Quick Look On Syndicate Weapons. Is Synoid Gammacor Here To Stay ?

[Nadrac]

Synoid Gammacor is way too good compared to it's competition right now, vaykor marelok does come closer to the dps of brakk, but brakk is still a very good choice for up in your face play, but synoid gammacor basically has twice as high dps as the best single target weapons in the game. Even considering syndicate affiliation i would expect it to be at least 20% lower than brakk.

 

Don't get too fussy about which mods i put in and where, it's just to indicate what the weapon is capable of. If i was off with the dps by least 15%, do point that out.

 

Base marelok just for reference

http://warframe-builder.com/Secondary_Weapons/Builder/Marelok/t_30_24000000_193-6-5-195-2-5-200-4-5-202-7-5-204-0-10-205-5-3-206-3-5-209-1-5_204-7-209-14-195-11-206-11-200-9-205-9-193-11-202-11/en/3-0-41/0/f

 

Brakk for the same

http://warframe-builder.com/Secondary_Weapons/Builder/Brakk/t_30_23000000_193-6-5-195-2-5-202-7-5-204-0-10-205-4-3-206-3-5-209-1-5-212-5-3_204-7-209-6-195-11-206-11-205-9-212-7-193-11-202-11/en/3-0-4/0/f

 

For real tier ?

Synoid Gammacor, 25 m range does not justify it's dps

http://warframe-builder.com/Secondary_Weapons/Builder/Synoid_Gammacor/t_30_43000000_193-6-5-195-2-5-200-5-5-202-7-5-204-0-10-206-3-5-209-1-5-404-4-5_204-18-209-6-195-11-206-11-404-9-200-9-193-11-202-11/en/3-0-55/0/f

 

Excellent tier

Vaykor Marelok

http://warframe-builder.com/Secondary_Weapons/Builder/Vaykor_Marelok/t_30_24000000_193-6-5-195-2-5-200-4-5-202-7-5-204-0-10-205-5-3-206-3-5-209-1-5_204-7-209-14-195-11-206-11-200-9-205-9-193-11-202-11/en/3-0-53/0/f

 

Telos Akbolto

http://warframe-builder.com/Secondary_Weapons/Builder/Telos_Akbolto/t_30_43000000_193-6-5-195-2-5-200-5-5-202-7-5-204-0-10-205-4-3-206-3-5-209-1-5_204-18-209-6-195-11-206-11-205-9-200-9-193-11-202-11/en/3-0-54/0/f

 

Secura Dual Cestra

http://warframe-builder.com/Secondary_Weapons/Builder/Secura_Dual_Cestra/t_30_23000000_193-6-5-195-2-5-200-5-5-202-7-5-204-0-10-205-4-3-206-3-5-209-1-5_204-7-209-6-195-11-206-11-205-9-200-9-193-11-202-11/en/3-0-56/0/f

 

Maybe, not that interesting tier

Sancti castanas, it's aoe and shocks

http://warframe-builder.com/Secondary_Weapons/Builder/Sancti_Castanas/t_30_22000004_193-6-5-195-2-5-202-7-5-204-0-10-205-4-3-206-3-5-209-1-5-213-5-5_204-7-209-14-195-11-206-11-205-9-213-7-193-11-202-14/en/3-0-57/0/f

 

Why is this so bad tier ?

Rakta Balistica, it's a single target weapon with projectile travel time and a charge mechanic, if anything this should be one of the strongest just for the fussy mechanic, and also impact damage type is just sad

http://warframe-builder.com/Secondary_Weapons/Builder/Rakta_Ballistica/t_30_42000000_193-6-5-195-2-5-202-7-5-204-0-10-205-4-3-206-3-5-209-1-5-404-5-5_204-18-209-14-195-11-206-11-205-9-404-9-193-11-202-11/en/3-0-58/0/f

 

Synoid gammacor would be best at 22k dps, and balistica charge attack should go up to 16k at least, but that's just my take on it. Are they fine, is everyone rushing to get his own op synoid gammacor and don't want it nerfed, or simply what is your favorite of the bunch ?

Edited December 7, 2014 by Nadrac

[TheStag]

Both Grammacors need a slight nerf to balance them.

People cry for a buff, then DE decides.. "Lets make this little tiny sidarm one of the best weapons on the game". Now a slight nerf for balancing is needed, but I doubt it will come.

