I Don't Want Excalibur In My T4 Defence Missions Any More

[Nisotak]

XD.

Well there's the lesson.

Wave 20 hits, loot like mad.

Bail at 20

Enjoy your free stuff and a hot beverage while you waited.

 

I don't want "free" stuff.  I want to play the game with other people and enjoy myself while I get it!

 

Sometime late waves players are going down the pod is getting swarmed, somehow we get it cleared away and avoid murdering each other with the defence lasers.  Pod is showing double digit health as the shields regen.  Everybody pulls together as a team and we push through to win.  THAT'S fun for me.

 

Sitting around while somebody else clears the map for 20 waves puts me to sleep.

[armedpoop]

Uhh, no.

[fractal_magnets]

I've played this a lot and this is the first time I've come across an excal using a "rep farming" build to clear the map.

 

I can't think of any other frames that can clear a map like that which I guess is why recruiting is full of "hosting rep farming, need excal".

 

I never took part in "viver" and don't "rep farm" but I was mad when DE made changes to Excal, Trinity and Mag because they are all frames I really enjoy playing.

 

Now I see why they did and I'm starting to think reverting the changes may not have been a good idea.

 

Bro, It's the way that DE integrated the Rep system that made people become like this.

People have created a frame that gives them desired results to make use of what pittance DE has bestowed upon our daily grind.

Don't go slamming the frame because DE botched how the players should be rewarded.

 

Your argument is "All that players do is press 4"

That's 90% of the player base.

You don't have a special argument because your 'trained Tenno eyeball' can see a build and know what it's purpose is. - A purpose you don't agree with.

That's on you and the people you choose to play with.

[Shifted]

Just don't invite excal to your next game. 

 

Bam, everyone's happy.

[Nisotak]

They made the changes because they totally misunderstood their own rep system.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/345102-de-doesnt-understand-viver/

 

After the incident, rep gains were increased by 10x and the cap was implemented to discourage farming.  The initial changes to the frames were wholly unwarranted, DE actually apologized for the rushed decision, realizing that it was a childish way of attacking a symptom and not the problem itself.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/345295-vivergate-vent-radioactive-gas-yn/

 

Don't make the same misjudgement DE did and try to shift the blame and "fixes".

The pod died because your team stopped defending it, not due to the Excal spamming.

 

 

 

EDIT: Stray tags fixed, typos.

 

Thanks for those links.  Great graph!

 

I love this part of the DE post

 

"Our ‘press 4 to win’ ultimates are metered primarily by the supply of energy. Finding an energy loophole means that Homer’s drinking bird can play the game for you. That is not team synergy. That is just broken.

 

This fall, starting with Excalibur, we’ve begun to take a hard look at these ‘X-Ray AOE’ abilities and wonder if we can bring more elements of skill back in. That’s the short answer to ‘why the hell is DE messing with us’. Homer’s drinking bird should not play the game for you."

 

Drinking bird makes for a boring game!

[armedpoop]

"They arent playing the way that I want them too! NERF!!!!111" - OP Translation

 

Dude, really? Stop playing with pugs, play with people that you know. Dont try to punish others because you dont like a playstyle.

Edited January 4, 2015 by armedpoop

[armedpoop]

I don't want "free" stuff.  I want to play the game with other people and enjoy myself while I get it!

 

Sometime late waves players are going down the pod is getting swarmed, somehow we get it cleared away and avoid murdering each other with the defence lasers.  Pod is showing double digit health as the shields regen.  Everybody pulls together as a team and we push through to win.  THAT'S fun for me.

 

Sitting around while somebody else clears the map for 20 waves puts me to sleep.

So dont play with people who are vastly more powerful than you, or are clearing the room like that? IE dont inv excal to your matches?

 

A much less painful fix than RE NERFING an already "meh" frame.

Edited January 4, 2015 by armedpoop

[Nisotak]

"They arent playing the way that I want them too! NERF!!!!111" - OP Translation

 

Dude, really? Stop playing with pugs, play with people that you know. Dont try to punish others because you dont like a playstyle.

 

Everybody that I've met in the game is somebody I've met in a PUG.  I don't want to stop meeting new people. :)

 

I don't consider sitting on an energy restore and pressing 4 until the map is clear a playstyle.

 

I consider it a way to avoid playing the game that ruins the experience for everyone else. (or maybe just me, people like "free" stuff)

 

I want to play the game and stay engaged with the other players.  "rep farming" tactics do not do that for me.

