Get Rid Of 10 Rank Mods: Ten Rank Legendary Ravage Edition.

[Innocent_Flower]

Just because "I don't have to" doesn't make it alright. I "don't have to" use damage mods on tier 4 survival. Tier four survival exists because we have OP weapons and OP mods. I can choose not to be part of the cycle: but that cycle isn't affected by the removal of only one piece. 

[Sakatchi]

Your ideas are pretty ok. But theres one glaring flaw, and that is if you reduce the power of the mods, youd have to rebalance the entirety of the tiers. SInce a ton of items require you getting 30+ mins into tier 1 2 3 and 4 in various missions, the lessened mod power could make it that much harder, and that would have a unwanted effect of making stuff more expensive due to its diffaculty to obtain.

 

Its litteraly less work for de to just ignore your sugestion and release new mods.

[akira_him]

As a Rank18 player the only fully ranked 10-rank mods I have are serration and hornet strike

not every 10-rank mod required to be fully upgraded, especially those corrupted mods

not even mention some of them are virtually useless even if they are fully upgraded

but I like the idea of branch out mods

Edited December 6, 2014 by akira_him

[Moonsword86]

I just did some quick maths, to rank up a mod all the way to rank 10, using just copies of itself to do the ranking, you will need 1024 of the same mod to do it, including the mod you start with.

That is a lot of mods, I think that this system needs to be looked at and balanced a bit better.

[RyouichiKitsune]

i honestly like powering up my mods...but when i sink 34 r5 fusion cores into a mod and it only increases its bar by 1/4th? i get a lil pissed off by the 1 mil credits i just spent to get NOTHING.

[Innocent_Flower]

Your ideas are pretty ok. But theres one glaring flaw, and that is if you reduce the power of the mods, youd have to rebalance the entirety of the tiers. SInce a ton of items require you getting 30+ mins into tier 1 2 3 and 4 in various missions, the lessened mod power could make it that much harder, and that would have a unwanted effect of making stuff more expensive due to its diffaculty to obtain.

 

Its litteraly less work for de to just ignore your sugestion and release new mods.

I'm actually very comfortable with the idea of DE rebalancing the tiers. 

 

Thay're paid to work. That shouldn't be a problem. They could do a huge kubrow project but they can't do this? Nonsense!

[fatpig84]

Yes DE can re-work the mods if they want to.

But they won't.

 

First these mods are valuable source of platinum.

Plat always has to come from somewhere, so if someone buy these mods, he already has injected money to DE.

Assuming he buys one at 350 plat, he would have paid $19.99 USD (the 370 plat deal before those discounts) to DE.

 

Secondly, fixing these mods will cause a huge outcry from mod buyers.

DE will have to face a ton of unnecessary charge backs which isn't fun for them.

Edited December 6, 2014 by fatpig84

[DSpite]

i honestly like powering up my mods...but when i sink 34 r5 fusion cores into a mod and it only increases its bar by 1/4th? i get a lil &!$$ed off by the 1 mil credits i just spent to get NOTHING.

 

Perhaps if you put one of those mods in your Glaive it will actually start working properly.

 

I'm actually very comfortable with the idea of DE rebalancing the tiers. 

 

Thay're paid to work. That shouldn't be a problem. They could do a huge kubrow project but they can't do this? Nonsense!

 

So glad you are comfortable. Too bad you are not running the company? Or actually paying them?

 

... or actually coming up with good ideas?

 

That last point REALLY needed pointing out.

[Burns2PvP]

Ranking anything up past 5:

 

-Tedious. Credits, cores, time. It takes players away from the game play and to a combining mini-game that's anything but fun. 

-Means that you'l probably want several midway mods. (unranked, rank 2, rank 4, rank 6,8)  Also very expensive

-Often times there isn't a point. each increment is so small that you'd be better off doubling each rank's strength and keeping it at five ranks for the same results. 

-Feels like a very lifeless way of getting stronger and a huge cause of powercreep. Look at 440% increases to health and shields. Just silly. 

 

I find myself getting to rank 8 and looking at what it'd cost to get rank 9 and 10. Seems rather fruitless really. I think players would rather a player-centric system. What we've got currently is intimidating to new players and in some places central to the oversized powergap between low and high level content. 

 

Is this really necessary? 

They're ridiculous. Each rank offers so little, Because you need to rank them so high they cost so many polarity points. As such a few of these mods aren't used because alternatives are so much better. 

