Nullifier Units, Their Impact On The Lore And Monetization (Real Talk)

[ThePresident777]

I love fast visceral pres 4 to win coptoring glass cannon and I disagree entirely with the OP.

 

The monetization problem with Warframe is the massive 160+ pile of mastery fodder weapons.  The monetization problem with warframe is that the developers in charge of the weapon mechanics are producing a vast pile of mastery fodder while the visual and audio artists are producing top quality work.  The visual and audio artists attempt to do their best, they reach for the highest quality, and it shows.  They don't think to themselves, "This will be the crappy visual/audio."  No, they think, "how can I make this awesome?" 

 

But, the developers making weapons do decide which weapons will be crap and which ones will not be crap, even if they look and sound, even feel, awesome, they are made to perform like crap.  That is the monetization problem with DE.  The monetization problem is not press 4 to win or glass cannon or coptoring or fast game play or hordes or easy mode because there is a huge audience for that.   There isn't a huge audience for crap weapons.

 

It is simply inconvenient to keep the vast majority of the weapons in this game.  With a few exceptions, most weapons are nothing more than awesome looking and sounding mastery fodder.  There is no point to buying a slot or a potatoe for, or putting forma in, mastery fodder.  And with DE's nucular nerf itch, it's questionable if it's worth spending money at all on Warframe, unless you're mainly interested in cosmetics, or are content with the F2P experience.  You can let some other fool buy the plat while you trade some valuable to them for it before they get bored, or &!$$ed off at nerfs, and move on.

 

What DE needs to do to stop wasting so many opportunities here is stop making mastery fodder.  Make weapons worth the convenience money they have built Warframe's business model on.

 

All weapon's should have an upgrade path to maximum power, whatever that power ceiling is.  Warframe should have Weapon Tier Potatoes, as I have expounded on.

 

Weapon Tier Potatoes should upgrade weapons to the next weapon tier.  The more weapon tiers there are, the more weapon tier potatoes you can put in a weapon.  There is a max weapon tier so there is a maximum number of Weapon Tier Potatoes you can put in a weapon.  All weapons in a weapon teir must be objectively equally effective, within an acceptable margin.

 

This way, DE can crank out weapons, professionally, doing the highest quality work, and the players can have massive choice and variety that they can confidently and conveniently invest in knowing their investment is safe and performance is guaranteed.

Edited December 17, 2014 by ThePresident777

[BlueSabre]

Most of the people who I've seen posting on this forum don't even know what real grinding is either. They mistake the gambling which is the huge majority of Warframe's earnable content with grinding. Every kill is a roll of the dice, every five minutes in Survival is a roll of the dice. DE has taken gambling way too far. We don't earn our weapons, our resources, our mods (except for the select ones for Syndicates), or our prime parts. We win them. The only time we do earn them is off of Alerts.

 

I don't know why, but the way DE has been handling Warframe it seems like "earning" has very little place in Warframe. They might as well call the Void the Orokin Casino.

As soon as i read this one thing popped into my head, the house always wins.

 

I used to find waframe immensely enthralling, but with each consecutive update i grow more dissapointed with the "progress".

 

:/

[HibikiGanaha]

I've had similar results with my Gammacor, and incidentally, a flux rifle that's far, far less dps.

 

However, I did notice the shield continued to shrink and eventually burst even after I stopped firing.  I was solo, so it wasn't net lag.  Seems possible the things have a DPS cap, and they simply always require a minimum amount of time to burst.

 

That would imply a simple tactical change - dump the DPS then get in cover for a moment.

This is not gears of war, there is no cover.  Where do you take cover defending any point in void interception?  The only "tactic" is to eat all the bullets with iron skin for 3-6 seconds and reapply when it falls off.

[Noteybook]

+1 to you, op, you worded this better then most people could.

DE having a lot of knee jerk reactions lately, and each one just makes it clearer how out of touch they are. I mean heck, on a recent live stream, Steve was convinced Viver was the lowest point this entire year. That is so strange to me, but it might explain the recent added units.

