Progression 2.0, A Complete Rework Of The Presentation Of Warframe (Update 1/27)

[DrBorris]

 

Alright, since no one else seems to be brave enough to read through it all.

 

1. Preventing access to further missions without owning strong enough weapon seems like a good mechanic. But my concern is, that when players reach the level of Boltor Prime and above, they will be forced to grind for them. Grind locking missions is not good, as not all players have the stomach to farm the Void for prime gear. Same story with clan tech, forcing solo players to look for clan. Strongest primary on the market is Soma and it can only carry player so far.

But I assume that this problem might be fixed with upgrading a weapon. So instead of grinding for Boltor, player could simply

recraft trusty Karak into Karak 2.0 and proceed. I assume all max level weapons will be sidegrades?

There is still a quality of life problem, as players will have to rank up / re-forma new weapons to complete each mission. Depending on how often weapon requirements will change, this can become quite tedious. But this is probably a long-term campaign, so it's not too crucial.

 

2. Does this system account for mod levels? They are a big part of the power creep. Player with Mk1 stuff, but maxed Serration will have easy time compared to the player with same equipment, but no mods. (and yes, I heard in latest devstream that Serration is not eternal, but we are theorycrafting for current system)

 

3. I'm assuming that taxi'ing players with different power levels is out of the question?

 

1. What do you mean with grinding for weapons once you hit that max rank? If that is about having to start at the bottom and work yourself up, well, doesn't that make more sense as a Mastery System anyway? Yeah, you have to grind certain weapons in an order (like Karak, Karak 2.0, Karak 3.0), but that is you further mastering the play style of that weapon. The focus on MR should be reduced, as I threw in there, MR 8 is all you would need for even the most powerful weapons, it is the Progression Rank that locks them away for the most part. 

 

For the Karak versus Boltor Prime thing, Karak=/=Boltor Prime. I think I gave Boltor Prime a Progression rank of 42 (forgive me if I am wrong). A Karak that has been upgraded to the point of a Progression Rank of 42 would still be different from Boltor Prime. Karak has a slower fire rate and is hit-scan. Boltor Prime has a pretty high fire rate and has flight time. Boltor Prime would probably have a bit higher DPS, but that is to counteract its ammo efficiency issues and difficulty of use at range. It would come down to what you liked as your play style. And for poor Boltor, it does have some differences between its prime brother besides damage (slower flight time and fire rate). So a Boltor with a Progression Rnak of 42 would maybe be the more spray version. Possibly give it higher recoil, the higher flight time, but then give it some more damage to compensate.

 

The beauty of this progression system is that it leaves time between quests. As you go on through the timeline, things get harder. You face harder enemies, but are also granted with better weapons. However, you still have to rank up those new weapons that are necessary to complete the quest along with ranking up your mods. Warframe is a long term game, it is not just running through the campaign and calling it quits. The campaign works with the star map. You have to do random missions in between quests in order to prepare yourself. (maybe I should add this to the OP)

 

2. That may be interesting to lock how high you can rank mods to your Progression Rank, but that may be too much. Maybe having Conclave restrictions may help with those who just go out and buy the max ranked mods (this still needs thinking)

 

3. Giving out Taxis may have to end with this. People asking for taxis to boss fights is pathetic as it is, and i feel no guilt in preventing players in "cheating" their way through Warframes. As for taxis to Alerts... I am not sure. It could add value to progressing, but giving taxis to alerts is actually an interesting dynamic. Maybe have taxis only be allowed to alert nodes or have alerts be completely separate from the star chart (hmm, that second option may be interesting).

 

 

Thanks for reading through it.

[-DM-Xprometeo]

Mmmm, very interesting. It is almost do a new game, must carry thousands of hours of programming that.

[geninrising]

 

For the Karak versus Boltor Prime thing, Karak=/=Boltor Prime. I think I gave Boltor Prime a Progression rank of 42 (forgive me if I am wrong). A Karak that has been upgraded to the point of a Progression Rank of 42 would still be different from Boltor Prime. Karak has a slower fire rate and is hit-scan. Boltor Prime has a pretty high fire rate and has flight time. Boltor Prime would probably have a bit higher DPS, but that is to counteract its ammo efficiency issues and difficulty of use at range. It would come down to what you liked as your play style. And for poor Boltor, it does have some differences between its prime brother besides damage (slower flight time and fire rate). So a Boltor with a Progression Rnak of 42 would maybe be the more spray version. Possibly give it higher recoil, the higher flight time, but then give it some more damage to compensate.

The prime variants in my suggestion  statistically are going to be better than their un-primed variants due to the fact that statistically they are already better than their counterparts at BASE.

 

Also another reason I suggested the alternate idea for re-crafting the weapons was to allow the player to choose various statistical traits that they wanted to make more viable or strengths they wanted to reinforce.

As far as the recoil goes maybe have it set to X amount of fire rate=X amount of recoil per second of continuous fire? We could also add spread to it if fire rate exceeded a certain amount beyond base amounts.

 

 

The beauty of this progression system is that it leaves time between quests. As you go on through the timeline, things get harder. You face harder enemies, but are also granted with better weapons. However, you still have to rank up those new weapons that are necessary to complete the quest along with ranking up your mods. Warframe is a long term game, it is not just running through the campaign and calling it quits. The campaign works with the star map. You have to do random missions in between quests in order to prepare yourself. (maybe I should add this to the OP)

I would definitely add it to OP as areas designated to prepare for future conflicts. Prior to every new undertaking it makes sense that the Tenno would need to take some time to restock and upgrade weapons to tackle stronger enemies.

 

2. That may be interesting to lock how high you can rank mods to your Progression Rank, but that may be too much. Maybe having Conclave restrictions may help with those who just go out and buy the max ranked mods (this still needs thinking)

This would feel directly counter to a player being able to acquire them in that area though. At least that's how I would see it, and as another negative factor, even if the player has access to the proper mod/frame/weapons they may be discriminated against if they seed void runs or OD runs.

 

3. Giving out Taxis may have to end with this. People asking for taxis to boss fights is pathetic as it is, and i feel no guilt in preventing players in "cheating" their way through Warframes. As for taxis to Alerts... I am not sure. It could add value to progressing, but giving taxis to alerts is actually an interesting dynamic. Maybe have taxis only be allowed to alert nodes or have alerts be completely separate from the star chart (hmm, that second option may be interesting).

I would definitely suggest allowing taxis only to content that you meet the progression rank for, otherwise that pulls players out of their depth and places them in content they cannot hope to cope with. Additionally by allowing taxis it breaks the flow of progression we are trying to create, thus negating a reason to play various content rather than just hop over to the new honeypot when it is released by DE. I could see moving all of the alerts to the first 3 planets you unlock at the start of the game, that way new players would not be prohibited from being taxi'd as they have access to those places thanks to their progression rank.

