[Pvp] Syndicate Hit-Squad -- Introduce Tenno Player(S)

[-Edrick-]

Disclaimer:

If you are unable to provide any constructive feedback/suggestions, Here is a forum thread where there would be others who would share your opinions (as the title says), "PvP in this game is so bad like its really bad..." Cheers.
https://forums.warfr...d-in-fact--that -I-needed-to-say-it-twice-in-this-title/

And for everyone else thinking about posting non-constructive feedback...keep in mind what the moderators of these feedbacks mentioned of "the good way to answer" ...you can get reported..so please read this... https://forums.warfr...-way-to-answer/

To the point...
The purpose of this thread is to suggest added content/feedback to PvP in warframe.whether or not this is an accepted concept, I am simply just one of many that would like to see more PvP content/modes that Can be both rewarding and immersive in warframes Lore. Here are some of those thoughts...(thread was made on the Dark Theme on the forum)

After a Syndicate Sends a Hit-Squad (after the targeted Tenno) and fails, instead of repetitively sending in the same Hit-Squad (of Rollers?! really?), the Syndicate should then send their next best weapon: Another Tenno [Player]; one who is Exalted/Trustworthy in their Ranks. Fight Fire with Fire! :)

------------------------------------------------------
Legend:
Green Text = Newly added Suggestions
Red Text = Modified Suggestions
------------------------------------------------------

This may help with Syndicate Lore/Rank Immersion and a whole new game mode using the mechanics that already exist in the game.
Much like the entrance of the hit-squad or stalker, the Tenno player can have dialogue that are catered to the language style, attitudes, personalities, or characteristics that each Syndicate uniquely has. Allowing players to feel even more immersed with their Syndicate. See image below:

Arbiters of Hexis Contract Killer

As you might've guessed this will incorporate a new a PvP game mode.
Now before I get any bashings or hate (please don't)...As a veteran since U9, a collector of all frames and items, and a former (actually, i still am) hardcore PvPer, I obviously love this game enough to support PvPers and New PvP content.

There could be suggested mechanics/game modes of how it 'may' work out for Syndicate PvP...if you all know any more suggestions, please feel free to add more to this topic. I'll try my best to keep adding/updating more if this post gains any interests...

 

PvP Damage Scaling/Balancing will hopefully come into play one day. Whether coming from armor pieces, sigils, or whatever DE decides. But putting that asides for now, what types of game modes could be incorporated with some of the current content in warframe? Particularly with the Syndicate System; as this idea of Tenno being hunted by hated factions seem to be a fitting for some sort of PvP. Since Tennos in general are literally treated as "guns for hire (as evidence in Faction Invasions)." Sure they serve the lotus, but the fact that a Tenno can "choose" who side with there is also the Chance that there Could be Tenno who would be against the lotus or against their fellow tenno as well (e.g., stalker). So it's plausible that there could be Tenno that could serve a Syndicates' cause more passionately. Hence the possibility of hunting down other Tennos opposing their Syndicate.

 

Which now brings me up to some of these types of modes: (these modes will be subject to changes/adjustments based on the progressive discussion/feedback provided--as I know its not perfect or a final "suggestion" at all)

 

"Stalker" Mode:
Must Be tier 5 rank of any Syndicate to access this 'Contract/Assassination/Hit-Squad Mode.'
- Toggle able. Once accepted/activated, the Player will also be Marked (or "flagged," in MMO-PvP terms) as well and can also be "assassinated" by other Syndicate Tennos.

A Player may un-toggle or "unmark" themselves but will still have a residual mark for 1hr. Until then, the player can still get attacked! So always be ready!

