Nullifier Bubbles - Health Not Hits

[Piranah1]

I love the idea of Nullifier Crewmen, and think that it works decently, bar one thing - it decreases with hits not damage. When I blast it with my Opticor that deals nearly 10k damage, I want a shield to go *pop* prettily. Instead, it downsizes the same amount that it does for a single unmodded Viper shot.

 

Seriously, this is a change that needs to happen. It is simple logical, and there is no reason not to. The health value for the bubble can even scale with the health of the crewman, so it can be made simply and easily valid for all levels.

 

Agree, Tenno?

[DoomFruit]

Actually, I fail to see why an ability nullifier shield should stop every single kind of ranged weapon in the first place, but while still allowing the enemy to just walk through. It's an ability nullifier, not the kind of invincible anti-everything shield that playground children use.

 

But yes, if they're going to stay as weapon blockers, this change really needs to be made. DE have basically mandated that everyone fighting the Corpus brings a Soma or Boltor Prime. Because weapon diversity is a bad thing.

Edited December 13, 2014 by DoomFruit

[carbondragon]

I love the idea of Nullifier Crewmen, and think that it works decently, bar one thing - it decreases with hits not damage. When I blast it with my Opticor that deals nearly 10k damage, I want a shield to go *pop* prettily. Instead, it downsizes the same amount that it does for a single unmodded Viper shot.

 

Seriously, this is a change that needs to happen. It is simple logical, and there is no reason not to. The health value for the bubble can even scale with the health of the crewman, so it can be made simply and easily valid for all levels.

 

Agree, Tenno?

 

Bumping this from now til it's changed. I'm a diehard Latron user. These things are SATAN!

[KairaSilvermist]

DE have basically mandated that everyone fighting the Corpus brings a Soma or Boltor Prime. Because weapon diversity is a bad thing.

 

You can still bring your primary or secondary that you normally use, and just bring a big stick to thwack them with. I have tested with every frame I have, save Mesa, and ALL of them can use their abilities without fail after popping a nullifier after a charge, though Mirage and Valkyr have the best chances of getting TO the bubble alive.

 

Or, just bring a viper, and stick with your normal secondary and melee, to get rid of the bubble. Soma and Boltor Prime are *NOT* the only rapid-fire weapons, and I stick with using Cernos, Marelok, and Jat Kittag against Corpus with very relative ease.

[Piranah1]

I partially agree with what you're talking about, but it still is counter-intuitive. If you hit a shield with a big hit, you expect more than hitting it with a dart-gun. And the fact that you need to purposefully pick a weapon to counter a single enemy whenever you do a corpus run is just stupid - that is unless you are alright with meleeing them, but my point still stands.

 

There is no reason NOT to change this, and important reasons TO change it.

[DarkSignal]

Actually, what they should do is classify it as a Proto-Shield, and make it take damage based upon the element, so impact, ice, and magnetism would deal more damage to it compared to others like puncture. Your Opticor's high puncture damage doesn't do as much damage to a shield as you might think.

[CY13ERPUNK]

I love the idea of Nullifier Crewmen, and think that it works decently, bar one thing - it decreases with hits not damage. When I blast it with my Opticor that deals nearly 10k damage, I want a shield to go *pop* prettily. Instead, it downsizes the same amount that it does for a single unmodded Viper shot.

 

Seriously, this is a change that needs to happen. It is simple logical, and there is no reason not to. The health value for the bubble can even scale with the health of the crewman, so it can be made simply and easily valid for all levels.

 

Agree, Tenno?

 

 

Actually, I fail to see why an ability nullifier shield should stop every single kind of ranged weapon in the first place, but while still allowing the enemy to just walk through. It's an ability nullifier, not the kind of invincible anti-everything shield that playground children use.

 

But yes, if they're going to stay as weapon blockers, this change really needs to be made. DE have basically mandated that everyone fighting the Corpus brings a Soma or Boltor Prime. Because weapon diversity is a bad thing.

[Marthrym]

It's true that the fact that the bubble stops bullets makes no sense whatsoever. They're called "nullifier", they "nullify" powers, not weapons. That's not logical on a gameplay standpoint.^^'

 

 

 

Actually, I fail to see why an ability nullifier shield should stop every single kind of ranged weapon in the first place, but while still allowing the enemy to just walk through. It's an ability nullifier, not the kind of invincible anti-everything shield that playground children use.