[AM-Bunny]

I don't think the lore is that much of a stretch. 

 

We know that Alad V captured and experimented on many Warframes. Nef Anyo was also stated to be in possession of many of them, and sold them on the black market. With all that time to analyze them under a microscope, it's not far-fetched to think the Corpus have found what makes them tick. This isn't even the first Corpus unit that has this ability. Remember Zanuka Hunter?

 

And to answer your question to how the Tenno haven't been wiped out by these Nullifier units, I think with respect to the canon, the Tenno are also masters of the gun and sword and don't need to rely on power spammage like we do in the actual game.

 

Explain why there aren't Tenno-hunter squads in Corpus, since they find it very profitable to hunt warframes and make abominations out of them. Explain Explain Explain. Do you see my point? There is no logic, no connection. Where there is no connection, the lore is rotten.

 

Um, this is exactly what the hyena units are. And yes, Nef Anyo was specifically stated to be selling Warframes on the black market for money, and Alad V does have a history of making abominations out of them. Maybe you need to actually pay attention.

[Rorgal_Sina]

Let's get to the roots. Why do we play this game?

 

As of now, most people identify this game as a grinding simulator. It is to try to obtain everything in this game for a weird thing called "Mastery Rank EXP" in hopes that it would actually mean something. It currently doesnt. And so this zeal for "finishing off the content" brought this meta called "grinding", which leads to min-maxing, repetitive runs, and the terrible idea of "Mastery Fodder".

 

So this "Beta" game, does not yet even have a clear direction, has formulated a grinding simulator that most people identify this game as. People never understood what DE wants. "To create a space ninja game, be cool, have interesting lore..." Does it involve the RNG fiasco? Does it involve playing repetitive missions over and over again? Does it involve having lots of content aimed towards farming? These are part of the game, and even though they're most likely still work-in-progress or subject to change, they're what defines Warframe for now. The whole space ninja theme is merely the skin, but this is currently just a grind-based game. And players will remember it as such.

 

And all of this is in work-in-progress. Many of the players have preferred DE look back at what needs fixing and updating, but new releases simply nod towards the direction of "Grinding" increasingly. Heck, even the quests and syndicates lead to more grinding instead of establishing a potential storyline. The only thing that ever satisfied my plot-needs were the events, and those aren't coming back, or at least any time soon.

 

I'm more annoyed with the fact that DE is adopting Warframe as Grindframe, and players recognizing and living with such. While I'm never bothered with DE being claimed to have "milk" money out of costumers, I'm more bothered with this game, the meta, becoming what it is today. There are really two main types of players in this case:

 

1. Players that just want to enjoy the gameplay, progress, get rewards, and play more. These players are okay with grinding. Most players are. However, DE's notorious use of RNG in the grinding elements doesn't satisfy these players. They'll eventually see the pattern and probably leave.

 

2. Players that want to enjoy the gameplay, progress in strength AND storyline, feel accomplished and be amazed at the things they experienced, and enjoy the Warframe Universe. These players coexist with the first type, however aren't satisfied with DE's grind based direction. If this game was all about repetitive farming plaqued by RNG, then there's no universe to look for in here.

 

Players can be 1 and 2. Neither is satisfied. It's true that DE needs some profit through Warframe, but they need to make sure they're actually developing the game at the same time. Adding more grind content is not a positive development. I'm sure everything's still work-in-progress, and DE may actually have plans, but I really hope DE can tone down on the grind and progress towards balancing, bug fixing, updating, and confiming every outdated or obsolete content that deserves such. Outdated mods and weapons from Damage 1.0 are an example. Parkour is being replaced by this "bandaid" melee-based movement. Poor Ember still needs looking at. And pretty much a bunch of other stuff.

