Pvp Is Such An Under Loved Aspect Of The Game

[KiteoHatto]

PvP in warframe is like cancer. It's bad stuff that spreads into the main game.

 

Warframe is just not designed to handle competitive gameplay. For pvp to work the game needs to have weapon/frame balances that allow everything to be viable, we don't have that here. We only have god tier and mastery trash.

[Chhkt]

1st time in PvP: "Ah, this isn't too bad, it's a good fight!"

 

2nd time in PvP: "Yikes we got ripped on that one, but I see why."

 

3rd time in PvP: "This is bull. I am not going to deal with Acrid from across the map and two max duration Invisible Lokis hellcamping the spawn gates with Scoliacs...hitting past the force field. I'm done."

[EmptyDevil]

PvP in warframe is like cancer. It's bad stuff that spreads into the main game.

Can you provide an example of when pvp has spread into the main game(pve)?

[havikryan]

I hate pvp because this is a PVE game and has already taken away content from PVE players which is just disgusting

[KiteoHatto]

Can you provide an example of when pvp has spread into the main game(pve)?

It breeds elitism.....which affects the main game. For example people using the cheapest tactics in pvp and then feeling like they are so much better than anyone else.

 

Then people try to find what cheap tactics they can use to get ahead in PVE content(excals mashing 4s without moving).

Then we have series of nerfs that affect pve for everyone, sure pvp-ers won't care but it hurts pve guys who weren't even abusing x,y,z.

 

Just the whole pvp crowd has a different attitude and outlook from normal pve-only players. I don't like pvpers, i'll be honest. I started playing this game for co-op and pve. Not so i can see how pvp-er boating how badass they are at x,y, z and how pve guys are filthy casuals.

Edited December 29, 2014 by kiteohatto

[EmptyDevil]

It breeds elitism.....which affects the main game. For example people using the cheapest tactics in pvp and then feeling like they are so much better than anyone else.

 

Then people try to find what cheap tactics they can use to get ahead in PVE content(excals mashing 4s without moving).

Then we have series of nerfs that affect pve for everyone, sure pvp-ers won't care but it hurts pve guys who weren't even abusing x,y,z.

 

Just the whole pvp crowd has a different attitude and outlook from normal pve-only players. I don't like pvpers, i'll be honest. I started playing this game for co-op and pve. Not so i can see how pvp-er boating how badass they are at x,y, z and how pve guys are filthy casuals.

Elitism does not exclusively come from pvp though. It can come simply from people believing mastery rank = better player. We all know that is not the case. Most times people learn these cheap tactics through experimenting in pve first. They want to find the most efficient way to take on enemy AIs at the lowest risk possible. After that if they are curious about pvp or already a participant in pvp, they will wonder if their cheap tactic will work against something smarter than an AI like a player. Again, simply people having items forma'd many times, max rank mods, or high mastery rank can breed elitism in people who despise pvp or simply do not want to touch it.

[DSpite]

Why is there so much hate for PvP? Sure I know the game is focused around PvE, but come on. People act like PvP shouldn't even exist in the game. Well, at least on the forums they get so much hate. Just about every suggestion I make or seen about adding a new PvP aspect to the game gets flamed up and shot down.

 

Because when you put humans against other humans any semblance of playing for fun goes out the window, and people play to win using whatever lowest denominator possible to archive it.

 

If one gun or class is discovered to be a one trick pony, then a particular section of the player base will just use that and nothing else, regardless of the fact that winning will have zero consequences to the game as a whole.

 

Ever played Talisman the board game or Magic The Gathering with friends? It's all fun at the start learning the rules or not having proper decks, then it moves to people selecting specific classes and playing them the same was all the time, or decks becoming streamlined land denial or card denial or whatever has worked last week against yours. With MTG it got bad at one stage because one guy traded in Sydney a lot, and had (we found this out later) made specific, MULTIPLE counter-decks to our limited card ones ... did not end well.

 

So yea "we can't have nice things because people" is the answer.

[Nerevar22g]

I know some people who play LOTS of conclave pvp, they always refer to themselves as "elite conclavers" "pvp veterans" whenever we do regular pve missions they go "if you had conclave training like me you would have..."   "thats because im elite pvp'er, my god tier marelok owns all bombards"

and all this bullS#&$, now tell me, how is pvp not ruining the game for everyone else?

[Feyangol]

I know some people who play LOTS of conclave pvp, they always refer to themselves as "elite conclavers" "pvp veterans" whenever we do regular pve missions they go "if you had conclave training like me you would have..."   "thats because im elite pvp'er, my god tier marelok owns all bombards"

and all this bullS#&$, now tell me, how is pvp not ruining the game for everyone else?

