Here's How We Remove Serration And (Attempt To) Balance The Game. Damage 2.5 (Designated Megathread)

[DayInTheSun]

People who think that removing serration from the game tend to not look at the bigger picture of what DE wants to do.  DE explicitly said that if they plan on removing it, they're looking at the entire infrastructure of the game and how they can change the modding system and ensure that enemies, warframes and weapons are well adjusted to reflect that change.  It's never as simple as just serration disappearing into thin air and having some cores to compensate.  

 

I don't see how anyone can argue that getting rid of serration and having the game restructured around that is necessarily a bad thing.  Depending on what DE does, it can drastically change the way people play the game and add much more variety in play style and weapon modding.

[PickleMonster21]

What? Gammacor has literally 0 recoil...

The sarcasm was strong with that guy xD

 

[biting-back-obvious-stab-at-the-developers] *nggggg*

 

Graphical User Interface...

My one and only grievance with this game since U14...

Apologies. I'm not really a techie xD I play the game but that's just about it xD I don't know anything when it comes to the technical behind-the-scenes stuff :P

But being as uneducated as I am with that stuff, I see no problem with anything, visually.

Except maybe:

 

 

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[swihart91]

People who think that removing serration from the game tend to not look at the bigger picture of what DE wants to do.  DE explicitly said that if they plan on removing it, they're looking at the entire infrastructure of the game and how they can change the modding system and ensure that enemies, warframes and weapons are well adjusted to reflect that change.  It's never as simple as just serration disappearing into thin air and having some cores to compensate.  

 

I don't see how anyone can argue that getting rid of serration and having the game restructured around that is necessarily a bad thing.  Depending on what DE does, it can drastically change the way people play the game and add much more variety in play style and weapon modding.

Ok read through a thread next time I support damage rework eventually it just isnt needed right now its ok how it is it isnt preventing you from playing the game, much more needs to be worked on or fixed before damage 3.0 and the entire game rebalance that comes with that

[DayInTheSun]

I wasn't addressing my post to you.  Just stating in general how I feel on the matter of removing serration.

Edited January 19, 2015 by DayInTheSun

[(PSN)ninja_obama]

don't hate because you cant max our your serration son!

[(PSN)ninja_obama]

Could hating, because you didn't grind out your max serration or hornet doesn't meet you need to spam hate son!

[Phoenix86]

 

Yes, yes it will.

 

On the upside? Legendary cores.

 

 

Oh yay, now I can upgrade my Serra... oh wait.

 

 

I admit i laughed more than i should have :')

[Thrymm]

S#&$ . .how depressing, why do you bother playing this game ?

 

What is with this "end game" crap ? . . is the concept of "no end game" too much to understand.

 

Kindly elucidate, the quoted piece in your post is spot on when it comes to one part of the game yet you seem to - in a rather childish sarcastic manner - include it so that you can deride it, why ?

 

However, I can see why you would want levelling up mods to be easier, you can't be bothered to polly your weapons so that they will accommodate a full compliment of mods.

 

Not being funny but why the hell are you playing this game ? . . and why pick on a post stating just facts to be an example of something, what ? god, and you, only knows.

 

BTW, I've been in gaming since "Ping Pong" (about C1972), so am an "old bugger" whose been on every ride.

I included the quote to emphasis that, yes, I am in fact familiar with that part of the game, and no, I do not agree that this was a great and pivotal moment in it for me.  In fact it damn near killed the game off for me.  I disagree with his assertion.

 

And if he takes that as poorly as you, I offer him a sincere apology.  The fact that I don't agree with his assertions certainly doesn't make them any less of a valid opinion--it's a very good opinion, in fact.  It's a pity that you feel differently than that about my own.

 

The first paragraph is to state that yes, I remember the development phase in which I worked on getting these mandatory mods.  No sarcasm, I remember it.  Sarcasm would indicate that I stated this in a way in which I enjoyed it, but not really---no pretending here, I did not enjoy that aspect of the beginning gameplay.

 

The second shares an experience I had with this, and a bad one at that.  The RNG nature of this game simply conspired to deny my a core attribute for a period of time so long that I actually managed to burn myself out going after it.

 

The "end game" I'm referring to, in context of warframe, is the point in which you are doing what you do, whatever that may be, without worry of leveling up your core anymore and you're developing and progressing through the refinement and strategies you make.  As an old gamer yourself, I'm sure your familiar with this aspect of gaming.  Most games do it with a max level.  In this game, you're essentially there once you've got the mod options available to you to build whatever it is you're working on.