- Based on Conclave Match-Making Mechanics (to help ensure a fairly even match up); will ONLYmatch-make "marked/flagged" Tenno.
- Flagged or targeted Tenno Players will be in the form of "Contracts." Once selected, the Syndicate (or match maker) will attempt to randomly locate any targeted Tenno in any of the Planets on most missions and send Players to those targets. Their entrance can be like the stalker's or hit squads' entrance.
- Once the Syndicate (Match-Maker) finds a target, it will notify the Assassin. Once the Assassin Accepts, he will spawn at the end of the tile-set and will be able to see his target's silhouette (however, the target will not be able to see the Assassins'). The Target can either fight or finish the objective of his current mission and make his escape to extraction OR he can fight-off the Assassin and kill him instead.
- However, If the targeted Tenno dies. The Assassin will complete his contract and will be teleported out. For either sides, there is no "down" moment...either PvPers will die instantly on that last hit.
- "What if I am playing with a Flagged player?" Simple rule of engagement, if a Non-flagged player attacks the Assassin, they will get the 1hr residual mark and get "flagged."
*** note: the Assassin only has to kill the Targeted Tenno and not the other "flagged" Tennos.
*** So if player's do not wish to participate in this...then don't interfere and enjoy the show. there could be an option to simply just toggle PvP on/off)
*** There are definite strategies that both the Assassin and the Targeted Tenno can use to their advantage; the Assassin has the element of surprise...the Targeted Tenno can have the assistance of his group (or not).

Perhaps another resolve for separating PvE and PvP mission tile sets, would be just to have an option to select Missions that are for PvP (flagged mode) Missions; much like how you can select Nightmare mode on Planet missions, but it's for PvP rules (basically its like playing any mission but your allowing friendly fire..in this case the Assassin and the Targeted Tenno)


Or

Syndicate-Themed Contract Mode:
Sessions can happen on most Mission/tile sets unique to that Syndicate's Theme of addressing their targets. For example:
- Arbiters of Hexis are honor based, their contracts could be sending the players to a conclave tile sets. Best of 3.
- New Loka will be in an Earth Tile-set Capture Mission...only that the capture targets are the Tenno Players.
- Perrin Sequence -- ??
- Red Veil -- ???
- Steel Meridian -- ?? Interception (King of the Hill) based PvP?

Or

Syndicate Elimination Mode (much like an Invasion mission/alert). Where Tenno Players will spawn on Opposite sides of a Tile Set and race to Exterminate all opposing enemy NPC's and Enemy Player(s)! 2v2 would be the max capacity.


Rewards:
Since the Syndicates are notorious for obtaining valuable "Sacrifices" from players, it would be safe and fair to say that after the completion of a Contract, players can be rewarded prime parts, 100k credits, warframe parts (Vauban :D), orokin catalysts/reactors, and/or perhaps the elusive Nueral Sensor! etc etc...


What do you all think? Thoughts?! Suggestions?!

Edited December 9, 2014 by Eddric

[Marthrym]

How would it work with teams? Say I don't want to go anywhere near this thing, but a member of my (random) team has it on, another player(s?) gets into the mission to attack him, what would happen to me? Would I be FORCED to do PvP then? If yes, then big NO to this. Also, this DIRECTLY interferes with PvE content. So again, big NO there for me. Unless matchmaking separates players that use it from the rest. But then it would also directly impact chances to find random teams, and turn matchmaking into a really tedious wait, wouldn't it?

Edited December 6, 2014 by Marthrym

[LuckySe7ens]

Minor draw back would naturally be reduced random teams, however,this mode alone would attract more players, on all platforms, whom would normally overlook the game, as a whole, due to its current pvp content. The proposed modes would only link to fellow "flagged" tenno which would eliminate the debate of taking involuntary members into it.

Edited December 6, 2014 by LuckySe7ens

[elele]

This is an awesome idea! Currently Stalker is weak sauce even though he's "supposedly" a fearsome figure. All thanks to his dumb Spectre-level AI. A player-controlled hitman/assassin is surely more scary! 

 

But to limit OP setups, I think the loadout of the player-controlled hitman should be limited, i.e. if you're playing as the hitman, then you can only use Stalker's gear. 

 

Basically this game mode works like Crysis 3's Hunter mode. A four-player team vs. a fifth player as Stalker. The four-player team can use normal setups while the Stalker player can only use Stalker gears and is permanently semi-invisible (like a Loki using gold-colored energy, hard to see but not completely invisible). 

[-Edrick-]

To address the issue with teams. It could be set to where These contracts can ONLY occur on PvP Missions.  Much like how you are able to select "Nightmare Mode" for each of the missions, there can be an option to do a PvP Mode, where the mission would be the same, only that You are flagged in there and ANYONE who enters it will also be flagged..so it's fair game.

 

This option will allow PvE'ers to completely avoid any PvP conflict, thus, separating both "worlds."

 

I will update/modify the OP accordingly to fit the suggestion you all offer. Please keep providing me more input that will help refine this type of suggested game mode. Thank you all in advance! 