/mute 'PLAYERNAME'

 

Problem solved.

I hate players who boast themselves because of some 'achievements' too, but we find this bulls#$& not only in PvP (-> leaderboards).

 

Because when you put humans against other humans any semblance of playing for fun goes out the window, and people play to win using whatever lowest denominator possible to archive it.

 

If one gun or class is discovered to be a one trick pony, then a particular section of the player base will just use that and nothing else, regardless of the fact that winning will have zero consequences to the game as a whole.

 

Ever played Talisman the board game or Magic The Gathering with friends? It's all fun at the start learning the rules or not having proper decks, then it moves to people selecting specific classes and playing them the same was all the time, or decks becoming streamlined land denial or card denial or whatever has worked last week against yours. With MTG it got bad at one stage because one guy traded in Sydney a lot, and had (we found this out later) made specific, MULTIPLE counter-decks to our limited card ones ... did not end well.

 

So yea "we can't have nice things because people" is the answer.

Well, we have this problem in nearly all PvP content in every game, but people play it in other games and they do not hate it like here, so it is not a reason to hate Warframe PvP.

 

It breeds elitism.....which affects the main game. For example people using the cheapest tactics in pvp and then feeling like they are so much better than anyone else.

 

Then people try to find what cheap tactics they can use to get ahead in PVE content(excals mashing 4s without moving).

Then we have series of nerfs that affect pve for everyone, sure pvp-ers won't care but it hurts pve guys who weren't even abusing x,y,z.

 

Just the whole pvp crowd has a different attitude and outlook from normal pve-only players. I don't like pvpers, i'll be honest. I started playing this game for co-op and pve. Not so i can see how pvp-er boating how badass they are at x,y, z and how pve guys are filthy casuals.

The cheapest tactics are used in every part of this game (and not only in PvP) and we have also players who play with fun weapons in PvE and PvP if you did not notice. Why do we have Boltor-only Players in PvE or your Excals with Javelin?

Things are nerfed because PvE players abuse some content. PvP was never the reason for a nerf in PvE, never.

[Dead_Rabbits]

Because in a nutshell it's full of cowards firing their 100% status proc Acrids from across the map. Boring as heck.

Nothing about it is balanced, either.

 

Not to mention this is a PvE-oriented game. Vay Hek should have targeted the Solar Rails, rather than the Relays, honestly.

Would have been a trivial victory on his part.

 

or cowards with valkyrs who ripline to the top of the map and latron snipe in 1v1's.

[Sibernetika]

oh because pvp sucks and that man has 3489567340634 gazzilion damage on his gun, well F*** (yeah I knew that would get censored and trying to find something else gets boring) in the dark sectors people start with their weapons and frame unmodded, hey lets make it a time based thing, mods at this time level gets activated, this mod and get too powerful?, well lets cap the mods to a certian level... there its done fixed, nothing OP anymore

Edited December 29, 2014 by Sibernetika

[(PSN)theelix]

Can you provide an example of when pvp has spread into the main game(pve)?

Dark Sectors. 

'nuff said. 

Should've kept it in conclaves.

[Kartumterek]

oh because pvp sucks and than man has 3489567340634 gazzilion damage on his gun, well F*** (yeah I knew that would get censored and trying to find something else gets boring) in the dark sectors people start with their weapons and frame unmodded, hey lets make it a time based thing, mods at this time level gets activated, this mod and get too powerful?, well lets cap the mods to a certian level... there its done fixed, nothing OP anymore

And wut about invincibility/invulnerability/stealth mechanics that don't need any mods to work? At least before you could unequip the card, now every frame has all abilities. And no, no one is gonna PvP without maxed frames

[Renegade343]

oh because pvp sucks and than man has 3489567340634 gazzilion damage on his gun, well F*** (yeah I knew that would get censored and trying to find something else gets boring) in the dark sectors people start with their weapons and frame unmodded, hey lets make it a time based thing, mods at this time level gets activated, this mod and get too powerful?, well lets cap the mods to a certian level... there its done fixed, nothing OP anymore

Except you still have all the other abilities that would work in PVE, but would be very, very unfair in PVP.

 

Case in point, Limbo's Rift mechanic, then Mesa's Peacemaker, then Ash's Bladestorm, then all the black energy Invisibility/Smoke Screen, then the recent Decoy Switch Teleport to hide behind a wall to kill players and/or keep players out of play (as in, for the full duration of the match).  

[Dartiel]

NPC can't leave the game because players are exploiting cheap tricks against them.

