being drowned by leaders with a lack of understanding of their own product. Look at DE's development history, and some of the bombs they've been a part of. Star Trek 2013 comes to mind.

 

It's ok. I'll keep playing though. I've just been playing with the knowledge that Warframe will never become what I hoped it would.

 

I learned this in the first few months I was playing. I stopped playing due to multiple decisions I disagreed with and felt made the game worse, and the grind was just not fun anymore. It's sad to come back and see things haven't changed and actually may have gotten worse. I'm also hearing rumors of a possible resource nerf. That would insure I don't come back.

[Flamingfighter]

Name one.

 

Interesting campaigns are interesting only once, and typically take a long time to make for a short time of enjoyment.  People will plow through it as fast as possible - as they always do - and then call it a day.  The cardinal rule as an author (DE = author) is to not give your fans what they want (loosely translated for game development of the long term kind - give them what they want in snippets and over long periods of time.)  The romance that is never confirmed until the end of the story is one common example of this.  Ever heard of the term "shipping?"  Romance lives on its shippers.

 

If most of Warframe's players aren't having fun, then they're not enjoying the core gameplay.  If the core game play isn't fun, that's not DE's fault - it was obviously fun when those players first got in - I doubt even one in 100,000 got in on the premise of collecting guns and warframes but absolutely hated shooters - but somewhere along the way they were no longer in it for the fun that got them into Warframe.  So, no... unless you can legitimately come up with SOMETHING that I can't justify wouldn't be beaten within hours without arbitrary grind walls or RNG hunts, as much as DE would like to develop for the majority, the fact is, if what the majority want is to "win" at the latest thing, making it easy or grindy will have to same result - people won't play because they have nothing to do (again) or because what they do have to do takes too long for their tastes.

 

Basically, this game isn't for everyone.

Just about any game with PvP focus has an endgame.

Games with Special Dungeons and Raid Bosses classify as Endgame that people enjoy.

Even Perfect World has built some semblance of decent Endgame into a few of their titles (You have to go through their stupid cash shop to get to it, but still).

People don't still play WoW today because they add extra background grind numbers. And what Grind they do add, they do so in ways that engage you to keep playing other than seeing the number go up.

It is completely false to say EndGame that isn't just grind doesn't exist.

 

And to clarify, the majority doesn't want to "Win" as their endgame, the majority wants something to do after they've already won.

 

Warframe tried to do that, but according to polls the system is despised, likely because the mechanics are still broken, but it seems that they are done with Dark Sectors. You're right, Core Gameplay is good, but you have to eat more than one food group to get everything you need in life. You need dairy, fruit, vegetables, etc. in order to be happy and healthy. Eventually people are going to get sick of eating pizza every day of their life. Warframe needs to add something else to it's menu other than different pizza toppings.

 

Right now your entire argument seems to be that since Warframe has good core gameplay, that's all that really matters. Are you saying that new additions are unnecessary? Are you saying that Warframe should have stopped at Update 7, because the core gameplay was good enough? Should Warframe stop improving because you had fun playing the game back in July of 2013? No, Warframe should indubitably strive to get better if it wants to be a game people will still put their money into years from now. The devs have stated that they want Warframe to be what they are doing in the future, but developing for the small minority isn't going to cut it. To say that the vast number of players that have financially supported this game and want something to change for the better should just get out because this game is not for them is incredibly callous and counterproductive.

[Archaic_]

I totally agree with you. Too bad this will most likely be flamed out and/or locked my a mod before people get a chance to say anything. A testament to how they prefer to take the easy way out with everything. Such a shame to see this game die the way it is. :(

Most posts are being removed due to unnecessary display of criticism, in other words not constructive and purely disrespectful.  Don't start with silly accusations either.

[DemonHybrid]

please DE make some competent buffs. (and also incorporate a user tagging system so that we can summon you to important posts)