[Kastrel717]

All i can say.Nice idea...It will bring more challenge to the game and it will be also more rewarding.Plus as far as i see players who don't wanna be in this "mess" and continue farming or whatever, they just have to make sure they don't play with marked player and i'm sure there could be system for that too.

 

Let's be honest here guy's stalker BOT can't be scary like a player who is after you.It might be just me but i wanna be stalker that's for sure.Only thing is i wanna build as a stalker my gear and how i look like so don't limit me on that one :(

[Feyangol]

The idea of hunt people is really cool O.o .

But I would do that more like the Stalker (and less than Conclave) and add an option for PvE players not be marked by this PvP content.

 

That means:

1) You can choose if you want to have "open PvP" on or off.

2.) If you reach the lvl 5 in one syndicate, you can do one time per day an "assassination mission" on a player. This player will be randomly selected.

3.) You are able to use the prefered warframes of your syndicate, the favored weapons, all Tenno weapons and of course Stalkers weapons ;) .

4.) You will spawn like the stalker somewhere in the map (where all players can see you), if you are spawned, you are 1 sec invulnerable, but during this time you are also not able to do dmg (for positionning and not an instant kill).

5.) You have to kill only one (marked) person, which you can see on the minimap like the guys in capture missions.

6.) If you are able to complete this mission, than you gain a large amount of syndicate points and a chance for a "special reword". Something like rare mods or something from your syndicate.

7.) But if you complete the mission, you also have a 50% chance to get a "death mark" - you will be the target of an other assassination even if you have your "open PvP" off.

8.) If you fail than the group gets this special reword (a rare mod or something of your syndicate) for 100% .

 

Well, this would be my idea to a stalker gamemode combined with the syndicates :-) .

Edited December 7, 2014 by Feyangol

[-Edrick-]

I agree, the syndicate items should definitely be a reward for those contracts.  Also, your  #2 suggestion, to make the Assassination a fixed daily alert would be a good resolve to limit overwhelming PvP on PvE content.

 

Thank you for your suggestions! it's good see that there are players interested in "the hunt."  Keep those ideas coming!!!

[(PSN)Alphapsykongaroo]

i think this would be real fun. but pve carebears will complain.

[Renegade343]

i think this would be real fun. but pve carebears will complain.

A better system:

 

Players who mark themselves to opt out of this system will not be targeted. If said player is in a public game, where there are at least one player who wants to be in the system, then the cell can be targeted. However, those who opt out of the system would not be able to damage or kill the player attacker, nor can the attacker damage or kill those players who opt out of the system. To highlight this, the method from highlighting enemies in Dark Sectors PVP can be used to allow the player attacker to quickly see who is in the system (i.e.: Highlighting those who are in the system). 

 

To make it more dangerous, getting downed by the player attacker results in instant death (same for downing the player attacker). 

 

That means the system can be played by players who want to test their strength, while leaving players who just want PVE gameplay be. 

[Feyangol]

A better system:

 

Players who mark themselves to opt out of this system will not be targeted. If said player is in a public game, where there are at least one player who wants to be in the system, then the cell can be targeted. However, those who opt out of the system would not be able to damage or kill the player attacker, nor can the attacker damage or kill those players who opt out of the system. To highlight this, the method from highlighting enemies in Dark Sectors PVP can be used to allow the player attacker to quickly see who is in the system (i.e.: Highlighting those who are in the system). 

 

To make it more dangerous, getting downed by the player attacker results in instant death (same for downing the player attacker). 

 

That means the system can be played by players who want to test their strength, while leaving players who just want PVE gameplay be. 

Yes, this would be possible too - but I would suggest that only players who are in this system will be rewarded by this little PvP fight. In my opinion it would unfair if 1 player kills his personal stalker and all players would get an awesome reward (for a certain motivation to play a little bit PvP).

Edited December 7, 2014 by Feyangol

[TheErebus.]

No. No just no.

 

Keep PvP away from PvE, even if it is optional.

[Feyangol]

No. No just no.

 

Keep PvP away from PvE, even if it is optional.

The standart PvE player ...

 

Can you explain why the hell you all hate PvP that much? Here are suggestions to take all PvE players out of this system, if they don't want to play PvP and you still complain about this little idea (open PvP on/off; not able to participate in PvP fights if off).

Just tell us, WHY?

Edited December 7, 2014 by Feyangol

[TheErebus.]