 

Thanks for reading through it.

[Sorez]

I completely support this. The chart makes it look like such a flowing story (and even more with the possible Tyl Regor rework soon, maybe with an event?)

 

I love it! +1

[yuio678]

I must admit I was intimidated by your large wall of text, but when I read your little diagram my inner desire for Warframe's Lore and bringing structure to a currently jumbled story chunk I proceeded to read through EVERYTHING.

 

Took a while but I must say, I fully appreciate you goal of not only offer suggestions for the Developers, but also provide your reasoning behind each and every single one with inter-connecting effects on other aspects of the game.

 

I just love how you pieced the quests together since it is a great way to provide progression to players of different tastes. Mainly of the 2 main camps of gamers with the "RPG mechanic" mindset of enjoying the progression of power and abilities in an RPG lvl up fashion and the "Main Quest line lore fan" mindset who grew up playing games for their overarching stories on a structured path with side branches (aka sidequests).

I particular like your take on the whole tiering of weapons behind Progression Ranks, locking away weapons not based on how much stuff you can grind as Mastery Fodder, but based on the difficulty of this overall story campaign not much different from single player RPGs.

 

However I must express that this tiering idea of yours sounds very good on theory, I'm very confident that you understand how potentially messy that would be. Your examples of Boltor Prime/Soma vs the MK-1 weapons are very obvious in terms of their stats so setting them as a temporary bar for low and high progression rank is straight forward. But the seas become more murky when basing the Tiers on stuff like base damage can't completely define their tier as I'm sure you are aware of super strong weapons that can only display their power in specific scenarios (e.g. Bows for single target or mobs in a line, Torid/Penta for AoE splash damage). So basically what could be mid tier would always be debatable and in constant contention. But still, ordering the weapons by tiers is still a better direction than just going with what we have, a nebulous realm of weapons being constantly pushed out by DE that either become the new OP toy, and underpowered and weak thing that gets stacked on our piles of yet more Mastery Fodder or worse...just lying in the middle of mediocrity and just falls by the wayside to the OPness effect.

 

Quick comment, your proposed idea of Underclocking and Overclocking is just exciting. Of course as considerate as you were by limiting the potential craziness of weapon leveling in an instant with the exponential affinity gain when Underclocked, it can't really exceed what is currently gained upon purchasing an affinity booster. If it renders it redundant then it's not a fun idea for DE financially. So obviously some tweaking needs to be done to tweak that.

 

Overall, I am very happy to see more people are like me who yearn for Warframe to "polish" up it's story in addition to incorporating it in an overarching progression systems that benefits the longevity of this game in terms of balanced power progression but most importantly, keep players hooked on a rather unique FreeToPlay game that holds the potential to become something quite magical

:D

 

It is a shame this tread is kinda bare in terms of responses, but typically any forum goer that gets confronted by a wall of text with almost mini essay levels of content hidden in spoilers would basically crumble. So don't feel too bad, as long as hopefully some DE guys see this then fingers crossed they take some of your suggestions as well as other like minded posts on the forum to heart :)

[DrBorris]

The prime variants in my suggestion  statistically are going to be better than their un-primed variants due to the fact that statistically they are already better than their counterparts at BASE.

I may be slightly misunderstanding what you are saying, but this also gives an opportunity to clarify the Prime versus Vanilla thing. A newly crafted Prime weapon and a newly crafted vanilla version should be vastly separated by power. Primes should be status (not as in the proc) weapons. However, if you have a Prime weapon and its vanilla counterpart re-crafted/upgraded to an equivalent Progression Rank, their power will be equal. The weapons themselves should not be equal however. For example, Boltor Prime has a higher fire rate, tighter spread, and faster projectile speed. This gives it a mechanical advantage over an equally ranked Boltor. Thus, in order to compensate, the Boltor may have a higher DPS. Probably the best example of different variants of weapons at the same tier is the Latron series. None of the Latrons are mechanically equal. The Prime has a hefty status chance and increased crit. The Wraith version has a higher fire rate, higher crit, and is innately silent. And in the end... Latron Prime and Latron Wraith are perfectly balanced between each other. That is the model for equaly ranked variants of different weapons, they each fit different niches. They also each mechanically differ from Latron, which would have a fire rate in between the two and be more focused on base damage then crit if it was of an equal Progression Rank. Primes do have the innate advantage of being strong right out of the gate, not requiring re-crafting/upgrading and re-ranking in order to achieve their power (but remember, they still are locked away).

 

 

I must admit I was intimidated by your large wall of text,

Yeah... I went through a couple drafts of this, each shorter than the last, but at some point you have to cut out material (and i did not want to do that). I wanted to do something that really had some merit. Something that could be given feedback on and give DE new ideas on what they can do (All I hope is that this post inspires a new idea at DE, I understand that this exact thing will most likely never happen). It kind of sucks that the more feedback you give, the less feedback you get. For the Forums community priding themselves in building Warframe, they sure don't like to read. So... thank you for reading this. 

 

 

However I must express that this tiering idea of yours sounds very good on theory, I'm very confident that you understand how potentially messy that would be. Your examples of Boltor Prime/Soma vs the MK-1 weapons are very obvious in terms of their stats so setting them as a temporary bar for low and high progression rank is straight forward. But the seas become more murky when basing the Tiers on stuff like base damage can't completely define their tier as I'm sure you are aware of super strong weapons that can only display their power in specific scenarios (e.g. Bows for single target or mobs in a line, Torid/Penta for AoE splash damage). So basically what could be mid tier would always be debatable and in constant contention. But still, ordering the weapons by tiers is still a better direction than just going with what we have, a nebulous realm of weapons being constantly pushed out by DE that either become the new OP toy, and underpowered and weak thing that gets stacked on our piles of yet more Mastery Fodder or worse...just lying in the middle of mediocrity and just falls by the wayside to the OPness effect.

Yup... probably the hardest part for DE would be to come up with the tier of each of their weapons. The creativity they use in new mechanics and vastly different guns will make it a pain in the arse to accurately tier them. There is DPS, accuracy, flight time, charging, limited range, AoE, punch through, zoom, status, ease of use, ammo economy, and probably a bunch of other things that must be taken into account when tier-ing weapons (hmm, maybe it could be a community effort?). Then when DE releases a new weapon, they have to decide where to put the base version. Do you allow new players to play with this new toy, but make veterans grind their way through re-crafting/upgrading to get it up to their level? Or do you make its base powerful but lock it away form new players? And sorry... the happy medium is not that happy.