 

I do understand the confusion, as in this game building new things and re-leveling them essentially never ends, which in that context means no end game.  I'm merely referring to it as a concept in which you're able to do this as you please, rather than facing restrictions that a newer player might face such as not having the mods available.

 

What manner of foolishness would lead you to believe that I'd want levelling up mods to be easier, or that I can't be bothered to "polly"(I'm going to assume you're talking about catalysts, potatoes, since I honestly don't have a clue what this polly is) my weapons to accommodate them?  Outside of the new primed mods, I've already got everything maxed that I'm using, ease of leveling this stuff isn't a concern for me.  I also use a catalyst on virtually everything that I enjoy using, which has amounted to dozens in total.  I have no idea what compelled you to draw this conclusion.

 

Which brings me to why I bother in the first place.  The reason I bother to illustrate these things, both then and now, is to illustrate that no, not everyone who believes this could be beneficial is new and struggling to upgrade these things.  Not everyone who thinks this might be a good idea is a fresh gamer without the patience to deal with it, and not everyone is in it for some easy way out of something or other.

 

Frankly, I'm not terribly concerned about this "compensation" that everyone looks for either.  If the damage from the mods was baked in, I don't really see the need--I didn't lose anything.  If we where to take a direct loss, I'd appreciate that core back, but in the end, I'm not overly concerned about that either.  So much for any future easier leveling of mods too, huh?

 

Why do I play the game?  Because I enjoy it.  That's why I pointed out that concept of "end game" in this regard in the first place.  Once over that hurdle, it's a great game and I enjoy it thoroughly.

 

Hope that clears it up for you.

[(PSN)ninja_obama]

DE do not need to remove damage mods! DE has nerfed and messed with the damage system way too much within the last year. Gamers invested time and plat for some of these mods! The problem, is pesky noobs who have not grind enough to max out these mods are crying to much because they are underpowered themselves.  Leave the damage mods alone, leave the damage system alone. Quit messing with things to appease the noobs. Don't change things, just to change things.

[EmptyDevil]

Why the hell did you make another serration thread when we have a bunch already?

[JJStorm]

Need moar

[(PSN)ninja_obama]

so you can read it and replay.

[Katakuna]

Oh yeah, this thread containing a well thought out argument will definitely make everyone who sees mods like Serration for what they are change their minds.

[eddy193]

something tells me a new thread trend will happen

[swihart91]

Another thing I really feel people are missing is we just add the damage as a passive do you know how much easier this game would be. Imagine if when you started and grinding mercury or mars and all of a sudden you basically have a free max seration as soon as your weapon hit 30 (which is easy to do even on the lower planets), where would be the fun in this there is no challenge. That's why I hate the idea it makes the game easy unless we buff the enemies but no one wants that hell a nullified just takes an akzani to get through it but that's too difficult, this game is being made cookie cutter with the ideas people want and I dont want another planet side or cod or destiny I want warframe

[---Merchant---]

so you can read it and replay.

so you can read it and replay.

read it and replay.

replay.

play.

play.

play.

Anyway I agree with this they shoul improve weapons and not modules if you remove all modules from game you still have op and up weapon

if you give +10000% dmg to every module there will be still better and worse weapons

change what is important for balance not what is just casting shadow at them

[Imaru]

Note: I don't care what happens with Serration. Whatever happens I win. I get compensated or I keep my damage. No loss either way for me. As such, here are the sides of the argument.

 

Why serration should be removed: It is a false choice mod. There is no real reason not to use it and there is no weapon that you wouldn't use it on.

 

Why it shouldn't be removed: Players should have the option to use it or not. Players put time and energy into leveling it. The only decent compensation for it would be legendary cores, something that is notoriously broken. 

[Tyrian3k]

*facepalm*

Yes, I totally don't have a maxed Serration and Hornet Strike at almost 1000 h of playing the game. /sarcasm

Damage mods add no customization and are a necissity on every build ever. Claiming that everyone is just crying because they don't have it maxed is silly to say the least.

[Alphafox]

All the people who want Serration to stay in the game have no idea of the harm they are dealing. to it.

[SquirmyBurrito]

snip

 

I completely disagree with everything you just suggested.

 

Tying damage to weapon level is the same crap that DE did with our frame powers, it makes forma'ing a weapon a huge pain in the ***. And in the end, players are just going to use those new slots to up their DPS in some other way (extra fire rate).

 

Conditional mods will end up with the same problems that utility mods have. Some (extra headshot damage) will be deemed okay and will be used to up damage. While others (extra damage against non-alerted enemies) will be deemed too situational and will be ignored.

 

On the 'nerf all these mods' part: Let's not.