[armedpoop]

Everybody that I've met in the game is somebody I've met in a PUG.  I don't want to stop meeting new people. :)

 

I don't consider sitting on an energy restore and pressing 4 until the map is clear a playstyle.

 

I consider it a way to avoid playing the game that ruins the experience for everyone else. (or maybe just me, people like "free" stuff)

 

I want to play the game and stay engaged with the other players.  "rep farming" tactics do not do that for me.

If you want to keep meeting new people, join a clan. or when you recruit, explicitly state that you dont want excals in your game.

 

This game isnt about "me" only. There are a whole bunch of other people that play this game besides everyone in this thread, youd piss off a lot of people with that nerf

Edited January 4, 2015 by armedpoop

[Rydian]

Thanks for those links.  Great graph!

 

I love this part of the DE post

 

"Our ‘press 4 to win’ ultimates are metered primarily by the supply of energy. Finding an energy loophole means that Homer’s drinking bird can play the game for you. That is not team synergy. That is just broken.

 

This fall, starting with Excalibur, we’ve begun to take a hard look at these ‘X-Ray AOE’ abilities and wonder if we can bring more elements of skill back in. That’s the short answer to ‘why the hell is DE messing with us’. Homer’s drinking bird should not play the game for you."

 

Drinking bird makes for a boring game!

In this situation, like others, it's often not the frame at fault, it's something else behind it.  Motivation, decisions, perceived reward, effort for something, etc.  It is definitely true that spamming 4 can make for a boring game for all involved.

 

But whatever the case may be, I believe that examination to find what the core of the problem is in order to fix it is much better than attacking a symptom or method people use.

[Gale47]

As a Tenno whose preference is Excalibur when it comes to pretty much whichever T4 mission, I can assure you that not all of us are like that.

[AdFinitum]

- So you played a T4 Defence without a defensive frame and failed twice in a row ?

 

- You did not switch to a defensive frame yourself ( I would do that if I landed in a group without a defensive frame ) ?

 

- Then you blame others for your decisions because they dealt lots of damage and you couldnt even do the remaining tiny bit of defense ?

 

- Then you ask for a nerf to frames because they were too weak to achieve the objective ?

 

Rage defeats logic ? Leave the frames alone and think how you can get a better player IMHO. BTW I never experienced something like this - personally I experience most of the time there are too few damage dealers in a Tower defense team so I really dont want the few damage frames in game to be nerfed.

Edited January 4, 2015 by AdFinitum

[armedpoop]

In this situation, like others, it's often not the frame at fault, it's something else behind it.  Motivation, decisions, perceived reward, effort for something, etc.  It is definitely true that spamming 4 can make for a boring game for all involved.

 

But whatever the case may be, I believe that examination to find what the core of the problem is in order to fix it is much better than attacking a symptom or method people use.

This to the max.

 

 

- So you played a T4 Defence without a defensive frame twice in a row ?

 

- You did not switch to a defensive frame yourself ( I would do that if I landed in a group without a defensive frame ) ?

 

- Then you blame others for your decisions because they dealt lots of damage and you couldnt even do the remaining tiny bit of defense ?

 

- Then you ask for a nerf to frames because they were too weak to achieve the objective ?

 

Rage defeats logic ? Leave the frames alone and think how you can get a better player IHO. BTW I never experienced something like this - personally I experience most of the time there are too few damage dealers in a team  so I really dont want the few damage frames in game to be nerfed.

 

Have all my upboats.

Edited January 4, 2015 by armedpoop

[Shafilp]

Other players got bored and distracted because there really wasn't anything to do.

 

 

 

I didn't see the other two players because I guess they were busy trying to gather the cores and resources that were spread out on all corners of the map.

 

Why OP don't blame yourself and other two that not trying to defense the pod/terminal ? and all OP posts not a single word to blame other teammate who run around the whole map to loot all items "DAMN I'm too busy to loot items I can't go to pod and defense that let excal do his job"

 

 

 

Second one had a frost that had double bubbled the pod.  I was running around popping bubbles with my thunderbolto when suddenly it was "mission" failed.

 

Can't really blame the other players.  If you can't even see an enemy to shoot them for 20 waves why bother paying attention?

 

Frost trying to defense the pod with his skill and you gonna kill some enemies with semi-useless explosion mods in end-game name Entropy Spike for bolto or Thunderbolt for bows/attica w/e ..... AHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

you really should stop blame a Press 4 to win Excal and look at yourself with some useless stuff.

