Nekros Rework... Pleeeeez!

[mooser6]

I know the poll shows that Ember is the overwhelming favorite for a rework, but to be fair she has already had "work done" a couple of times now. Ok, so it was probably before most players remember and she was basically nerfed, but Nekros hasn't been touched (at least, not to my knowledge). He really needs some luv.

 

 

I have posted my thoughts on this before, it may sound familiar, but just want to keep the flame alive and hope DE takes notice.

 

I would totally be in favor of a very minor adjustment to him, rather than a complete rework for now (then get on to Ember, and revist Nekros again when the masses have been satisfied with her changes). I would...

 

1. Give Soul Punch a little more AOE to make it possible to hit more than 1 initial target when closely grouped, and to give the ragdoll effect larger AOE on each target.

 

2. Make desecrated bodies do a small AOE blast damage with potential to proc.

 

3. Remove the target cap on Terrify. Better yet if enemies can cower in fear, or seek nearest cover instead of running off.

 

4. Make the Shadows smarter? Not sure if possible. If not, then make it possible to re-cast to summon more shadows at any time.

 

 

 

This wouldn't bring Nekros up to top tier class but he doesn't have to be. It would make him A LOT more useful... especially that #2 which is one of the abilities in the game with a ton of unrealized potential.

[fatpig84]

If desecrate was a toggle...

I be a happy man.

[PickleMonster21]

1. Give Soul Punch a little more AOE to make it possible to hit more than 1 initial target when closely grouped, and to give the ragdoll effect larger AOE on each target.

 

2. Make desecrated bodies do a small AOE blast damage with potential to proc.

 

3. Remove the target cap on Terrify. Better yet if enemies can cower in fear, or seek nearest cover instead of running off.

 

4. Make the Shadows smarter? Not sure if possible. If not, then make it possible to re-cast to summon more shadows at any time.

1) Yup

2) Nup. You're desecrating them. Not putting C4 on them. Maybe there could be an Augment for that but not on the actual ability. Nekky isn't supposed to be a direct damage Frame.

3) I suggested have it work like Banshee's Silence in the way that it gives you a Terrify AoE, instead of just having a few targets affected while everyone else around you just assumes those guys are just crazy.

4) I often think this but then you have to do it for other Frames like Hydroid and Limbo and it just doesn't work. Besides, you could be up to W.20 in a Def and just decide to spawn 20 waves of enemies all of a sudden, all at once. If anything, make em smarter. 

Otherwise, I currently see no need for a re-work. Nekros works just fine and he does what he was made to do.

If desecrate was a toggle...

I be a happy man.

What, like, you turn it on then enemies just automatically desecrate in the AoE upon death? 

[IfritKajiTora]

Remove Target cap at Terrify and nekros will be good

Shadow of the dead, should be stronger thats all. maybe Cap to 12 enemies. 7 is too small amount.

[GinKenshin]

well, ember needs reworking way more than nekros, in nekros I usually use all of his abilities 

I don't know if it has thing but I think soul punch should get punch through, this will make it more useful 

desecrate shouldn't change.....you are really just desecrating them and not putting C4 XD

terrify......remove all the cap, just make strength give it more armor reduction, and make the terrified targets just seek cover and stay there......because really, you see it in almost all the movies and stuff, when you get scared you hide, you do run, yes, but you're only running for a place you can hide in XD


and give the shadows a freaking brain....that's it 

[dummifighter]

and give the shadows a freaking brain....that's it 

How can the shadows have a brain when even their normal variants don't have one :/

Just let them have a leader mind who choses the enemies you want to kill ( or just be a huge distraction by playing meat wall, shadows: you can look and shoot through them and they have the hitpoints of the enemie you killed)

[mooser6]

If only Terrify was improved, I would be happy honestly.

 

Soul Punch is one of my most used abilities when I solo. I run Reflex Guard and it works great to knock down heavies who have you locked in the parry animation, or when your're facing a wall of enemies blasting away at you, knock a couple down then return fire... but it can be tough when you're badly outnumbered which is why I'd just like to see a small increase in the AOE aspect of it.

