Quests: How They Were Meant To Be Grindless

[noveltyhero]

Hey guys,

 

NOTE: This is my personal opinion.

 

Remember when quests were first released and Scott said that they are meant to be the break/slope between grind and reward? Forgot which stream it was though, but I am sure somebody can find the clip of Scott talking about them

 

Any who, what the heck happened with the newest one? See DE there comes a point to me where the grind wall is so obviously huge that the climb is not worth it.

 

I'll be honest, I was not excited to start the Limbo quest and I am not excited for having finished it. I am not excited for the Mesa quest either, only clicked begin because the Lotus would tell me every 5 seconds to do so >.>

 

Please DE, there are other ways to keep us playing other than endless grinding that is not fun.

I will grind, and so will the other 90% of the community but please make it fun, do not make it a chore and we will grind all day every day 24/7 with no issues whatsoever. I know this is an issue but I find it hard to care for any new content nowadays..

 

It is always like "Hey look at this shinny, but give me your soul first" so I just don't bother, Hydroid, Limbo and Mesa are all wasted opportunities to bring something meaningful.

 

Limbo quest was boring because it felt exactly like Mirage's quest only worse because it lacked any interesting bit (the riddles). Hydroid pretty much sucks to get because Vay Hek is so damn boring and Mesa...well we all know how that turned out.

 

 

I've played tougher MMOs when it comes to grinding however they distracted you with progression. When Ember P came out I grinded with my Paris P, nearly a year later I am with my same damn gear, same damn mod loadout doing the exact same thing over and over. That gets tiring even for the best grinders in the world.

That is what I am getting at, maybe if we had a new movement system or an extremely rewarding stealth mode or whatever we could enjoy the grind.

 

Basically we don't necessarily need more things to do, but more ways to do things. Such as a more complex map system so you can run circles around you objective instead of just being forced through the one, the only and the same 3 by 2 door.

 

 

That is just me, but what do you guys think?

 

 

PS. Here I suggest several ideas to be added in conjunction with the grind in order to make it more bearable:

Quests:https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/289398-how-to-improve-quests-goals-and-the-system/

Dynamic world (star chart):https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/326160-how-to-create-a-more-dynamic-world-with-lore-and-reason-behind-it-dynamic-mission-distribution-per-planet/

Farming frames on solar system:https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/316508-how-to-farm-a-warframe-boss-part-farming-feedback/

Small bits of lore:https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/262718-how-to-leak-more-lore-audiovideotext-logs/

And there are so many more things to be changed/added that will just improve the game in general other than time walls and foundary content, such as gore.

Edited November 29, 2014 by noveltyhero

[TheErebus.]

For the first time, I actually agree with this. 

They kept on saying how quests will change things, but it obviously seems like they haven't done anything to change them.

 

It's funny, they said that the quests will reduce the RNG and grind, but the RNG gods and grind grabbed them and forced them under their rule. 

[Ov3rd0se]

It's probably only getting worse from here.

[TheErebus.]

It's probably only getting worse from here.

I disagree, if we show DE that they aren't making it better then we can make them change it.

[noveltyhero]

It's probably only getting worse from here.

That's why we need to say something and not to tell DE to stop, but to change past content as well.

[Magnagar]

I agree too. Limbo took forever because of the grinding. God I hated it >_< and now Mesa has the same huge wall. I'm sick of grinding... Considering that's all I've been doing with everything else. I'd rather have a long quest line then a long grind fest. At least ill be doing something different each time.

[Rakshal]

Agreed, I haven't even started Limbo's quest because of the grind wall I heard it has.

[noveltyhero]

Agreed, I haven't even started Limbo's quest because of the grind wall I heard it has.

Here is my summary of that quest:

-Painfully listen through what Ordis says (I am one of the few that actually liked him before) for AGES

-Play an annoying interception mission in Archwing

-Acquire parts in most boring way imaginable, with 12 hour wait walls

-Receive most boring frame yet (yeah he sucks at everything, I mean he is good at reviving but even that my Loki can do better)

[xRufus7x]

Technically, Mesa isn't part of the quest, getting the craftable locator is the end of it. Just saying.