[Inversus]

Bear in mind the gammacor has awful range and does a damage type only really useful against corpus, there are other single target weapons that are preferable over the gammacor

[Laserclawz]

Both Grammacors need a slight nerf to balance them.

People cry for buffs because they want more endgame viable options, which DE is not providing enough of. Then there are people that cry for nerfs. However, I don't think DE should nerf these great endgame viable weapons and instead, buff up the other syndicate weapons to a level comparable to the Synoid Gammacor. After all, these Syndicate weapons are quite time consuming to acquire, which could justify end game viability, if it's added.

[ra9una]

Numbers only mean so much. I'm not trying to say you're wrong. Myself I don't feel that at this point balancing is needed, though I'm sure many people will read that and cringe, wondering how I can be so stupid, but it only reflects what I personally enjoy and how I like the game to be. What I am extremely frustrated with, is that because of how erratic DE is about weapon tweaks, now I'm scared to invest time in certain weapons. Players should not be anxious about possible coming changes.

[immolator1001]

People cry for buffs because they want more endgame viable options, which DE is not providing enough of. Then there are people that cry for nerfs. However, I don't think DE should nerf these great endgame viable weapons and instead, buff up the other syndicate weapons to a level comparable to the Synoid Gammacor. After all, these Syndicate weapons are quite time consuming to acquire, which could justify end game viability, if it's added.

THIS.

 

These are supposed to be the weapons that you can get just by playing a lot and working hard, no rng. They should all be top tier.

[Stratego89]

Synoid might have a much higher dps now, but it's still "single target", has a short range, uses Magnetic damage, which frankly is kinda bad, even against corpus.. (I'd rather roll with poison), and is a continuous weapon... I think it's shortcomings balances out it's high dps quite well.

[DiabolusUrsus]

People cry for buffs because they want more endgame viable options, which DE is not providing enough of. Then there are people that cry for nerfs. However, I don't think DE should nerf these great endgame viable weapons and instead, buff up the other syndicate weapons to a level comparable to the Synoid Gammacor. After all, these Syndicate weapons are quite time consuming to acquire, which could justify end game viability, if it's added.

 

 

THIS.

 

These are supposed to be the weapons that you can get just by playing a lot and working hard, no rng. They should all be top tier.

 

As long as mods are percent-based, I will continue to vouch against simply buffing everything up to par. Numbers are getting higher and higher in terms of damage and damage per second, and as a result the gaps between various weapons are growing wider and wider. If we continue on like this, eventually the top tier will be indisputably necessary for accessing top-tier content. Imagine an end game where a Boltor Prime, Synoid Gammacor, and Dragon Nikana are required for success. Does that sound fun to you? 

We should be lowering numbers for the time being. That doesn't mean weapons have to be nerfed overall, just that relative damage and health need to be adjusted to bring things back under control. If we can bring the time to kill for both players and enemies up, we'll also stand better chances of developing complex and engaging enemy types rather than tenth-of-a-second wonders. I'm also advocating abandoning percent bonuses and adding flat bonuses, which will expand the range of weapons across which mods are useful. 

[fatpig84]

As long as mods are percent-based, I will continue to vouch against simply buffing everything up to par. Numbers are getting higher and higher in terms of damage and damage per second, and as a result the gaps between various weapons are growing wider and wider. If we continue on like this, eventually the top tier will be indisputably necessary for accessing top-tier content. Imagine an end game where a Boltor Prime, Synoid Gammacor, and Dragon Nikana are required for success. Does that sound fun to you? 

We should be lowering numbers for the time being. That doesn't mean weapons have to be nerfed overall, just that relative damage and health need to be adjusted to bring things back under control. If we can bring the time to kill for both players and enemies up, we'll also stand better chances of developing complex and engaging enemy types rather than tenth-of-a-second wonders. I'm also advocating abandoning percent bonuses and adding flat bonuses, which will expand the range of weapons across which mods are useful. 

 

Oh really ?

Wait till you see what the new infested Juggernaut will bring.

You will SCREAM for higher DPS XD

[Makya]

Looking at your builds for comparing them, why are you having the Syn a much higher RoF mod and given the others a weak ice mod that focuses on more for sustained DPS rather than DPS - reload? Swapping out that mod for a RoF mod increases most of the weapons DPS by 10k-15k..