 

Desecrate is supposedly done via nano-machines, so there's no reason they couldn't burst open a body causing a very small blast AOE with the chance to stagger enemies who are closely grouped around the bodies. Does it need to change? Only to appease those who feel it's a boring and niche ability, otherwise no.

 

I wonder if the shadows intelligence is limited by the current state of the game engine. It seems like DE would have made them as intelligent as possible within their capabilities so part of me feels like this will never happen, but one can hope. As for calling up more shadows, I only mean to sustain whatever the current cap is... not to build an ever increasing army (although that would be crazy fun :)

[fatpig84]

What, like, you turn it on then enemies just automatically desecrate in the AoE upon death? 

 

Basically instead of spam cast, it becomes energy drain like Undertow, Absorb etc.

[Archwizard]

1. Give Soul Punch a little more AOE to make it possible to hit more than 1 initial target when closely grouped, and to give the ragdoll effect larger AOE on each target.

 

2. Make desecrated bodies do a small AOE blast damage with potential to proc.

 

3. Remove the target cap on Terrify. Better yet if enemies can cower in fear, or seek nearest cover instead of running off.

 

4. Make the Shadows smarter? Not sure if possible. If not, then make it possible to re-cast to summon more shadows at any time.

 

Top of my wish list is just to make Soul Punch less annoying to cast. If you ask the devs, they'll say it does AoE - in a straight, narrow line behind him.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think the Desecrate change will influence Nekros' condition enough; it gives you more incentive to cast his most-cast ability, which he simply doesn't need.

The best fix to Nekros would be to remove Desecrate - not simply because of the loot it provides, but because of the corner it forces him into. Players make him or request to bring him into their group for the sole purpose of grinding for rare items, or increasing their revenue when they're rep grinding; if he's not spamming Desecrate, people get very... prissy... about the loot they lose. It was irresponsible for the devs to release a Warframe who influences the metagame, much less one who sacrifices actual gameplay to do so. Further, it makes him a bandaid to the way RNG is handled in this game, when the devs had a nigh infinite number of other options and chose the laziest one.

To top it off, it doesn't mix with his other abilities at all: building for it uses none of the stats of his other abilities and locks you out of casting his other abilities. He's one of the only frames who can be built around the expectation of having allies at all times (because of his minions) but provides the one support function that doesn't blend with that purpose (minions can't pick up drops).

Buffing his other abilities will not prevent people from exclusively spamming Desecrate, it just means they get a slightly bigger yield when they stop to do anything else. People who ask for his abilities to be buffed around Desecrate are just asking for a buff for the sake of a buff, not for the sake of actually improving his gameplay.

 

Terrify, I'd just do something to make it easier to recast instead. The present trouble with it is that you can't cast it a second time when you need it because it causes affected targets to go into hiding and locks you out until they're all dead. Remove the power in use, make it a toggle, give it a slow, anything. Making it affect more targets in one cast can only help you so much, especially since it clears an area for more enemies to come in.

 

Shadows... AI rework all the way. Give the Nekros a way to direct them without needing to micromanage, like a "focus down this enemy" or "patrol this area" protocol when you zoom in on a spot.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Archwizard

[(PSN)MegaFlareX]

To those who say no to desecrate explosions: 

 

Dead Again from DS 2

Casts a dark flame upon corpses, causing them to combust violently.

 

(Sounds like an idea for an augment mod)

Edited January 13, 2015 by (PS4)MegaFlareX

[PickleMonster21]

My only change I'd like done to Nekros:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/366688-who-wants-to-compare-nekros-to-banshee/

[SageBanshee]

Nekros, banshee, and ember need to be reworked. I can't help but notice DE isn't big on tweaking and updating their warframes with the game.

[akira_him]

Terrify cap removal

Make shadows smarter/ do not block bullets(you know, shadows)

[Kruglov]

DE_Scott already said in the last devstream and first stream of 2015 that neither Nekros nor Ember have been thought about in terms of fixes or reworks.