 

 

Quick comment, your proposed idea of Underclocking and Overclocking is just exciting. Of course as considerate as you were by limiting the potential craziness of weapon leveling in an instant with the exponential affinity gain when Underclocked, it can't really exceed what is currently gained upon purchasing an affinity booster. If it renders it redundant then it's not a fun idea for DE financially. So obviously some tweaking needs to be done to tweak that.

Affinity gain is exponentially decreased for overclocking, but only linearly increased for under-clocking. That linear increase is only in order that low level mobs are giving you the same reward as high level mobs if you are ranking up your weapon. If you want to rank up on Earth but are using a Boltor Prime, go for it. Under-clock your weapon (Would give new Progression Rank estimates) down to a Progression Rank that is balanced for Earth. On a side note, I would really recommend that DE rework affinity. The reward for high level enemies versus low level enemies should be much higher than it is now.

 

 

 

 

 

Something Geninrising said triggered an alternative to the re-crafting system. And it is based on any Veteran of Warframe’s dream… Focus. As of now, I am pretty sure DE is even clueless on how to do, Focus. They spent a lot of their good ideas on Syndicates, and are left with bare bones for Focus.

 

So… what happens when you mash Overclocking and Focus together? Rather than constantly having to recraft your weapons, what if you gained to right to Overclock only through Focus experience gain (basically affinity, but the affinity system is broken so I will not say that word). As you gain experience with your weapon (beyond ranking it to 30), you will slowly be given the right to Overclock your weapon with no negative side effects. As you Overclock your weapon, its Progression Rank increases with it. Rather than their being good and bad, EVERYTHING IS EQUAL (communism?). Given that you have met Progression Rank requirements and have gained the necessary Focus Experience with the Weapon, you can make your Mk-1 Braton equivalent to a Boltor Prime (hmm, maybe mk-1s should be omitted from this). Now for the balance. Then make Affinity gain be effected by Conclave (which is effected by Progression Rank) so that you gain the exact amount of affinity on Earth as Pluto, given that your weapon is Overclocked/Under-clocked to fit the enemy level ranges.

 

Uhhhhhhhh…. I am actually having trouble finding the holes in that. It may be difficult to implement, but Overclocking, Under-clocking, and Focus all mashed up into one system could eternally fix weapon balance in Warframe. 

Edited January 19, 2015 by DrBorris

[geninrising]

So… what happens when you mash Overclocking and Focus together? Rather than constantly having to recraft your weapons, what if you gained to right to Overclock only through Focus experience gain (basically affinity, but the affinity system is broken so I will not say that word). As you gain experience with your weapon (beyond ranking it to 30), you will slowly be given the right to Overclock your weapon with no negative side effects. As you Overclock your weapon, its Progression Rank increases with it. Rather than their being good and bad, EVERYTHING IS EQUAL (communism?). Given that you have met Progression Rank requirements and have gained the necessary Focus Experience with the Weapon, you can make your Mk-1 Braton equivalent to a Boltor Prime (hmm, maybe mk-1s should be omitted from this). Now for the balance. Then make Affinity gain be effected by Conclave (which is effected by Progression Rank) so that you gain the exact amount of affinity on Earth as Pluto, given that your weapon is Overclocked/Under-clocked to fit the enemy level ranges.

 

Uhhhhhhhh…. I am actually having trouble finding the holes in that. It may be difficult to implement, but Overclocking, Under-clocking, and Focus all mashed up into one system could eternally fix weapon balance in Warframe. 

That's honestly looking good, however the re-crafting thing I put forward feels like it would breath new life into just about everything in game. It allows for expansive customization in specific places you choose to put work into. Currently the mod system feels like it falls short on this promise due to the fact that certain weapons no matter how hard you try you just cannot get to be crit/status weapons. Nor can you get some to be straight damage monsters.

 

Heck some weapons I would just like to see massive fire rate buffs on. The list goes on and on and I was just trying to see a way to get us through all that murky water.

 

Oh in addition I realized how DE could produced a tiered weapon system.

Implement some system in office that performs calculations on raw DPS and Burst DPS like warframebuilder.com.

Use a certain defining amount of dps per tier. Easy peasy.

[yuio678]

That's honestly looking good, however the re-crafting thing I put forward feels like it would breath new life into just about everything in game. It allows for expansive customization in specific places you choose to put work into. Currently the mod system feels like it falls short on this promise due to the fact that certain weapons no matter how hard you try you just cannot get to be crit/status weapons. Nor can you get some to be straight damage monsters.

 

Heck some weapons I would just like to see massive fire rate buffs on. The list goes on and on and I was just trying to see a way to get us through all that murky water.

 

Oh in addition I realized how DE could produced a tiered weapon system.

Implement some system in office that performs calculations on raw DPS and Burst DPS like warframebuilder.com.

Use a certain defining amount of dps per tier. Easy peasy.

To be honest geninrising, your suggestion for the re-crafting system that you previously mentioned in this thread sounds really similar to the awesome "Blacksmith" system in the iOS game, Infinity Blade 3. Both of your concept and in Infinity Blade 3 involved giving players the opportunity (with material and ingame monetary costs) to upgrade its stats slightly until it can also match similar levels of performance with supposed high tier weapons with better stats from its release. This system I also agree would benefit Warframe since it allows one to theoretically make something like the Braton match over time similar performance to something like Boltor Prime.

Video Example: 

 

Another thing Warframe could be inspired by this game is that we could retain the tiering system that DrBorris mentioned by dictating weapon tier via this "Re-Crafting System" with costs. So maybe with a low Tier weapon the materials and credits needed to perform a Re-Craft upgrade would start low and slowly increase in amount or even rarity (e.g. 100 alloy plates slowly gets replace with 1 neurode, 1000 credits slowly builds up to 1 million credits for last upgrade equivalent to the top Progression Rank). While high tier stuff like the almighty Boltor prime would already start with these high costs even for its first Re-Craft upgrade step.

Edited January 20, 2015 by yuio678

[VDeorsum]

All this....is simply...superb! +1

[VoidPunch]

I feel that the Gradivus Dilemma should happen a lot sooner. And the Infested should happen later in the story. Lephantis should happen after Alad V.

 

The ancient infested should happen after the Gradivus Dilemma, after that is where you should be exposed to the ancient infested. This way Alad V is still pursuing Warframes during the Dilemma, without knowing about the potential of infested biology. However after he "loses" that is when he goes crazy and his part goes quiet for a bit...

