Lotus In Bloom [Ooc]

[SnaleKing]

You heat up the bullet casing to a high enough temperature (or higher, due to heat loss from conduction), and although the casing itself is a good conductor of heat, it would take a small bit of time for the gunpowder to start igniting because of it (due to heat transfer). So, technically, you could ignite the gunpowder in the clip and have a bit of time to slot it back into the weapon through heating the casing up (and after a small bit, igniting the gunpowder within).

And you think a spectra, an industrial welder repurposed and retooled for war, has the precise control over it's power output to heat a bullet casing exactly enough to make the bullet go off on a time delay?

[Renegade343]

And you think a spectra, an industrial welder repurposed and retooled for war, has the precise control over it's power output to heat a bullet casing exactly enough to make the bullet go off on a time delay?

It would take a small bit of time to get the casing heated up, given that it is a small, portable cutting laser (and actually takes time to reach its full length, but since lasers tend to be almost immediate, I just went with needing time to reach full power, which is more plausible than taking time to reach full length), and that a typical bullet casing/jacket is around 0.02 - 0.03 cm. 

 

So, a very small time delay (enough for a Tenno to quickly slot the clip back in, provided that the clip was already quite close to the weapon in question).

[Drakeardian]

Oh lord, Here we go again

Edited January 16, 2015 by Drakeardian

[Revel72]

Fights are unavoidable Drakeardian. In IRL or in here. This is humanity and it should stay as this.

[Drakeardian]

Fights are unavoidable Drakeardian. In IRL or in here. This is humanity and it should stay as this.

I don't recall going philosophical in my post.

[Revel72]

Well would you like to live in perfect world? Arguments are pretty much part of our every day lives. NEARLY.

[Drakeardian]

Well would you like to live in perfect world? Arguments are pretty much part of our every day lives. NEARLY.

...

 

Um....okay.....

[Revel72]

I wouldn't like to live in world without arguments. Just think about laws and arguments what has had been gone through on them. For example you do know the law about women rights? Would it exist if there wasn't any argument about women deserving to be seen even on rights with men? I am bad at choosing words so this might be difficult to follow.

[Sumika1204]

I still wonder why Revel is even hanging around this thread since he's not allowed to join.

 

It would take a small bit of time to get the casing heated up, given that it is a small, portable cutting laser (and actually takes time to reach its full length, but since lasers tend to be almost immediate, I just went with needing time to reach full power, which is more plausible than taking time to reach full length), and that a typical bullet casing/jacket is around 0.02 - 0.03 cm. 

 

So, a very small time delay (enough for a Tenno to quickly slot the clip back in, provided that the clip was already quite close to the weapon in question).

 

A Spectra uses up 2 ammo to reach its maximum range of 15 meters which means that with an ammo consumption of 5 ammo per second, it takes 0.4 seconds to reach full length.

 

A Spectra is intended for deep space construction, which due to it being a laser, I assume means it's being used for cutting and welding. However, the Tenno re-purposed it as a weapon which if it is done anything like the Flux Rifle, could mean removing safeguards to allow higher power output. You're telling us that Alfrond is using a laser capable of cutting through the alloys the Corpus use in making ships and stations and has possibly had its safeguard removed yet is capable of heating the magazine for just long enough that the laser does not cut through the relatively thin casing, creating a hole or cut deep enough to create a significant weak-point in the structure? All while while providing enough heat to, as a result of heat transfer, cause the gunpowder in the bullets to ignite after the clip has been put back in?

 

While gasses will travel through the path that offers least resistance to their movement, they also exert force on all surrounding matter. Particles in gasses are in constant, random motion which means that if the Spectra burnt a weak-point into the casing of the magazine, the pressure from the internal explosions and the gasses could rupture the magazine. That means the hot gasses and shrapnel get vented not just through the barrel but through a hole in the magazine.

[Revel72]

This is OOC. Not IC if I watch correctly through my glasses. Though you guys not only one having problems with Renegade just saying. You might have seen it already.

[Renegade343]

A Spectra is intended for deep space construction, which due to it being a laser, I assume means it's being used for cutting and welding. However, the Tenno re-purposed it as a weapon which if it is done anything like the Flux Rifle, could mean removing safeguards to allow higher power output. You're telling us that Alfrond is using a laser capable of cutting through the alloys the Corpus use in making ships and stations and has possibly had its safeguard removed yet is capable of heating the magazine for just long enough that the laser does not cut through the relatively thin casing, creating a hole or cut deep enough to create a significant weak-point in the structure? All while while providing enough heat to, as a result of heat transfer, cause the gunpowder in the bullets to ignite after the clip has been put back in?

I took the time for the laser to reach full length (because that is already more illogical elements upon its illogical hardcap range, since lasers do not magically have a hard cap in real life) as the time taken for the laser (which was already at full length when it starts to fire) to reach full power, meaning it would take a small time to heat up and slice through the metal, then start igniting the gunpowder. 

