15.2.0 - Frame And Viver Nerfs + Syndicate Rep Problems Megathread

[Neocyberman]

I knew this would happen. The combined deficiencies in the various systems that lead to this added up and now everything is getting nerfed.

 

Why make substantive changes to the map, or syndicates or find out why players opt to grind mindlessly instead of playing other maps when you can take three frames teetering on the edge of viability and nerf them.

[Z123FFSS89]

I played viver and could care less about it getting nerfed. The whole syndicate process needs to be redone. When it was being called proxy wars I thought id be able to join an organization and fight other oganizations to earn rep which would lead me to obtaining equipment that couldn't be traded....some sort of endgame. I thought weapon augments would be some sort of orbs or whatever that's be able to boost weapons and frames...not mods.

Archwing is basic and I don't even play it because the missions are point a to point b....like every other mission.

Excal nerf wasn't needed. They did it because of viver. He went from being a great cc frame to a decent damage frame to a useless frame now. im not even excited about getting his proto skin now.

Mag I rarely played but to nerf her endgame ability to line of sight when line of sight has nothing to do with wavelengths traveling is dumb.

Trinity...my love..her nerf isn't that bad but wasn't needed. I can see blessing getting this same treatment in the future.

Limbo, we've been asking for a rework for him since he came out and they nerf him....WTF. They can make time to nerf his energy distribution but not make banish effect allies or cataclysm toggleable?

Nyx mind control.....I'm still not going to use this power because why control 1 enemy when I can control them all.

50 mod drop....lame should have fixed enemies disintegration effects that actually lowered fps.

Very disappointed.

[Draennon]

Thank you all for making my morning before I have to leave for work (not only meaning you guys in this thread, but also all patch related threads).

 

The pure fact that even most of the 'Viver grinders' were expecting a nerf of some kind shows, that they knew, DE won't like the way, things went there. So they did the one thing thats the fastest to do to stop the grind possibility... and that is obviously to nerf the frames involved rather than rearrange the map in whatever way. That would take more time, thus more 'damage' (of whatever kind it might be, there might not even be any, I don't know, just a guess) could be done.

 

I hit R3 with my syndicate just yesterday and I did not even try, aside from doing the daily alerts. Thats good enough of a pace without really putting any effort into it. Do you guys, who farm their way through syndicates like crazy even want the rewards for use? Or do you just want them, because they are there? I dare to say, it is the latter for the most part... "There is new stuff, must have NAOH! I don't need it, it is S#&$ and sucks, but I want NAOH!"

 

Alot of you guys need to relax rather than freak the hell out over changes in a game... provide them with some proper suggestions, rather than freak out over it. I know, that some good suggestions have been made, regarding the reputation system, but the only thing, that would pull Viver out of the whole 'issue' (don't know where it is one but... w/e...) is to disconnect reputation gain from kills/affinity gain. Everything else will involve either the map or frames being 'nerfed'.

 

So... RJ and SP don't hit enemies through walls anymore, about which you might not even know, they are there. Soooo.... how about, you move your lazy asses and get between the hoard of enemies? Too dangerous? Use RB first, to get a majority of them stunned... oooor... have a teammate stun/incapacitate them? No wait... that would involve teamwork, that would be ridiuclous, right? Since only standing in one spot, spamming your abilities to their maximum extend seems to be teamwork nowadays.

 

LeoDominus got it right, I personally think... some people should take a break... not because I don't like the way, they are playing, but because they are getting WAY too worked up over something like this. Stuff changes in the course of game development... I know, alot of you think, 'beta' is just an excuse, but that is just what Warframe is... a massive open beta. That means, big changes will happen, taken back, reoccur... over and over. What it requires from US as the community is: patience and constructive criticism. Oh and... if you find something, that could even possibly be a glitch/exploit/bug... report it, don't abuse it. I avoided Viver, since I would've felt like cheating myself, using this shortcut. Good for you, who did it... guess some of you don't 'have anything to do' anymore now. Which is btw reasonable, after putting a certain amount of time into a game.

 

I spend about 300 bucks on the game, over 1000 hours on steam, 700-800 logged ingame... I think, I got more than my moneys worth out of it, so even IF I would stop playing... doesn't matter.