 

Then the ancient infested get out into the solar system and now that they are everywhere Alad V has took note of it, this is where he should take interest. After doing an infested storyline and fighting Lephantis, Alad V turns up all infested and shows off his new infested. This way you already a good experience with all 3 factions (Grineer, Corpus, and "ancient" Infested) since his subfaction "mutalist" Infested are a mix of all of the previous 3.

[DrBorris]

I feel that the Gradivus Dilemma should happen a lot sooner. And the Infested should happen later in the story. Lephantis should happen after Alad V.

 

The ancient infested should happen after the Gradivus Dilemma, after that is where you should be exposed to the ancient infested. This way Alad V is still pursuing Warframes during the Dilemma, without knowing about the potential of infested biology. However after he "loses" that is when he goes crazy and his part goes quiet for a bit...

 

Then the ancient infested get out into the solar system and now that they are everywhere Alad V has took note of it, this is where he should take interest. After doing an infested storyline and fighting Lephantis, Alad V turns up all infested and shows off his new infested. This way you already a good experience with all 3 factions (Grineer, Corpus, and "ancient" Infested) since his subfaction "mutalist" Infested are a mix of all of the previous 3.

 

The Gradivus Dilemma does happen very soon in the grand scheme of things. The quests that lead up prior to it are pretty much an extended tutorial. The Archwing stuff must be prioritized (due to reasons discussed in the Archwing sections), and the progression of gaining Archwings is an opportunity to teach a new player. The story only really begins at Sling Stone. 

 

As for the Infested, I can see where you are coming from with that. The reason that I think that Infested should be introduced early on is so that the player gains a familiarity with the faction before Alad V comes in. However, having Once Awake be pushed forward (between Asteroid Belt and Sling Stone maybe?) could effect the lore in a more positive manor also. rather than it seeming like three factions against each other, it is the Grineer and Corpus, then this side faction of the Infestation that are wreaking havoc. The problem with this is that it puts the introduction of the ancient infested very close to the introduction of the Mutalist infested. Rather than giving the ancient Infested their own role, it would be more of "oh there are Ancient infested, but then they became Mutalist" rather than the ancient infested being their own faction. There could be a really interesting debate on whether it would be better to put the Once Awake towards the middle or the beginning, but I have a bad feeling that it will come down to "everyone likes killing zombies, so we need to bring new players in with zombies." Good point though.

[VoidPunch]

The Gradivus Dilemma does happen very soon in the grand scheme of things. The quests that lead up prior to it are pretty much an extended tutorial. The Archwing stuff must be prioritized (due to reasons discussed in the Archwing sections), and the progression of gaining Archwings is an opportunity to teach a new player. The story only really begins at Sling Stone. 

 

As for the Infested, I can see where you are coming from with that. The reason that I think that Infested should be introduced early on is so that the player gains a familiarity with the faction before Alad V comes in. However, having Once Awake be pushed forward (between Asteroid Belt and Sling Stone maybe?) could effect the lore in a more positive manor also. rather than it seeming like three factions against each other, it is the Grineer and Corpus, then this side faction of the Infestation that are wreaking havoc. The problem with this is that it puts the introduction of the ancient infested very close to the introduction of the Mutalist infested. Rather than giving the ancient Infested their own role, it would be more of "oh there are Ancient infested, but then they became Mutalist" rather than the ancient infested being their own faction. There could be a really interesting debate on whether it would be better to put the Once Awake towards the middle or the beginning, but I have a bad feeling that it will come down to "everyone likes killing zombies, so we need to bring new players in with zombies." Good point though.

You bring up very good points, I have to agree with your counter argument if you would call it that. I just feel as though the Corpus should have a bigger role in the beginning as they do now. I understand for story sake how this progression was laid out but I feel like Infested units are much more challenging to new players then Corpus would be after they have been reworked. I feel like the Corpus are a more familiar force to fight against for newer players and so the bulk of the Corpus should be earlier at least have a more extended introduction for them. Then have the infested introduced after establishing a firm foundation for the player on the game's two major fighting factions. This is also how the game used to introduce factions back in early beta and I believe it is like that for a reason. However I completely agree with the ancient infested and mutalist infested factions being introduced a ways apart to get familiar with each before revealing a mixture faction. 

[geninrising]

AAAH btw I found information regarding the focus system via dataminers that will be implemented sooner or later . Unfortunately the focus system will essentially just provide different "lenses" that cause various special effects based on their given class.

Classes are as follows:

1. Warrior-KillerFocusSource, MeleeBuffGreatSwords, MeleeBuffHammersAndAxes, MeleeBuffSwords, NpcAimReduction, PlayerThreatIncrease, WeaponAimBonusPistol, WeaponAimBonusRifle and WeaponAimBonusShotgun

2. Ward-DamageHealsTeam, EnemyArmorReduction, EnemyShieldReduction, HealthIncreaseLink, InstantReviver, RegenWeakerTeammates and ReviveTeamSentinels 

3. Tactician-AlliesOnFire

4. Guardian-ArmorIncrease, HealReceiveBuff, InstantMaxEnergy, InstantMaxHealth, InstantMaxShield and InstantMaxStamina

5. Power- EnergyEfficiency for the "Void"

 

Don't get me wrong, we can only speculate where these things are going but the titles of each seem to pretty clearly define their specific purposes.

 

Kinda sucks that focus appears to be getting a lackluster implementation that may in fact prevent you from making more that one customization choice.

 

However we shall have to see, but given the fact that some of these "lenses" appear to be similar indicates to me that they will be an either or choice and not any kind of deep developmental system like we as players had hoped.

Edited January 21, 2015 by geninrising

[oinkah]

So after reading whole thread again for no apparent reason, I decided to post all my opinions.

 

Things that I liked:

Organized campaign system

Warframe needs this, even if it comes at a price of permadeath of our beloved villains.

 

Weapon recrafting

Great way to bring new life into weaker weapons and finally getting rid of the dreaded term "mastery fodder".

 

Mastery level not tied to amount of maxed weapons (or at least not entirely)

Completionism should not be mandatory.

 

Missions requiring specific power level

Be it by weapon rank, or modified conclave points, power moderation is a must.

Also, what about solo vs co-op? Missions are easier with multiple teammates.

 

Prime and non-prime gear equalized

Either equal, or a sidegrade, I agree that primes should not make regular equipment obsolete. It would certainly be less aggravating to potato weapons that are about to be primed.

[looks at Vectis]

 

Proper weapon tiering (at least initially)

But really, anything is better than what we have now.

 

Separate Syndicate affinity

You really should expand on that, daily rep farms are getting pretty tedious.

 

On the fence:

Overclocking and underclocking

Honestly I think it might be a bit too complicated to balance everything out.