 

"OH LOOK I HAVE FKING MINI EXPLOSION IN MY WEAPONS I'LL KILL ALL THING WITH THAT TILL 60 WAVES"

- MIssion failed at 20 GG

- no teamplay-skill, no tactical to play with other, no good stuff to kill enemies WELL We better blame press 4 to win excal "THAT ALL YOU FAULT MAKE US BORING AS S#&$ WE DON'T GIVE A FK ANYMORE LEFT THAT POD ALONE"

Edited January 4, 2015 by Shafilp

[Kalenath]

Today I went on one of my regular Kappa pugs. I picked Oberon that time (I switch frames around for fun), and my recently discovered AkZani of doom. The pug in question left me alone guarding the consoles over half of the time, so I had to now and then use Reckoning because I was routinely getting outnumbered ten-to-one. When it came the time to protect the pod, one of my squadmates told me to "stop the ultimates, really". Knowing full well what was about to happen, I did.

 

The pod went from full to zero in the time it took me to type "as you wish".

 

Moral of the story: you do what you need to do to ensure the mission's success. If that includes using your ultimate more often than you'd perhaps like because your team has no Frost and no CC in a Defense mission, then ult spam it is.

 

Well, they got what they wanted.

 

I do the same thing when I deal with door heroes. I door hero myself and let the pod die.

 

Hey, they got what they wanted! They got rep and experience. Who gives a S#&$ about anyone else. Right? RIGHT?

Edited January 4, 2015 by Kalenath

[Nisotak]

Why OP don't blame yourself and other two that not trying to defense the pod/terminal ? and all OP posts not a single word to blame other teammate who run around the whole map to loot all items "DAMN I'm too busy to loot items I can't go to pod and defense that let excal do his job"

 

 

 

 

Frost trying to defense the pod with his skill and you gonna kill some enemies with semi-useless explosion mods in end-game name Entropy Spike for bolto or Thunderbolt for bows/attica w/e ..... AHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

you really should stop blame a Press 4 to win Excal and look at yourself with some useless stuff.

 

"OH LOOK I HAVE FKING MINI EXPLOSION IN MY WEAPONS I'LL KILL ALL THING WITH THAT TILL 60 WAVES"

- MIssion failed at 20 GG

- no teamplay-skill, no tactical to play with other, no good stuff to kill enemies WELL We better blame press 4 to win excal "THAT ALL YOU FAULT MAKE US BORING AS S#&$ WE DON'T GIVE A FK ANYMORE LEFT THAT POD ALONE"

 

Try an explosive weapon like the bolto with entropy spike or attica with thunderbolt on the "game breaking" nullifiers and get back to me.

 

I'll wait.

[Sibernetika]

can you people that say its not excalibes fault please shut up... I have played with a Mesa that would just stand there killing stuff for 25 waves, I could get up go make coffee and toast come back be exactly where I was standing not a thing happened worth noting. I finished my toast and drank my coffee while running around picking up stuff, not trying to kill anything just picking up stuff.. the moment I has an enemy I was YAY can shoot him... nevermind he just dropped dead in front of me, oh look at that my coffee is finished.... (whats that? yes hunny I'm coming) 2 mins later I'm back still nothing to report in the game.. we lost that as well why? because we did not feel the game get more difficult, we had no time to scale our play style with the enemy getting ever more harder to kill, getting more dangerous, it was suddenly just BAM hello.... so yes having some idiot  that basically takes the game away from us where we play I spy instead of shooting stuff in a game about shooting and killing is rather boring, so yes I'm all for nerfing those where its fitting.

[Nisotak]

- So you played a T4 Defence without a defensive frame and failed twice in a row ?

 

- You did not switch to a defensive frame yourself ( I would do that if I landed in a group without a defensive frame ) ?

 

- Then you blame others for your decisions because they dealt lots of damage and you couldnt even do the remaining tiny bit of defense ?

 

- Then you ask for a nerf to frames because they were too weak to achieve the objective ?

 

Rage defeats logic ? Leave the frames alone and think how you can get a better player IMHO. BTW I never experienced something like this - personally I experience most of the time there are too few damage dealers in a Tower defense team so I really dont want the few damage frames in game to be nerfed.

 

We had a frost on the second mission.

 

First mission was a loki that I saw used disarm the few times he could get close enough to something before the excal pinned it to a wall, a banshee (sound quake is excellent CC), I was on a zephyr and we had the excal.

 

After 20 waves of "Something over there! Oh no, it's dead already." I don't blame anybody for not being on their game any more.

