Mesa - General And Qol Improvements

[ipel4]

So while Mesa is very strong thematically in practice it needs some more work and Im going to suggest some improvements that I and a friend have been discussing what can be improved upon.

 

Lets start off first with her abilities.

 

1. Ballistic Battery

The biggest problem this ability has is that you cannot spam it which kinda goes against the notion of being a first ability. For me that's due to the fact that you need to click twice for it to be used and in the heat of battle that is something you can't allow yourself doing so my proposal for this ability is for it to passively charge up instead of having to press the button first. This way, you can play and when you need it you can instantly excecute it.

 

2. Shooting Gallery

The problem with the second ability is that it switches from player to player and while that is usefull IMO it would be better if upon casting the ability mesa gets a damage boost and the weapon jamming but it lasts untill the end of the duration and it doesnt shift from her. She also latches out 1/2/3/4 lassos to other player depending on the level of the ability. There can be more than one of these lassos at a time on a player and they stack with mesas' and one other and if they are to give a damage boost then it will scale with the amount of players so that solo mesas' arent op.

 

3. Shattered Shield

I think this ability is well balanced but curently I dont think a crewman doing 4 damage every second to himself is of use so maybe it should be 2000% of the actual damage since opponents have much more health than damage (btw the crewman was lvl 19).

 

4. Peacemaker

So for this ability I think it should either shoot automatically without having to hold or spam the LMB, or you should be able to move while its active, maybe it should be turned into a duration ability and it should keep the autoaim. Another grind I have witht the ability is its fire rate. I think it should fire as fast as I click the button.

 

Also I think that if you have a redeemer or any gunblade added in the future equiped it should give you the bonus health for not having an equpped melee.

[Aeriax]

Personally, I only really agree with the notion for shatter shield, and making an exception for the Redeemer. Peacemaker automatically shooting would be absolutely broken, because you could just press 4 and walk away from your computer, and if you have the right team comp, clear multiple defense waves while completely AFK.

 

Also, you only fire when you have direct line of sight to an enemy- the reason why it seems 'stuttery' is because occasionally enemies do this "taking cover" thing that apparently increases survivability in  firefights. Or they haven't  entered the room yet.

 

Ballistic Battery needs  no change as far as I know, and having a non-spammy but still extremely useful 1 skill is a refreshing change.

[RawGritz]

her #4. You hold the button down. She fires faster the longer the button is held, as long as enemies are in line of sight. its FINE!

 

Her #1. I think any enemy killed by BB should explode with radial AOE dmg with 70-100% proc chance, making them a "Powder Keg" fitting nicely with her theme

 

Her #3. Agreed. Reflected damage could be boosted since the duration is limited.

 

Her #2. Should always stay on mesa as it cycles to other players. Or it should hit all  players simultaneously.

 

Other than that...she is Dmn-near perfect.

Edited December 15, 2014 by RawGritz

[JohnProdman]

Some of this feedback seems like it was thought of before the changes.

[inthephonebox]

To be completely honest, I don't agree with any of this. I certainly do not mean to put you or your idea down, but I must question if your particular issues with Mesa simply have to do with your playstyle. Not every frame works well for every player. Specifically, my has quickly become my new favorite frame (sorry Nyx) and I can't find a single thing wrong with any of her abilities. In fact, I think she is as mechanically sound as she is thematically. Having to keep up with button presses for BB and Peacemaker add to the feel of a trigger happy gunslinger; and the damage reflection of SS is really only an added perk to the amazing damage reduction of the ability. The only weak link in her kit, if you want to find a weak link, is Shooting Gallery. I agree that the switching between players mechanic makes the skill perhaps less reliable than other, more predictable and consistent, team benefit powers, but I think it also adds greater promise for balance. Then take into consideration the muzzle flash augment, and the skill can really start to shine. 

 

But this is all my personal opinion vs your personal opinion.

 

The only thing I'd like to see regarding Mesa is an armor boost to make up for her lack of shields. I actually love low shield frames, and the redeemer I use with Mesa makes for a wonderful lifestrike weapon; but if a frame doesn't have the damage buffer a shield provides, it should be able to soak up more punishment to health than other frames. 