It would also be difficult to guess exact damage output required for the mission. But overall I see it as a convenience feature to quickly nerf weapon for easy planets without having to tinker with the mods.

Another thing that interests me, is determining whether or not underclocking is worth it, when going for rewards. Affinity gained per enemy might increase, but rate of killing will decrease. Especially true for semi-auto weapons that usually rely on one-hit-kill, but may be unable to do so after underclocking. Affinity gain might need exponential increase after all. Will be a real headache to find good ratio.

 

Also, how to apply over/under clocking? Does overclocking need to be earned? If so, does underclocking reset overclocking?

If it is indeed a convenience feature, then I imagine it as a simple slider on the weapon, easily changeable on a whim. Player could set it to lowest and go farm Apolodorus. Then for the next mission crank it to max and go straight to T4.

 

 

Focus-like permanent overclocking

Again, this will be hell for devs to balance.

This system seems to be more flexible than full recrafting. Increasing the cap for maxed stats is easier than releasing whole bunch of new blueprints for every single gun, therefore old weapons will not be forgotten and abandoned for long periods of time.

 

Does permanent overclocking increase all stats in a fixed manner or is it possible to choose individual stats? If stats for buffing are manually selected, is the process of leveling reversable? Would really suck to upgrade Braton for the fifth time and dump points into wrong stat (either by mistake, or out of curiosity) and thus, ruin all that hard work by preventing it from reaching maximum possible damage.

Also, I think that free choice of stats will blur the differences between some weapons, robbing them of their identity.

Although, it's intriguing to see how this system will affect Mk1 weapons. Having the largest amount of possible upgrades,  they could be morphed to be similar to any other weapon from their category. Or given some really bizarre stats. Which is exactly what Mk1 weapons are supposed to do - offer as much flexibility as possible, compared to more rigid and specialized advanced guns. Ok, props for this idea. I think I would own several Mk1's under this system, all modded with completely different stats, just for the hell of it.

If stats are not manually selectable, then it's not too different from complete recrafting from OP. Weapon uniqueness can be retained and expanded upon. Also, utility buffs are possible, without feeling guilty afterwards for not dumping everything into damage upgrade. And yeah, no Mk1 shenanigans...

 

Is permanent overclocking based on overclocking from original post? (which I imagine is easy to apply and remove). Probably not, as this continuous permanent overclocking seems to demand hard work to increase. Is overclock-o-meter separate from weapon level? If not, then is player expected to reach 30 with overclock at all times? Isn't it possible to reach 29 in underclocked mode, then switch to overclocking and finish the job? Or does changing overclocking reverse weapon level?

 

Another thing that bothers me with this idea (and regular over/under clocking to some degree), is that implementing it means admitting that mod system has failed in providing booth progression and customization. Basically, it's a return to skill trees.

 

 

Splitting infested

From both lore and progression perspective it makes sense to split infested into pre and post Mutalist. Pre Mutalist infested were easier and less aggravating to fight against, better suited for new players.

Also Grineer are already split into 3 subfactions: Arid, Frontier and regular. But they don't have any exclusive units.

It would also be interesting to see how both infested species would interact with each other. While they are from the same faction and are made from the same Lancers and Crewmen, they are based on different strains of virus. Would they try to infest each other like Tyranids from Warhammer? 

 

Things I didn't like:

Leveling weapons by using them

This was a thing that initially ticked me off. And I think that I still don't fully agree with it.

I can certainly see the appeal of it. Leveling weapon manually and watching it grow (especially if it's a low tier weapon). With active usage player's experience and skill with the weapon would grow alongside it's power level. Maybe even some sort of sentimental attachment would be formed.

 

But simply leveling things is a very dull process. Even without mastery fodder it would still be boring to max out weapons (multipled by forma and potential recraftings).

That's why affinity farms exist - to bypass this dull leveling. Simply removing this shortcut will not improve leveling experience and will not make people happy.

Of course, upgrading favourite weapon of choice is less depressing than some random fodder that will be thrown out as soon as it reaches 30, but the process is the same. Many people desire to see their weapon maxed ASAP and going through intermediate stages is a chore to them.

Basically, I'm trying to say that this change should be shipped with complete rework of affinity. Some diferent methods of gathering it are needed. Perhaps rewarding skillful and overly complex kills like Bulletstorm.

 

Also, how does this affect affinity from teammates? If weapon can be leveled only with it's own killing power, then kill-stealing ultimate spammers will be even more hated and marginalized. If weapons can be charged with teammate affinity, them new farming techniques would emerge. (two spammy Excaliburs standing on the opposite sides of the map, leveling each other's weapons). Quite the conundrum.

 

 

No taxi'ing

While I understand that this is done to keep the coherent story, but it also means that getting a desired frame is impossible without progressing through campaign. After all - that is the reason why newbies ask for taxis to bosses. And considering that you mentioned Boltor Prime level gun requiring quests - that is a long way to go without potentially favourite frame.

In OP there is a reasoning about particular order of frames to be acquired. But some people see them as characters and not tools. They simply like the theme/powers/looks/name and don't care about stats or difficulty of use. And besides, all frames should be equal. (at least in theory)

 

 

Mandatory Archwing

I feel that it's just too different from the main game. It's not what many people signed up for, so it's only natural that not everyone likes it. Forcing it might be a mistake.

 

So there you have it. My very own wall of text.

Edited January 21, 2015 by oinkah

[Cosmedian]

It's not perfect, but it would be certainly a good base to work with and would help in different aspects. (Just my opinion)

[(PSN)umaro3]

I suggest the mutalist infested to be added first and ancients late honestly it would much more sense as the ancient ones are rarer and also ancient enemies

[geninrising]

 

So after reading whole thread again for no apparent reason, I decided to post all my opinions.

 

Things that I liked:

Organized campaign system

Warframe needs this, even if it comes at a price of permadeath of our beloved villains.

 

Weapon recrafting

Great way to bring new life into weaker weapons and finally getting rid of the dreaded term "mastery fodder".

 

Mastery level not tied to amount of maxed weapons (or at least not entirely)

Completionism should not be mandatory.

 

Missions requiring specific power level

Be it by weapon rank, or modified conclave points, power moderation is a must.

Also, what about solo vs co-op? Missions are easier with multiple teammates.

 

Prime and non-prime gear equalized

Either equal, or a sidegrade, I agree that primes should not make regular equipment obsolete. It would certainly be less aggravating to potato weapons that are about to be primed.

[looks at Vectis]

 

Proper weapon tiering (at least initially)

But really, anything is better than what we have now.

 

Separate Syndicate affinity

You really should expand on that, daily rep farms are getting pretty tedious.

