Replace The Arcane Helmet System.

[Innocent_Flower]

So currently we've got this premium item that you can only get through trade (usualy the trade of platinum) 

 

Now, I'm a lucky guy who had both vanguard and hemlock before arcane helmets were seperated from normal helmets. I don't think I could tolerate playing either rhino or saryn without them; I just hate being slow. But, were I not a person who had these nice things, i wouldn't play either of them and probably whine about this aspect of the game being pay 2 win as you can only get these items through trade (yes, you could say that you could trade for your own plat; But somewhere down the line someone paid for you to win). 

 

At the same time, We still have the problem that DE set out to get rid of. I don't pick the nicest looking helmet I have, because I have awesome arcane helmets with stats that I don't wanna go without. I want to use pulse; But I have storm arcane. I want to use mag's default but I have coil arcane.. And so on and so forth. 

 

 

Simple solutions; 

 

A: Cosmetic parts* of each warframe  come with a small bonus. This bonus is permanent and works reguardless of what helmet cosmetic item you equip. The bonus is smaller than that of arcane helmets but comes with no negative downsides. 

 

B: Cosmetic parts* of each warframe come with a bonus like those of arcane helmets. The bonus is not tied to the cosmetic item, but rather is unlocked as a checkbox in the upgrade menu; To be activated or deactivated 

 

C: a combination of both of the above. 

 

*by cosmetic parts, I don't mean things you can apply to all warframes like sigils, attachments or syndanas. I mean things like alternative helmets or alternatives to specific parts of the warframe (alternate arm-bands for volt, alternate thigh-cage for ember, alternate skirt for trinity etc) 

[Xirka]

DE has stated that they are not bringing back cosmetics with stats, so forget about that ever happening. As for other ways of getting those buffs, perhaps, but that is pretty doubtful.

[Innocent_Flower]

 As for other ways of getting those buffs, perhaps, but that is pretty doubtful.

Point of the thread. They come together, but they are separated. 

[Zurakci]

There is no pay 2 win in this game. The arcane helmets are not pay 2 win.

 

"Pay 4 convenience" is something completely different. The fact that the Arcane helmets were taken away was because some Tenno babies were crying over the EXACT thing that they were pay 2 win or that they never saw the helmet on alerts... OR that they wanted a normal helmet. So they were taken off the market (while still existing like Boar, Machete and such). Of course.. they seem more Pay 2 Win now.. but they are not. Even thought they were taken away, they are still "Pay 4 Convenience"

 

No need to work on them. Let them rest. So no need for this chat now is it?

 

Nope. no need to work on them. No need to think of them. No nothing. Warframes are getting passives. Be happy about that instead. 
Early good nights from Norway.

[Sloan441]

This guy does like to whine, no?

 

How about this idea: you mind your own business and quit worrying about what others have or do.

[(PSN)Pharen]

I really don't see why the arcane helmets and regular helmets cannot co-exist. We have the means to remove arcane changes in the market if we wish to do so, why should some people have the advantage over others? either all arcane helmets need to go, or we need arcane helmets to come back for optional use.

[DSpite]

I really don't see why the arcane helmets and regular helmets cannot co-exist. We have the means to remove arcane changes in the market if we wish to do so, why should some people have the advantage over others? either all arcane helmets need to go, or we need arcane helmets to come back for optional use.

 

So basically "I don't have something and others should not either". Great thinking.

 

What advantage? It's a coop game, even IF there was an actual advantage, they are helping the rest of the team, you know, Warframe being a coop shooter? Or did you miss that part.

[Corvid]

Arcane helmets are DE's biggest failure, in my opinion. Their decision regarding voluntary conversion has divided the fanbase between the haves and the have-nots.

[Sloan441]

Again, I'd advise you to not worry about what others are doing or what they have and tend to your own affairs. There's a reason envy was considered one of the deadly sins.

 

I started playing when stat helms were a thing. I have quite a few and still have a few BPs left over. Some I use, most I do not. If you're in a game with me, you'll probably never know if I'm running one or not (unless you're REALLY familiar with the stats modifications, like the Arcane Meridian). Whether I am or not won't affect you particulary, regardless.