[CelsiusPrime]

1. Ballistic Battery

The biggest problem this ability has is that you cannot spam it which kinda goes against the notion of being a first ability. For me that's due to the fact that you need to click twice for it to be used and in the heat of battle that is something you can't allow yourself doing so my proposal for this ability is for it to passively charge up instead of having to press the button first. This way, you can play and when you need it you can instantly excecute it.

 

 

sounds like you are using that ability wrong. it's designed to be activated at the start of the mission, then run around and shoot things then when you want to use it, BOOM you activate it again and kill your target and then you instantly cast it again so you start getting charges right away.

 

 

 

2. Shooting Gallery

The problem with the second ability is that it switches from player to player and while that is usefull IMO it would be better if upon casting the ability mesa gets a damage boost and the weapon jamming but it lasts untill the end of the duration and it doesnt shift from her. She also latches out 1/2/3/4 lassos to other player depending on the level of the ability. There can be more than one of these lassos at a time on a player and they stack with mesas' and one other and if they are to give a damage boost then it will scale with the amount of players so that solo mesas' arent op.

 

 

I like that it gives team buffs but I agree, it should be controllable, like if there is an ally within range of you, you should be able to cast it again and tab through your allies to switch the buff around, or you could be selfish and keep in on yourself.

 

 

3. Shattered Shield

I think this ability is well balanced but curently I dont think a crewman doing 4 damage every second to himself is of use so maybe it should be 2000% of the actual damage since opponents have much more health than damage (btw the crewman was lvl 19).

 

 

ALL damage reflect needs to be looked at (including the reflection mods and everything)

 

4. Peacemaker

So for this ability I think it should either shoot automatically without having to hold or spam the LMB, or you should be able to move while its active, maybe it should be turned into a duration ability and it should keep the autoaim. Another grind I have witht the ability is its fire rate. I think it should fire as fast as I click the button.

 

Also I think that if you have a redeemer or any gunblade added in the future equiped it should give you the bonus health for not having an equpped melee.

 

Have you ever seen those old western movies where this crack-shot is standing in the middle of town and he knows the bad guys are going to attack form every side and he just stands still and pulls of some crazy ridiculous shots and hits all of his targets on the first shot?

 

that's why mesa is a turret and not a walking machinegun

[Storchenbein]

I think Shooting Gallery is in need of a change. The damage bonus that it offers is kind of low, even with a max power strength build. On top of that, it only works for you or one of your allies and only for ranged weaponry. It's basicly a gimped version of roar, except for the weapon jamming which I never even noticed. I feel the damage bonues should be upped a little bit and the weapon jamming increased.

 

As for Ballistic Battery, only thing that would be nice is if the amplified shot had 1 or 2 meters of innate punch through.

 

I think Shatter Shield and Peacemaker are fine as they are.

[BloodCarnival]

1. I don't think all first button/ability has to or should work and function the same. It would just make all abilities feel the same, but with different visuals. And it can't be that hard to press a button twice. Once for activation, shoot to charge it up and then once more for execution when you're ready. 

2. I like the Lasso idea, though unsure about the stacking...however I'm fine as it is too. I find that not all individual Warframe are going to have or should have some amazing abilities that works in every situation. There's always going to be that one that's going to bug everybody.

3. Indifferent.
 

4. I believe spam clicking was what it used to be but then they changed it to what it was now...and I agree for it to become clickity-click-clicks. It would feel/be faster that way.

[ipel4]

The only thing I'd like to see regarding Mesa is an armor boost to make up for her lack of shields. I actually love low shield frames, and the redeemer I use with Mesa makes for a wonderful lifestrike weapon; but if a frame doesn't have the damage buffer a shield provides, it should be able to soak up more punishment to health than other frames.

Everyone to his own i guess. I intentioanally didn't cover stats because I personally think gunslingers have more shields than health but not everyone agrees to that thought I agree that a small buff will be good but isn't needed since SS provides 95% damage reduction with little efforts.

 

sounds like you are using that ability wrong. it's designed to be activated at the start of the mission, then run around and shoot things then when you want to use it, BOOM you activate it again and kill your target and then you instantly cast it again so you start getting charges right away.

I dont know if Im using it wrong or not but I personally dont see a point in an additional click. You guys tell me its what gives her flavor and dont have anything against that, just my opinion :)

 

Have you ever seen those old western movies where this crack-shot is standing in the middle of town and he knows the bad guys are going to attack form every side and he just stands still and pulls of some crazy ridiculous shots and hits all of his targets on the first shot?