 

Ok, I could have argued that way better. But objectively it'd be better to have, at the most, five ranks. 

 

"but Wait" You cry, "I spent money/time getting that to rank..." or " but it's such a powerful mod that you can't just double it's power without increasing the cost" 

 

Mod system 2.1 :There are several solutions to those perfectly valid responses. 

 

Don't always have mods increase cost by 1 every rank. You can increase it so that a mod's cost goes up by 2, or 4 every rank. (the .5 being rounded down) or perhaps a powerful mod could scale poorly in it's increase in cost (1,1,2, 2, 3. If we were to apply that to Vitality we'd have 2 (unranked),3,4,6,8,11(maxed)

 

Branch out

Say you get to rank 5 of serration. You can try to rank it up to 6. When you get to rank 6, the mod is consumed. you could then choose between resetting the mod as "wounding serration" or "consuming serration". Getting instead a dual stat variant of your preference to re-level. Perhaps those mods will have their own branches too. Progress would not merely lead to more power: but more variety. With some technical difficulty: I'm sure DE could find some way to refund rank 6+ mods with a player's chosen branch mod of appropriate level

 

  If all else fails: legendary cores. 

 

This could help greatly with Warframe's jacked level scalling too. Look at say.. Vitality with it's 440% increase at max rank. You're multiplying your health to 5.4 times it's original value. Say we cut that in half. 220% is big enough to favour players without making them outright demigods at low levels. At the same time if the scaling was cattered towards players with only tripple health then players could do high ranking missions without the mod as a challenge rather than as a suicide. The players who upgrade their mod beyond rank 5 and onto the next series of mods don't become capable of crazy amounts of health, but rather get the same amount of health as normal mod users with an extraneous bonus. (220% health with slight regen, or 220% health with a bonus from pickups) 

 

Came in here ready to troll. Read and completely, 100% agree.

[armando92]

IMO the rank 10 mods are fine as they are, you dont have to rank them if you dont want to.

Now the cost to equip some mods, that has to get reworked, and i am talking about the new archwing mods and some of the kubrow mods

[Aggh]

R10 mods are one of the few things that keep the trade economy that really makes this game f2p afloat.  If it's too tedious, trade for them.  This game has always had a pay or grind model of play, don't expect that to change any time soon.

 

 

I just did some quick maths, to rank up a mod all the way to rank 10, using just copies of itself to do the ranking, you will need 1024 of the same mod to do it, including the mod you start with.

That is a lot of mods, I think that this system needs to be looked at and balanced a bit better.

That's why you use fusion cores.  It takes 384 r5 fusion cores to max a r10 rare mod, 256 for an uncommon R10 mod, and 128 for a common r10 mod.  And they're not even especially hard to farm now with T4 survival giving out packs of five almost every 5 minutes :|

Edited December 6, 2014 by Aggh

[Braken]

I completely agree with the OP. Rank 10 mods are a pain.

 

I'm shocked at the responses, though. Why are so many fine with such a massive, pointless time-sink?

 

The economy excuse, quite frankly, is kinda stupid. There isn't really that much of an economy in the game right now, since trading is still pretty limited. I think Corrupted mods, stances, and Prime parts are traded WAY more often than maxed rank 10 mods, anyway.

 

Seriously, what's wrong with wanting less grind in a game? I mean, getting rid of Rank 10 mods won't even cut into DE's profits, as raking mods up doesn't involve plat. (And no, the mod packs and fusion core packs don't count. No one buys those enough to really make a difference for DE.)

Edited December 6, 2014 by Braken

[fatpig84]

I completely agree with the OP. Rank 10 mods are a pain.

 

I'm shocked at the responses, though. Why are so many fine with such a massive, pointless time-sink?

 

The economy excuse, quite frankly, is kinda stupid. There isn't really that much of an economy in the game right now, since trading is still pretty limited.

 

Seriously, what's wrong with wanting less grind in a game? I mean, getting rid of Rank 10 mods won't even cut into DE's profits, as raking mods up doesn't involve plat. (And no, the mod packs and fusion core packs don't count. No one buys those enough to really make a difference for DE.)

 

No one is silly enough to buy gold fusion core packs.

Why spend 80 plat on those ?

 

With 200 plat and it can easily net you a Serration or Redirection at Rank 10.

And that is where big amounts of plat are being spent on and that is where DE actually earns from.