 

That being said, while some of you guys, who dislike the changes big time provide good points as to WHY they dislike them, some others really need to take a chill pill. Stop calling everything useless, just because you don't like how it works anymore. Excalibur still wreaks hell, just not upon everyone in the next 3 rooms anymore. The room you are in, will still be empty...

 

Lets see what else will come from DE in the future. I know, I am looking forward to it.

[Kinnypuffs]

No wait... that would involve teamwork

"Breaking" That Viver required teamwork. It was because of the volume of enemies on such a small map that made it crazy for long ranged AOE frames.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Kinnypuffs

[Xeo_Nespydonum]

Thank you all for making my morning before I have to leave for work (not only meaning you guys in this thread, but also all patch related threads).

 

The pure fact that even most of the 'Viver grinders' were expecting a nerf of some kind shows, that they knew, DE won't like the way, things went there. So they did the one thing thats the fastest to do to stop the grind possibility... and that is obviously to nerf the frames involved rather than rearrange the map in whatever way. That would take more time, thus more 'damage' (of whatever kind it might be, there might not even be any, I don't know, just a guess) could be done.

 

I hit R3 with my syndicate just yesterday and I did not even try, aside from doing the daily alerts. Thats good enough of a pace without really putting any effort into it. Do you guys, who farm their way through syndicates like crazy even want the rewards for use? Or do you just want them, because they are there? I dare to say, it is the latter for the most part... "There is new stuff, must have NAOH! I don't need it, it is S#&$ and sucks, but I want NAOH!"

 

Alot of you guys need to relax rather than freak the hell out over changes in a game... provide them with some proper suggestions, rather than freak out over it. I know, that some good suggestions have been made, regarding the reputation system, but the only thing, that would pull Viver out of the whole 'issue' (don't know where it is one but... w/e...) is to disconnect reputation gain from kills/affinity gain. Everything else will involve either the map or frames being 'nerfed'.

 

So... RJ and SP don't hit enemies through walls anymore, about which you might not even know, they are there. Soooo.... how about, you move your lazy asses and get between the hoard of enemies? Too dangerous? Use RB first, to get a majority of them stunned... oooor... have a teammate stun/incapacitate them? No wait... that would involve teamwork, that would be ridiuclous, right? Since only standing in one spot, spamming your abilities to their maximum extend seems to be teamwork nowadays.

 

LeoDominus got it right, I personally think... some people should take a break... not because I don't like the way, they are playing, but because they are getting WAY too worked up over something like this. Stuff changes in the course of game development... I know, alot of you think, 'beta' is just an excuse, but that is just what Warframe is... a massive open beta. That means, big changes will happen, taken back, reoccur... over and over. What it requires from US as the community is: patience and constructive criticism. Oh and... if you find something, that could even possibly be a glitch/exploit/bug... report it, don't abuse it. I avoided Viver, since I would've felt like cheating myself, using this shortcut. Good for you, who did it... guess some of you don't 'have anything to do' anymore now. Which is btw reasonable, after putting a certain amount of time into a game.

 

I spend about 300 bucks on the game, over 1000 hours on steam, 700-800 logged ingame... I think, I got more than my moneys worth out of it, so even IF I would stop playing... doesn't matter.

 

That being said, while some of you guys, who dislike the changes big time provide good points as to WHY they dislike them, some others really need to take a chill pill. Stop calling everything useless, just because you don't like how it works anymore. Excalibur still wreaks hell, just not upon everyone in the next 3 rooms anymore. The room you are in, will still be empty...

 

Lets see what else will come from DE in the future. I know, I am looking forward to it.

Excalibur is one of the weakest frames at the moment, why would I even want to wreak hell with RJ when I can do it more effectively with my weapons ( that are meant to do damage ) when I'm effectively just exposing myself more with a long cast time that now gives no bonus of hitting what I can't see rather than staying on the move.  The problem isn't any of the frames specifically, it's just the way powers are set up in that the majority of them happen to be "win buttons" rather than interesting powers that make the game vastly different depending on what frame you're using.  I feel the entire idea of a nuke power shouldn't exist when we have weapons already.