 

Limbo's Cataclysm being a toggle is the only big warframe change we are getting for a long time.

 

Those of you waiting for Nekros Ember or Hydroid to be good will be waiting a very long time.

 

HAPPY 2015

[Archwizard]

DE_Scott already said in the last devstream and first stream of 2015 that neither Nekros nor Ember have been thought about in terms of fixes or reworks.

 

Limbo's Cataclysm being a toggle is the only big warframe change we are getting for a long time.

 

Those of you waiting for Nekros Ember or Hydroid to be good will be waiting a very long time.

 

HAPPY 2015

 

He said he wouldn't comment on them. Not that he wasn't planning to look into them.

 

He stopped commenting on his plans some time ago, more just implying "we'll look into this route, maybe" - as he did with Cataclysm. Hek, the last time the definitive plans were announced on stream, I'm fairly certain he was absent and the others read from his notes.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Archwizard

[trieuazn0]

kinda wish Terrify worked like then them horror movies where the girl is running away from the monster, then she trips on almost nothing

[mooser6]

kinda wish Terrify worked like then them horror movies where the girl is running away from the monster, then she trips on almost nothing

Actually, this so much. Aw man, such a brilliant idea, and the snark aspect is very Warframe.... we need to put some pressure on DE to make this happen :)

Edited January 13, 2015 by mooser6

[mooser6]

Desecrate can't be removed, it's a unique ability in the entire game and it's Nekros' calling card. But your argument about increasing incentive to use it has convinced me that it doesn't need a rework.

 

Soul Punch does have that AOE... but it's very situational. I'd like to see a very small "radial" AOE. Just enough of a tweak to make it feel a little better and give better chance of catching another enemy or two with it.

 

Terrify... the horror movie inspired idea above is so LOL but just that good. Would be an instant classic. I don't know about making terrify a toggle though. If the enemy cap is simply removed, then I'd say I'd be against it. That would be like making Chaos a toggle... a little too strong I think. The "cooldown" aspect of it gives some balance.

 

On the other hand, if Terrify followed Nekros as he moved around and had a radial AOE that would be interesting and would make more sense for a toggle ability. But that might also be very OP.

[Aspari]

Nekros, Nekros, Nekros... where to begin with you? 

 

I can think of so many other characters that are "primitive" compared to you and still do so much more than you have ever done when it comes to Necromancy, or simply being effective in combat. You don't do anything well. Being unique for the sake of being unique is a terrible thing, and you fall into that category. You do nothing well. You don't even do anything decently. Your best function is being Warframe's loot slave. 

 

Nekky isn't supposed to be a direct damage Frame.
 

Maybe that's the problem. Everything about Nekros's kit screams half-baked and impractical. Soul Punch is basically a reverse Pull that has a terrible AoE, Terrify is a $&*&*#(%& Radial Blind, Desecrate is what should have been a bonus effect on an ability similar to what's on Oberon's Reckoning, and Shadows of the Dead boils down to "let's fight dumb mooks with dumb mooks." On top of all of these being impractical, they also lack any sort of creativity. Death from Darksiders 2 makes a better necromancer than Nekros. 

 

Desecrate can't be removed, it's a unique ability in the entire game and it's Nekros' calling card. 

Desecrate isn't at all an ability, it's a loot re-roll. If anything, the effect of Desecrate should be a bonus effect to an ability. Looking at Oberon's Reckoning part of Desecrate's function is attached to it. That's how it should have been with Nekros and his abilities.

[PickleMonster21]

Nekros, Nekros, Nekros... where to begin with you? 

 

I can think of so many other characters that are "primitive" compared to you and still do so much more than you have ever done when it comes to Necromancy, or simply being effective in combat. You don't do anything well. Being unique for the sake of being unique is a terrible thing, and you fall into that category. You do nothing well. You don't even do anything decently. Your best function is being Warframe's loot slave. 