 

that's why mesa is a turret and not a walking machinegun

I havent actually, guessing thats why I was a bit disapointed by it. For me its a dumbed down bladestorm.

 

Also for everyone who said that for the fourth to fire fast you need to hold down the button or there must be a lot of enemies around Ive met both circumstances simultaneously and it still fired 2 shots every 2 seconds which for me isnt fast enought.

[CelsiusPrime]

I havent actually, guessing thats why I was a bit disapointed by it. For me its a dumbed down bladestorm.

 

Also for everyone who said that for the fourth to fire fast you need to hold down the button or there must be a lot of enemies around Ive met both circumstances simultaneously and it still fired 2 shots every 2 seconds which for me isnt fast enought.

 

 

 

watch the first part of this video and he obviously is shooting faster than 2 shots every 2 seconds so there must be something you are doing that isn't working. maybe you aren't waiting till the enemies are visible and close or maybe they are outside of the 50m  hard cap range. Idk but it definitely is fast.

[KudaGila]

My feedback to Mesa:  Why does warframe, which uses Shattered Shield ability, have MORE HP then shields? She could use higher shields like Mag.

1) First skill - Why would you use this when you have Opticor that already insta kills, or syndicate weapons, Phage, Soma Prime in few days etc? Charge it and leave it... - Fix: Charge this skill up to 2/4/6/8 times, extra dmg get's applied to each shot in her ulti - that way it has some use

 

2) her second ability and shifting to other players... I want to jam guns of enemies in front of me that threaten my life for time being, not to give it anyone who walks by randomly - Fix: Make the ability toggle, first part is Mesa keeps it for herself, second click makes it shift to nearest player...this way we control when it shifts and if we even WANT it to shift towards other player, and to whom we wanna give it

 

3) her shield is nice, but once again, why does Mesa have more HP then shields? That's exact same nonsense as Ember taking dmg on Fire areas, or Frost being slowed down on freeze pads

 

4) Ulti - Targets random enemy, word RANDOM is very important - often enemies right next to you, that are killing you, don't get targeted first , it should be either toggle or burst...clicking for each hit is...didn't we get pass that age of Akboltos, with all the automatic weapons? Annoying to say the least, uninteresting, utterly slow vs other caster warframes - it's fun only first few missions, and most of the ppl use macros as they did for Akboltos, and we remember how Scott hates macros, but WHO will bother with clicking for each kill?

- ulti isn't affected by range, so you can't increase it and can't affect it either by neggative range dual mod...

Fix: Ulti now targets enemies by the RANGE, from closest to Mesa, to the ones far away - this prevents ridiculous situations, where you have your second on, shield on, stay in ulti, keep on killing enemies all around while being beaten to death by enemies standing right next to you

- ulti should be either> Toggle, Mesa aimbots till she runs out of targets or energy - and since we can't use syndicate weapons energy regen because of equiped regulator pistols, this shouldn't result in AFK clearing of maps as DE might fear

or make it Burst> Mesa targets closest enemies to her, and X amount of them are killed in rapid succession - it reminds me of Ash and his slow ulti, which quickly became pointless with Nova in game, and therefore was tweaked and sped up

[CelsiusPrime]

4) Ulti - Targets random enemy, word RANDOM is very important - often enemies right next to you, that are killing you, don't get targeted first , it should be either toggle or burst...clicking for each hit is...didn't we get pass that age of Akboltos, with all the automatic weapons? Annoying to say the least, uninteresting, utterly slow vs other caster warframes - it's fun only first few missions, and most of the ppl use macros as they did for Akboltos, and we remember how Scott hates macros, but WHO will bother with clicking for each kill?

 

idk if you read the patch notes but now you just have to hold down the fire button. no more clicking for each kill. so most of this quoted paragraph doesn't apply anymore.

 

 

plus there is nothing wrong with semi automatic weapons

[Jinryusai]

1. I don't think all first button/ability has to or should work and function the same. It would just make all abilities feel the same, but with different visuals. And it can't be that hard to press a button twice. Once for activation, shoot to charge it up and then once more for execution when you're ready. 

And have an addition function/effect that would make people want to use it, not just a very limited/fixed amount of people with a certain playstyle.

 

The idea is to please most people, this skill fails at that.

 

And you are never ready to shoot the thing because everything is dead or your target is near death so it's wasted.