Edited December 6, 2014 by Makya

[Nadrac]

First of all synoid gammacor stands out as the highest dps weapon in the game, and the reason for it's existence is weak

 

1, Takes time to get it so keep it that way

Buffing weapons up to it's level is nonviable and counter intuitive, so change better happen fast before it hurts even more people

 

2, Range

By that reasoning shotguns should have 60k dps, yet no one really suggested that, i do agree range does matter, but it doesn't matter that much, and 25 is not that bad

 

3, Magnetic damage

It's one of the better ones, if we are not talking about team running 4 cps, then it's irrelevant because the gun will rip anything apart anyway, but if it's a tryhard run, opponents will have health which magnetic doesn't do bonus damage to, but does full, but many will have shield, and unless mag is stripping their shield, doing +75% against their shield and cutting their shield by 75% on proc and halving their health with Viral on proc and doing +75% damage to their health, is one of the best ways to go, other options give 25% bonus against only health, which are slash and heat. Synoid gammacor could easily go for magnetic, viral, heat, making it one of the best lategame weapons just by damage type.

 

Looking at your builds for comparing them, why are you having the Syn a much higher RoF mod and given the others a weak ice mod that focuses on more for sustained DPS rather than DPS - reload? Swapping out that mod for a RoF mod increases most of the weapons DPS by 10k-15k..

You are wrong but feel free to bring evidence, also sustained dps matters, not burst.

Edited December 6, 2014 by Nadrac

[Laserclawz]

So how come no one's crying for a nerf to the Brakk then? Sure, it has bad accuracy and damage drop off, but it still can hit a theoretical DPS of around 85k. 

Edited December 6, 2014 by Laserclawz

[Makya]

You are wrong but feel free to bring evidence, also sustained dps matters, not burst.

 

Brakk for the same

http://warframe-builder.com/Secondary_Weapons/Builder/Brakk/t_30_23000000_193-6-5-195-2-5-202-7-5-204-0-10-205-4-3-206-3-5-209-1-5-212-5-3_204-7-209-6-195-11-206-11-205-9-212-7-193-11-202-11/en/3-0-4/0/f

Your Brakk..

 

7264.32 - TOTAL DAMAGE

58114.56 - BURST DPS

27120.13 - SUSTAINED DPS

 

http://warframe-builder.com/Secondary_Weapons/Builder/Brakk/t_30_23000000_193-6-5-195-2-5-202-7-5-204-0-10-206-3-5-209-1-5-212-5-3-404-4-5_204-7-209-6-195-11-206-11-404-9-212-7-193-11-202-11/en/3-0-4/

 

My Brakk..

 

6334.57 - TOTAL DAMAGE

79182.13 - BURST DPS

22623.46 - SUSTAINED DPS

 

Telos Akbolto

http://warframe-builder.com/Secondary_Weapons/Builder/Telos_Akbolto/t_30_43000000_193-6-5-195-2-5-200-5-5-202-7-5-204-0-10-205-4-3-206-3-5-209-1-5_204-18-209-6-195-11-206-11-205-9-200-9-193-11-202-11/en/3-0-54/0/f

Your Telos...

 

2020.48 - TOTAL DAMAGE

46875.14 - BURST DPS

19241.16 - SUSTAINED DPS

 

http://warframe-builder.com/Secondary_Weapons/Builder/Telos_Akbolto/t_30_43000000_193-6-5-195-2-5-200-5-5-202-7-5-204-0-10-206-3-5-209-1-5-404-4-5_204-18-209-6-195-11-206-11-404-9-200-9-193-11-202-11/en/3-0-54/

 

My Telos...

 

1737.89 - TOTAL DAMAGE

55960.06 - BURST DPS

14762.59 - SUSTAINED DPS

 

Are you trying to honestly tell me I'm wrong? Also sustained DPS doesn't matter too much to me as I also realize something.. You rarely if EVER sit on the same target through a full magazine + reload + firing again. If you are, you are doing something wrong. That's why bursts matters and why hit per shot matters much more than sustained. It's all about the spike, down the target and continue.

Edited December 6, 2014 by Makya

[ashrah]

just buff all wepons de for 40-50%

[Tostov]

So how come no one's crying for a nerf to the Brakk then? Sure, it has bad accuracy and damage drop off, but it still can hit a theoretical DPS of around 85k. 

Fun fact, it gets away with having gigantic theoretical dps because is has bad accuracy and damage drop off. Does it outdo all the melee weapons in the game? Yeah, probably. Is it balanced? Not really.

Synoid Gammacor has:

Excellent Burst

The best sustain ingame

Extremely high ammo efficiency

No recoil

Pinpoint accuracy

And suffers from:

25 m range hard limit

Just slightly above average reload time (2, as opposed to 1.5, which I consider average).