But human players will stop playing the game if most of the time when they play WF, people are using cheap tricks against them.

[Sibernetika]

And wut about invincibility/invulnerability/stealth mechanics that don't need any mods to work? At least before you could unequip the card, now every frame has all abilities. And no, no one is gonna PvP without maxed frames

you can bring a maxed frame but it wont be maxed at the start, mods will be capped so no 1minute god like valkyr, no never seen loki, no 10 gazzilion damage miasma from Saryn.... if you have a problem with that then the problem is you

[Sibernetika]

Except you still have all the other abilities that would work in PVE, but would be very, very unfair in PVP.

 

Case in point, Limbo's Rift mechanic, then Mesa's Peacemaker, then Ash's Bladestorm, then all the black energy Invisibility/Smoke Screen, then the recent Decoy Switch Teleport to hide behind a wall to kill players and/or keep players out of play (as in, for the full duration of the match).  

that teleport looks like a bug, maybe that should get fixed hmmmm

[Jelan]

Why is there so much hate for PvP? Sure I know the game is focused around PvE, but come on. People act like PvP shouldn't even exist in the game. Well, at least on the forums they get so much hate. Just about every suggestion I make or seen about adding a new PvP aspect to the game gets flamed up and shot down.

I haven't played PvP yet; however I will as soon as it's decent. I'm really looking forward to that day.

[Mastikator2]

The thing is, Conclave players tend to have a 'Code of Honour' rule, which makes it relatively nicer and friendlier (and less cheap) to play in. 

There is indeed as much competition of character as there is of skill, but that's not the thing. It's OK if there are imbalanced tactics, as long as there are ways to counter those tactics, which there often, albeit not always are.

Many (myself included) have suggested good ways to balance PvP without taking out the fun or the meta (which is necessary). But the thing is, everytime we do we get barraged by people who just want PvP to go, even if we're not interfering with them. It's a totally one-sided attack.

 

The problem with PvP in Warframe are the people who don't do PvP and are constantly attacking the ones that do. Just imagine if it was something else. Just imagine if everytime someone made a suggestion or even just asked a question about Archwing/Defense Missions/Kubrows/Melee there were several pages of people just totally bashing the entire concept and telling those that use that to stop playing Warframe. That is literally how bad it is and how one-sided it is.

[Nerevar22g]

/mute 'PLAYERNAME'

 

Problem solved.

cant really do that because she is my friend LOL just smile and nod

[Renegade343]

There is indeed as much competition of character as there is of skill, but that's not the thing. It's OK if there are imbalanced tactics, as long as there are ways to counter those tactics, which there often, albeit not always are.

Problem is, with the current Warframe roster, there are very few ways to counter other things in PVP. 

 

I mean, how would you counter pseudo-invincibility for basically little energy cost? Or even being able to hack consoles with no fear of being attacked by almost everything, because you just so happened to be in another plane? 

 

That is to say, I am not against a few imbalanced tactics, but as of right now, it really piles up like crap (to be crude). 

[Kartumterek]

you can bring a maxed frame but it wont be maxed at the start, mods will be capped so no 1minute god like valkyr, no never seen loki, no 10 gazzilion damage miasma from Saryn.... if you have a problem with that then the problem is you

Changing how things work is the main pve to PvP problem. No matter what wondrous idea you come up with doesn't change the fact that tack on afterthought PvP in a hardcore pve game is inherently flawed.

[(PSN)kiddplay13]

oh because pvp sucks and that man has 3489567340634 gazzilion damage on his gun, well F*** (yeah I knew that would get censored and trying to find something else gets boring) in the dark sectors people start with their weapons and frame unmodded, hey lets make it a time based thing, mods at this time level gets activated, this mod and get too powerful?, well lets cap the mods to a certian level... there its done fixed, nothing OP anymore

What...?

[Rehero]

Balance is the least of your concern. PvP needs to be fun. Barebones, the concept seems fun. High-octane action. Players moving at high speeds testing their skill against each other.

 

Personally, I think they should of fleshed out PvP more before making the DS conflict into PvP.

Balance is the greatest of concerns when you apply it to PvP. There is never a pvp centered game where balance isn't at the forefront of every stage of development. Even things one would expect to be irrelevant to balance like models and animations can contribute to balance swings if the animations are off or too hard to read.

 

I feel like the only real way to make pvp work in warframe is to have each frame be stripped of mods and have preset weapon loadouts to choose from at the start of the match. This would likely still need work but it should be leagues better than what it is now.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Rehero

[Arithin]

Pvp is great fun.  Gear based pvp isn't that fun, so I tend to ignore it.  Pvp that affects the pve world is just plain awful.