[Educated_Beast]

Ive got a 6 forma excal I forma up when we had 10 mod slots.  I was a little disapointed when I lost 2 mods slots (I forma over all but 1 skill slot) and when radial blind got nerfed.  However, I was still able to play.  I found some fun with the new changes to excal, but now this.  My favorite frame was just nerfed for no good reason. 

 

1.)  Why not change viver to defence?  The map is to small for interception. 

 

2.)  Why not change the reputation system to be more rewarding? 

 

Punishing your customers is never a good thing.  For example, I just got the 50% off platinum bonus and was considering buying another package.  I will not be doing this. 

 

Fix the problem.  The problem is the grind. 

[RiouHotaru]

Honestly?  I use Excal a lot, and this "nerf" just requires you to be more aggressive to use RJ.  That's all.  And before anyone says "But you can't be more aggressive in high-tier survivals/defenses" Well yeah, but at that point you're not using RJ you're using RB, and the RB change is just fine anyway.

[Kaiser_Suoh]

Ive got a 6 forma excal I forma up when we had 10 mod slots.  I was a little disapointed when I lost 2 mods slots (I forma over all but 1 skill slot) and when radial blind got nerfed.  However, I was still able to play.  I found some fun with the new changes to excal, but now this.  My favorite frame was just nerfed for no good reason. 

 

1.)  Why not change viver to defence?  The map is to small for interception. 

 

2.)  Why not change the reputation system to be more rewarding? 

 

Punishing your customers is never a good thing.  For example, I just got the 50% off platinum bonus and was considering buying another package.  I will not be doing this. 

 

Fix the problem.  The problem is the grind. 

+1

[willis936]

Has anyone else played archwing tonight?  Notice anything about ability energy cost?  If you hadn't farmed for the elytron already gl because that's not happening anytime soon unless you're literally made of polymer bundles.

[Draennon]

Excalibur is one of the weakest frames at the moment, why would I even want to wreak hell with RJ when I can do it more effectively with my weapons ( that are meant to do damage ) when I'm effectively just exposing myself more with a long cast time that now gives no bonus of hitting what I can't see rather than staying on the move.  The problem isn't any of the frames specifically, it's just the way powers are set up in that the majority of them happen to be "win buttons" rather than interesting powers that make the game vastly different depending on what frame you're using.  I feel the entire idea of a nuke power shouldn't exist when we have weapons already.

That is a good point, actually... and I personally noticed that in higher levels, pure nuke ultimates lose their effectiveness completely... Excalibur doesn't do much then, Frost essentially only freezes the enemies for a second, before they eat his face, Ash doesn't do too much damage anymore, but at least it gives you time to breathe and regenerate shields. Oberon, Mag, Rhino, Vauban, Hydroid... all their ultimates have some form of knockdown, stagger, freeze, incapacitating effect that makes them still usable, even if they do barely any damage later on anymore.

 

So yeah I agree... things should be reviewed there, but all that won't stop me to play Excalibur. If I want to play a frame, I play it because I like the style of it, not because it can faceroll everything. But that is just my personal playstyle. Currently, I am running around with a tetra, Spectra and Dark Dagger. Those weapons are mid tier, i'd say... but I just like to use them, to not always use the same bloody setup. And they still get the job done until level 30 easily. But I guess, that is all a matter of how you like to play.

 

To get slightly back on topic...

In order to review all the abilities and missions, DE requires time... and more importantly proper feedback. I barely complain about stuff in games, because I have no idea, how to make it any better... so I am just happy with what I got. If someone provides some proper suggestions for them that end up being worked in, that would be awesome. Unfortunately though, things need to be tested properly by a huge crowd... WE are that huge crowd, so we will get changes that seem bad to alot of people at times. But thats the only way for DE to PROPERLY test it. And to get more feedback.

[Xeo_Nespydonum]

Ive got a 6 forma excal I forma up when we had 10 mod slots.  I was a little disapointed when I lost 2 mods slots (I forma over all but 1 skill slot) and when radial blind got nerfed.  However, I was still able to play.  I found some fun with the new changes to excal, but now this.  My favorite frame was just nerfed for no good reason. 

 

1.)  Why not change viver to defence?  The map is to small for interception. 

 

2.)  Why not change the reputation system to be more rewarding? 