 

In fact, some of the better ones I don't even use anymore, like the Arcane Vespa helm. Why? Because it hardly matters in performance ultimately. The removal of abilities from the mod cards rendered many of them borderline impotent. In the Vespa's case, looks trumps 15% efficiency. Yeah, seriously. 60% efficiency isn't much different that 75% when you're actually playing (10/20/30/40 energy costs vs. 6.25/12.5/18.75/25). The only real hit was on absorb, and that's more than offset with flow and especially primed flow--or I could run a 2 rank streamline, since NyxP has an open mod slot with my typical builds. I retained my original Nyx just in case, but I think I've used her twice since building NyxP. Arcane helms were just that effective.

 

The arcane helms mostly come down to gilding the lily when using them in builds. They're kinda nice, but nowhere near necessary for success.

[Kruglov]

I actually agree with this.

 

I have alot of arcane helmets.

Piles even.

 

The way DE just ... cancelled them was the worst solution possible.

Because the prices of these things just keep inflating.

 

Now obviously you dont NEED an arcane helmet to do well but it certainly helps.

 

I'd love to see the "arcane" part of the helmets removed and made into like an "arcane augment" that you can install on your frame.

 

Like a small metal piece that attaches to the spine of war Warframe, where the backbone meets the back of a pelvis.

Like a metallic tramp stamp.

 

 

Another idea, and I've suggested this before, is to make Arcane Helmets a Syndicate Reward.

Give every Warframe that doesn't have an Arcane helmet YET at least 1 alternate helmet with small-medium stat changes.

Then take all the arcanes, maybe give them some sort of special effect (like a particle effect or texture effect).

Then slam them into Syndicates for a crazy high price like 600k reputation.

 

Either works.

 

 

One thing I do disagree with is your preference for Volt's Pulse Helmet.

The Storm helmet makes Volt look scary and dangerous.

 

Volt's Pulse helmet makes him look like a Waddle Doo from Kirby.

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

I think that, if they were to do anything, that no cosmetic should have an inherent buff, or debuff. At that point, it's just people using plat to get a buff. Plus, some buffs might send a build in the wrong direction. For instance, I will never equip an arcane Thrak helmet, and the reason is it slows a slow warframe down even further. Personally, I dont mind having the Arcane helmets made obsolete anyway. This makes the Warframe economy something special. As time goes by, Arcane helmets will grow increasingly difficult to get your hands on, and will be a good money maker for those that were smart and stocked up on them. I have a Vanguard helmet that is just waiting for a year or two from now, when it will be next to impossible to find, and I can charge whatever I want for it. Demand for Vanguards will never decrease, but the supply will never increase.

 

Allow me to quote Lex Luthors brilliant strategy: "He said: You can print money, manufacture diamonds, and people are a dime a dozen, but they'll always need land. It's the one thing they're not making any more of...and they'll pay through the nose to get it." And with that, I give you Arcane helms. Not only do they permit the one way to possibility fix broken Frames, but they also have the power to take some frames beyond the maximum capacity that frames can naturally achieve. So to restate Lex Luthors strategy: You can earn frames, farm Kubrow eggs, and even purchase mods from the market, but they will never do what Arcane helms can do. It's the one thing they're not making any more of, and they'll pay through the nose to get it."

 

I happen to like knowing that I have an investment that is growing in value. I purchase every Vanguard helmet I can get my mits on, because whatever i pay for them, the cost will increase with time.

 

 

[Thaumatos]

DE has stated that they are not bringing back cosmetics with stats, so forget about that ever happening. As for other ways of getting those buffs, perhaps, but that is pretty doubtful.

Turn all stat buffs/debuffs from cosmetics into attachments like anything else....just not attachments you have on specific cosmetics.

 

I don't understand whats so hard about this.  Do people not grasp the fact that it's a game, it's all code, and the stats are not actually attached to the helmet, physically, in real life?

[(PSN)Pharen]

So basically "I don't have something and others should not either". Great thinking.

 

What advantage? It's a coop game, even IF there was an actual advantage, they are helping the rest of the team, you know, Warframe being a coop shooter? Or did you miss that part.

Typical uneducated response. This game is not solely PVE, and even if it was the fact of the matter is that these arcane helmets which are no longer acquireable makes for unbalanced gameplay.

 

"What advantage? It's a coop game, even IF there was an actual advantage, they are helping the rest of the team, you know, Warframe being a coop shooter? Or did you miss that part." - And if this statement was valid there would be no reason for weapon/warframe feedback in the forums, because there would be no reason to balance those either. Arcane helmets give an advantage, and we have a way of changing them back if we wish to do so. There is no reason why arcane helmets cannot be reintroduced. Nor any reason why they should stay if they cannot be acquired anymore.

[Oriviagene]

This guy does like to whine, no?