Edited December 6, 2014 by fatpig84

[mooser6]

- Nope. Honestly I, if a five rank maximum policy was established I wouldn't mind if some mods are doubled in price to rank up.

Unless you're talking about reducing the strength of these mods (is that what you're suggesting?), then making them rank up twice as fast and become maxed at rank 5 is the exact same thing as making mods cost half as much to rank up. It's like arguing whether you have 6 donuts or a half dozen.

 

- Correct, You don't. But at the same time if you go to a low ranking planet (there's lots of reasons why you would) and forget/don't bother to take off your uber mods... you're going to have a boring mission with no challenge whatsoever.

The only time I ever cripple my frames is when the challenges pop up requiring certain (low) conclaves. I've already completed the star chart and put in the work to max my mods. Had a good time doing it, but I'm over it now. If I need to run a mission on a lower level planet I prefer to get it over as quickly as possible. Never heard of anyone taking mods off because they want to run an alert on Earth. I doubt you do this, I would have a hard time believing anyone who says they do.

 

- If the copies are different: are they really copies? 

I dunno, you tell me. You're contradicting your original statement now. If you have several copies of a mod at different power strengths, now you're suggesting they're not copies because they're different. Besides you need lower power copies to prevent you from facing boring lower level missions, right? :/

 

 

Honestly, it seems like a lot of complaining about a problem that doesn't exist. When you look at Warframe long term playability, what is there? If you're playing it just for the action it's pretty repetitive. The people who have a lot of hours into the game (such as me) are still playing because we want to complete everything, collect everything, max everything out, etc... For a completionist, it's pretty good as it is.

 

I do think the concept of mods having two branches that can be ranked individually to affect the final mod stats is a very interesting idea. This is the first time I've heard it and I like it.

[fadeinlight]

I say keep it as it is.  Even at small increments, there is at least some satisfaction in knowing that you're getting a return on work you put in to a mod or frame.

 

The loss of two slots has made it so that a new player can pretty quickly make a frame that is equivalent to one that we might have invested 4-6 forma into.  In my case, that represents about six weeks of effort vaporized in one update.  For players such as myself, that enjoy putting a lot of effort into the few things we like before we do anything else, that little bit of difference is a source of...well, pride, honestly.  The Mastery setup already favors those who like to jump from one thing to another.

 

If the difference between ranks really is that insignificant, then the only thing left is an argument that is based on feelings, basically:  you don't want to have to invest a lot of effort to become equal to someone that did, so you want DE to erase their ability to differentiate themselves (even if that only means they go 2.5% faster in their Archwing).  That really isn't fair to the people that invest their time and effort to make the best frames they can.

Edited December 6, 2014 by fadeinlight

[Innocent_Flower]

Even with a five rank system and mod branches you'd still get the feeling that you're getting something out of ranking mods up. You'd probably get more; You get to make intellegent choices and customisation choice. "Do I want the redirection that gives a 3.5% chance of ignoring damage per rank; or the redirection that changes my shields to resist impact more and puncture less?" 

 

That'd probably help trading.

 

 

Seriously. It doesn't matter that I personaly can't be bothered to fully rank a 10 mod. You're clutching at straws even trying to bring that up. There's dozens of more important reasons for wanting rid of the 10 rank system. Go tackle those instead. I was thinking that I'd get a biased response based on the fact that forums are for the most invested players and invested players generaly have and want to protect their best stuff... but some of you guys take the cake. You gain nothing from holding onto this awful status quo and nor does anyone else. 

[armando92]

Even with a five rank system and mod branches you'd still get the feeling that you're getting something out of ranking mods up. You'd probably get more; You get to make intellegent choices and customisation choice. "Do I want the redirection that gives a 3.5% chance of ignoring damage per rank; or the redirection that changes my shields to resist impact more and puncture less?" 

 

That'd probably help trading.

 

 

Seriously. It doesn't matter that I personaly can't be bothered to fully rank a 10 mod. You're clutching at straws even trying to bring that up. There's dozens of more important reasons for wanting rid of the 10 rank system. Go tackle those instead. I was thinking that I'd get a biased response based on the fact that forums are for the most invested players and invested players generaly have and want to protect their best stuff... but some of you guys take the cake. You gain nothing from holding onto this awful status quo and nor does anyone else. 