The standart PvE player ...

 

Can you explain why the hell you all hate PvP that much? Here are suggestions to take all PvE players out of this system, if they don't want to play PvP and you still complain about this little idea (open PvP on/off; not able to participate in PvP fights if off).

Just tell us, WHY?

First off, I'm not a "typical PvE player who hates PvP". I like PvP as much as the next guy, but there is a reason why the game is focused on PvE. Because it was made to be one. To include (even an option) to have PvP in the PvE aspect of the game would simply go against the very foundation the game tried to set up.

 

I get it, Dark Souls multiplayer was great. The inclusion of an almost seamless multiplayer made everything interesting, but the fact is that Dark Souls has its gameplay all balanced and set to one direction. Whereas warframe suffers from extreme balancing issues, horrid matchmaking and lag issues.

 

This is why the idea of PvP in PvE is not liked. 

[-Edrick-]

Unfortunately, even "PvE'rs" (if we want to label them that) are entitled to their opinion too and I respect it. (I seriously do, as even their complaining also represents their "love" of this game too like everyone else--wouldn't be spending the time on these forums if they didn't).  

 

But let me help add some clarity/perspective. The simple fact that PvP is present in Warframe, PvP will not be going anywhere. The growing popularity of warframe and increasing player base will continue to expand and the option of having more PvP content is imminent no matter what. It's a trend that "MMO" type of games eventually build on.  Besides, PvP players or PVE players, they are all the same in the eyes of a Business...We are all customers and more customers = more money = more game development (rinse and repeat).  

 

So, because of this inevitability, it is better to at least start making more suggestions to DE to how we could steer how PvP contents will be added.  Hence, the purpose of this thread.  So unless players have nothing else to contribute except complain/hate about PvP, I would respectfully request they just post somewhere else.  As this thread will be an suggestion/attempts to allow what "PvPer's" think and freely place their suggestions without extremist "PvE'ers" shooting them down. 

 

Thank you for understanding in advance.

[TheErebus.]

So, because of this inevitability, it is better to at least start making more suggestions to DE to how we could steer how PvP contents will be added.  Hence, the purpose of this thread.  So unless players have nothing else to contribute except complain/hate about PvP, I would respectfully request they just post somewhere else.  As this thread will be an suggestion/attempts to allow what "PvPer's" think and freely place their suggestions without extremist "PvE'ers" shooting them down. 

 

Thank you for understanding in advance.

You want to know the issue though? PvP is broken in warframe. Horribly broken, so to add on a new addition to a broken system doesn't solve anything. It just makes it worse. 

[-Edrick-]

*sigh*

I never asked what this issue with PvP was (when I started this post)...

Currently, as an avid, hardcore PvPer in conclave and DarkSector,  I can surely elaborate more on what is "broken" than you on a more specific level of mechanics and logistics (there are other threads for that). But I won't cuz that is not what this thread is for. However on this response, I will entertain, just this once (hopefully), for a bit, but on a different angle...

 

Tell me any MMO or PVE game that has PvP in it...and tell me if PvP is Completely balanced....if and when you do...tell me how long it took for them to balance it that way. Either way, It took feedbacks...suggestions...constructive criticism...and the Developer's focused attention to making those balances get there eventually. Simply trolling and complaining to "get rid" of PvP contents is a useless and a poor effort on any player (PvPer or PVEer) to supporting a game's development (no pun intended).

 

Again, Regardless of the answer I won't entertain any further oppositions to 'Suggestions' this thread is seeking.   So with that said sir, respectfully, You are correct in everything you say.  In fact, let's just entertain the idea that, if this was a game mode DE asked for your opinion on how to Make Better, what would you're suggestion be specifically? (and no ..."getting rid of it" is not an option). I seriously would be interested in your constructive opinion actually seeing that you are a founder.

 

As a "grandmaster/founder" and veteran with over 5k posts I believe you are able to still respect this effort along with the opinion of others' who would TRY to make an effort to help provide suggestions to "HELP" provide fan feedback for DE to Help progress PvP content development without hurting PvE content as much as possible. 