 

While gasses will travel through the path that offers least resistance to their movement, they also exert force on all surrounding matter. Particles in gasses are in constant, random motion which means that if the Spectra burnt a weak-point into the casing of the magazine, the pressure from the internal explosions and the gasses could rupture the magazine. That means the hot gasses and shrapnel get vented not just through the barrel but through a hole in the magazine.

True, but the magnitude of the force exerted would be more on the path of least resistance, and less on the other places (since after all, it takes less work [or force, disregarding distance] to get to/travel along the path of resistance). 

 

And did I not mention that I will go edit it sometime today already?

[S.T.M.P.D]

This is OOC. Not IC if I watch correctly through my glasses. Though you guys not only one having problems with Renegade just saying. You might have seen it already.

Yes, but it's an OOC for the people actually playing in it; you're contributing nothing noteworthy to the discussion of our little story. In fact, you're derailing it. I would put up with you if you were part of the whole shebang, but you are not. As such, I think we'd all appreciate it if you let us solve our own problems, please.

I don't give a damn if you have problems with Renegade over in your story. You chew him out in your damn OOC.

[Revel72]

No need to get angry about my comments or if you do. Sent it on PM. So have I suggested something on the story? On my part I haven't said about it anything. I am attempting to derail the argument on going before something much worse comes out but if you don't want me to be part of it. Okay I will stand away from it and let you suffer it. It is fine to me.

[SnaleKing]

Aight, did some research. Gunpowder needs to be at about 430 degrees celsius to detonate. As an analog for Grakata ammo, I used stats for the standard round for an AK-47. It has 8.4 grams of red brass as its casing, which has a specific heat (joules required to raise one gram by one degree) of 0.38 j/g; so, it takes 0.38 joules to raise one gram by one degree.

 

As a loose analog for a spectra, which is probably an understatement, I used the measurements of a modern cutting laser used for stainless steel. A decent middle-of-the-road model uses a one-megawatt laser to cut through 2mm of steel at a rate of 13cm/s, which seems about right.

 

It takes one megawatt of energy about 0.0012 seconds, or 1.2 milliseconds, to raise that bullet's casing to gunpowder's flash point. That's 1/300th of the time it takes to blink. 

 

Alfrond could not have timed that. Even if he could somehow set a timer on the spectra, he couldn't do the requisite equations that fast. Even if he could, a spectra is not built for that kind of precision.

[WingedCrusade]

EVERYONE. Temperance has asked of us to quit bickering and quit derailing many times.
 

PLEASE. STOP.

 

RENEGADE, GUNPOWDER + SUPER HEATED LASER = BOOM.

Chemistry and physics theories and paper equations don't always amount to real freaking life.

 

SNALE, STOP ENCOURAGING IT.

 

Revel and Drake... I don't even know. Don't go off topic.

 

EVERYONE JUST - WHY ARE WE BICKERING?

This is ridiculous that anyone even has to say this anymore.

 

Temperance doesn't want to have to deal with this, so why should you all keep this up?

 

Stop, please. Keep it civil and on topic.

Edited January 16, 2015 by WingedCrusade

[Temperance000]

Scientific improbabilities aside, what Alfrond just did requires at least three hands.  Also, has he no concept of personal property?  When Tacis says "confiscated," he does not mean "repurposed for generals use," he means "locked up and left alone."

 

Renegade, I have tried to be patient with you and your OC, but at this point, I am running out of reasons to let him live, much less keep him on the ship.  Tenno do not steal from each other.  Tenno do not needlessly endanger each other.  Tenno do not play "you can't have my toys."  Please edit your post to remove these scientifically and narratively improbable elements.

 

I do not know exactly what kind of backstory Alfrond has, but his actions up to this point have been more consistent with a spoiled, slightly paranoid child rather than a Tenno.  He always has to have the last word.  In RP, that is unacceptable.  Both he, and you, are going to have to learn to work within the confines of a narrative, Renegade.  I have said this before, and I will say it again:  you cannot use "clever" and a casual knowledge of physics and chemistry to weasel your way out of everything.

 

This is your final warning before I either co-opt your character as a permanent janitor, or find a vague excuse to have him killed.

 

-Temperance000

 

 

P.S.  Winged, thank you for your help.  I'll take it from here.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Temperance000

[Drakeardian]

EVERYONE. Temperance has asked of us to quit bickering and quit derailing many times.

 

PLEASE. STOP.

 

RENEGADE, GUNPOWDER + SUPER HEATED LASER = BOOM.

Chemistry and physics theories and paper equations don't always amount to real freaking life.

 

SNALE, STOP ENCOURAGING IT.

 

Revel and Drake... I don't even know. Don't go off topic.

 

EVERYONE JUST - WHY ARE WE BICKERING?