 

But yes, if they're going to stay as weapon blockers, this change really needs to be made. DE have basically mandated that everyone fighting the Corpus brings a Soma or Boltor Prime. Because weapon diversity is a bad thing.

So much this. God forbid I want to get my Vectis out for a stroll! Or any weapon with low firerate/mag capacity!

It really does feel like discrimination. What happened to "balance". Thought this applied to enemies too, not just us.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Marthrym

[Racercowboy]

I'm against turning the shield to health based instead of hits based. If it's health based they'll just become another measly corpus to add to our killed list.

 

As a user of many single shot weapons, I see no problem with bringing a melee or a secondary that can shoot and reload fast, since chances are you're bringing one anyway if you are using something like a latron. However, it would be nice if hits from single shot weapons count as more than one hit (2? 3?) to help alleviate the "Takes ten shots from a 8 forma'd max build critical Opticor, nothing happens" deal. Would be far more reasonable than turning them into another artic eximus globe.

 

EDIT: dat speling thogh.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Racercowboy

[fadeinlight]

I really think that this new enemy was designed to stop Mag from entirely taking over Corpus levels via Shield Polarize, or Excalibur for that matter.  If they made it so that these shields dropped with damage, one blast from either Shield Polarize or Radial Javelin could likely take them out...meaning that it would only take two castings of them to eliminate everything in range.

 

These guys are probably a direct result of the fallout from Vivergate, and personally I'm enjoying them.

[Satwo]

i dont find them incredibly annoying to be perfectly honest. yeah, its 2 full clips of my tysis, but they dont exactly fire fast, nor do they chase you down.

 

the recharge on them had been dropped dramatically it seems. they feel fine now for me.

[taiiat]

no. being just Health once again gives Spike Damage Weapons an unhindered advantage compared to Spray Cannons.

 

the only answer that makes sense is something that about equally holds back Spike Damage Weapons and Spray Cannons.

currently the advantage is to Spray Cannons, and if only Health based, the advantage completely swings over to Spike Damage Weapons.

 

so again, no. not Health based.

 

 

 

my vote goes for 'rotating armor plates' for the Nullifier Shield that each have Health. a fairly moderate amount of Health, so that it takes a little bit to break each plate. the entire Shield rotates though, so there's strategy to breaking either enough plates to have completely open holes to shoot through, or to break them before they come into direct view so you can shoot in directly.

the Shield still blocks Abilities ofcourse, the holes would most definitely not 'let Abilities in'.

[Renkai141]

Why don't you just have it as "every time it attacks, a part on the shield goes down" a part. This meaning that if it's shooting you, you can shoot it as well. There is also the option of just going in and using your melee, but that's different. 

[DoomFruit]

I really think that this new enemy was designed to stop Mag from entirely taking over Corpus levels via Shield Polarize, or Excalibur for that matter. If they made it so that these shields dropped with damage, one blast from either Shield Polarize or Radial Javelin could likely take them out...meaning that it would only take two castings of them to eliminate everything in range.

These guys are probably a direct result of the fallout from Vivergate, and personally I'm enjoying them.

Shield Polarise or Radial Javelin would do nothing, because it's an ability nullifier shield. You still have to shoot it.

You can still bring your primary or secondary that you normally use, and just bring a big stick to thwack them with. I have tested with every frame I have, save Mesa, and ALL of them can use their abilities without fail after popping a nullifier after a charge, though Mirage and Valkyr have the best chances of getting TO the bubble alive.

Or, just bring a viper, and stick with your normal secondary and melee, to get rid of the bubble. Soma and Boltor Prime are *NOT* the only rapid-fire weapons, and I stick with using Cernos, Marelok, and Jat Kittag against Corpus with very relative ease.

I utterly hate rapid fire bullet hose pistols (primaries as well, to a lesser extent). My go-to loadout is Latron Prime, Tysis and Redeemer. All single shot, accurate, high-damage weapons (with the Redeemer for close-range crowd control if I get swarmed) - because this is my favourite playstyle. Any weapons I switch out will follow this basic pattern - Lex Prime or perhaps Marelok as a secondary, Opticor as primary (or Penta in the case of very high wave survival or defence), Bo Prime if coptering is particularly necessary.

And getting inside that shield to melee the enemies is a death sentence if you're using something squishy like Nyx, Loki or Nova. So that's not an option.