[Tain_OSkoom]

I'm sure I wasn't the only person to think that the best solution was for DE to have done the following:

 

 

• give all helmets one mod slot
• turn all arcane helmet bonuses into 5-rank corrupted mods. Unranked drain 5, max drain 10.
  • these mods will be available as rewards for ODD and ODS, or maybe as rewards for some newfangled derelict hijack or derelict interception
  • more minor bonus arcane mods [max 5-10% effects] would be introduced into drop tables across the solar system
• all helmets will have a maximum of five levels of affinity.
  • helmets will not take reactors or catalysts.
• standard helmets will be unpolarized, but can accept forma when attaining rank 5
• arcane helmets [ex: "Swindle"]

  • will come with its mod slot pre-polarized to match Swindle's polarity

     

  • will award the user with the "Swindle" arcane corrupted helmet mod.

     

     

 

[(PSN)Pharen]

 

I'm sure I wasn't the only person to think that the best solution was for DE to have done the following:

 

 

snip-

That could also work. I still think it would be easier to just re-release the arcane helmets.

[Innocent_Flower]

 

I'm sure I wasn't the only person to think that the best solution was for DE to have done the following:

Not an altogether bad idea. Don't like: 

- Polarization. Don't do that. Do you want us to forma helmets? 

- Having a mod slot change depending on cosmetics. 

[(PSN)BlackGuyver82]

I hate when people complain about pay to win.  If the people that spend money in this game stop spending money this game would cease to exist. The people that brag about playing this game and not spending a cent shouldn't have a right to complain about anything in this game.  I guarantee most of the people that complain on this forum are people who don't support this game financially.  Sorry you didn't have the money to buy platinum so that you could buy the arcane helms when they were available. But don't try to punish the players who do support DE financially.  I'm glad arcane helms are here to stay for those who purchased them.         

[DSpite]

Typical uneducated response. This game is not solely PVE, and even if it was the fact of the matter is that these arcane helmets which are no longer acquireable makes for unbalanced gameplay.

 

"What advantage? It's a coop game, even IF there was an actual advantage, they are helping the rest of the team, you know, Warframe being a coop shooter? Or did you miss that part." - And if this statement was valid there would be no reason for weapon/warframe feedback in the forums, because there would be no reason to balance those either. Arcane helmets give an advantage, and we have a way of changing them back if we wish to do so. There is no reason why arcane helmets cannot be reintroduced. Nor any reason why they should stay if they cannot be acquired anymore.

 

And yours is the typical kneejerk response. PvP is a tiny fraction of the game, and NOT worth taking into this topic.

PvP gets it's own balancing. If DE wants to even the field they just have to make the stat helmets "statless" in PvP.

 

The definition of "unbalanced gameplay" implies that one side has a significant advantage against another side, and it mostly implies PvP. I'm pretty sure we normally start with a "significant advantage" in PvE without helmets, considering players go against level 200+ units without fancy helmets and still beat them with cheap tricks.

 

Balancing does not necessarily mean making a game fair. This is particularly true of action games: Jaime Griesemer, design lead at Bungie, said in a lecture to other designers that "every fight in Halo is unfair".

 

Every fight in EvE Online is unfair as well. Or do you SERIOUSLY think that in a game like EvE, where everything you lose means "time lost in the game" people would risk NOT fitting ships for an advantage before entering combats?

 

Here is your "fair fight" right here, quite enjoyable viewing -

At 07:55 is where "Pipebombing" is explained, the bit you SHOULD see, but the entire video is very good watching too.

 

If I fit SPECIFICALLY to counter your fit, I deserve an advantage. If you fit for melee combat, and I fit for speed and kiting, I should win, fighting skills being equal, in PvP. I hardly think the difference that Arcane Helmets make "breaks" anything in PvE, and what they can do becomes even more and more insignificant every day as new mods and classes come out.

[Schorsi]

Arcane helmets provide an advantage to players, one that new players cannot obtain without spending platinum. That is my biggest problem with them. But the current system put DE in a nasty hole, if they were to reintroduce those buffs in any way people would rage in greater numbers than had the benifits been striped with no recourse for the players that had bought them with plat, because now players have payed stupid amounts of money for rare items, only for said rare items to become common to all again.

 

Grandfathering in the stats for helms wasn't what I see as being a mistake, but making them tradable was (or at least not limiting it to a week long or month long trading period so they didn't become the commodities they have become). DE created a limited quantity of a rare commodity that people have invested in and will feel cheated if removed. I'm hoping that one day they will be removed or those stats will be obtainable through other means (Focus maybe).