This is ridiculous that anyone even has to say this anymore.

 

Temperance doesn't want to have to deal with this, so why should you all keep this up?

 

Stop, please. Keep it civil and on topic.

Apologies about myself and Revel and I agree.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Drakeardian

[WingedCrusade]

Apologies about myself and Revel and I agree.

It's fine, we all stray now and again, what matters is that we catch and correct it, right?

[Achaix]

*Look of forlorn disappointment, questioning life, death and the universe*

Philosophy and gun mechanics aside, there's no denying that Alfrond is an @ss. Doesn't matter how you dress it up or justify it, Alfrond is now the Scrappy IC (while Revel is... still here? Why?)

Meh, ignore him.

Anyhoo, WiFi's a b!tch, so please forgive any long silences IC.

*Goes back into Real Life*

[WingedCrusade]

I think Revel's fine. He doesn't cause too much trouble and his presence here seem to only be every other day, honestly.

However, let's try not to talk about the argument as to not spurn it back on, Achaix, yes?

[Renegade343]

Aight, did some research. Gunpowder needs to be at about 430 degrees celsius to detonate. As an analog for Grakata ammo, I used stats for the standard round for an AK-47. It has 8.4 grams of red brass as its casing, which has a specific heat (joules required to raise one gram by one degree) of 0.38 j/g; so, it takes 0.38 joules to raise one gram by one degree.

Also did my own research. 

 

SMGs tend to use 9mmx19mm bullets, meaning that the casing used is also different. As it is a Grakata and made from the Grineer (who have lots of carbon steel Alloy Plates), the bullets would also be made from carbon steel (full metal jacket) (since the Grineer have a lot of that for armour and shipbuilding), and specific heat capacity is 0.49 J/(g*K), which means it takes just under 0.5 joules to raise the temperature of carbon steel by 1 degree Kelvin per gram. 

 

An average 9mm bullet would weigh around 8.0 - 8.2 grams, so that means overall, it takes more energy to heat up a Grakata bullet. 

 

As a loose analog for a spectra, which is probably an understatement, I used the measurements of a modern cutting laser used for stainless steel. A decent middle-of-the-road model uses a one-megawatt laser to cut through 2mm of steel at a rate of 13cm/s, which seems about right.

True, but remember that the Spectra does take time to reach full power, and since it takes 0.4s to do so (in a linear fashion, since the rate of increase in power is constant), that means it takes 0.4s to go from minimum power to full power (where full power would be your 1MW laser, since the Spectra is a small, pocket laser cutter [the Flux Rifle has more power]). 

 

That means it would also take more time to heat up the bullet itself, and therefore more time before the gunpowder hits flash point (not to mention that rate of heat convection must also be calculated as well with that, so that would also add on more time before the gunpowder explodes). 

 

Anyways, did I not already state that I am going to change it twice?

 

This is your final warning before I either co-opt your character as a permanent janitor, or find a vague excuse to have him killed.

I call your bluff. 

[SnaleKing]

Also did my own research. 

 

SMGs tend to use 9mmx19mm bullets, meaning that the casing used is also different. As it is a Grakata and made from the Grineer (who have lots of carbon steel Alloy Plates), the bullets would also be made from carbon steel (full metal jacket) (since the Grineer have a lot of that for armour and shipbuilding), and specific heat capacity is 0.49 J/(g*K), which means it takes just under 0.5 joules to raise the temperature of carbon steel by 1 degree Kelvin per gram. 

 

An average 9mm bullet would weigh around 8.0 - 8.2 grams, so that means overall, it takes more energy to heat up a Grakata bullet. 

 

True, but remember that the Spectra does take time to reach full power, and since it takes 0.4s to do so (in a linear fashion, since the rate of increase in power is constant), that means it takes 0.4s to go from minimum power to full power (where full power would be your 1MW laser, since the Spectra is a small, pocket laser cutter [the Flux Rifle has more power]). 

 

That means it would also take more time to heat up the bullet itself, and therefore more time before the gunpowder hits flash point (not to mention that rate of heat convection must also be calculated as well with that, so that would also add on more time before the gunpowder explodes). 

 

Anyways, did I not already state that I am going to change it twice?

 

Of all the dumb stuff you've said, in this post and others...

I call your bluff.

... this is the worst so far.

[Temperance000]

Well Renegade, don't say I didn't warn you, and don't say I didn't try.  I would be lying if I said it has been a pleasure RPing with you, but I wish you well in your other endeavors.

 

Regards,

Temperance000

[Renegade343]

Well Renegade, don't say I didn't warn you, and don't say I didn't try.  I would be lying if I said it has been a pleasure RPing with you, but I wish you well in your other endeavors.

Thing is, I am already editing that part out as we speak. 

[Drakeardian]

I have to admit, it was still a pretty stupid thing to say.