 

For me, a person enjoying the game currently, I don't play for the same reasons other people do. I'm only MR 8, when I can go much higher. I don't get weapons and frames for MR, I get only the weapons I like and want. I don't grind for the sake of completing this game. I grind for things as a long term goal. When Zephyr first came out, I was hyped. I was still a noob incapable of getting her, and I made it a long term goal to get her. I slowly improved my clan, and slowly accumulated Oxium while playing other parts of this game while improving my gear as a whole. When I got Zephyr, I wasn't disappointed by her inability to go into super high level content, and therefore didn't consider her a "grind tool". She was something that brought me fun, and I never regretted my choices. I therefore remain at a slower pace than everyone else, and have alot of content left to enjoy. I'm a type 2 player that I listed above, and knowing DE's capabilities, I wished for the dreams to come true. The first tutorial mission was promising, and that gave me confidence. Yes, finally a game that I'm still enjoying and looking foward to its updates!

 

However, I know how most players hated this level of grind. My attempts to grind were either successful or ended up with a few quick deals on Trading Chat. I never spent money on this game. But I know this grind, not because of experience, but because of observation. So many players hating this idea of grind while I'm least affected because of my different mindset. DE, it's about time you make your decisions clear.

 

Is Warframe going to be a game known for its notorious grinding, or what?

 

PS: I have no idea how the Nullifiers are lore-breaking, nor will I really try to argue against you.

[Liminal]

Or they simply scavenged the parts off their Orokin salvaging trips, then went and attempted to integrate them into the Corpus troops, and that is the result. 

Considering the Lotus always tells us "this will be a pain, Tenno, go stop its development now!" (Hyena, Fomorians, Arctic Eximus galore, Earth poison ... you name it) it really comes out of nowhere that the Corpus now have mini Stalkers and we are just supposed to swallow that pill.

 

Also, why would the Corpus develop this thing before the Tenno woke up? There was nothing to nullify.

If it was developed some time ago, why didn't the Grineer make them hand it over? They've gone to war for far less.

Why did they send nullifiers to the Void? There are no Tenno there.

Why doesn't every Corpus VIP/Boss have this? Why don't they install this on running MOAs or ospreys that chase us? Why don't they just throw these at us?

How is this still experimental when the results are 100% predictable and absolutely reliable? That's not the definition of experimental. They should field them all over the system.

 

It may not be exactly lore breaking, but it kills suspension of disbelief for many of us. Yes, even in a space ninja game that barely has any lore.

[Renegade343]

Considering the Lotus always tells us "this will be a pain, Tenno, go stop its development now!" (Hyena, Fomorians, Arctic Eximus galore, Earth poison ... you name it) it really comes out of nowhere that the Corpus now have mini Stalkers and we are just supposed to swallow that pill.

Well, they have been studying the Orokin technology and stuff for quite some time now. And for all we know, the Corpus Board could have took some of Alad V's research into Warframes and Tenno, and tried to use it to make something that would stop us from disrupting their business. 

 

Also, why would the Corpus develop this thing before the Tenno woke up? There was nothing to nullify.

Ever heard of prototypes? 

 

The Corpus most likely have left the prototypes in the labs to continue improving it so it could be experimented on the battlefield, which was up until recently. 

 

Why did they send nullifiers to the Void? There are no Tenno there.

To stop bullets, for one. 

 

And more likely just in case some Prime Warframe wakes up and starts shooting their buttocks full of bolts. 

 

Why doesn't every Corpus VIP/Boss have this? Why don't they install this on running MOAs or ospreys that chase us? Why don't they just throw these at us?

Very expensive to produce, very difficult to produce etc.. 

 

How is this still experimental when the results are 100% predictable and absolutely reliable? That's not the definition of experimental. They should field them all over the system.

Experimental as in 'just released on the battlefield to test its effectiveness'. 

 

I mean, that backpack looks quite heavy, for one, and I believe that its power consumption makes shielding power decrease (amongst other things). 

[Liminal]

Well, they have been studying the Orokin technology and stuff for quite some time now. And for all we know, the Corpus Board could have took some of Alad V's research into Warframes and Tenno, and tried to use it to make something that would stop us from disrupting their business. 