[Jinryusai]

sounds like you are using that ability wrong. it's designed to be activated at the start of the mission, then run around and shoot things then when you want to use it, BOOM you activate it again and kill your target and then you instantly cast it again so you start getting charges right away.

It was designed to be activated at the start of the missions and never used so you'd look like you walked out of a Tron movie. That is how most people feel.Never seen anyone use this skill and most people here that speak of the skill never praise it.

 

And starting it at the start doesn't stop one from having to click twice to use it each time. The activation should be a toggle w/o energy consumption. You can deactivate it until it hits 100. If you have an automatic, beam, shotgun or dual pistols, it should fire many bullets, anything else can fire 1 shot. That's the least they can do.

 

Don't see the point of this power when using auto, duals, etc. This power neglects so many weapons and their mechanics.

[Renkai141]

Peace maker should just be named.
Last stand :
Hover over your targets with this skill, and the characters you hover over are selected.
Then u press LMB. and Mesa shoots everybody you targeted.

Skill and function in one.

[RealPandemonium]

So while Mesa is very strong thematically in practice it needs some more work and Im going to suggest some improvements that I and a friend have been discussing what can be improved upon.

 

Lets start off first with her abilities.

 

1. Ballistic Battery

The biggest problem this ability has is that you cannot spam it which kinda goes against the notion of being a first ability. For me that's due to the fact that you need to click twice for it to be used and in the heat of battle that is something you can't allow yourself doing so my proposal for this ability is for it to passively charge up instead of having to press the button first. This way, you can play and when you need it you can instantly excecute it.

 

2. Shooting Gallery

The problem with the second ability is that it switches from player to player and while that is usefull IMO it would be better if upon casting the ability mesa gets a damage boost and the weapon jamming but it lasts untill the end of the duration and it doesnt shift from her. She also latches out 1/2/3/4 lassos to other player depending on the level of the ability. There can be more than one of these lassos at a time on a player and they stack with mesas' and one other and if they are to give a damage boost then it will scale with the amount of players so that solo mesas' arent op.

 

3. Shattered Shield

I think this ability is well balanced but curently I dont think a crewman doing 4 damage every second to himself is of use so maybe it should be 2000% of the actual damage since opponents have much more health than damage (btw the crewman was lvl 19).

 

4. Peacemaker

So for this ability I think it should either shoot automatically without having to hold or spam the LMB, or you should be able to move while its active, maybe it should be turned into a duration ability and it should keep the autoaim. Another grind I have witht the ability is its fire rate. I think it should fire as fast as I click the button.

 

Also I think that if you have a redeemer or any gunblade added in the future equiped it should give you the bonus health for not having an equpped melee.

Is this a real post?

 

Also, the problem with 1 is that it has a casting animation, which breaks the flow of gunplay.

Edited December 16, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[CelsiusPrime]

And starting it at the start doesn't stop one from having to click twice to use it each time. The activation should be a toggle w/o energy consumption. You can deactivate it until it hits 100. If you have an automatic, beam, shotgun or dual pistols, it should fire many bullets, anything else can fire 1 shot. That's the least they can do.

 

Don't see the point of this power when using auto, duals, etc. This power neglects so many weapons and their mechanics.

 

 

while yes you only have to click twice but the twice click is happening during the release. so click 1 will kill your target and click 2 with activate it again and it will charge with barely any time between casts. so you only have to cast once to kill any unit you want.

 

and I don't see how this ability would work differently with automatics, beam, shotguns, or dual pistols (probably all the "end game" guns you use and are afraid with not be good any more)

 

use your boltor prime on a target and you'll have a full charge in no time. then you activate it to get a "primed chamber effect" on the first shot meaning you only have to shot 10 bullets instead of 30 to kill that heavy gunner.

 

tell me how this is will not work. tell me that those guns you listed are so incapable of benefiting from the skill as it stands that it needs to be changed completely. I dare you to present me with good hard evidence that what you say has a shred of truth in it.

 

 

 

however I do agree that this ability does not encourage the use of weapons and guns with special and unique abilities. but I also think those weapons don't really fit her playstyle and for the most part can be ignored.

 

 

so all in all, everyone is entitled to their option and some people choose to be entitled to be wrong.

[InoxMaximus]

she need´s a buff. I agree with you ipel4.