Edited December 14, 2014 by DoomFruit

[RaptorLD]

no. being just Health once again gives Spike Damage Weapons an unhindered advantage compared to Spray Cannons.

 

the only answer that makes sense is something that about equally holds back Spike Damage Weapons and Spray Cannons.

currently the advantage is to Spray Cannons, and if only Health based, the advantage completely swings over to Spike Damage Weapons.

 

so again, no. not Health based.

 

 

 

my vote goes for 'rotating armor plates' for the Nullifier Shield that each have Health. a fairly moderate amount of Health, so that it takes a little bit to break each plate. the entire Shield rotates though, so there's strategy to breaking either enough plates to have completely open holes to shoot through, or to break them before they come into direct view so you can shoot in directly.

the Shield still blocks Abilities ofcourse, the holes would most definitely not 'let Abilities in'.

 

 

how do spikeweapons profit from healthshields over sprayweapons?

If both weapons have the same amount of DPS the Sprayweapon would be the faster one as :

 

-even the last hit on shield get gateblocked meaning you need another shot before damaging the inside => you lose the time of another shot of a slowfiring weapon before beeing able to shoot the inside while sprayguns just keep on firing loosing like no dps to the gateeffect.

 

-Spikeweapons are usually high precision weapons that counter lower dps by higher accuracy though with a huge target like the shield that benefit gets totally wiped out giving spray&pray weapons another benefit against em....

 

 

Actually it would make more sense if a primary target like the nullifer would be weaker against spike weapons as against spray weapons since spreay&prayers are designed  to counter enemy masses/cannonfodder. The current nullifer shields are kinda a slap into the face for all those sniperweapons that are useless against pretty much everything than taking out high priority targets as their only niche gets "nullified" by those troopers...

 

 

As a suggestion: give it health with a fixvalue damage absorb per hit. so fast hitting weapons deal far less damage per hit making it unlikely to spray and pray a whole room with BP like they're used to and brings back snipers and hard hitters to do what they were made for (though additionally add a high resistance to aoe damage so they just dont spam rockets in  :p)

[Sakatchi]

Go into the bubble and shoot him in the face with your opticore. Dont  waste your ammo trying to pop it. When hes dead, then press 4.

 

Its not hard, they have no health. If theres techs, slide in and shoot. I dont understand why this is science.

[taiiat]

how do spikeweapons profit from healthshields over sprayweapons?

a Spike Damage Weapon will always oneshot a purely Health based defense. which means two shots tops. forever.

the Spray Cannon will end up magdumping to break the defense and also hit the Enemy.

 

doesn't really matter that the Spike Damage Weapon needs to shoot twice, it will still do it faster than the Spray Cannon because it can nuke the Health of the defense regardless of Level.

 

 

rotating Armor Plates is the coolest looking thing we could do, but there's other options to compromise to.

having a large sum of total Health(we're talking large) and each shot slightly reducing size as currently allows both Spike Damage Weapons and Spray Cannons to attempt to break the Shield, however inefficiently and not that effectively doing so.

 

Spike Damage Weapons will be looking at that Health sum, which would be a damn big number so that they need to shoot a few times.

Spray Cannons will be looking at toothpicking the Shield until it collapses, which should take a little while. probably should have the reduced hits to collapse reverted if it also has a big Health sum for other Weapon Types.

 

 

ultimately though, the efficient and effective way is to go in and do like, one Melee Strike and instantly kill the Enemy and all of his buddies hiding in it.

it's piss easy. any Warframe can do it. your Health and Shields don't matter because it only takes a single strike, so you won't even be there long enough and the Enemies won't be alive long enough to even shoot and hit you.

 

My go-to loadout is Latron Prime, Tysis and Redeemer.

Any weapons I switch out will follow this basic pattern - Lex Prime or perhaps Marelok as a secondary, Opticor as primary (or Penta in the case of very high wave survival or defence), Bo Prime if coptering is particularly necessary.

i'm surprised you can stand using Tysis if you like 'high precision high Damage Weapons'.

because Tysis is far from 'high Damage'. honestly i think you'd be better off with Lex Prime completely replacing Tysis. or Marelok if you don't need quite as much precision and you really want lots and lots of Status.

[Tsukinoki]

Problem with switching to a health based shield is that once you get to the higher levels high ROF low damage weapons become completely pointless to even *try* to kill one of those enemies.