And we just stood by while they did that. That's my point. That's what makes it a hard sell for me.

 

Ever heard of prototypes? 

The Corpus most likely have left the prototypes in the labs to continue improving it so it could be experimented on the battlefield, which was up until recently. 

To stop bullets, for one. 

And more likely just in case some Prime Warframe wakes up and starts shooting their buttocks full of bolts. 

If it's experimental, why take it "just in case". You take something reliable to deal with surprises, not something that's being tested. Reliable like the Arctic Eximus, unless those are experimental too. 

 

Very expensive to produce, very difficult to produce etc.. 

The number of nullifiers says otherwise. Truly experimental gear isn't mass produced like these things.

 

Experimental as in 'just released on the battlefield to test its effectiveness'. 

It's been experimental since before we woke up? They've been in beta for longer than Warframe! Or, if it was developed after we woke up: why didn't we try to stop it? Besides, it's extremely effective, a few runs should have proven that already.

[Janzer]

"And now? Suddenly, almost every faction has a way to completely deny abilities." - Suddenly, after two years of development in our time, but I have no idea what that translates to lore time.

 

Are we expecting that the technological society of the Corpus WOULDN'T figure out a nullifying shield at some point?

 

It's not like it's an AOE nullifying bomb. It's one dude moving slowly, who's shield you can "nullify" with some bullets. They even weakened it quite a lot.

[Liminal]

"And now? Suddenly, almost every faction has a way to completely deny abilities." - Suddenly, after two years of development in our time, but I have no idea what that translates to lore time.

 

Are we expecting that the technological society of the Corpus WOULDN'T figure out a nullifying shield at some point?

By that logic in a couple of years all corpus ships should be covered in nullifying fields. I surely won't enjoy Warframe in 2016.

Also, why didn't we stop them? We went and stopped Hyenas from becoming "mainstream" after all.

[vaugahn]

Are we expecting that the technological society of the Corpus WOULDN'T figure out a nullifying shield at some point?

 

If they even figured it out by themselves at all.

 

Here's a little lore tidbit many people forget:

 

"Their production methods blend technology and ritual, in-part, because the ancient Orokin materials they use are inscrutable to them."

 

They don't really understand the technology they use. They understand its applications, and how it works in principle, but to them it's essentially a black box. Why do you think they put so much effort into recovering Orokin artifacts? It's because they need them to keep their tech going, as they can't make the components they use themselves.

 

They might not have even made the nullifier. It's probably just some Orokin thing they dug up and started copying. And it's definitely not too much of a stretch to assume the Orokin had tech like that.

[Archistopheles]

Then again, one could make Derelict Keys very easily, so that is one minor flaw in your argument.

Credits.

DE is starting to cut off avenues that aquire credits quickly. Putting parts in missions that only pay out ~5000 reward credits while making the player pay ~5000 per key is a Net 0 for the host, and only +15,000 for the entire team.

Compare that to T4 missions: 0 cost for the host, and ~23,000 per person.

[Jukantos]

The problem i see here is a change in the fundamental goal of monetization. I am more than happy and willing to spend money on cool cosmetics, colors, skins, warframe attachments and other decorative pieces to show my love for this game. I'm not quite happy with the way they've monetized crafting waiting-times and new content (effectively selling newly released equipment at an asking price of over 20 bucks per update if you want it instantly and you don't have a coupon).

But i'm willing to forgive that. I'd rather wait 3 days per frame and buy an awesome immortal skin for it than own it 3 days earlier. Give me that content and i'll buy it.

What i'm NOT okay with is the idea that to develop the full strength of a frame or a weapon you'll have to level it to the exp cap several times (aka Forma) and subsequently directly attacking every good exp source in the game. Comparing the current exp farmability in the game to pre-mesa (15.4) you're seeing Dark Sectors to be much harder and less reliable, all exploit farms destroyed to the best of DE's ability (not mad about that one) and the void also under attack.