 

Maybe that's the problem. Everything about Nekros's kit screams half-baked and impractical. Soul Punch is basically a reverse Pull that has a terrible AoE, Terrify is a $&*&*#(%& Radial Blind, Desecrate is what should have been a bonus effect on an ability similar to what's on Oberon's Reckoning, and Shadows of the Dead boils down to "let's fight dumb mooks with dumb mooks." On top of all of these being impractical, they also lack any sort of creativity. Death from Darksiders 2 makes a better necromancer than Nekros. 

 

Desecrate isn't at all an ability, it's a loot re-roll. If anything, the effect of Desecrate should be a bonus effect to an ability. Looking at Oberon's Reckoning part of Desecrate's function is attached to it. That's how it should have been with Nekros and his abilities.

I really disagree with everything you just said. I see Nekros as a Support Frame. Soul Punch is a 1. It's not gonna be good, letsbehonest here xD

Terrify, I've already suggested a rework for it, due to it's horrible performance.

Desecrate isn't a "loot reroll". It's a "Hey, you got loot? Here's some more to double your chance of what you're trying to get". A reroll suggests you have Ferrite, desecrate that and it changes to Rubedo. But not. It's a Loot x2 move. And if you take Nekros to Survival, then that's where he shines with his Desecrate ability. "Oh, you died and didn't drop a Life Support unit... one sec. I'll change that".

And Shadows of the Dead is pretty much Loki's Decoy + Nyx's Mind Control x10 -brians.

I'll admit, his powers need a look at, to make him more viable, but otherwise, his powers are good. They are his own. Nekros isn't a Rhino, Oberon, Trinity, Nyx, Ash, or anyone else. Nekros is Nekros, and he's not a damage dealer. Like Hydroid, his powers are useful but not supposed to be used for killing.

[Holeypaladin]

The issue with Nekros... is that enemies have too much HP and don't deal enough damage to hurt each other.

 

If SOTD ghosts did some kind of normalized damage against enemies (As in, they deal damage to each other as if they're both level 1), then it'd be a lot more useful.

[Archwizard]

I really disagree with everything you just said. I see Nekros as a Support Frame. Soul Punch is a 1. It's not gonna be good, letsbehonest here xD

Terrify, I've already suggested a rework for it, due to it's horrible performance.

Desecrate isn't a "loot reroll". It's a "Hey, you got loot? Here's some more to double your chance of what you're trying to get". A reroll suggests you have Ferrite, desecrate that and it changes to Rubedo. But not. It's a Loot x2 move. And if you take Nekros to Survival, then that's where he shines with his Desecrate ability. "Oh, you died and didn't drop a Life Support unit... one sec. I'll change that".

And Shadows of the Dead is pretty much Loki's Decoy + Nyx's Mind Control x10 -brians.

I'll admit, his powers need a look at, to make him more viable, but otherwise, his powers are good. They are his own. Nekros isn't a Rhino, Oberon, Trinity, Nyx, Ash, or anyone else. Nekros is Nekros, and he's not a damage dealer. Like Hydroid, his powers are useful but not supposed to be used for killing.

 

Mag is a support frame (outside Corpus maps) and Pull is a 1. Pull's probably one of the most efficient mass-CCs in the game.

Oberon has strong support capabilities (now that he's found his niche) and Smite is a 1. Smite manages to deal Soul Punch's damage to a single target, while now also having reliable AoE and mass CC or damage reduction.

Hydroid (as you mentioned), Nyx and Loki are the farthest things from damage-oriented and still have strong CC 1s. 

Mirage's 1 is probably one of the most powerful abilities in the game.

Need I really go on? Soul Punch hasn't a single excuse.

 

You're arguing semantics on Desecrate and ignoring the real issue. It was never the fact that three of his skills were bad that drove players to spam Desecrate to the exclusion of killing things; it was always the fact that you can get more swings at the pinata. 

What good are buffs to 1, 2, and 4 when all you do on him is spam 3?

 

And Nekros' ultimate ability - which he has to build up! - shouldn't be merely as good as something any Loki can do Unranked; at best, it reaches what Nyx can do pressing 3 (except there's no target limit there, and no matter who dies it's a thumbs up from you). Quantity does not overcome the fact that they're painfully dumb, ducking for cover (if there's any around) when they should going out in a blaze of glory. 