 

On the fence:

Overclocking and underclocking

Honestly I think it might be a bit too complicated to balance everything out.

It would also be difficult to guess exact damage output required for the mission. But overall I see it as a convenience feature to quickly nerf weapon for easy planets without having to tinker with the mods.

Another thing that interests me, is determining whether or not underclocking is worth it, when going for rewards. Affinity gained per enemy might increase, but rate of killing will decrease. Especially true for semi-auto weapons that usually rely on one-hit-kill, but may be unable to do so after underclocking. Affinity gain might need exponential increase after all. Will be a real headache to find good ratio.

 

Also, how to apply over/under clocking? Does overclocking need to be earned? If so, does underclocking reset overclocking?

If it is indeed a convenience feature, then I imagine it as a simple slider on the weapon, easily changeable on a whim. Player could set it to lowest and go farm Apolodorus. Then for the next mission crank it to max and go straight to T4.

 

 

Focus-like permanent overclocking

Again, this will be hell for devs to balance.

This system seems to be more flexible than full recrafting. Increasing the cap for maxed stats is easier than releasing whole bunch of new blueprints for every single gun, therefore old weapons will not be forgotten and abandoned for long periods of time.

 

Does permanent overclocking increase all stats in a fixed manner or is it possible to choose individual stats? If stats for buffing are manually selected, is the process of leveling reversable? Would really suck to upgrade Braton for the fifth time and dump points into wrong stat (either by mistake, or out of curiosity) and thus, ruin all that hard work by preventing it from reaching maximum possible damage.

Also, I think that free choice of stats will blur the differences between some weapons, robbing them of their identity.

Although, it's intriguing to see how this system will affect Mk1 weapons. Having the largest amount of possible upgrades,  they could be morphed to be similar to any other weapon from their category. Or given some really bizarre stats. Which is exactly what Mk1 weapons are supposed to do - offer as much flexibility as possible, compared to more rigid and specialized advanced guns. Ok, props for this idea. I think I would own several Mk1's under this system, all modded with completely different stats, just for the hell of it.

If stats are not manually selectable, then it's not too different from complete recrafting from OP. Weapon uniqueness can be retained and expanded upon. Also, utility buffs are possible, without feeling guilty afterwards for not dumping everything into damage upgrade. And yeah, no Mk1 shenanigans...

 

Is permanent overclocking based on overclocking from original post? (which I imagine is easy to apply and remove). Probably not, as this continuous permanent overclocking seems to demand hard work to increase. Is overclock-o-meter separate from weapon level? If not, then is player expected to reach 30 with overclock at all times? Isn't it possible to reach 29 in underclocked mode, then switch to overclocking and finish the job? Or does changing overclocking reverse weapon level?

 

Another thing that bothers me with this idea (and regular over/under clocking to some degree), is that implementing it means admitting that mod system has failed in providing booth progression and customization. Basically, it's a return to skill trees.

 

As for the overclocking/underclocking, I would suggest that underclocking be available at the start In order to give players a faster means of maxing a weapon the first time. As for overclocking I would suggest it be an ability gained only after proven mastery with said weapon. In other words it illustrates an individual having the experience to understand how to tweak a weapon to ensure it has better performance than one directly off the shelf.

 

As for the permanent overclocking of the weapon I would suggest that leveling from 1-30 must have a specific amount of time dedicated to a certain amount of overclocking in order to be able to further optimize said weapon.

 

The overclocking amount can even correlate to the number of overclocking "points" a user could expend into any area of a weapon be it Fire rate, reload speed, specific damage types, ammo capacity(mag or pool), Critical hit%, Critical hit damage, Status %, accuracy and recoil.

 

With this system in place it would not be necessary that the permanent overclocking features be static, we could simply have it apply "points" to the weapon allowing you at any time in the Liset to modify said weapons as necessary should you wish to change the style of the weapon in between missions.

 

Also let's address the mods in weapons issue. As a customization system this has failed abominably due to the fact that there is a right way and a wrong way to build weapons essentially that is born out by the mods that are present in nearly 100% of weapon builds to date.

 

With this new progression based weapons system implemented a player would have free reign over what they wanted to do with their weapon of choice without regards to staid old "tried and true" weapon loadouts. In this way we reinforce player choice, diversity, and progression all at the same time.

 

Currently it is clear that no one enjoys having mastery fodder or being forced to carry it in order to level it up only to throw it away. Additionally via this system DE would be capable of releasing truly interesting weapons without real fear of rejection into the mastery fodder pile by the community. If you like it, make it powerful.

 

Sure, work would be necessary but nothing that is easy to acquire is truly appreciated in the long run.

Edited January 21, 2015 by geninrising

[DrBorris]

AAAH btw I found information regarding the focus system via dataminers that will be implemented sooner or later . Unfortunately the focus system will essentially just provide different "lenses" that cause various special effects based on their given class.

Shhhhh, we can hope (and I would not be 100% confident with that stuff, DE does not seem to be that confident in anything Focus related).

 

 

So after reading whole thread again for no apparent reason, I decided to post all my opinions.

 

Things that I liked:

Organized campaign system

Warframe needs this, even if it comes at a price of permadeath of our beloved villains.

 

Weapon recrafting

Great way to bring new life into weaker weapons and finally getting rid of the dreaded term "mastery fodder".

 

Mastery level not tied to amount of maxed weapons (or at least not entirely)

Completionism should not be mandatory.

 

Missions requiring specific power level

Be it by weapon rank, or modified conclave points, power moderation is a must.

Also, what about solo vs co-op? Missions are easier with multiple teammates.

 

Prime and non-prime gear equalized

Either equal, or a sidegrade, I agree that primes should not make regular equipment obsolete. It would certainly be less aggravating to potato weapons that are about to be primed.

[looks at Vectis]

 

Proper weapon tiering (at least initially)

But really, anything is better than what we have now.

 

Separate Syndicate affinity

You really should expand on that, daily rep farms are getting pretty tedious.

 

On the fence:

Overclocking and underclocking

Honestly I think it might be a bit too complicated to balance everything out.

It would also be difficult to guess exact damage output required for the mission. But overall I see it as a convenience feature to quickly nerf weapon for easy planets without having to tinker with the mods.

Another thing that interests me, is determining whether or not underclocking is worth it, when going for rewards. Affinity gained per enemy might increase, but rate of killing will decrease. Especially true for semi-auto weapons that usually rely on one-hit-kill, but may be unable to do so after underclocking. Affinity gain might need exponential increase after all. Will be a real headache to find good ratio.

 

Also, how to apply over/under clocking? Does overclocking need to be earned? If so, does underclocking reset overclocking?