Go to Pluto and try taking out an artic eximus shield with a high ROF weapon and see how pointless it is.
Meanwhile a high single shot damage weapon kills it in one or two shots.

Right now you can take a high ROF weapon to pluto and at least do *something* to the nullifiers.
And that is a *very* good thing.

if it switched to health it would be exactly the same as the artic eximus unit.  As it stands it is different.  And enemies need more variety, not less.

[GeneralArmchair]

Sniper rifles are still lackluster and in need of love, how about letting them bypass the shield entirely?

[Cyaminthe]

no. being just Health once again gives Spike Damage Weapons an unhindered advantage compared to Spray Cannons.

 

the only answer that makes sense is something that about equally holds back Spike Damage Weapons and Spray Cannons.

currently the advantage is to Spray Cannons, and if only Health based, the advantage completely swings over to Spike Damage Weapons.

Why not both? Make every shot reduce shield radius by [constant value] + [weapon damage] * [scaling multiplier (level-dependent)]. Spray cannons will relate on the former to bring shield down and spike damage weapons will relate on the latter.

Edited December 14, 2014 by ToaMimrik

[taiiat]

Why not both? Make every shot reduce shield radius by [constant value] + [weapon damage] * [scaling multiplier (level-dependent)]. Spray cannons will relate on the former to bring shield down and spike damage weapons will relate on the latter.

well, uh.

 

rotating Armor Plates is the coolest looking thing we could do, but there's other options to compromise to.

having a large sum of total Health(we're talking large) and each shot slightly reducing size as currently allows both Spike Damage Weapons and Spray Cannons to attempt to break the Shield, however inefficiently and not that effectively doing so.

 

Spike Damage Weapons will be looking at that Health sum, which would be a damn big number so that they need to shoot a few times.

Spray Cannons will be looking at toothpicking the Shield until it collapses, which should take a little while. probably should have the reduced hits to collapse reverted if it also has a big Health sum for other Weapon Types.

 

 

ultimately though, the efficient and effective way is to go in and do like, one Melee Strike and instantly kill the Enemy and all of his buddies hiding in it.

it's &!$$ easy. any Warframe can do it. your Health and Shields don't matter because it only takes a single strike, so you won't even be there long enough and the Enemies won't be alive long enough to even shoot and hit you.

Edited December 14, 2014 by taiiat

[Cyaminthe]

well, uh.

I suppose two players should be able to down a nullifier's shield faster than one. Consider a case when one of the players has a spike weapon and the other has a spray weapon.

[taiiat]

I suppose two players should be able to down a nullifier's shield faster than one. Consider a case when one of the players has a spike weapon and the other has a spray weapon.

they'd most definitely be able to break or collapse the Shield faster with more guns pointed at at it.

regardless of what Types of Weapons Players have pointed at the Nullifier Shield, more Players means breaking or collapsing it faster.

[Cyaminthe]

they'd most definitely be able to break or collapse the Shield faster with more guns pointed at at it.

regardless of what Types of Weapons Players have pointed at the Nullifier Shield, more Players means breaking or collapsing it faster.

In your solution a player with a spray weapon will shrink the shield while barely scratching its health and a player with a spike weapon will cause severe damage to shield's health while not doing much to its radius. They won't minimize shield much faster than one player and certainly will do it slower than two players with the same type of weapon.

Also making spike weapons break shield instead of shrinking it still places them in a disadvantage compared to spray weapons, because as long as shield isn't broken yet ability-disabling field covers the same area and this can be quite problematic if there are multiple nullifiers.

[taiiat]

and certainly will do it slower than two players with the same type of weapon.

 

and this can be quite problematic if there are multiple nullifiers.

the Spike Damage Weapon can already break the Shield in a few shots, adding a Spray Cannon onto that won't change much.

and the Spray Cannon can already collapse the Shield by magdumping, adding a Spike Damage Weapon onto that won't change much.

 

rotating Armor Plates is a far superior solution. a mix of Health and shots to collapse is going to only be mediocre. because it's still reliant on Health. but atleast not as reliant on spraying.

 

 

 

there's no problem at all unless you're using your Spike Damage Weapon incorrectly. they're for priority targets, you focus on the priority targets with your Weapon that's designed specifically for them.

killing Trash Units with a Spike Damage Weapon is a low priority and comes after you've eliminated your primary targets with that Weapon Type.

 

which in this case means that Nullifier Crewman are a Priority Target, and other Enemies around are equally priority or not important at all until later.