Exp already scales up bloody badly from early- to lategame content. When i only had access to mid-level mods and gear i used to farm exp on Mercury Lares because i'd get my butt handed to me on sechura and i wasn't getting THAT much less experience per time, with each unit still giving me ~60 exp while sechura offered ~90. Exp scales WAY too slowly and badly with enemy level.

And then you go ahead and ramp up the difficulty across all the lategame content WITHOUT scaling the exp up in any way? Feels cheesy. Want me to go back to Mercury Farming and (spoilers, probably the next thing to get hotfixxed) Dark Sector Excavation on Earth? (Grineer Units with really low level, nice exp farming and finally a way to saturate my neurode needs because Eris even with the Dark Sectors simply refused to deliver).

If you want people to continously spend money on your game, offer them cool content for it, don't just basically gate them from getting new gear for the first ~2 weeks before making their droprates anything worth being called realistic. All i'm gonna say is Hikou Prime Pouch.

I'm sorry, with the recent developments, WHY should i trust you to offer decent prime part drop rates in Orokin Derelict Survival and Defense? When at the same time instant Prime Access is available for up to 140€? Why wouldn't you just make the drop rates ludicrously low? Plus, right after introducing the Orokin Ducats as a way of making socalled "Crap" Prime Parts usefull, you force us into Orokin Derelict where we get bog-standard defense and survival mods instead of Prime Parts while digging for Nova. That feels ODDly inconvenient (pun intended).

You should embrace your playerbases needs and urges and cater to them by delivering awesome content at a reasonable price, there are plenty of people who will buy a 10th set of decorative armor if it's cool looking, me included. Don't look to gate them off of stuff unless they shell out the cash for it, that creates a negative experience, a negative feeling about monetizing and that is NOT what you want, trust me. That's the way to reduce your community size to the absolute hardcore fans, which then will eventually leave because there are no more casual and free2play players around to serve as content for them (in this case teammates and newbies to feed up, i mean, i'm getting a lot of enjoyment out of helping new players getting started with some auras or Vor mods, helping feels awesome.)

Please try to turn the monetizing experience back into something players WANT to do, instead of something they feel forced into because otherwise their progress will be artificially halted.

Extra Credits have done a video that can be applied pretty well to the current development and where it might go in the long run if you continue down this path, which i'd really rather not see. And i'm sorry, i have to say i won't monetize / spend money on warframe while you're following this type of policy because i think that is the way to make the guys in suits giving the orders who aren't as passionate about the game as the designers on the board, realize they've chosen the wrong path.

Just something to consider: Had i had the chance to pick up the Darga Prime Armor Set for 20€ i am absolutely certain i would've done it. But i didn't feel the need or desire for the experience and credit boosters that came along with it (because i should NOT be NEEDING those if i'm willing to invest time into the game instead!) and i didn't wanna shell out 45€ for a package that i felt had most of its asking price BECAUSE of those boosts. That's just something i had to get off of my mind.

TL;DR: Monetization has to get a positive feeling to it again, for cosmetic customization, instead of feeling like an enforced matter of progress and/or (Prime) content (Prime) access. It shouldn't feel like DE is developing AGAINST the playerbase.

[Renegade343]

By that logic in a couple of years all corpus ships should be covered in nullifying fields. I surely won't enjoy Warframe in 2016.

Also, why didn't we stop them? We went and stopped Hyenas from becoming "mainstream" after all.

No?

 

I mean, we only stopped them (a bit) when we discovered them. Not beforehand. 

 

Besides, we just murdered the completed ones, not destroyed the facility. 

 

Credits.

DE is starting to cut off avenues that aquire credits quickly. Putting parts in missions that only pay out ~5000 reward credits while making the player pay ~5000 per key is a Net 0 for the host, and only +15,000 for the entire team.

Compare that to T4 missions: 0 cost for the host, and ~23,000 per person.

Still very easy to make Derelict Keys (just a few Nav Coordinates that drops like rain, Common Resources, a tiny sum of credits, and done). 