 

I find damage dealers are easy.  People that use their frames abilities to crowd control and buff each other are much harder.

 

I've had the pleasure of playing with Rhinos that actually used roar to buff, charge for positioning and locked threats down with stomp instead of just casting iron skin and holding the trigger on their boltor prime down but they have been rare.

[Mickey33]

To the OP: You play with random people and due to lack of communication you fail miserably. Then you call for a boycott on your tool, just as you blame your gun for shooting but you are who pull the trigger. Excalibur is a tool, people use utilize it. You fail in that sense.

 

The most successful T4 Defense I have is when all four cooperate. I was playing as Mesa, the other is Limbo, Rhino. We fulfill our role so it was a great fun. We talked, adjusted our setup. That is how you play! 

 

[(PSN)theelix]

Had two today that decided the best way to play was to sit next to pod on top of an energy restore and spam Radial Javelin.

 

Other players got bored and distracted because there really wasn't anything to do.

 

After wave 20 the pod was overrun and instant killed because nobody was paying attention any more.

 

Twice, in a row.  With different groups.

 

Time to put line of sight restrictions back on Radial Javelin (and my most played warframe is Excalibur).

 

The "rep farmers" can figure out some other way to avoid playing the game.

So, instead of scolding the people who weren't paying attention which I'm assuming was also yourself because you must've said nothing, you're saying you don't want Excaliburs in your lobby anymore? 

 

Also, you shouldn't blame the Excal for spamming Javelin for 20 waves, you should smack him over the head for not radial blinding the group to keep them pinned when it was being overrun. 

 

You're blaming ALL the WRONG things. 

Edited January 4, 2015 by (PS4)theelix

[Sibernetika]

and I see excaliburs white knights is all over the place hoping he does not get nerfed... Time for me to vacate before I earn myself more warning points

[armedpoop]

and I see excaliburs white knights is all over the place hoping he does not get nerfed... Time for me to vacate before I earn myself more warning points

Lol I dont think you can white knight one of the lamest frames in the game (objectively)

[Nisotak]

So, instead of scolding the people who weren't paying attention which I'm assuming was also yourself because you must've said nothing, you're saying you don't want Excaliburs in your lobby anymore? 

 

I don't want any player who thinks that sitting on an energy restore and spamming an ability over and over again to the point that nobody else can even shoot anything for 20 waves until they get bored ruining my enjoyment of the game.

 

Even if we extract at 20 and get the "free" loot, I didn't have fun and I don't think the other 2 players did either.  Maybe "4444444" did or maybe it was just homers drinking bird at work....

[armedpoop]

I don't want any player who thinks that sitting on an energy restore and spamming an ability over and over again to the point that nobody else can even shoot anything for 20 waves until they get bored ruining my enjoyment of the game.

 

Even if we extract at 20 and get the "free" loot, I didn't have fun and I don't think the other 2 players did either.  Maybe "4444444" did or maybe it was just homers drinking bird at work....

Literally your entire issue is solved by not playing with pugs

[AdFinitum]

This game requires skill.

 

- Communication

Talk to your team how you are going to play together and if the current team setup is good.

 

- Knowledge

You need to learn that a Mesa in her ultimate or an Excalibur doing his job by applying aoe kind of damage cannot target specific enemies. Those did their job. It was your job to not go make a coffee but instead deal with the remaining enemies.

 

- Experience

Knowing when ( and which ) enemies will kill the pod within a split second so you might want to put your coffeee away and take care of them. That the damage dealer frames kill whole waves at the beginnning and you are bored cause you have nothing to do doesnt mean you can now AFK until wave 500.

 

After all you have written the only one who did something horribly wrong is you. The damage dealers kill everything the first few waves. If that stage of a mission bores you I cant help you ( and a nerf wont help you either because only 5 waves later you will seriously need their damaging abilities ). An endless mission is not the same all the time. Not all of the 40-60 minutes of playtime can be made purely so you can enjoy it. I am sure your teammates werent too fond of a player like you who thought he wouldnt have to do anything at all in the game because the first few waves were easy.

 

BTW : I lost 2 Defenses recently as well due to looting. Something like this happens. We didnt have any Excaliburs or Mesas in team. Actually it was my Banshee who made teammates think the pod would be safe for ever. But a single Heavy gunner will kill the pod within a split second and if everyone was looting then thats just an experience to learn from and not to blame teammates. I learned that I will stay at the pod until every dangerous enemy has been defeated. Problem solved.

Edited January 4, 2015 by AdFinitum