 

This is coming from someone who has a uses many arcane helms.

 

 

 

I happen to like knowing that I have an investment that is growing in value. I purchase every Vanguard helmet I can get my mits on, because whatever i pay for them, the cost will increase with time.

 

It isn't exactly the investment you think it might be. DE never said that the current situation with the arcane helms would remain. In fact they went as far as to state that it could be changed later. The only thing they guaranteed was that they would  "monitor the situation"

 

 

I hate when people complain about pay to win.  If the people that spend money in this game stop spending money this game would cease to exist. The people that brag about playing this game and not spending a cent shouldn't have a right to complain about anything in this game.  I guarantee most of the people that complain on this forum are people who don't support this game financially.  Sorry you didn't have the money to buy platinum so that you could buy the arcane helms when they were available. But don't try to punish the players who do support DE financially.  I'm glad arcane helms are here to stay for those who purchased them.         

 

I was lucky enough to be around a while before the stats helms were changed. Newer players do not have that advantage, and should not be penalized for starting later.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Schorsi

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

I think that the Blueprints should have been tradeable, but not the helmets themselves. The conversation would be over by now, had things been that way.

[akira_him]

I think I read a thread having a similar idea before the removal of arcane helmets

But DE(L) makes them remove the whole thing

Edited January 17, 2015 by akira_him

[(PSN)Pharen]

And yours is the typical kneejerk response. PvP is a tiny fraction of the game, and NOT worth taking into this topic.

-snip-

Let me get this straight. You just said a small portion of the game is PVP and not worth taking into account. Then in your efforts to justify your argument you use Halo a PVP game as your argument. You think Arcane helmets don't give an unfair advantage, how about this then, what about events? Since they give an advantage that otherwise cannot be obtained, then all arcane helmets should disqualify you from running any event missions. The fact is you cannot claim fair judgement in a battle where one side has an advantage. If a particular build cannot be acquired then how is it fair to pit that build against another in a competition? this is the definition of unfair advantage.

Edited January 17, 2015 by (PS4)Pharen

[Thaumatos]

And yours is the typical kneejerk response. PvP is a tiny fraction of the game, and NOT worth taking into this topic.

PvP gets it's own balancing. If DE wants to even the field they just have to make the stat helmets "statless" in PvP.

 

The definition of "unbalanced gameplay" implies that one side has a significant advantage against another side, and it mostly implies PvP. I'm pretty sure we normally start with a "significant advantage" in PvE without helmets, considering players go against level 200+ units without fancy helmets and still beat them with cheap tricks.

 

Balancing does not necessarily mean making a game fair. This is particularly true of action games: Jaime Griesemer, design lead at Bungie, said in a lecture to other designers that "every fight in Halo is unfair".

 

Every fight in EvE Online is unfair as well. Or do you SERIOUSLY think that in a game like EvE, where everything you lose means "time lost in the game" people would risk NOT fitting ships for an advantage before entering combats?

 

Here is your "fair fight" right here, quite enjoyable viewing -

At 07:55 is where "Pipebombing" is explained, the bit you SHOULD see, but the entire video is very good watching too.

 

If I fit SPECIFICALLY to counter your fit, I deserve an advantage. If you fit for melee combat, and I fit for speed and kiting, I should win, fighting skills being equal, in PvP. I hardly think the difference that Arcane Helmets make "breaks" anything in PvE, and what they can do becomes even more and more insignificant every day as new mods and classes come out.

I can remember when Warframe was 100% PvE and PvP was "never" going to make it into this game.  I told people that PvP will show up eventually...and they threw every name in the book at me.  Honestly...some people just never learn.  Either that or I was trying to talk to a bunch of children that don't have any gaming experience...

 

They're not going to make helmets "statless" in PvP, they need to give people those options outside of PvP.  Having extra stats for people who have played the game longer doesn't sit well with most people.

[Innocent_Flower]

Arcane helmets provide an advantage to players, one that new players cannot obtain without spending platinum. That is my biggest problem with them. But the current system put DE in a nasty hole, if they were to reintroduce those buffs in any way people would rage in greater numbers than had the benifits been striped with no recourse for the players that had bought them with plat, because now players have payed stupid amounts of money for rare items, only for said rare items to become common to all again.

This happens every time new prime items are added to the void. Some old items which were rediculously expensive are now common. give it two months and the nova set will be buyable for under 40p