 

If you are unable to provide any constructive feedback/suggestions, Here is a forum thread where there would be others who would share your opinions (as the title says), "PvP in this game is so bad like its really bad..."    Cheers.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/360464-pvp-in-this-game-is-so-bad-like-its-really-really-bad-so-bad-in-fact--that -I-needed-to-say-it-twice-in-this-title/

 

And for everyone else thinking about posting non-constructive feedback...keep in mind what the moderators of these feedbacks mentioned of "the good way to answer" ...you can get reported..so please read this...   https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/285171-pvp-feedback-the-good-way-to-answer/

Edited December 7, 2014 by Eddric

[Kastrel717]

You want to know the issue though? PvP is broken in warframe. Horribly broken, so to add on a new addition to a broken system doesn't solve anything. It just makes it worse. 

 

There is something you guy's have to realise about open beta game.It need's to evolve it need's to be more dynamic.I mean it is Warframe we are talking about.It's great game and it should bring something more to the table.

[TheErebus.]

Again, Regardless of the answer I won't entertain any further oppositions to 'Suggestions' this thread is seeking.   So with that said sir, respectfully, You are correct in everything you say.  In fact, let's just entertain the idea that, if this was a game mode DE asked for your opinion on how to Make Better, what would you're suggestion be specifically? (and no ..."getting rid of it" is not an option). I seriously would be interested in your constructive opinion actually seeing that you are a founder.

 

As a "grandmaster/founder" and veteran with over 5k posts I believe you are able to still respect this effort along with the opinion of others' who would TRY to make an effort to help provide suggestions to "HELP" provide fan feedback for DE to Help progress PvP content development without hurting PvE content as much as possible. 

 

If you are unable to provide any constructive feedback/suggestions, Here is a forum thread where there would be others who would share your opinions (as the title says), "PvP in this game is so bad like its really bad..."    Cheers.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/360464-pvp-in-this-game-is-so-bad-like-its-really-really-bad-so-bad-in-fact--that -I-needed-to-say-it-twice-in-this-title/

So you're saying that because I'm a founder and a veteran, that I should try to come up with suggestions for PvP? I've done that. Multiple times.  Do you want to know why people come to warframe? It's because of the PvE and the breath of fresh air it provides. With tons of PvE content that strays away from the PvP centered games that are running rampant throughout gaming. 

 

Furthurmore, this idea that I should help improve this is wrong. I don't have to try to provide feedback to include anything. This is not feedback, this is a fan concepts, so learn the difference between the two.

 

You know what is funny? I do respect you, in fact nearly everyone I've ever met on these forums, no matter how much I argue or clash with, I still respect. But this does not mean I agree with whatever they say. When you come here and start making threads about having PvP go into the PvE aspect of the game, I will never be a part of it and I will be criticizing it until no end.

 

And don't even try to bunch me in with people who dislike PvP in the game. I've clearly stated before that I am not against PvP as a standalone part of the game, so don't try to pull this bullS#&$ by telling me "Go to this thread because you are just a part of the guys who hate PvP"

 

Now with that said, lets get down to it.

 

Why it wont work:

Balancing. 

Your method of conclave ranking wont cut it, because someone with a weapon such as the Penta can easily kill someone who is using a weapon that still offers the conclave bracket that the penta offers. Another issue that comes into play is cells. In an invasion where there is a group playing, the invader will fail no matter what he has with him. 

 

Lag.

The lag on both the hosts end and the lousy internet connection on the opposing sides end will render the match un-playable. Believe me, this is something that Dark Souls 1 and 2 fail horribly at. If there is lag, you will lose.

 

The gameplay. 

Dark Souls is a slow and methodical game, a game that is slow helps when it comes these forms of invasions because you can observe the movements of your target and plan your attacks accordingly. With warframe, it is all borked up because of how fast it is. Say someone invades with a coptering weapon (kronen for example), he will simply zip past every single player and just continuously attack him with the slide attack, leaving the player unable to retaliate. 

 

There is something you guy's have to realise about open beta game.It need's to evolve it need's to be more dynamic.I mean it is Warframe we are talking about.It's great game and it should bring something more to the table.

There's a difference between evolving and devolving. In my opinion, this is not a good suggestion to the game due to the fact that it intrudes into the core aspect of the game. Which is having it be PvE.

[-Edrick-]

Balancing. 

Your method of conclave ranking wont cut it, because someone with a weapon such as the Penta can easily kill someone who is using a weapon that still offers the conclave bracket that the penta offers. Another issue that comes into play is cells. In an invasion where there is a group playing, the invader will fail no matter what he has with him. 