25m Range is not a significant disability to counteract every single other positive thing that it excels or dominates at. Magnetic damage is only weak against six non-boss units. Bombards, Napalms, Eviscorators, Elite Lancers, Corrupted Lancers and oxium ospreys.

It is extremely potent against anything with shields, which includes the entirety of the corpus, and half of the corrupted. And, like any base damage, it only makes up a quarter of the total damage of the weapon, meaning the other 3/4 can be anything you want it to, even corrosive (well 2/4 corrosive then 1/4 fire, but yeah), which wouldn't be usually possible without a double elemental weapon with corrosive or magnetic.

 

[GSDAkatsuki]

Let's be honest, Telos Akboltos is impractical in use, requiring scroll or click script. And even then this make it a full auto weapon that needs constant reloads and runs out of ammo fast. It has that theoretical high burst damage but it really isn't all that great to use, I rather have its fire rate dropped in half with big damage and status boost to make up for the slower fire rate.

[DiabolusUrsus]

Oh really ?

Wait till you see what the new infested Juggernaut will bring.

You will SCREAM for higher DPS XD

 

Seriously doubt that. Instead I'll be screaming for DE to find a way to make things challenging and fun to fight without needing to resort to OHKO "minibosses." 

 

Notice I said that time-to-kill needs to go up for both the players and the enemies. You get a ten-minute high from blazing down everything on the screen in seconds and then it gets dull, repetitive, and mindlessly unintuitive. Conversely, it feels unfair, frustrating, and punishing to be burst down just as quickly. This also doesn't mean that it needs to take five minutes to kill a miniboss. 

 

Low time-to-kill can be quite fun, provided you're currently playing a realism-based simulator or PVP-oriented game, which I think we can both agree are things which Warframe is most definitely not. It's perfectly feasible to create a fast-paced action game without hundreds of things dying every minute. I'd much rather the Juggernaut enjoy longer screentime during each encounter provided it is a fair and balanced fight that amounts to a little more than simply holding down a trigger until it dies. 

 

There's no point in creating wonderfully detailed enemies if the only time you can appreciate the work that went into them is by staring at them in the codex. 

[Nobunigun]

As long as mods are percent-based, I will continue to vouch against simply buffing everything up to par. Numbers are getting higher and higher in terms of damage and damage per second, and as a result the gaps between various weapons are growing wider and wider. If we continue on like this, eventually the top tier will be indisputably necessary for accessing top-tier content. Imagine an end game where a Boltor Prime, Synoid Gammacor, and Dragon Nikana are required for success. Does that sound fun to you? 

We should be lowering numbers for the time being. That doesn't mean weapons have to be nerfed overall, just that relative damage and health need to be adjusted to bring things back under control. If we can bring the time to kill for both players and enemies up, we'll also stand better chances of developing complex and engaging enemy types rather than tenth-of-a-second wonders. I'm also advocating abandoning percent bonuses and adding flat bonuses, which will expand the range of weapons across which mods are useful. 

Eww you use the dragon nikanaa e.e

[DiabolusUrsus]

Eww you use the dragon nikanaa e.e

 

What, am I too casul for you or something? Orthos Prime git gud or go home? Machete MLG? 

What's your problem with the Dragon Nikana outside of generic hipster hate? 

[Renegade343]

What's your problem with the Dragon Nikana outside of generic hipster hate? 

For one thing, that scabbard colouring is a bit counter-intuitive. So that is a small downside.

[DiabolusUrsus]

For one thing, that scabbard colouring is a bit counter-intuitive. So that is a small downside.

 

Can't disagree with you there, but I seriously doubt plain aesthetics are what he (she?) was talking about. It's fine to like or dislike a weapon, it just gets irritating when the only people who bother replying are singling out the single most irrelevant part of what you've said. 

"You'll change your tune when this new enemy comes and kicks your butt!"

"I don't like the weapon you mentioned." 

Edited December 7, 2014 by DiabolusUrsus

[Sakatchi]

-Opinions and Buildz-

You forgot to turn the crit off on all of your builds. just sayin.

 

And no, no nerfs are needed. Instead they should buff them to be roughly the same, the rakata included.

[Nadrac]

Your Brakk..