 

because i dont see what the problem is, with T4 rewards you get 5 rare cores as reward most of the time (in t4s you get a lot each 5mins), ranking mods to rank 10 isnt that hard like it was before

[Innocent_Flower]

the problem isn't the dificulty. the problem is that it's boring. (and bad for scalling) 

[armando92]

the problem isn't the dificulty. the problem is that it's boring. (and bad for scalling) 

 

boring is subjective, i find it fun, something to do when i have nothing else to do in warframe

bad for scaling? how? you keep upgrading your mod as you keep playing the game and when you face high levels you have your dmg mods at high rank.

[Davoodoo]

And the point of this is what exactly? What overall improvement will this make? I see none, and "less tedious" is not a valid reason.

No matter how much i would like to agree, less tedious when something is made to provide fun is reason enough for me.

[inappropriatename5818]

As much as I hate 10 rank mods I don't think they should "remove them".   

 

I think they should remove SOME of them which make no sense like Hyperion Thrusters and Tainted shell if I had to pick from your list. Those make 0 sense, 396 R5 fusion cores and 1.3 million credits for 30% sprint speed?   

 

Some of them need to be hard to max like Narrow Minded, it would just be straight up insane if you could just get 99% duration for like 30 fusion cores.   

 

Also, these mods are a big part of the trading system and they reward players for putting time and effort into a game (the ones that don't suck that is)

[mooser6]

Ok, I could have argued that way better. 

I think if you can provide a better argument, then you should.

 

Right now your OP makes several points about how it sucks to rank mods up to 10, anything beyond 8 you say is too tedious. Well, it's your opinion. I didn't have any problem doing it, I enjoyed it. You haven't really offered what the problem is, you say it's not the tedium but the first 3 of 4 points you listed are focused on the tedium that you perceive.

 

Your solution is based on reducing tedium :: make each rank cost twice as much and give twice the stat increase. Again you're focused on the tedium. This is your words, not someone else's so don't accuse of grasping at straws when this is what you have presented.

 

 

It's been said already a few times, you don't need rank 10 mods. If you don't like it, just rank them to 8 and be done with it. You said it yourself, the increases between ranks are small. If you don't want to spend time, credits, and cores on for a couple more small increases... no problem.

 

If you have problems with specific mods it probably would have been better to start separate threads instead of "get rid of rank 10 mods".

 

If you have a problem with power gap balance, you should have focused on that instead of picking on rank 10 mods.

 

The mod branching idea is interesting, but should also be it's own thread.

[mooser6]

Also, I agree that there are a handful of mods in the game that are either useless or need a rework. There are already threads about many of them. Getting rid of rank 10 mods doesn't solve anything.

[Innocent_Flower]

But it does. Did you not read the part about powercreep

Or the part about mission difficulty

Did you not consider build variety

Or merely the will to make every mod viable, as opposed to a few super-powered neccessary ones against a few Would-be-kinda-useful-if-they-did-something-versus-their-cost mods. 

[BrazilianJoe]

I think that it should be the exact opposite, all mods should have a 10-point variation.

 

All mods should have common/uncommon/rare tiers.

Common versions would cost less mod points and have larger bonuses per-level, but only 3 ranks. 

Uncommon mods would be middle-of-the-road, but have 5 ranks. 

Rare mods would have a lower bonus per rank, but go all the way to 10 ranks. 

 

it would be balanced so that common mods reach 50% of the rare version when maxed, and the uncommon mods reaches 75% of the rare version when maxed. 

 

Canonical example: Serration.

 

Serration re-released as a common/uncommon/rare mod would be shaped like this: 

 

Common version: 3 ranks, 4-7 mod points cost

22.5% bonus, max 90% bonus

 

Uncommon version: 5 ranks, 6-11 mod points cost

20% bonus, max. 120% bonus

 

Rare version: 10 ranks, 6-15 mod points cost

15% bonus, max 165% bonus (this is the current mod version)

 

By having all mods with more powerful versions with 10 ranks, we would have a system which is impossible to have everything maxed with a single build, people would be able to max one aspect, and there would be many more options available for the player to make meaningful choices about their loadout. 

 

It's the opposite of the 'broken mods' concept. THe broken mods are weaker versions of the mods with smaller bonuses AND less ranks. This system would heave the mods with less ranks with stronger bonuses per-level, giving the player more incentive to play with his mod balance budget for the card. 

Edited December 8, 2014 by BrazilianJoe