 

Punishing your customers is never a good thing.  For example, I just got the 50% off platinum bonus and was considering buying another package.  I will not be doing this. 

 

Fix the problem.  The problem is the grind. 

The problem goes deeper than the grind; the grind certainly needs fixed but so do warframe powers as a whole.

[HolySlash]

Stop with this stupid frame nerfs ... That nerfs was RIDICULOUS, mag is now useless and viver farming will continue with diferent frames ... Make the system of reputation easier (precisely the difficulty to get reputation points that made the players seek ways to make the rank up of the syndicates decently possible to make) and re buff the warframes ... I repeat : THAT FRAME NERFS WAS STUPID ... This game seems like league of legends, where the champs get buffed/nerfed all the time ... Ridiculous ... Was good the way it was, stop screwing up with things all the time. Yes i'm raging, but understand my way, this is really getting boring, they nerf good frames all the time ... 

[RugerMK1]

Why did they nerf the frames? Couldn't they have turned Viver into that large Corpus dam interception map? Think taking a break and seeing the impact later of these changes is the right thing for me.

[Xeo_Nespydonum]

That is a good point, actually... and I personally noticed that in higher levels, pure nuke ultimates lose their effectiveness completely... Excalibur doesn't do much then, Frost essentially only freezes the enemies for a second, before they eat his face, Ash doesn't do too much damage anymore, but at least it gives you time to breathe and regenerate shields. Oberon, Mag, Rhino, Vauban, Hydroid... all their ultimates have some form of knockdown, stagger, freeze, incapacitating effect that makes them still usable, even if they do barely any damage later on anymore.

 

So yeah I agree... things should be reviewed there, but all that won't stop me to play Excalibur. If I want to play a frame, I play it because I like the style of it, not because it can faceroll everything. But that is just my personal playstyle. Currently, I am running around with a tetra, Spectra and Dark Dagger. Those weapons are mid tier, i'd say... but I just like to use them, to not always use the same bloody setup. And they still get the job done until level 30 easily. But I guess, that is all a matter of how you like to play.

 

To get slightly back on topic...

In order to review all the abilities and missions, DE requires time... and more importantly proper feedback. I barely complain about stuff in games, because I have no idea, how to make it any better... so I am just happy with what I got. If someone provides some proper suggestions for them that end up being worked in, that would be awesome. Unfortunately though, things need to be tested properly by a huge crowd... WE are that huge crowd, so we will get changes that seem bad to alot of people at times. But thats the only way for DE to PROPERLY test it. And to get more feedback.

I picked Excalibur based on his style as well and I've felt the changes really hard; to me it's very hard to see my favorite frame go from the king of crowd control to a basic nuker with an... invisible jumping skill and then to a weaker basic nuker. I want to see Excalibur live up to his name and become a true legendary swordsman with an ability set to fully compliment his style.  Jumping high isn't exactly what I call the style of a swordsman, especially when he could easily just be changed to have a directional slashdash and get something more theme-fitting for a 3.  Even that I think isn't enough for him, I would love to see him and all of the other frames taken back to the drawing board along with enemies.  A veritable Warframe 2.0 of balancing and rethinking of combat. 

 

I'm no genius but some players on the forums are and have been very happy to share their ideas for balance and I'd love to see more of it implemented in a massive rebalancing. Best to take bitter medicine in one gulp.

[Erusa]

I can't believe I'm actually thankful of an impulse purchase. I just bought Bravely Default yesterday and I think I'll sink time into it.

All these people have the right ideas, hopefully those will trickle down to DE. I mentioned this in the 15.1.3 thread, and people keep mentioning it as well, but we must stress it.
 

The problem with Warframe is that playing for fun is not rewarding, and playing for rewards makes for a hunt of extreme efficiency for it

If Rep gain is tied to Affinity, then Affinity must be looked at as well, Warframe abilities are now tied to Frame rank, but how much exp will you get by "playing normally"? Considering risk:reward ratio? I could run a high-speed Archwing Sabotage in Uranus, and run out of it with 34 exp and no loot just by "having fun blowing up the 'Death Star' in the fastest speed possible". That was a high-risk high-skill run as I practically end up pulling three or four sets of spawns to the Sabotage room as I attempt to blow up their core. (that's a little over 40 level 30ish mobs)

People might want to stealth around, but this also penalizes them by giving them lower loots and affinity. Not to mention how hard is it to stealth around due to spawn mechanics.