[noveltyhero]

Technically, Mesa isn't part of the quest, getting the craftable locator is the end of it. Just saying.

Yeah but doesn't help the fact that the quest is really just like Hydroid except it has an intro to the grind :/

[sedu13]

Just like Endgame wasn't going to be grinding, but that ship has sailed.

[Ritchel]

if the infestation invasion for alad v's coordinate pops up 1mission per hour 2hrs , it would not be as frustrating atleast for me.
ive played other mmo's where the grind is much tougher, but im not saying that should be the same with warframe

because implementing long grinds just to keep players only shows how uncreative the people behind the ideas.

but i think no matter how they say that they want to reduce the grind, it will not happen.

its the business model.

it might be just a week till the mesa quest be changed to be an easier shorter grind/wait ,

because im assuming they want to make it appear to be hard at first to push excited players to

somehow buy plats and buy it over the market. 

"you always get what you pay for."

Edited November 29, 2014 by Ritchel

[Archistopheles]

They also have gotten better with distractions. The event and Syndicate weapons are distracting the common player from realizing how deep the grind is for Mesa.

Outrage might not reach peak levels until the 5th or so.

[slykidd]

agreed. when i read the requirements for building the assassination key for alad v i was like ffs. we dint like it with Nekros we told em and got ignored. we told em with Hydroid and got ignored. mirage's quest was bleh at best and limbo want that bad but RNG kinda f***** it up. and now mesa.... AND ANOTHER THING why do we have to wait 6-12hrs for the quest to even finish crafting. that's a S#&$ty time wall. urrgh DE stop it with the time walls and ridiculous requirements im already playing warframe daily what more do you want from me???? 

I think we as a community need to be quicker on the draw. we know DE moves fast with changes. we should really keep up.

 

I mean I wanted to start a thread about how syndicate mod card are basically taking over the standard's mod cards but i fear its too late to say anything.

Edited November 29, 2014 by slykidd

[noveltyhero]

I mean I wanted to start a thread about how syndicate mod card are basically taking over the standard's mod cards but i fear its too late to say anything.

Half of those damn mods should be buffs to the actual thing, I see them as a way to avoid buffing what needs to be buffed. Right now I fear for the direction of this game.

 

I mean we don't have lock boxes yet, right? Yet...

[noveltyhero]

-snip-

I've played tougher MMOs when it comes to grinding however they distracted you with progression. When Ember P came out I grinded with my Paris P, nearly a year later I am with my same damn gear, same damn mod loadout doing the exact same thing over and over. That gets tiring even for the best grinders in the world.

That is what I am getting at, maybe if we had a new movement system or an extremely rewarding stealth mode or whatever we could enjoy the grind.

 

Basically we don't necesarily need more things to do, but more ways to do things. Such as a more complex map system so you can run circles around you objective instead of just being forced through the one, the only and the same 3 by 2 door.

[Archistopheles]

Half of those damn mods should be buffs to the actual thing, I see them as a way to avoid buffing what needs to be buffed.

Last time we mentioned bandaids, they weren't really happy to talk about it.

[xLaNn]

Half of those damn mods should be buffs to the actual thing, I see them as a way to avoid buffing what needs to be buffed. Right now I fear for the direction of this game.

 

I mean we don't have lock boxes yet, right? Yet...

 

˄this ive been playing since u7 and the way DE makes things changed  a lot for the worse. and its a shame because i like this game, but every update is a new and more absurd rng/time wall + lots of nerfs instead of fixing the real issues

[Arvenski]

You know what else I'd like to see? Quests with more missions that are actually different from the regular missions. Why did I have to do 3 pointless hive sabotage missions as part of the Patient Zero quest, to say nothing of the literally nightmarish mission that followed ("Destroy Alad's Lab Ship", or somesuch).

