Problem With Walls: Mesa Is Grindwall, Waitwall, Rng Wall

[RealPandemonium]

This is going to be the new standard; has been since Mirage (and arguably, Hydroid) and won't change because it encourages players to buy Platinum.  Nonetheless, it could be way worse.  At least this encourages us to pace ourselves and do mundane missions instead of burning through every content update in a single session.  

[AsuraKyu]

Hate to say it again, but this does have PWE's stench all around it. If DE doesn't think PWE's track record isn't enough proof to know not to listen to them, then of course, ultimately warframe will suffer and die like just about every other PWE game. Hopefully they catch this soon.

 

Really killed your hype train with this one DE which is much worse for business. You just delayed everyone's hype and expect them to still want to do this a month from now? They won't care, it's a game, and people have lives. I like the OP's suggestions. If you're going to fix it DE, do it fast.

[BoomyGordo]

Hate to say it again, but this does have PWE's stench all around it. If DE doesn't think PWE's track record isn't enough proof to know not to listen to them, then of course, ultimately warframe will suffer and die like just about every other PWE game. Hopefully they catch this soon.

 

Really killed your hype train with this one DE which is much worse for business. You just delayed everyone's hype and expect them to still want to do this a month from now? They won't care, it's a game, and people have lives. I like the OP's suggestions. If you're going to fix it DE, do it fast.

 

Looks like DE is taking some lessons from PWE tho.

 

I can't count the amount of times I ran Hek to get Hydroid. It's agitating. If DE thinks I'm gonna cave in and throw them some money to get this frame, they are sorely mistaken. All this does is remind me why I shouldn't give DE my money.

take all of my upvotes. im not giving DE my money if they are going to try to force me into it with these walls. I have a Hek that can 1shot level 50 corrupted heavy gunners and 2 shot up to level 120 heavy gunners. I want to have fun with this game, not be forced to play this 24/7 just to enjoy a certain warframe that may turn out to be crap.

 

DE took a good step with buffing sydicate rep gain but this a giant step back for them.

[BoomyGordo]

at this point i honestly would like some kind of respons from DE, is this going to be changed or are these walls and RNGesus staying?

[Cradicias]

Lephantis is the reworked golem

 

They're also making a new J3 Golem which will most likely be on Eris. Check the live streams, it looks dope!

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Looks like DE is taking some lessons from PWE tho.

 

Considering I had a friend who quit the game in part because of Vauban Helmet alerts never appearing, and considering the fact that I play Kiste Ceres and defense on Ceres to level up, yet it's been months since I had the parts to craft a Hek Key, and considering that despite my Brakk luck (even though I didn't want it) there are people who have been trying since Gravidus ended to get it, no, I don't think it's PWE.

 

I just got the friend I mentioned above to start playing again. He was very impressed that he didn't need to sacrifice anything to the RNGods for Mirage. Too bad it looks like there's only a few weeks until he becomes frustrated again (as a PS4 player).

[Demon-King-Lamb]

I remember when Nekros came out. It was a bit of grind wall to et to the boss. Find nav's. Build mission. Find boss nav's. Build boss key. But after time of collecting nav's became much more easier and not so bad after they nerfed the build times.

 

But the waiting for another mission with a reward for Alad V nav is disgusting. I'm glad there is a new boss. But I don't want to wait and hope to RNG gods for 1 single nav reward.

 

Sure I may be a casual player. But holy S#&$ I hate this! So for the OP I agree. Put add the Alad V nav drop to the new infested enemies. Then it would be much more tolerable. Like Nekros. After time I'll have more than enough to build the keys and help other players.

[Buzkyl]

Hate to say it again, but this does have PWE's stench all around it. If DE doesn't think PWE's track record isn't enough proof to know not to listen to them, then of course, ultimately warframe will suffer and die like just about every other PWE game. Hopefully they catch this soon.

 

Really killed your hype train with this one DE which is much worse for business. You just delayed everyone's hype and expect them to still want to do this a month from now? They won't care, it's a game, and people have lives. I like the OP's suggestions. If you're going to fix it DE, do it fast.

 

 

take all of my upvotes. im not giving DE my money if they are going to try to force me into it with these walls. I have a Hek that can 1shot level 50 corrupted heavy gunners and 2 shot up to level 120 heavy gunners. I want to have fun with this game, not be forced to play this 24/7 just to enjoy a certain warframe that may turn out to be crap.

 

DE took a good step with buffing sydicate rep gain but this a giant step back for them.

 

 

People are so quick to say every form of Grind is PWE. When it has existed even before PWE was mentioned, Hydroid, Kubrow farming, Zephyr with oximum on it's initial release, even nekros at the time of release people compare the

 

The RNG wall (to find the nav co-ordinates)

The Time wall (1 hours for each derelict key)

The RNG wall (to find the golem navs in the derelict)

The Time wall (Goelm Key taking 6 hours)

The RNG wall, getting the part you want, fortunately nekros was the first frame to always have it's parts drop, then other frames followed after.