 

I agree that Nekros should be a support class, but that doesn't mean his skills can't blend. Necromancers should be able to support their minions to create more corpses to raise more minions, but Nekros hardly qualifies in that regard because he's too busy rummaging through Grineer pockets so everyone else can divide up their loose change.

Just being a standard necromancer would already make him unique enough from everyone else; he was suggested in the first place because that kind of gameplay was considered so far out of anything frames were capable of at the time. His downfall is that his powers are so tangentially related in terms of gameplay, he can be outdone in all areas but one by existing frames - and that one is something that shouldn't exist.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Archwizard

[Aspari]

I really disagree with everything you just said. I see Nekros as a Support Frame. Soul Punch is a 1. It's not gonna be good, letsbehonest here xD

Terrify, I've already suggested a rework for it, due to it's horrible performance.

Desecrate isn't a "loot reroll". It's a "Hey, you got loot? Here's some more to double your chance of what you're trying to get". A reroll suggests you have Ferrite, desecrate that and it changes to Rubedo. But not. It's a Loot x2 move. And if you take Nekros to Survival, then that's where he shines with his Desecrate ability. "Oh, you died and didn't drop a Life Support unit... one sec. I'll change that".

And Shadows of the Dead is pretty much Loki's Decoy + Nyx's Mind Control x10 -brians.

I'll admit, his powers need a look at, to make him more viable, but otherwise, his powers are good. They are his own. Nekros isn't a Rhino, Oberon, Trinity, Nyx, Ash, or anyone else. Nekros is Nekros, and he's not a damage dealer. Like Hydroid, his powers are useful but not supposed to be used for killing.

Just because they're his own powers doesn't mean they're good or ever will be good. The only thing Shadows of the Dead is good for is trolling people who have low-end PCs. Nyx's Chaos does the same job, but better, and it doesn't involve putting more actors on-screen that need to be rendered. Just because Soul Punch is bound to 1 doesn't mean it shouldn't be a good ability. Desecrate isn't anything that deserves its own spot as a skill because, again, Oberon has that same mechanic on his Reckoning minus the loot. 

 

Can you really say there's anything good or even visually awesome about Nekros besides the frame's design? I can't. Why? Because I've seen way better for this exact same archetype. If he's not meant to be a damage dealer then he better have utility worth while. Which he doesn't. I'll give you the point about Survival, though. But that's only because of the way survival is designed, which isn't good either. 

[Holeypaladin]

I was actually... kinda upset from the day I saw Desecrate described in a livestream, before Nekros was ever released.  I was just like, "Oh... they're releasing a warframe that everyone will use specifically to increase their loot drops."

 

And I was right.  That's all Nekros is ever used for.  Desecrate needs to die, and not be nekro'd.

[Schorsi]

Terrify is garbage, I really wish it was recastable and that either the target cap was removed or a line of sight check was added. Right now, it is not worth the 75 energy to cast.

 

Some touching up of the shadows AI would be nice, or at least change it so that they behave in a predictable manner. It would be nice to know they won't wander more than x meters of me or maybe of where its cast. The damage the shadows provide is trivial to me, I like them for their utility and CC. Currently, I find the duration to be a bit lacking on the ability for the content I bring it to, getting sufficient kills before the duration expires can be a pain when the enemies hit lvl 100+, I rarely mod for power strength because 7 minions is enough for me.

 

 

I was actually... kinda upset from the day I saw Desecrate described in a livestream, before Nekros was ever released.  I was just like, "Oh... they're releasing a warframe that everyone will use specifically to increase their loot drops."

 

And I was right.  That's all Nekros is ever used for.  Desecrate needs to die, and not be nekro'd.

It still boggles my mind that desecrate was ever added to begin with. Necromancer does not equal lootbot. I wouldn't mind if they changed desecrate so that it only provided health orbs and had a success rate modified by power strength though, when I solo with nekros desecrate is useful for some emergency health orbs.