 

Lag.

The lag on both the hosts end and the lousy internet connection on the opposing sides end will render the match un-playable. Believe me, this is something that Dark Souls 1 and 2 fail horribly at. If there is lag, you will lose.

 

The gameplay. 

Dark Souls is a slow and methodical game, a game that is slow helps when it comes these forms of invasions because you can observe the movements of your target and plan your attacks accordingly. With warframe, it is all borked up because of how fast it is. Say someone invades with a coptering weapon (kronen for example), he will simply zip past every single player and just continuously attack him with the slide attack, leaving the player unable to retaliate. 

 

 

Nice this is the only thing i took from it ..most else was just noise to me...however thank you for these inputs. Btw, i agree with you with this being a concept as i was debating where to put it too. (perhaps moderator can transfer?) regardless...you and i both know that even in the concepts, it will still get heat...and frankly i dont really care cuz it will make this thread a hot topic and more and more (perhaps interested) PvP players will see it and add thier input..so really thank you for the arguement.  :)   

Edited December 7, 2014 by Eddric

[Kastrel717]

I still think this stalker thing can work bcz you can turn it off or on and do whatever you want, so you can have your "fresh air".So no matter what you guy's say i don't see a problem in this Stalker thing bcz ("ON/OFF") exist in this world.

[TheErebus.]

I still think this stalker thing can work bcz you can turn it off or on and do whatever you want, so you can have your "fresh air".So no matter what you guy's say i don't see a problem in this Stalker thing bcz ("ON/OFF") exist in this world.

Here's the thing, even if it was optional the devs still need to spend time and resources on it, all of which can be made to spend on more important things. 

[Dracaya]

Here's the thing, even if it was optional the devs still need to spend time and resources on it, all of which can be made to spend on more important things. 

 

Importance is surely something wholly subjective that the devs will have to weigh up based on what the userbase is calling for.

 

You know, semi-democratic-like?

 

They spend time on lots of things I'd rather they spent elsewhere (I really want a Valkyr bobblehead) but this is a game for many different people, and ultimately if DE decides that having additional PvP modes and features is time worth spending then that's really up to them.

[Feyangol]

Why it wont work:

Balancing. 

Your method of conclave ranking wont cut it, because someone with a weapon such as the Penta can easily kill someone who is using a weapon that still offers the conclave bracket that the penta offers. Another issue that comes into play is cells. In an invasion where there is a group playing, the invader will fail no matter what he has with him. 

 

Lag.

The lag on both the hosts end and the lousy internet connection on the opposing sides end will render the match un-playable. Believe me, this is something that Dark Souls 1 and 2 fail horribly at. If there is lag, you will lose.

 

The gameplay. 

Dark Souls is a slow and methodical game, a game that is slow helps when it comes these forms of invasions because you can observe the movements of your target and plan your attacks accordingly. With warframe, it is all borked up because of how fast it is. Say someone invades with a coptering weapon (kronen for example), he will simply zip past every single player and just continuously attack him with the slide attack, leaving the player unable to retaliate. 

 

There's a difference between evolving and devolving. In my opinion, this is not a good suggestion to the game due to the fact that it intrudes into the core aspect of the game. Which is having it be PvE.

Well, that PvP is broken is an other point than this suggestion.

I agree with you that lags would be a problem, but the balance of PvP and the way how players play it, is a negative point against PvP himself and not against this idea of a gamemode. I would also not like this mode, if I would be able to run in this mission with my sybaris and a zephyr, use my turbulence and simply oneshot everyone without the possibility that they can hit me.

 

You are right, that PvP needs balance at first and than new content, but with certain mechanisme it is possible to exclude PvE players from PvP content. And this no reason why a PvP hunt, shouldn't be funny to players who like PvP.

Edited December 7, 2014 by Feyangol

[TheErebus.]

Importance is surely something wholly subjective that the devs will have to weigh up based on what the userbase is calling for.

 

You know, semi-democratic-like?

 

They spend time on lots of things I'd rather they spent elsewhere (I really want a Valkyr bobblehead) but this is a game for many different people, and ultimately if DE decides that having additional PvP modes and features is time worth spending then that's really up to them.

Hmm, yeah you do make a good point. 

But then again, even if it subjective there is also objectivity in what is important. Like that the parkour and movement is old and outdated, yet they keep pumping out content that we don't "really" need.