[Renegade343]

 

 

We always have been standing by while the other factions are doing things. I mean, there is the Oxium Osprey event (where we waited until Oxium Ospreys actually came into production), the Tethra's Doom event (where we also waited around until Vay Hek said that he was going to make Fomorians), and a few other events. 

 

 If it's experimental, why take it "just in case". You take something reliable to deal with surprises, not something that's being tested. Reliable like the Arctic Eximus, unless those are experimental too. 

Because someone needs to test it to see if the thing would actually function as it does in the lab as on the battlefield. 

 

And yes, Arctic Eximus are also experimental, in the sense that their Snow Globe powers need a long time to recharge (compared to Frost's Snow Globe). 

 

 

The number of nullifiers says otherwise. Truly experimental gear isn't mass produced like these things.

Oxium Ospreys would like to have a word with you then. 

 

Anyways, they do not spawn that frequently, not to mention that they would have stolen some off from Orokin ship salvaging, so there is that rather deep source as well. 

 

 

It's been experimental since before we woke up? They've been in beta for longer than Warframe! Or, if it was developed after we woke up: why didn't we try to stop it? Besides, it's extremely effective, a few runs should have proven that already.

They have no need for that thing, simply because we were still asleep.

 

And really, when did we ever stop something pre-emptively in the game? And no, it is not that effective, because that shield can be taken down by almost every source of bullets very, very quickly, and that user has very frail shields. 

[Liminal]

And really, when did we ever stop something pre-emptively in the game? 

We stopped Earth's poisoning, more Fomorians (we stole their reactors), and Cryotic Front and Gate Crash were preemptive as well.

 

And no, it is not that effective, because that shield can be taken down by almost every source of bullets very, very quickly, and that user has very frail shields. 

Then the theory that it was in development before Tenno woke up is wrong since Grineer laugh at those shields: better give your soldiers rank 2 Redirection mods.

 

It's real usefulness is negating Tenno abilities. Lore-wise, it's the first step in the road towards complete Tenno-screwing tech, and we are just ignoring it.

[Renegade343]

We stopped Earth's poisoning, more Fomorians (we stole their reactors), and Cryotic Front and Gate Crash were preemptive as well.

They were already quite underway before we started to react to it, given the structures of the Cicero Toxin Injectors and Fomorian core shipyards. 

 

Cryotic Front may be preemptive, but Gate Crash definitely was not. 

 

Then the theory that it was in development before Tenno woke up is wrong since Grineer laugh at those shields: better give your soldiers rank 2 Redirection mods.

 

It's real usefulness is negating Tenno abilities. Lore-wise, it's the first step in the road towards complete Tenno-screwing tech, and we are just ignoring it.

Really, they have two years (in terms of game development, so that could translate to around a bit more) to adapt to the Tenno. Given how much they have retrieved Orokin Artefacts, the chances that they were starting to find a way to counter the just awoken Tenno were quite high. 

 

And Magnetic status effects screws up our technology, yet no one seems to be complaining about it. 

[Liminal]

They were already quite underway before we started to react to it, given the structures of the Cicero Toxin Injectors and Fomorian core shipyards. 

We stopped them before it happened. Or does preemptive mean we should stop them from mining the iron used to make the machines? Or to develop the technology to make pickaxes to mine for it?

 

Gate Crash definitely was not. 

We stopped them before they could mess with out AW stuff. The second we learned that they learned we rolled out.

 

And Magnetic status effects screws up our technology, yet no one seems to be complaining about it. 

Because #1 it's a common physical phenomena, #2 we can all use it, and more importantly: #3 you have to get shot for it to work, which means that unless Corpus ships deal constant damage to everyone inside all the time, they can't develop it into gtfo-Tenno-tech.

[Renegade343]

We stopped them before it happened. Or does preemptive mean we should stop them from mining the iron used to make the machines? Or to develop the technology to make pickaxes to mine for it?

