New Infested Lore. So Apparently They Just Came Out Of Nowhere. It Doesnt Work.

[SilentMobius]

This is just a thought about the Derelict in opposition to the "it's a testing lab gone wrong" theory: but could it be that the Derelict itself was designed to be a "Trojan Horse"? An Orokin ship ('cause it IS a ship, not a tower or other such thing) sent out and designed to look like an escape craft to draw the Sentients to it, with the intention of once they were on-board Infesting them to have it spread throughout their ranks and decimate their numbers. 

 

But it failed because, as Excalibur's Codex says, "they turned out weapons against us.", they escaped the fate the Orokin had planned and released the Infestation against THEM in turn. Starting the Great Plague that the Mire's info talks about.

 

We KNOW that whatever the Orokin tried first failed because of the Sentients, and we KNOW the Tenno were what they turned out after that failure (Excalibur's Codex). You're right, we DON'T know 100% that the Infested were the "weapons" turned against the Orokin by the Sentients, but I think it's a pretty good guess.

 

I disagree. If you look at the Mag Prime codex entry, and look at how unnerving and spooky the Tenno seemed to the Orokin Military soldier who is narrating. The Tenno were a _huge_ deal to them, something almost as scary as the Sentients themselves. If the Orokin had released anything like the infestation before the Tenno then the rank-and-file would be numbed to seeing monsters on the battlefield by that point. No, IMHO, to have the Orokin releasing the Infestation would ruin the story point of the Tenno being alien and feared. However the Orokin creating the Infestation as a backup plan, which was then considered to be used against the Tenno if they because "to big for their boots" _that_ give the Tenno a really good reason to take out the Orokin quickly _before_ they could release such a horror. It also give and almost Mary-Shelly-eque pathos with the Tenno that the Orokin created turning on them to prevent them unleashing more monsters. It also gives a good reason for the Tenno to actually be slightly sympathetic to the Infestation, as they are the same order of creation: People turned into war machines.

 

Also I think it _very_ likely that the Sentients are mechanical/electronic in nature not organic from this little slip from Steve:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/333548-major-game-breaking-flaw-for-those-who-chose-veilmeridian-as-a-syndicate/?view=findpost&p=3763647

 

At the risk of repeating myself - New Loka are freaks about humanity, the original. They see a machine as the opposite? A machine in their mind. What destroyed humanity in the 'Good ole days'? So I think its fair for them to hate and fear that most.

 

If the infestation was turned against the Orokin during the Sentients war there is no way New Loka would have anything to do with them.

[Mak_Gohae]

I think you're misinterpreting it. They woke the infested. They didn't just "pop up", they have been there, lost for centuries. The Grineer woke them but it fits in fine with the rest of the lore as long as you open your mind and get creative with what it means.

 

P.S. Derelicts are in the void, that's why you need a key.

 

Yeah pop up means that they were introduced into the game world at that point, that's exactly what Lotus says.

But that messes with the previous impression in the game. Now the Grineer hate us because Dr. Tengu lay the blame on us on top of that being the first appearance by the Infested in the world. It basically turned them into the Flood in Halo. And that makes it even worst.

 

And no the Derelicts are in normal space. The "key" is made up of the nav coordinates telling you where it's located. It's not an actual key to open something it's just data telling you were it's located.

[jj16802]

CONFIRMED: Grineer are the descendants of the Weyland-Yutani Corporation.

Edited November 15, 2014 by jj16802

[Doom_Bunny]

Well lets think about this. What was killed off around the same time as the orokin and has the excat same traits as the infested and technocyte virus?

 

The answer is, the sentiants.

 

Unfortunately it appears the grineer were able to revive the sentiant race. However as we have seen with their own cloning science the clone would be some what faulty or less then the original. Then there is also the fact that now this mutation of the sentiants is surrounded by a new age of races and tech which would change it's appearance even further.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Postal_pat

[Mak_Gohae]

CONFIRMED: Grineer are the descendants of the Weyland-Yutani Corporation.

 

Yeah, the outbreak story has been a standard at this point for this kind of stuff.

It would be slightly refreshing if this game moved a bit away from this.