 

(sound familiar to our latest frame?)

 

It's obviously different now.

 

But where was the talk of PWE then?

 

People are too quick to hop onto the "it must be PWE forcing DE to do this", bandwagon

[BoomyGordo]

People are so quick to say every form of Grind is PWE. When it has existed even before PWE was mentioned, Hydroid, Kubrow farming, Zephyr with oximum on it's initial release, even nekros at the time of release people compare the

 

The RNG wall (to find the nav co-ordinates)

The Time wall (1 hours for each derelict key)

The RNG wall (to find the golem navs in the derelict)

The Time wall (Goelm Key taking 6 hours)

The RNG wall, getting the part you want, fortunately nekros was the first frame to always have it's parts drop, then other frames followed after.

 

(sound familiar to our latest frame?)

 

It's obviously different now.

 

But where was the talk of PWE then?

 

People are too quick to hop onto the "it must be PWE forcing DE to do this", bandwagon

i should have carified, my upvote was for the "Really killed your hype train with this one DE which is much worse for business. You just delayed everyone's hype and expect them to still want to do this a month from now? They won't care, it's a game, and people have lives. I like the OP's suggestions. If you're going to fix it DE, do it fast."

[Buzkyl]

i should have carified, my upvote was for the "Really killed your hype train with this one DE which is much worse for business. You just delayed everyone's hype and expect them to still want to do this a month from now? They won't care, it's a game, and people have lives. I like the OP's suggestions. If you're going to fix it DE, do it fast."

 

 

Oh, in that case, i agree completely. While i am  a patient person when it comes to farming, we have essentially 5 days to get a frame that was release druing thanks giving, when events are normally 7 days. The event Lore was well done, but the the amount of effort to get Mesa killed alot of her Hype.

 

It's not even like limbo where the hardest part was the archwing section, she's just grindy to acquire and nothing to really set her apart from other frames, despite people not liking limbos aesthetics he at the very least had an original design concept and even has his own mechanic.

[DeathwingZero]

we have essentially 5 days to get a frame that was release druing thanks giving

What does the event have to do with Mesa? The nav co-ords don't come from the event, thus the 6-ish days of the event is inconsequential. The blueprint for the key to Mutalist Alad V is from the quest, which is a permanent addition to the game, and the co-ords for the key are rewards from infestation invasions, which have been a thing for quite a while now. 

The event is largely just to introduce the new infested enemies, and to throw a couple rewards at us for killing hundreds of them. 

[Xriborg]

Let me paint the picture for a solo player, like myself.

 

 

 

Wait for invasion mission with coordinate. Run that mission 3 times.

 

3

 

Get 3 coordinates.

 

3 * 3 = 9

 

Run Boss mission to get part.

 

(3 * 3) + 1 = 10

 

 

 

You need to run 10 missions for one piece. Assuming you're super lucky and get what you need each time, that's 30 missions MINIMUM. That's the grind IF you're a lucky person. If I take my luck from obtaining Hydroid (11 runs) and apply it here, that's 110 missions I'm looking at.

 

Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

[Buzkyl]

What does the event have to do with Mesa? The nav co-ords don't come from the event, thus the 6-ish days of the event is inconsequential. The blueprint for the key to Mutalist Alad V is from the quest, which is a permanent addition to the game, and the co-ords for the key are rewards from infestation invasions, which have been a thing for quite a while now. 

The event is largely just to introduce the new infested enemies, and to throw a couple rewards at us for killing hundreds of them. 

 

The quest is a permanent addition? Oh that makes alot more sense, i was under the impression it was there solely for the event duration to return at another time

[HAYABU5A]

i think at this point..  i cant be bothered anymore, unless it was new content that was so game chaning to be worth it buts just more of the same old thing

 

but i dont blame the game, thats just how games are, you just have to choose as a individual how you want to invest your time and how valuable your time is

basically grind = trading time (not skill or merit) into acquisitions in game, RNG will just make it faster or slower via pure luck

 

hats off to those who have massive amounts of time to sink and/or the ability to resist boredom/repetition

thank you to DE who provides us with so much new content all the time, they work hard to produce new content without it we will fall off the hamster wheels

[BoomyGordo]

i think at this point..  i cant be bothered anymore, unless it was new content that was so game chaning to be worth it buts just more of the same old thing

 

but i dont blame the game, thats just how games are, you just have to choose as a individual how you want to invest your time and how valuable your time is

basically grind = trading time (not skill or merit) into acquisitions in game, RNG will just make it faster or slower via pure luck

 

hats off to those who have massive amounts of time to sink and/or the ability to resist boredom/repetition

thank you to DE who provides us with so much new content all the time, they work hard to produce new content without it we will fall off the hamster wheels

same.. im almost fed up with the game. its no longer grind for items its now grind so you get a chance to grind for another chance to grind for a piece that might be the same as the last 5 you got. grinding for the sake of grinding is the most unfun thing and is what has been the down fall of many a MMORPG that had massive potential.