Stop them from building the giant structures that then start to function (for Cicero Toxin), or destroy the shipyards before even letting them start building the cores (for Fomorians). 

 

We stopped them before they could mess with out AW stuff. The second we learned that they learned we rolled out.

Not really. If it were not for the Void Trader, we might have never went to stop the Grineer from destroying it. 

 

Because #1 it's a common physical phenomena, #2 we can all use it, and more importantly: #3 you have to get shot for it to work, which means that unless Corpus ships deal constant damage to everyone inside all the time, they can't develop it into gtfo-Tenno-tech.

The point that it stills screws up Warframe technology is already an indicator that our technology is not impervious to everything. 

 

Heck, even the Grineer have their Magnetic sensor bars that screw up our Warframe technology too. So, the possibility of having another thing that screws up our Warframe technology is entirely possible (even more so with the Prime Codex lore snippets, since they hint towards having to control their powers to actually use them as weapons). 

[Liminal]

Stop them from building the giant structures that then start to function (for Cicero Toxin), or destroy the shipyards before even letting them start building the cores (for Fomorians). 

We stopped their plan before they could complete it. It's still preemptive. We didn't wait and regrow the forests nor did we attack the completed Fomorians.

 

Not really. If it were not for the Void Trader, we might have never went to stop the Grineer from destroying it. 

It doesn't change anything, we still stopped their plans the second we learned about them. Before they could complete them.

 

The point that it stills screws up Warframe technology is already an indicator that our technology is not impervious to everything. 

 

Heck, even the Grineer have their Magnetic sensor bars that screw up our Warframe technology too. So, the possibility of having another thing that screws up our Warframe technology is entirely possible (even more so with the Prime Codex lore snippets, since they hint towards having to control their powers to actually use them as weapons). 

I'm not saying we are impervious, I'm saying the Lotus should have detected the development, existence or massive deployment of these guys. It's a significant game changer for the Tenno and nobody seems to care.

 

The Grineer doors at least damage everyone so they can't use it to target Tenno specifically, and it doesn't move around like nullifiers do (also, the Grineer don't really seem like the kind of guys that make great technological advances).

 

Lore-wise, we are not doing anything about these guys. They just showed up and we are supposed to act like they've been always there.

[Renegade343]

We stopped their plan before they could complete it. It's still preemptive. We didn't wait and regrow the forests nor did we attack the completed Fomorians.

We already have the Fomorians starting to come out already, so that has already been partially moot with regards to being preemptive or not, because Vay Hek already has a few in stock. 

 

And they were already destroying a bit of the forest before the Lotus realised it. Preemptive would be stopping the toxins from being produced in the first place. 

 

I'm not saying we are impervious, I'm saying the Lotus should have detected the development, existence or massive deployment of these guys. It's a significant game changer for the Tenno and nobody seems to care.

Thing is, she never really went and detected the development, existence or massive deployment of the Drahk Masters (only up until the recent Tactical Alert, did she start to be indirectly aware of them), a new enemy that can now utilise Kubrows for their own battles, as well as being able to disarm Tenno and potentially use the weapon too. 

 

The Grineer doors at least damage everyone so they can't use it to target Tenno specifically, and it doesn't move around like nullifiers do (also, the Grineer don't really seem like the kind of guys that make great technological advances).

That is more of a gameplay oversight, if anything. 

 

And the Grineer are starting to make rather relatively notable technological advances with making plasma bullets and using the electromagnetic spectrum as a weapon. 

 

Lore-wise, we are not doing anything about these guys. They just showed up and we are supposed to act like they've been always there.

Yet again, same thing with the Drahk Masters (and also the Sapping Ospreys too). More likely, they would start to get recognised in a Tactical Alert. 

[StinkyPygmy]

I appreciate the thought you put into this thread and how it doesn't reek of trying to start a flame war, but dang.

 

I don't even know where to begin to find the words to convey how much I disagree with 90% of the OP and my bewilderment as to how this even crossed your mind.

This last part in particular is ridiculous.