 

IMO, quests need to have three things: 1, good storytelling: In some places they've done alright with this (Vor's Prize, for example), and in other places it could be a hell of a lot better. 2, at least somewhat original gameplay/missions: These make the quests a hell of a lot more immersive, as they make you feel like you're doing something special, something more than the everyday crap. Again, they've done a bit of this, but a lot more is required. 3.) Less focus on grinding than regular gameplay. Seriously, what's the point of a unique quest if it's just going to turn into another grindfest?  

[noveltyhero]

You know what else I'd like to see? Quests with more missions that are actually different from the regular missions. Why did I have to do 3 pointless hive sabotage missions as part of the Patient Zero quest, to say nothing of the literally nightmarish mission that followed ("Destroy Alad's Lab Ship", or somesuch).

 

IMO, quests need to have three things: 1, good storytelling: In some places they've done alright with this (Vor's Prize, for example), and in other places it could be a hell of a lot better. 2, at least somewhat original gameplay/missions: These make the quests a hell of a lot more immersive, as they make you feel like you're doing something special, something more than the everyday crap. Again, they've done a bit of this, but a lot more is required. 3.) Less focus on grinding than regular gameplay. Seriously, what's the point of a unique quest if it's just going to turn into another grindfest?  

I completely agree, I already gave my feedback on older quests not feeling like quests.For example that introductory quest to the infested, that was pretty cool when we had to plant the bomb but imagine if we saw the whole thing go down? As an extraction bonus.

 

Or the new Alad one, what if the Corpus board agreed to assist you if you help their captain. You start off by deploying on Corpus ship and you go to save him then you take a Corpus assault ship to quickly take back the battleship (start with a badass Halo intro) etc..

Imagine that...perfection.

[Zeptimus]

 

Vay Hek is so damn boring

wat

[noveltyhero]

wat

What?

-Spend a lot of time waiting for him to "open up" and then maybe take his health down a notch

-Run around maps killing same boring units, hoping Vay Hek doesn't absorb one of them to only make your last 10 minutes a complete waste of time

-Chase him around as he can fly wherever/whenever he wants but chooses to die in front of you

-Farm a lot to get a damn beacon

-Hope you get the right part for Hydroid

 

He is exciting in his last phase though, but that is about it. Sadly :/

I like him as an idea/concept of a character, he could've been Warframe's own Vaas or Joker but ah well

[Judge_Hellboy]

Quote:

"When Ember P came out I grinded with my Paris P, nearly a year later I am with my same damn gear, same damn mod loadout doing the exact same thing over and over. That gets tiring even for the best grinders in the world."

 

A year later you're still here doing the same thing? Sounds like to me they're doing something right for you.

[bejuizb]

Welp, I've been playing Warframe since April 2013, and yesterday was the FIRST time I bought something with Platinum, that being Mesa. The Quest was a shoddy hash of Hives and "mystery", while in reality it was a standard mission with a tiny bit of narration (decent, mind you) and some Nightmare mode aspects thrown in. I finish the quest, take down notes (like any loremonger would), and what am I faced with? A downright STUPID grindfest to get to the new content, that being the new Alad V, and the new frame. 

 

Yeah. No. Been doing that since U8. The old way to get Banshee will probably take me lesser time than Mesa. 

 

The Quests are just becoming more of a narrative version of standard missions, which makes then "Missions+" rather than Quests. 

[Comrade]

I actually got Banshee the old way faster than mesa, but that's just RNG and such.

After three days of hunting for invasion missions, i got a key and put a key share squad together.

three helmets and a systems. Guess i'll have to wait another three days to get another key, and then twelve hours to craft the parts, then ANOTHER three days to craft the frame (if i don't just rush it, which at this point is tempting)

If the current system is going to stay, could we at least get more common missions rewarding these coords? I have clanmates who have done 8 runs and are still missing parts for mesa, four runs all dropping the same part, and others who gave up on mesa.

 

The Mirage Quest, in my opinion, was done right: You do the missions and guaranteed get the part drop, wait for it to craft, then get the other parts. No keys, no extra waiting past the part crafting, and a storyline that doesn't suck. Why did the formula get reversed back to RNG and waitwalls so quickly?