If it is indeed a convenience feature, then I imagine it as a simple slider on the weapon, easily changeable on a whim. Player could set it to lowest and go farm Apolodorus. Then for the next mission crank it to max and go straight to T4.

 

 

Focus-like permanent overclocking

Again, this will be hell for devs to balance.

This system seems to be more flexible than full recrafting. Increasing the cap for maxed stats is easier than releasing whole bunch of new blueprints for every single gun, therefore old weapons will not be forgotten and abandoned for long periods of time.

 

Does permanent overclocking increase all stats in a fixed manner or is it possible to choose individual stats? If stats for buffing are manually selected, is the process of leveling reversable? Would really suck to upgrade Braton for the fifth time and dump points into wrong stat (either by mistake, or out of curiosity) and thus, ruin all that hard work by preventing it from reaching maximum possible damage.

Also, I think that free choice of stats will blur the differences between some weapons, robbing them of their identity.

Although, it's intriguing to see how this system will affect Mk1 weapons. Having the largest amount of possible upgrades,  they could be morphed to be similar to any other weapon from their category. Or given some really bizarre stats. Which is exactly what Mk1 weapons are supposed to do - offer as much flexibility as possible, compared to more rigid and specialized advanced guns. Ok, props for this idea. I think I would own several Mk1's under this system, all modded with completely different stats, just for the hell of it.

If stats are not manually selectable, then it's not too different from complete recrafting from OP. Weapon uniqueness can be retained and expanded upon. Also, utility buffs are possible, without feeling guilty afterwards for not dumping everything into damage upgrade. And yeah, no Mk1 shenanigans...

 

Is permanent overclocking based on overclocking from original post? (which I imagine is easy to apply and remove). Probably not, as this continuous permanent overclocking seems to demand hard work to increase. Is overclock-o-meter separate from weapon level? If not, then is player expected to reach 30 with overclock at all times? Isn't it possible to reach 29 in underclocked mode, then switch to overclocking and finish the job? Or does changing overclocking reverse weapon level?

 

Another thing that bothers me with this idea (and regular over/under clocking to some degree), is that implementing it means admitting that mod system has failed in providing booth progression and customization. Basically, it's a return to skill trees.

 

 

Splitting infested

From both lore and progression perspective it makes sense to split infested into pre and post Mutalist. Pre Mutalist infested were easier and less aggravating to fight against, better suited for new players.

Also Grineer are already split into 3 subfactions: Arid, Frontier and regular. But they don't have any exclusive units.

It would also be interesting to see how both infested species would interact with each other. While they are from the same faction and are made from the same Lancers and Crewmen, they are based on different strains of virus. Would they try to infest each other like Tyranids from Warhammer? 

 

Things I didn't like:

Leveling weapons by using them

This was a thing that initially ticked me off. And I think that I still don't fully agree with it.

I can certainly see the appeal of it. Leveling weapon manually and watching it grow (especially if it's a low tier weapon). With active usage player's experience and skill with the weapon would grow alongside it's power level. Maybe even some sort of sentimental attachment would be formed.

 

But simply leveling things is a very dull process. Even without mastery fodder it would still be boring to max out weapons (multipled by forma and potential recraftings).

That's why affinity farms exist - to bypass this dull leveling. Simply removing this shortcut will not improve leveling experience and will not make people happy.

Of course, upgrading favourite weapon of choice is less depressing than some random fodder that will be thrown out as soon as it reaches 30, but the process is the same. Many people desire to see their weapon maxed ASAP and going through intermediate stages is a chore to them.

Basically, I'm trying to say that this change should be shipped with complete rework of affinity. Some diferent methods of gathering it are needed. Perhaps rewarding skillful and overly complex kills like Bulletstorm.

 

Also, how does this affect affinity from teammates? If weapon can be leveled only with it's own killing power, then kill-stealing ultimate spammers will be even more hated and marginalized. If weapons can be charged with teammate affinity, them new farming techniques would emerge. (two spammy Excaliburs standing on the opposite sides of the map, leveling each other's weapons). Quite the conundrum.

 

 

No taxi'ing

While I understand that this is done to keep the coherent story, but it also means that getting a desired frame is impossible without progressing through campaign. After all - that is the reason why newbies ask for taxis to bosses. And considering that you mentioned Boltor Prime level gun requiring quests - that is a long way to go without potentially favourite frame.

In OP there is a reasoning about particular order of frames to be acquired. But some people see them as characters and not tools. They simply like the theme/powers/looks/name and don't care about stats or difficulty of use. And besides, all frames should be equal. (at least in theory)

 

 

Mandatory Archwing

I feel that it's just too different from the main game. It's not what many people signed up for, so it's only natural that not everyone likes it. Forcing it might be a mistake.

 

So there you have it. My very own wall of text.

 

Leveling weapons by using them: While it may not be the best part, you need to earn the additional power you can bring to weapons. Leveling weapons should stay relatively similar to as it is now (but at least make it faster to rank a weapon up by actually using it, it is normally faster to level a weapon by having a member of your cell spam abilities). The re-crafting of weapons would just be a do-over of that. You have to gain "experience" with a weapon before being able to use it to its fullest potential. Besides that, affinity needs a major overhaul. It is less asked for right now because it will hurt the easy rep and experience farms that exist now. AS you said, leveling should be somewhat skill dependent.

 

No taxi'ing: You siad exactly why I am against Taxi'ing in your response. New players can bypass any progression and just get what they want. For the most part, Frames should not be locked to later parts of the campaign. You have to remember that the story will continue to go on after the end depicted. Yes, all frames are equal, but there needs to be a line where players have to progress to get what they desire. It should not be an endless grind (I wish Mesa could be obtained earlier, but her position is forced), but it should not be given to you on a platter. Also, if there is a way to acquire frames "faster" it should not be dependent on taxis. Who you know should not effect your progression. In a way, the whole point of Warframe is to gain all of the Warframes, to become a master of war. the acquisition of Warframes is probably the best way to entice players to continue progressing. (and some frames should be locked behind some wall, aim-hack mesa, Bladestorm ash, and and "press 4 2 win" nova should not be given to players too early (I am not saying they are OP, but it would not allow a player to gain appreciation of the game))

 

Mandatory Archwing: I completely understand where you are coming from, but completely disagree. Archwing and normal combat actually parallel a lot. The "glass canon" play style, movement focus, and the "feel" are very similar, but manifested in very different ways. The mechanics of Archwing are not that far off. A few tweaks here and there (and an option to disable the y axis thing) and the mechanics will be perfect. The issue is the game modes. Trench run is... okay. but rather than one ship it should probably be separate ships, each smaller (because those Corpus ships are way out of scale) and flying between ships. Exterminate can stay for the most part, but some more interesting maps are necessary. And interception... this is why people hate Archwing... this game mode is less than stellar. It is good in concept, so I guess it should not be completely removed, but it should be much less of an integral part. The suggestions in the OP blend normal and Archwing combat, removing the lines so that the similarities can be easier to "feel".