 

7264.32 - TOTAL DAMAGE

58114.56 - BURST DPS

27120.13 - SUSTAINED DPS

 

http://warframe-builder.com/Secondary_Weapons/Builder/Brakk/t_30_23000000_193-6-5-195-2-5-202-7-5-204-0-10-206-3-5-209-1-5-212-5-3-404-4-5_204-7-209-6-195-11-206-11-404-9-212-7-193-11-202-11/en/3-0-4/

 

My Brakk..

 

6334.57 - TOTAL DAMAGE

79182.13 - BURST DPS

22623.46 - SUSTAINED DPS

 

Your Telos...

 

2020.48 - TOTAL DAMAGE

46875.14 - BURST DPS

19241.16 - SUSTAINED DPS

 

http://warframe-builder.com/Secondary_Weapons/Builder/Telos_Akbolto/t_30_43000000_193-6-5-195-2-5-200-5-5-202-7-5-204-0-10-206-3-5-209-1-5-404-4-5_204-18-209-6-195-11-206-11-404-9-200-9-193-11-202-11/en/3-0-54/

 

My Telos...

 

1737.89 - TOTAL DAMAGE

55960.06 - BURST DPS

14762.59 - SUSTAINED DPS

 

Are you trying to honestly tell me I'm wrong? Also sustained DPS doesn't matter too much to me as I also realize something.. You rarely if EVER sit on the same target through a full magazine + reload + firing again. If you are, you are doing something wrong. That's why bursts matters and why hit per shot matters much more than sustained. It's all about the spike, down the target and continue.

You are wrong. You would be correct if you could kill every enemy in the area with one clip, and they run out. Of course in this supposed situation enemies are weak enough to die from one clip but strong enough for it to matter that you do higher burst? In reality, opponents are coming all the time and you either sit around or move around to kill them constantly, and many times dps doesn't matter that much, ice storms increased clip size could easily matter more allowing you to kill 2 more guys with your marelok before the reload, so that better dps weapon also have better burst if the fight is slightly longer.

 

 

You forgot to turn the crit off on all of your builds. just sayin.

 

And no, no nerfs are needed. Instead they should buff them to be roughly the same, the rakata included.

Crit is part of the dps, and can't buff everything to 40k dps

Edited December 8, 2014 by Nadrac

[Makya]

You are wrong. You would be correct if you could kill every enemy in the area with one clip, and they run out. Of course in this supposed situation enemies are weak enough to die from one clip but strong enough for it to matter that you do higher burst? In reality, opponents are coming all the time and you either sit around or move around to kill them constantly, and many times dps doesn't matter that much, ice storms increased clip size could easily matter more allowing you to kill 2 more guys with your marelok before the reload, so that better dps weapon also have better burst if the fight is slightly longer.

Not true. I'm correct because rarely, if ever, even in late defense, are you focusing perfectly on a new enemy within the time of the next damage tick between targets. The focus onto one target at a time, normally the heavy units and bliz clearing the trash fodder. This is why spike is what is king as you focus on TTK. If you are also fighting something you cannot end in one magazine you are clearly in over your head and your sustained isn't going to help you. Yet if you kill something and don't focus on the next target within 0.17 second then you are losing your real 'sustained' DPS significantly.

 

I will admit, I would never use such builds as they are silly if not stupid to use, at almost any level when being swarmed, punchthrough matters more at that point.. though at that point it's a question of 'I killed my hall before needing to reload, how bout you?' Though you give me a good question 'What is your /reality/ where there is always a endless horde coming at you and you have no time to breath or reload'?

 

EDIT: Looking it over, I found where the Gammcor could be adjusted with minimal issues.. Lower the Magazine size from 75 to 40 (closer inline with most sidearms). This will almost instantly lower the Sustain down dramatically, leaving the Burst DPS alone, shifting it to a 47/21 compared to the current 47/40. Those who urge for a nerf, would this sate you?

Edited December 8, 2014 by Makya

[Jahakarr]

People cry for buffs because they want more endgame viable options, which DE is not providing enough of. Then there are people that cry for nerfs. However, I don't think DE should nerf these great endgame viable weapons and instead, buff up the other syndicate weapons to a level comparable to the Synoid Gammacor. After all, these Syndicate weapons are quite time consuming to acquire, which could justify end game viability, if it's added.

 

And what about the rest? Currently the synoid gammacor beats all the primaries, which in my mind is just wrong. It might be a pve game, but i don't want it to turn into some game where i run around like a headless chicken while holding my left mouse button and watching everything die as they get graced by the baby beam of death and despair.