[DSpite]

Yes, lets once again jump on the "it's all wrong wagon" a few HOURS after something is released. Assumptions made:

 

* The content is "as is" and will never get changed or tweaked.

* No feedback based on people running missions, and giving results on how long its taking rather then wild @$$ guesses.

* No bugs or code issues that still need fixing are skewing results.

 

You people do this every. Single. Update.

 

Pretty sure "feedback" would of sounded like "based on numbers it seems like it might take too long to get the new Frame, is this intended?" and not "WTF were you people thinking with RNG walls, keep this up and I will never give you money again".

Edited November 28, 2014 by DSpite

[BoomyGordo]

Yes, lets once again jump on the "it's all wrong wagon" a few HOURS after something is released. Assumptions made:

 

* The content is "as is" and will never get changed or tweaked.

* No feedback based on people running missions, and giving results on how long its taking rather then wild @$$ guesses.

* No bugs or code issues that still need fixing are skewing results.

 

You people do this every. Single. Update.

 

Pretty sure "feedback" would of sounded like "based on numbers it seems like it might take too long to get the new Frame, is this intended?" and not "WTF were you people thinking with RNG walls, keep this up and I will never give you money again".

 

try reading my original post, it pretty much did everything you just said i should have done. I explain how theres very little chance of people actually being able to do this if they have lives beyond sitting on warframe forever.

[TheDoctah]

Glad people are starting to see this horrible trend and aren't settling for this anymore. DE needs to get creative now. They announce new content and you can bet 99.9% of the time it's gonna be behind some ridiculous rng  grind wall. This game could be so special but is constantly pushed back from being something really special cause of design choices such as this. Makes me question the future of this game. Will it just be a grind wall till the end of time or are we going to see something a little different from this trend? I'm still waiting to see. I didn't get Hydroid for this very reason, and if every warframe is gonna be released this way, then I would be surprised to see this game hold people for a long time aside from the very loyal players. Let's see if DE does some changes to their development plan. Cause this can't be the best they can do... or I certainly hope not.

[DSpite]

try reading my original post, it pretty much did everything you just said i should have done. I explain how theres very little chance of people actually being able to do this if they have lives beyond sitting on warframe forever.

 

Try REREADING my Post, where it said "adjustments get made all the time", and you are basing your results on an update that has been out HOURS.

Edited November 28, 2014 by DSpite

[BoomyGordo]

Try REREADING my Post, where it said "adjustments get made all the time", and you are basing your results on an update that has been out HOURS.

which i have ever every right to. You said i needed do feedback a certain way which i have. Anyway i can say that they have been recently doing this kind of thing over and over. i know adjustments are made all the time, they adjusted syndicates but my post mainly focuses on them constantly releaseing new grindwall content and then changing it to non grindwall later. Im trying to call to light that grindwalls/waitwalls/rngwalls are not the way to do new content

[Xriborg]

Try REREADING my Post, where it said "adjustments get made all the time", and you are basing your results on an update that has been out HOURS.

 

He's giving feedback in a constructive way, even if it's negative. That's what this forum is for. We can reread your post as many times as you request, doesn't make it any less wrong.

[nickelshark]

These kinds of things make me want to play the game less. Feels like they are trying to force people who are working and social to just buy Mesa. I might not get her till sometime next year to be honest. Nekros and Lephantis was done well and this model should have been kept. Instead they add grind(Vay Hek beacons) and now we have a wait wall on top of RNG(Mesa). I really want Mesa but I am not so sure anymore.

 

I would actually be more inclined to buy her if she dropped off a boss like lephantis or if Alad was on a node.

[HAYABU5A]

These kinds of things make me want to play the game less. Feels like they are trying to force people who are working and social to just buy Mesa. I might not get her till sometime next year to be honest. Nekros and Lephantis was done well and this model should have been kept. Instead they add grind(Vay Hek beacons) and now we have a wait wall on top of RNG(Mesa). I really want Mesa but I am not so sure anymore.

 

I would actually be more inclined to buy her if she dropped off a boss like lephantis or if Alad was on a node.

i was going to buy mesa, simply because i liked her art design and theme

but when i saw the same old tired mechanics to acquire her even more convoluted for players i decided to completely avoid her on principles sake

 

so ironically i know many people who feel the same and it actually ends up working against the model, repulsive in nature instead of enticive

 

still appreciate the work of the art and design team, just this time from a far distance 

[HuzzelMuzzel]

Every critics say, warframe have potential but the grinding is to bad. DE knows that,they will not change it, so people get frustraded, they stopp to spending money and then they stopp playing... its so sad

[BoomyGordo]

Every critics say, warframe have potential but the grinding is to bad. DE knows that,they will not change it, so people get frustraded, they stopp to spending money and then they stopp playing... its so sad

broken english aside this sums it up quite well