 

It's not perfect, but it would be certainly a good base to work with and would help in different aspects. (Just my opinion)

Of course it is not perfect. That is the whole point of feedback, hopefully, with effort from the community and DE, it can be made perfect.

 

I suggest the mutalist infested to be added first and ancients late honestly it would much more sense as the ancient ones are rarer and also ancient enemies

What? Sorry, but that makes no sense. If ancient ones where there first... should you not fight them first? The creation of the Mutalist are also separated by a time gap. Infested are a pain in the arse for new players, they discover them in the early timeline, but don't really have an effect on anything until Alad gets funky. The semi-removed point of vie of the player allows them to keep their fear of the faction... and when they find out Alad is making super-infested... "oh sh!t". 

[IcedCreme]

Here's a suggestion for the quest to get Volt's part BPs. In my opinion, Volt requires agility and environmental awareness to use effectively, which I tried incorporate into the quest to get him. The missions would be in the order specified.

 

Individual Missions:

 

1. Corpus Outpost Excavation

 

 The Lotus located an unknown Orokin artefact on one of the Corpus Planets (Mars or , and sends you to uncover it. However, Corpus mining teams are trying to do the same. It would be an excavation mission where the Volt Chassis BP will be a reward for the 1st - 3rd  complete extraction. The squad will only be allowed to go to extraction once the blueprint has been found.

 

2. Corpus Ship Rescue

 

 The Lotus had sent out spies to locate the other blueprints. One of the agents has found the helmet blueprint, however they have been captured by the Corpus, and imprisoned on a prisoner transport ship. In the holding area tile, entering and exiting the cell block by the most direct way would get the player targeted by defence turrets. In order to safely rescue the captive, the player would have to enter through less obvious side entrances, which could require parkour to access. Beyond that, the mission is similar to normal corpus rescue missions.

 

3. Corpus Archwing Sabotage

 

 The agent found the coordinates of an experimental Corpus ship using the helmet as part of the reactor to direct energy to the whole vessel. The mission plays out as a normal Corpus trench run , however there is only one Primary Core. Once the Primary Core is destroyed, the player receives the Helmet BP. The Corpus ship begins to slowly disintegrate afterwards, and the player has a 2 minute countdown to get to the extraction before the ship explodes, killing them and failing the mission. On the way out, it would be more linear than the way in, and there would be a lot more traps, environmental hazards, and areas requiring the player to make quick turns and dodges.

 

4. Corpus Ship Exterminate(/Assassination?)

 

 This is a mission that I think would act as a good teaser for the Hyena Pack further down in the story line. The Lotus tells the player that the systems were found on this ship, but warns you that she detects advanced Corpus technology on board. Essentially, its a normal Extermination mission, however when there is only one enemy remaining, in an open room right before the Extraction, a Hyena lands from the ceiling and roars at you during a boss-cutscene type of thing. In order to get the Systems blueprint, the Hyena Th (the one with magnetic abilities) has to be killed. Upon its death, the Lotus remarks that a group of them would be devastating.

 

Edited January 21, 2015 by IcedCreme

[Innocent_Flower]

I skimmed, but I found something I really didn't like:

 

 

some of the most vital frames that players should get (frost, trinity et al) are right at the end. What the hell man? 

 

 

 

(secondly I found your title misleading, 'progression' applies to many things, you should specify it as solar map progression). 

[DrBorris]

I skimmed, but I found something I really didn't like:

 

 

some of the most vital frames that players should get (frost, trinity et al) are right at the end. What the hell man? 

 

 

 

(secondly I found your title misleading, 'progression' applies to many things, you should specify it as solar map progression). 

*face palm* you know there are 13,000 words here? No, this is much deeper than just star chat progression... 

 

Back to your first opint, as I have stated a few times, it is not really "that" late in the timeline. Everything leading up to Sling Stone is pretty much an extended tutorial. In addition, the map is pretty much a detailed example. The changes that could come about from a system of Progression this complex would open the door for DE o do whatever they wanted as far as Boss versus Frame. Maybe Frame quests could be tied to something other than the story line? Maybe the Frames can be behind Progression Rank requirements (read the post to see what that is). The reason the frames are unlocked where they are is because I wanted to keep it as parallel to as everything is now (level of planets, what boss gives what Warframes, etcetera). Those boss quests MUST be where they are due to how the STORY PROGRESSES.

 

Please sir (or Madam), if you have to put "I skimmed" in your post, that instantly removes most if not all of your credibility. If you would like to comment on something, shouldn't you know what it is first?

Edited January 22, 2015 by DrBorris

[geninrising]

I skimmed, but I found something I really didn't like:

 

 

some of the most vital frames that players should get (frost, trinity et al) are right at the end. What the hell man? 

 

 

 

(secondly I found your title misleading, 'progression' applies to many things, you should specify it as solar map progression). 

Actually Innocent his post includes all aspects of progression from the most basic star chart progression to weapons/mods and even rewards. It even touches on Mastery changes as well as new skill Rank and Progression rank. If you actually read it all it is very comprehensive. You even admitted yourself that you skimmed and that is the problem.

[--Q--uaint]

I would just like to add that Archwing.... Everywhere should really also include the option to play Archwing anywhere outdoors. Imagine playing fire support with Elytron and Velocitus in a high level Corpus Outpost defense :3

[Innocent_Flower]

*face palm* you know there are 13,000 words here? No, this is much deeper than just star chat progression... 

Well, If you're going to be verbose, don't expect people to read the whole thing (no offense meant to be given) 

 

 

Right, So I read more about the weapons. You know the game isn't linear. i wanna go back and forth between all the planets. I don't want to be stuck at a place around my level all the time. The power-gap is already to big, and you seem to want to make it larger. There are far simpler answers to the issue of progression than this. 

Edited January 22, 2015 by Innocent_Flower

[--Q--uaint]

Well, If you're going to be verbose, don't expect people to read the whole thing (no offense meant to be given) 

 

 

Right, So I read more about the weapons. You know the game isn't linear. i wanna go back and forth between all the planets. I don't want to be stuck at a place around my level all the time. The power-gap is already to big, and you seem to want to make it larger. There are far simpler answers to the issue of progression than this. 

 

Perhaps, but they haven't been proposed, or at least not proposed quite so... nicely?

 

Either way, that issue is addressed with over/underclocking