[Mak_Gohae]

Well lets think about this. What was killed off around the same time as the orokin and has the excat same traits as the infested and technocyte virus?

 

The answer is, the sentiants.

 

Unfortunately it appears the grineer were able to revive the sentiant race. However as we have seen with their own cloning science the clone would be some what faulty or less then the original. Then there is also the fact that now this mutation of the sentiants is surrounded by a new age of races and tech which would change it's appearance even further.

 

I dont think we know anything about them expect that they can turn technology in their favor.

[Judgebanks]

I was always under the impression that we created the technocyte virus that created the infested.

[Mak_Gohae]

I was always under the impression that we created the technocyte virus that created the infested.

 

No, the Orokin did. The J2K Lephantis missions tells you that they were a weapon used in the old war.

[Tiqalicious]

Yeah pop up means that they were introduced into the game world at that point, that's exactly what Lotus says.

But that messes with the previous impression in the game. Now the Grineer hate us because Dr. Tengu lay the blame on us on top of that being the first appearance by the Infested in the world. It basically turned them into the Flood in Halo. And that makes it even worst.

 

And no the Derelicts are in normal space. The "key" is made up of the nav coordinates telling you where it's located. It's not an actual key to open something it's just data telling you were it's located.

I don't know how many more times it needs to be explained to you that you've taken this quest the wrong way before you listen.

The Lotus thought the infested were gone. The grineer had been collecting them secretly to experiment on them. The Lotus was surprised when you got to the ship and found out about it. She didn't know about the grineer's experiments and now because of their arrogance, a bunch of infested will be roaming around this part of the cosmos. That's it. That's all the quest is telling you.

[Kokurokoki]

ASPOILERS!!!!!!!

 

 

So the new tutorial mission for the infested says that the infested were JUST woken up by the Grineer screwing around.

I find that wack. The old ..... thing that we had was that they were just hanging out like some wild space pest taking over where ever they could. But now the story is that the Grineer JUST hit the Infested hive and they went nuts.

 

 

Oh and the infested have souls.

 

Keep in mind that these quests are for the new players.  They are all beginning quests that take place on the early planets.  Newbs haven't unlocked Ceres and the other infested planets yet, hence they will have never fought any infested before.  Chronologically this would make sense, although it does kinda mess with the canon a bit.

 

I also wouldn't say that the infested have "souls" per say.  The Lotus says "life energy".  We have no idea what that means other than "the energy that allows them to move/live/function."  It could be some form of inherent energy that all living things require to function, and that Warframes inexplicably are able to manipulate via the Void to a small degree.

[Kihana]

So apparently they just came out of nowhere. It doesn't work.

 

It works just fine actually. Not everything needs to be ( or should be ) explained in detail. There must always be some element of mystery.

 

They are like the monster in the movie that you never actually see. In the movie, it has artistic merit. Here, it has mystery.

[SilentMobius]

No, the Orokin did. The J2K Lephantis missions tells you that they were a weapon used in the old war.

 

Again, it doesn't say that:

 

a creature made to fight in the old war....the creature has grown unfathomably strong after centuries of absorbing matter and self-replication

 

All we know is that it was "made to fight in the old war" _not_ that it was ever deployed. None of the information we have from the time of the Sentients War mentioned any form of infested troops and the Stalker codex is quite clear that the Tenno won the War. Given the infestation's conspicuous absence from the Mag/Stalker/Mirage codexs/quests while they all talk about the Sentients War I'd say the default conclusion is that the Infestation was made for, but never deployed in the Sentients War.

[Mak_Gohae]

I don't know how many more times it needs to be explained to you that you've taken this quest the wrong way before you listen.

The Lotus thought the infested were gone. The grineer had been collecting them secretly to experiment on them. The Lotus was surprised when you got to the ship and found out about it. She didn't know about the grineer's experiments and now because of their arrogance, a bunch of infested will be roaming around this part of the cosmos. That's it. That's all the quest is telling you.

 

We all know what the quest is. What the quest implies is the problem. The quest says that its the Grineers fault that they came back.... or probably the Tenno for screwing around in one of their labs. This creates a new origin for the Infested existing in the game in the current time.