Syndicate system is just another icing on the problem cake. Warframe is like a pretty cake now, but when you eat it, it's hard, dry, and not very flavorful. Only a few candy flowers are worth tasting on the cake.

DE doesn't want people to rush through levels using their parkour and a graphical exploit they acknowledged as "no longer an exploit but a feature", DE doesn't want people to be clearing 108m diameter rooms with a skill that tapers off as levels go up, DE doesn't reward us for stealthily completing objectives and leaving no traces, what does DE want?.

Syndicate is only the flashpoint, the problem lies within the core as I stated in the 15.1.3 thread.

Remove Viver, people will find other nodes (Cerberus barely has 60m between C, D, and B. they can possibly be covered by two excals, maybe just one).

Nerf Viver spawn, Viver will merely be top-tier farm spot for T4 keys.

Nerf the frames, and you affect every single gameplay for those frames, hard. Enough that since Radial Javelin now works with LoS, Melee has always been lacking in damage for it's high-risk gameplay, Furious Javelin Augment is now worthless for a Rank 5 syndicate item, it's still good for making puns, but that's it. (a lot of people's Furious Javelins became limp and unappealing)

Interception mode change might be the only good reasonable thing here, it makes sense that we're intruding on active enemy communication towers, not setting up our own jammers. But in the light of almost everything else with the patch, nobody cares about it anymore. The same change also only served to make Archwing interceptions even harder than before, and that last Interception node was hard enough with all the missile spam and aim-bot level of Grineer accuracy.

Most of the ways you solve the underlying problem means going to the core, which will take a long time. But this doesn't warrant negative changes that renders even some frames obsolete. There's a reason why dirty fixes are dirty, and that is why you shouldn't rely on them.

But hey, thanks for the changes, now I can sink time into a game I hadn't been able to play on release, guilt-free~

[Ayarai]

What a terrible way to attempt fo fix the Viver farm, rather than putting the effort to it and fixing the root of the problem (Viver map layout) this seems like the lazy and far more destructive approach to the problem. So each time people find a way to farm something like that efficiently (and they will, as long as a gigantic grind like the syndicates exist) - can we just expect more and more of frame nerfs?

[MichaelSD]

Well, here is my opinion.

 

People should stop complaining  and notice that threads are being locked due to the myriad amounts of the same complaints.

 

Don't get mad about locking. I am not a kiss-up to the mods at all, but I do support the locking. They have a legitimate reason this time, if you hae been reading each thread like I have so far after this update.

 

Have a problem that makes you furious? Make a message and send it to the devs or maybe try to make a foundation for a megathread even.

 

We knew this was going to happen.

 

My idea? Make the whole reputation system be easier to rise in ranks and get those multipier sigils in ASAP.

 

No map changes. No nerfs. No complaints.

 

Over and out.

 

This will change nothing. People will farm Viver even with easier archivements. Archwing was a bad release on EVERY level and the house come crashes down. They knew it was wrong (polls, etc.) and they still implemented. So no, I keep complaining because I have time and the devs deserve it.

 

They can lock threads, but the people will be more furious.

[victor_victory]

The problem is not viver, the problem is the system itself.

People will only grind harder if DE nerf grind.

The only solution to grind is to delete grind and give us something interesting.

[MichaelSD]

The problem is not viver, the problem is the system itself.

People will only grind harder if DE nerf grind.

The only solution to grind is to delete grind and give us something interesting.

 

Exactly. The whole issue was looked at a wrong angle, despite the communities warnings.

[Dalawantahr]

When I updated the launcher, read the update notes, and I saw the the so called fix, my heart sank. My Mag got nerfed... she was my first pick, my first potatoed frame. Even bought her skin just because more players appreciate her more, bought her a new syandana too. Honestly DE I take this personally, I'm @(*()$ pissed. This feels like you're punishing me for playing Warframe. I don't have any positive feedback on this matter nor do I want to make one, your solution to this current issues is plain stupid, it's hurting. 