[Jinryusai]

while yes you only have to click twice but the twice click is happening during the release. so click 1 will kill your target and click 2 with activate it again and it will charge with barely any time between casts. so you only have to cast once to kill any unit you want. - Still two clicks...

 

and I don't see how this ability would work differently with automatics, beam, shotguns, or dual pistols (probably all the "end game" guns you use and are afraid with not be good any more) - More bullets(Look up "Active Reload")

 

use your boltor prime on a target and you'll have a full charge in no time. then you activate it to get a "primed chamber effect" on the first shot meaning you only have to shot 10 bullets instead of 30 to kill that heavy gunner. - Not much of a difference, they already die fast enough...Feels wasted.

 

tell me how this is will not work. tell me that those guns you listed are so incapable of benefiting from the skill as it stands that it needs to be changed completely. I dare you to present me with good hard evidence that what you say has a shred of truth in it. - Neglects the way they work by not pumping out many bullets, one shot is silly for automatics, beam, etc.

 

 

 

however I do agree that this ability does not encourage the use of weapons and guns with special and unique abilities. but I also think those weapons don't really fit her playstyle and for the most part can be ignored. - This skill however for the most part is ignored by most people unless they like glowing in the dark. Never see anyone use it. Fewer people ok with it than those that want it improved/changed. She might as well have two powers since no one uses the first 2 unless solo for her 2. Although her 2 gets used once in a blue moon and encourages solo play which makes it always get used. With her 2, her 1 would be pointless since things already(including heavy) die fast. Her 1 isn't fun either.

[CelsiusPrime]

Her 1 isn't fun either.

 

 

this is what I'm having a hard time understanding.  do you not enjoy fireball? Smite? Soul Punch? it's basically just like all the rest of the 1's. I personally find it enjoyable to shoot a bunch of trash mobs in a wave and then when an ancient spawns next wave pressing one and watching it fall over.

[Bernkastal]

So the only ability I really agree with you on is Balistic Bullet- but that one I REALLY agree on. Passively stacking the damage removes the 'oh S#&$ I didn't put that on before I ulted' kind of thing. It's a maintenance issue for a frame that is just.... Un-fun. Make her activate to deal stored damage from the last shot makes a lot of sense, and I don't think anyone will really complain, people will probably rather enjoy such a change.

[Jinryusai]

this is what I'm having a hard time understanding.  do you not enjoy fireball? Smite? Soul Punch? it's basically just like all the rest of the 1's. I personally find it enjoyable to shoot a bunch of trash mobs in a wave and then when an ancient spawns next wave pressing one and watching it fall over.

So when did they change fireball, smite and soul punch and give it a charge counter?

 

Oh and I've never really seen people use those powers either. The only "1" power I see frequently is Hall of Mirrors.

 

Although if it were really like them you'd be able to shoot more bullets after charging.

 

in Dungeon Fighter Online, a Spitfire class has grenades ability where he readies his grenades(About 5 of them or more), then then tosses them whenever he wants w/o charging until he's out, then he has to ready more. Ballistic is the same except you only get one bullet. You should get at least 5 bullets although I recommend 12-15 and them bullets have infinite punchthrough so they are more meaningful.

 

So if there is going to be a charge, it might as well shoot more than one bullet with punchthrough with a cool effect and cool visuals and an Augment mod perhaps to make enemies explode at random causing aoe damage or better, thats the skills passive ability.

 

Ricocheting between enemies works too.

 

There is that first ability spam 1st abilities are known for except Hall of Mirrors.

 

It shall be another year before another 1st ability as fun and interesting as Hall of Mirrors comes along.

[CelsiusPrime]

So when did they change fireball, smite and soul punch and give it a charge counter?

 

Oh and I've never really seen people use those powers either. The only "1" power I see frequently is Hall of Mirrors.

 

are you one of those people that run infested missions and when they see one single runner cast world on fire instead of hitting in the face with a fireball?

[RealPandemonium]

are you one of those people that run infested missions and when they see one single runner cast world on fire instead of hitting in the face with a fireball?

Don't be silly, people don't actually play Ember.  They only demand buffs on the forums.

Edited December 17, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[DefactoOverlord]

I think that her 3 shouldn't be touched, I'd rather sacrifice damage return for better protection. Don't make this ability into Link 2.0, it's purpose is to protect Mesa and it does better job than Iron Skin at very high levels.