 

On the 'rework this and that' part: All that extra work could be avoided by simply keeping the damage mods as is. Scaling needs to be fixed regardless of whether or not damage mods get removed, and I completely disagree with removing endless missions.

 

The revision of weapon tiers and mastery lock is something that needs to be done regardless of whether or not this change is made.

 

And you're kidding yourself if you think this will expand build variety. People will inevitably find the most widely useful/least situational build and that will become the new norm. When ability mods were removed I saw people making the same claims, so far all that did was give ability users extra power.

 

-1

 

 

What do you mean "dont think about what needs to be done after the change"? Again, did you read it? I only unfortunately couldn't explain myself more because I was tired and ran out of time - but I sure as hell acknowledged what would need to be changed after and how.

 

You argue that Serration being replaced with Conditional mods will just make them "essential". Well... duh. To an extent; nobody is going to run around with no mods on their weapon.

 

They problem now is that with Serration, builds are a bit boring. Every build is obviously going to use the +basedamageoneveryenemyunderanycondition mod. It's stale, and there's a whole lot more potential here. Obviously the only conditional mod wouldn't just be a +headshot damage one, or else we would have the same exact damn problem. We could have potentially dozens of different mods that could fit peoples varied playstyles. Don't think you can hit the heads everytime/don't want to? Howabout on unalerted enemies! Or enemies shooting at you, or enemies not shooting at you! You decide! The idea is that all of these mods are equally effective objectively, but more/less effective depending on the person. Rather than Serration, which is just objectively the single most effective mod on any weapon.

 

 

I'm starting to wonder whether or not you actually know what the word objective means. The conditional damage mods you listed can be tiered quite easily.

1. +Headshot damage.

2. +damage to enemies shooting at you.

3. +damage to enemies not shooting at you (good for infested).

4. +damage to enemies that aren't alerted.

 

If you think all those mods that you suggested were objectively equal, I think my assumption is correct. And if players can slot more than one of them, they'd slot #1 on every build, #2 on all builds that aren't against infested (given the ranged infested, it could still be useful), #3 on all builds (every faction has melee units), and most players would never slot #4 because most players don't care about stealth and endless missions don't even allow you to stealth.

Edited January 19, 2015 by SquirmyBurrito

[Cat_Jam]

A part of playing this game for a long time was to level the mods as you got to higher levels... I honestly see no reason as to why the damage mods are being removed other than an extra mod slot (which is the worst reason to say the least). Has anyone got sauce? I really want to know what their reasoning is...

[Nah_NotReally]

Damage mods add no customization and are a necissity on every build ever. Claiming that everyone is just crying because they don't have it maxed is silly to say the least.

 

This.

[Imaru]

Note: I don't care what happens with Serration. Whatever happens I win. I get compensated or I keep my damage. No loss either way for me. As such, here are the sides of the argument.

 

Why serration should be removed: It is a false choice mod. There is no real reason not to use it and there is no weapon that you wouldn't use it on.

 

Why it shouldn't be removed: Players should have the option to use it or not. Players put time and energy into leveling it. The only decent compensation for it would be legendary cores, something that is notoriously broken. 

 

A part of playing this game for a long time was to level the mods as you got to higher levels... I honestly see no reason as to why the damage mods are being removed other than an extra mod slot (which is the worst reason to say the least). Has anyone got sauce? I really want to know what their reasoning is...

Got'cha covered. 

[Jaskaran498]

No problem in removing if they integerate that integrate that damage into weapon itself.

Regarding spending plats and cores on it, they could make another legendary core dropout like

they did with steel aura for those who have serration rank 9 or 10.

This would give more flexibility in modding.

I am tored how I am not able to use many mods and these 3-4 basic mods always take up all the space....

And stop crying peeps, change is good. DE is kind enough to listen to community. If they did something funny lets all cry together and get them to rever that change. 'nough said.

[Drazhar14]

DE do not need to remove damage mods! DE has nerfed and messed with the damage system way too much within the last year. Gamers invested time and plat for some of these mods! The problem, is pesky noobs who have not grind enough to max out these mods are crying to much because they are underpowered themselves.  Leave the damage mods alone, leave the damage system alone. Quit messing with things to appease the noobs. Don't change things, just to change things.

 

For the record, I am mastery 14 with way too many hours in the game, definitely not a noob, and I vote to have serration removed. And yes, I maxed mine out, but I don't care. If you're concerned about damage being screwed up, they could easily make weapon damage scale as you level your weapon. At rank 30, a primary could have +165% damage (essentially keeping serration but adding a free mod slot for customization). If you want progression, we have rank 10 rare and legendary mods to level.