"TL;DR: Not only do Nullifier Units conflict with the lore (why haven't the tenno been wiped out of the factions have this kind of stuff available to them) but i also suspect they were introduced for the completely wrong reasons (maintaing monetization on affinity boosters while catering to founders by not directly nerfing their precious excalibur prime). It's a bold accusation to make, but it's just too plausible."

 

Here's a short and quick answer: 

1. Nullifier units don't conflict with lore. Just because one unit is equipped with very situational power nullifing tech it doesn't stop the Tenno from using their superior combat skills and strength. The Tenno aren't just known for their powers but also their combat prowess. Not to mention any automatic/semiautomatic weapon will take them down fast. 

 

2. your assessment that they we're introduced to make money makes little sense. If they we're introduced for any other reason then someone at DE thinking it would be cool it would be to counter ult spamming. Not necessarily the best solution (if it was intended to be one) but still incredibly more likely then your idea.

Nullifiers don't stop you from leveling a weapon from 0-30 in a few hours with or without a booster. The same power leveling strats can be employed.

This wouldn't be a very efficient money making scheme and DE knows well enough that cosmetics are endlessly more effective (possibly more effective then plat to beat RNG).

 

3.Nerfing founders excalbro P?

What? How?

In what world does that make sense? Excalabro P is no different to regular excal for a start and nulls hurt a tonne of other frames way more then excal. There isn't even anything for DE to nerf for regular excal let alone excals shiny brother who, I repeat, is no different statwise. If you think any of DE's recent actions has to do with appeasing founders and not nerfing the precious Prime that mostly gathers dust then your barking up the wrong tree and making connections where there is none.

EVERYONE would be/are mad if exacl to a big hit, as demonstrated by the great Viver nerf of 2014.

 

Actually you know what? I take it back.

Either this was a really elaborate troll thread or you've had your tinfoil hat on too long.

This reads like the deranged ramblings of a paranoid conspiracy theorist (not trying to be harsh but honestly thats the impression I've got).

I don't have the energy to put up a more compelling and thorough (or coherent) response but theres my two cents.

Edited December 18, 2014 by StinkyPygmy

[Liminal]

 

We already have the Fomorians starting to come out already, so that has already been partially moot with regards to being preemptive or not, because Vay Hek already has a few in stock. 

 

And they were already destroying a bit of the forest before the Lotus realised it. Preemptive would be stopping the toxins from being produced in the first place. 

The toxins could have existed for ages, they could be cyanide for all we know, we can't prevent that. The injectors could be simple widespread technology as well. We stopped their plans because the results would have been way more complicated for us. We prevented the destruction of forests and the construction of more Fomorians (even if we failed, we tried).

 

Thing is, she never really went and detected the development, existence or massive deployment of the Drahk Masters (only up until the recent Tactical Alert, did she start to be indirectly aware of them), a new enemy that can now utilise Kubrows for their own battles, as well as being able to disarm Tenno and potentially use the weapon too. 

 

And the Grineer are starting to make rather relatively notable technological advances with making plasma bullets and using the electromagnetic spectrum as a weapon. 

 

Yet again, same thing with the Drahk Masters (and also the Sapping Ospreys too). More likely, they would start to get recognised in a Tactical Alert. 

But none of those things could evolve into power nullifying tech that doesn't affect the Corpus/Grineer themselves at all.

 

 

When the justification for something requires a lot of individual explanations it starts to sound like excuses to me. Blame that on WF's incomplete and mostly incoherent lore if you will, but something still seems off. I guess we just have to agree to disagree on this!

[Renegade343]

The toxins could have existed for ages, they could be cyanide for all we know, we can't prevent that. The injectors could be simple widespread technology as well. We stopped their plans because the results would have been way more complicated for us. We prevented the destruction of forests and the construction of more Fomorians (even if we failed, we tried).

I am pretty sure that would not be as simple as cyanide, because the Orokin would have known that too. 

 

Not to mention that cyanide cannot exist in itself.