 

This creates several problems when you think about the game world. The most important one being infested-tech. So before the Grineer labs nobody was creating warframes? Cause warframes are made from some infested pieces. What happened to Tennos that were in cryosleep with no warframes? Did they go work at the Lotus offices and do office work before the lab accident? How was Nova created with no infested around?

[vaugahn]

We all know what the quest is. What the quest implies is the problem. The quest says that its the Grineers fault that they came back.... or probably the Tenno for screwing around in one of their labs. This creates a new origin for the Infested existing in the game in the current time.

 

This creates several problems when you think about the game world. The most important one being infested-tech. So before the Grineer labs nobody was creating warframes? Cause warframes are made from some infested pieces. What happened to Tennos that were in cryosleep with no warframes? Did they go work at the Lotus offices and do office work before the lab accident? How was Nova created with no infested around?

The Grineer reawakend the infested. They didn't create the infested.

[Mak_Gohae]

The Grineer reawakend the infested. They didn't create the infested.

 

Correct. We all know this.

[Doom_Bunny]

No, the Orokin did. The J2K Lephantis missions tells you that they were a weapon used in the old war.

Made by who though? It's in an derelict tower so the sentiants could of made it or the orokin made it and the sentiants took over arfter we killed the orokin.

 

I dont think we know anything about them expect that they can turn technology in their favor.

All three of them are doing the excat same thing which is converting everything into their own form. Next we see that both infested and the sentiants can not convert something that has void energy. This is shown in the derlicts were the infested have not touch the orokin vaults or the prime parts from ODD. The vaults and parts from the derelict suggest that these ships were made arfter, the orokin found void energy. Meaning that the sentiants had some level of intelligence to be able to stop void energy (at least the ship's energy) and take over a ship (one ship was probably carrying Lephantis). How the coordinated these attacks is up to debate but the most simplest answer would be for them to have a hive mind. Which would of allowed them to share information on these new ships much faster. However there only desire appears to be to "consume" the orokin, the only other race we know of that was alive during that time. This puts sentiants and infested almost directly in-line with each other.

 

We saw from the first tutorial and the event gate crash, that the grineer are able to open void portals. However they appear only able to open a gate on a ship in the derelict. Take a look in the tutorial, the room Excal is in is surrounded by infested vines. They probably retrieved a sample from the vines or a soldier was infected by the spores. Many soldiers might of been converted inside the derelict. From here they start to try and reproduce the virus outside of the derelict. This is were the quest begins.

[Mak_Gohae]

Wrong. That wasn't changing anything. That was simply them showing how they were introduced. The matter of Nova and Nova Prime are a completely different scenario.

 

They didnt change anything except what they changed.

Previous the Infested were always in the system and now they were introduced by the Grineer.

[vaugahn]

They didnt change anything except what they changed.

Previous the Infested were always in the system and now they were introduced by the Grineer.

 

Previous the infested weren't anything. There was no lore on why they were around whatsoever. They were just chillin, no explanation given.

 

Now there is an explanation for why there are outbreaks all over the system. No lore was changed, we just went from having no explanation to having an explanation.

[Travisk]

There's no reason to suggest that both explanations don't fit. Remember, the prologue was released long after the game came out, but it's still the beginning of the storyline for a player. This is how the infestation appears first in the storyline, and how it appears in-game first comes later in the story.

[Mak_Gohae]

Previous the infested weren't anything. There was no lore on why they were around whatsoever. They were just chillin, no explanation given.

 

Now there is an explanation for why there are outbreaks all over the system. No lore was changed, we just went from having no explanation to having an explanation.

 

If that was actually what happened i would have no problem but that's not the case.

The Infested had some lore which this new story rewrite and turns them into the generic escaped lab experiment instead of the cool space zombie weapon.

I mean, SERIOUSLY.... when was the last time a game had some space zombie faction NOT START as an escape lab experiment?

Its ridiculous.

 

Being an old weapon set free because their controllers are gone is pretty cool when you consider the current story is something that just about EVERYONE uses.