[GeneralArmchair]

When I updated the launcher, read the update notes, and I saw the the so called fix, my heart sank. My Mag got nerfed... she was my first pick, my first potatoed frame. Even bought her skin just because more players appreciate her more, bought her a new syandana too. Honestly DE I take this personally, I'm @(*()$ &!$$ed. This feels like you're punishing me for playing Warframe. I don't have any positive feedback on this matter nor do I want to make one, your solution to this current issues is plain stupid, it's hurting. 

This.  Before syndicates were introduced, no one had any complaints about Mag, Trinity ,or  Excal whatsoever.  (poor trinity.  Nerfed basically every wednesday).  Some of these frames were collecting dust in many player's closets as they sat there unused.

 

Then suddenly there is a niche they can fill that allows them to surpass the otherwise glacial accumulation of syndicate reputation?  NERF NERF NERF.

 

If DE were smart, they'd revert these changes and start looking at the root of the problem:  Herculean reputation requirements.

Edited November 13, 2014 by GeneralArmchair

[masterhobbes]

That's it, after 200 dollars spent, founders pack purchased, and tons of platinum I'm done. Keep nerfing S#&$ into the ground until the game is completely unplayable. Enjoy having no one left playing your game at the end of the day.

[unholyblood]

I've have played this game for almost 2 years now 2K+ hours in this game the problem i find is that farming Syndicate is the main problem for me since it's all that wasted time and by now i would have the amount of points for all the rewards ect,

 

I also don't like the nerf to Excal (Bad), mag (not so bad) and trin making trin next to useless now IMO.

 

The reason people wore doing Viver at least in my clan was for REP we don't need exp or mods anymore.

 

So intend of nerfing the frames nerf viver or just remove it or set a timer on spawns but add a more effective way to get rep like when reaching mastery x or y your points gets multiplied or adds more points for Syndicate missions or points at the end of a mission.

 

I don't post much but i feel this needs looking into T_T RIP Excal and Trin for now >_> i hope

 

EDIT: also quite a bit of money Grand Master and all Prime access but the first one so hope my opinion counts at least something still enjoy the game but stuff like this sometimes me rethink about stop playing this game sometimes

Edited November 13, 2014 by unholyblood

[BizarreFetalChimpanzee]

I'm highly disappointed with DE on this issue.

 

Instead of stepping back, taking a look at the core of the issue at hand and dealing with it via one of a myriad of fantastic ways proposed to deal with the issue, they just said "better nerf trinity" (literally) and added Mag and Excalibur to the nerf for good measure.

 

Poor decision after poor decision relating to every aspect of the game has resulted in me losing almost all confidence that DE is even competant, if at all, of what their customers are actually saying to them.

 

Save for the insane grind, I was actually interested in U15 overall, as it seemed to have potential. Honestly though, this update is telling me otherwise.

 

Looks like I'm going back to the other games I need to finish before sequels for them come out (lookin' at you, Witcher 2).

Edited November 13, 2014 by BizarreFetalChimpanzee

[OnlinePhenome]

Seriously? Nerfing frames to ground because a single node? I took Excalibur out of the closet after a long time because the buffs seemed "OK." But now he'll just be dusting in a corner again. Also, Mag's Shield polarize became beyond crap-tier. She can't replenish her shields reliably anymore and as a situational ability it's pretty useless against other factions than corpus anyway. The best support/ damage ability against corpus that scales; ruined. Also Trinity changes seem to be even worse, because it doesn't make sense. I stopped playing her after the earlier nerfs and now there is no idea playing her again. Nerfing her even further is pretty unfair.

 

This hotfix seems like a punishment to the exploiters, but it punishes everyone. Some people like me, didn't touch Viver even once. This isn't a real fix to the problem. I haven't forgotten how DE made Nyx' Absorb unable to take in magnetic damage. The way DE handle things has become really sloppy and "fixes" have become really flawed. Over the past year's time I have been aboard Warframe the situation hasn't been worse. More and more fatal flaws/ bugs keep arising, but DE only thinks of nerfing frames that make a flawed map exploitable. To some this is the last straw.

 

PS. DE, exploit the ToS less, please...

Edited November 13, 2014 by Irregardless_Existence