 

There's no reason to suggest that both explanations don't fit. Remember, the prologue was released long after the game came out, but it's still the beginning of the storyline for a player. This is how the infestation appears first in the storyline, and how it appears in-game first comes later in the story.

 

The reason is what Lotus says, she says that she thought they died with the Orokin. That states that they have been unseen in thousands of years.

And this completely kills the storyline when it comes to anything that deals with Infested.

Think about it... if the Grineer had not being messing around with the Infested then right now we could not build Warframes.

The biggest thing of this game, the ability to have many Warframes, is just because of some random event.

 

If it wasnt because of that Random event we would be on the same level as the Corpus and Grineer trading and buy Warframes.

It completely kills the story.

[Travisk]

If that was actually what happened i would have no problem but that's not the case.

The Infested had some lore which this new story rewrite and turns them into the generic escaped lab experiment instead of the cool space zombie weapon.

I mean, SERIOUSLY.... when was the last time a game had some space zombie faction NOT START as an escape lab experiment?

Its ridiculous.

 

Being an old weapon set free because their controllers are gone is pretty cool when you consider the current story is something that just about EVERYONE uses.

 

 

The reason is what Lotus says, she says that she thought they died with the Orokin. That states that they have been unseen in thousands of years.

And this completely kills the storyline when it comes to anything that deals with Infested.

Think about it... if the Grineer had not being messing around with the Infested then right now we could not build Warframes.

The biggest thing of this game, the ability to have many Warframes, is just because of some random event.

 

If it wasnt because of that Random event we would be on the same level as the Corpus and Grineer trading and buy Warframes.

It completely kills the story.

Why? Life is full of random events.

[vaugahn]

If that was actually what happened i would have no problem but that's not the case.

The Infested had some lore which this new story rewrite and turns them into the generic escaped lab experiment instead of the cool space zombie weapon.

I mean, SERIOUSLY.... when was the last time a game had some space zombie faction NOT START as an escape lab experiment?

Its ridiculous.

 

Being an old weapon set free because their controllers are gone is pretty cool when you consider the current story is something that just about EVERYONE uses.

Since you apparently don't get it: the Grineer did not create the infested

Did you ever wonder why the majority of the infested horde was made up of Grineer bodies? Yeah, now there's an explanation for that. The Grineer did not create the infested, they just provided a convenient vector for them to break out into the solar system at large.

The infested did not start as a Grineer lab experiment, the started as an Orokin lab experiment. They're still an old weapon running free due to their controllers being gone. We just now have an explanation as to why they're everywhere, and not just lurking in the Derelicts and Dark Sectors like they have been for centuries.

[Mak_Gohae]

Since you apparently don't get it: the Grineer did not create the infested

 

 

When did i say the Grineer created the infested? Can you please quote where you think you saw that?

 

Did you ever wonder why the majority of the infested horde was made up of Grineer bodies? Yeah, now there's an explanation for that.

 

You mean the minority.

There are way more troops based on Corpus bodies.

The only, i repeat, the ONLY unit that uses a Grineer body are the chargers.

Hek, if it wasnt for the design change on the ancients.... everything but one unit would be Corpus Infested.

 

The Grineer did not create the infested, they just provided a convenient vector for them to break out into the solar system at large.

 

Yes, this is what i have been saying from the start.

 

The infested did not start as a Grineer lab experiment, the started as an Orokin lab experiment. They're still an old weapon running free due to their controllers being gone. We just now have an explanation as to why they're everywhere, and not just lurking in the Derelicts and Dark Sectors like they have been for centuries.

 

Yes, this is what i have been saying from the start.

But i do not like the fact that they now exist* in the solar system because of the Grineer lab accident.

Previously they were just part of the solar system, something always there.... which probably explains why there are more corpus infested than anything else. Because they are the one that control the rails and travel around more. The probably spend more time meeting them.

 

*this word has more than one meaning.

[HyokaChan]

 

Basically Halo.

[Mak_Gohae]

Why? Life is full of random events.

 

This isnt real life! This is video game life!

So DE created a game around this armor and decided to use the name of the armor as the name of the game and the decided that whole story revolves are some luck?