Monster-T Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 IF the definiton of Prime has changed, then Excalibur Prime should also change with the definitions. YOUR argument is invalid. Using that same argument, does that mean that Mag and Rhino Prime should not get buffed? Could you please be so kind to explain me why my argument is invalid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnV2 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Can't please everyone but you can certainly please the majority by simply renaming Excalibur prime to something else (also give him the buff) and releasing an actual Excalibur prime to the public. I mean if every other frame actually gets a prime counterpart, what happens to poor Excalibur? That's really the only way to be fair to everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrsrkr Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 (edited) Could you please be so kind to explain me why my argument is invalid? You're saying he shouldn't be buffed because back then, Prime had a different meaning. Back then lots of things had different meanings. Mods were multiplicative. You could have 4 statuses on a weapon. These things changed. The definition of damage changed, and mods changed with it. THe definition of status changed, and status effects changed with it. Now that the definition of Prime has chnaged, why should Primes not change with it? Edited June 6, 2015 by TheBrsrkr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldisun Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 I've proposed this before multiple times. Founders whine about it because they no longer feel special. Keep proposing it; I think it's the best solution. Since Excalibur Prime is just a skin atm, adding another prime with a different skin doesn't take away my exclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster-T Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 You're saying he shouldn't be buffed because back then, Prime had a different meaning. Back then lots of things had different meanings. Mods were multiplicative. You could have 4 statuses on a weapon. These things changed. The definition of damage changed, and mods changed with it. THe definition of status changed, and status effects changed with it. Now that the definition of Prime has chnaged, why should Primes not change with it? Thanks for the explaination. Well, Primes changed with time - with three exceptions; Frost Prime, Mag Prime and Excal Prime. The first both should get a buff, yes - but Excal is the one that shouldnt get one. Reasons why are enough discussed in this thread. I've just said that the Founders didnt paid for a better Excal - which is true, without the slightest doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrsrkr Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Thanks for the explaination. Well, Primes changed with time - with three exceptions; Frost Prime, Mag Prime and Excal Prime. The first both should get a buff, yes - but Excal is the one that shouldnt get one. Reasons why are enough discussed in this thread. I've just said that the Founders didnt paid for a better Excal - which is true, without the slightest doubt. I do not understand why a Prime frame should not get Prime stats, regardless of availability. This is about balance, not the founders. It is a Prime Warframe, no different from any other Prime Warframe. In balancing, it should be treated as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTanGod Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 The only way DE will buff Excalibur Prime in line with the other Primes is if the founders agree to make Excalibur Prime available to the whole community. Because otherwise the Community would go up in flames with P2W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster-T Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 I do not understand why a Prime frame should not get Prime stats, regardless of availability. This is about balance, not the founders. It is a Prime Warframe, no different from any other Prime Warframe. In balancing, it should be treated as such. Yes, if you're only arguing with balancing he should be buffed, but balancing isnt the only thing that should be flow in a possible final desicion. The only way DE will buff Excalibur Prime in line with the other Primes is if the founders agree to make Excalibur Prime available to the whole community. Because otherwise the Community would go up in flames with P2W. This TheBrsrkr is an example of what Im saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiBBz Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 (edited) The elitism he creates already is bad enough without the founder "master race" having even more of an advantage over the people who were unlucky enough to discover this game after the founder packs were discontinued. It's hilarious how the only people who say he needs a buff are founders, while everyone else hates the idea. Elitism ? WTH are you on about... he honestly does not a slight buff because hes lacking... also not our fault you never discovered the game within the 1 year-ish period... its hilarious that this community has turned into such BS... non-founders being jelly over anything that needs fixing / addressed with founder gear... if you were a founder you'd be thinking the exact same thing, so please SU... also dunno if you know this but ? there are more F2P players now than there are founders... hence why you think everyone hates the idea! when in turn it seems quite alot of founders see that he needs a slight buff! honestly. its like a bunch of kids whining and QQ'ing cause they were to late to get the *Founder Ice Cream Truck* now all those that never made it. have a grudge and want to make those that got there first, Suffer! Edited June 6, 2015 by DiBBz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrsrkr Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Yes, if you're only arguing with balancing he should be buffed, but balancing isnt the only thing that should be flow in a possible final desicion. WHat else should be included then?As I recall, balance is an integral part of any game, and one that is lacking in Warframe as of now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiBBz Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 The only way DE will buff Excalibur Prime in line with the other Primes is if the founders agree to make Excalibur Prime available to the whole community. Because otherwise the Community would go up in flames with P2W. eerrrrrrr! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiBBz Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 I do not understand why a Prime frame should not get Prime stats, regardless of availability. This is about balance, not the founders. It is a Prime Warframe, no different from any other Prime Warframe. In balancing, it should be treated as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven_Smile Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 (edited) -snip honestly. its like a bunch of kids whining and QQ'ing... You mean like you and a few of the other Founders who whine incessantly over something DE has already said isn't gonna happen? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) You can't whine about something that doesn't exist, such as an Excal Prime that can perform in combat. The calls for buffs ARE the whining, whining about Excal Prime not being great in every regard. And to clarify, there is a reason that Excal is getting a total rework. Its because its a bad frame. Also, use the multiquote function. Double-posting is annoying. :3 Keep proposing it; I think it's the best solution. Since Excalibur Prime is just a skin atm, adding another prime with a different skin doesn't take away my exclusive. My favorite solution was just to bring out a new model of Excal Prime, call him 2.0, make the old one a skin and re-release the weapons. Give the Founders a skin for their Lato Prime and Skana Prime (if they bought the right packs) that had special particle effects and call it a day. I've said this for ages. Most people disagree and whine about their precious exclusives that gather dust and mold behind the fridge. ¯\(ツ)/¯ I guess people would rather be special than get the buffs, which tells you what this is really all about. The US vs Them mentality. Its stupid and a plague in this community that is otherwise pretty jovial. This thread: Edited June 6, 2015 by Heaven_Smile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Get ready this is going to Hurt. Cover your B holes - I believe the current Excal prime frame should but turned into type of prime prototype frame for founders and a new Excal prime should be revealed to existing players with buffs. Why?… Why not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiBBz Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 (edited) You mean like you and a few of the other Founders who whine incessantly over something DE has already said isn't gonna happen? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) You can't whine about something that doesn't exist, such as an Excal Prime that can perform in combat. The calls for buffs ARE the whining, whining about Excal Prime not being great in every regard. And to clarify, there is a reason that Excal is getting a total rework. Its because its a bad frame. Whine ? im not whining nor are most of the founder posts ive seen... also something that does not exist ? but clearly it does considering a lot of people have it have it numb nuts! just because the majority dont have it does not mean it doesn't exist! the call for a buff is reasonable not whining sun shine, no one said anything in regards that Excal prime should be #1 and the best... its a freaking game. all frames are good or better than others in certain aspects.. there is no such thing as a #1 frame.. also a bad frame ? hardly considering it was the 9th most used frames beating alot of usable frames for farming and CC control that are far superior to Excal! (taken from U15 StrawPoll) much like the reason excal is getting reworked... it is somewhat the exact same reason why founders dont play Excal prime as much anymore... because its lacks compared to other newer primes! TheBrsrkr put it perfectly... stop misinterpreting the thread thinking founders want Excal prime to be the one and only frame thats better than all! also salty... lol okey then m8 also.. encase you did not know Editing Quotes into an original post does not work anymore as it used to... hence why the new post! Edited June 6, 2015 by DiBBz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven_Smile Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 (edited) Whine ? im not whining nor are most of the founder posts ive seen... also something that does not exist ? but clearly it does considering a lot of people have it have it numb nuts! just because the majority dont have it does not mean it doesn't exist! also.. encase you did not know Editing Quotes into an original post does not work anymore as it used to... hence why the new post! You can't whine about something that HASN'T happened. You can't whine about a buff that doesn't exist. Saying you don't agree with a buff isn't whining. Complaining that your gear needs a buff; THAT'S whining. Also, stop repeating phrases in your posts. Also, it does, because if it didn't, I wouldn't be able to multiquote as I did before. Excal Prime, nor any of the primes, need a buff beyond what the base frame has. That's still something I and many other players disagree with. Excal simply needs a rework. And no, I'm not misinterpreting anything. You are whining that your Excal Prime isn't better than the base Excal, which isn't needed. Just like Volt Prime didn't need more energy compared to the regular. Either way, this thread and those like it need to die off. Its not constructive and its already had an answer before. They are pointless and just cause more disturbances in the community than anything else. Edited June 6, 2015 by Heaven_Smile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordOfScrugging Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 TBH, that wouldn't bother me. If it just got extra starting polarities, I'd be cool with that. Giving a paid only, no longer available frame a buff when DE has stated that Founder's items were to be cosmetic and not much more bothers me. The constant whining over it though? That bothers me the most. had to fish around for this post. in regards to the bolded portion, that is true in a sense however you have it twisted. PRIMES were stated to be cosmetic way back when because it was a current system. that has since gone out the window. things change in the game that alot of people dislike. they stated PVP would never be part of the game, look at conclaive. i believe they said no pets, look at kubrows. they said primes were cosmetic, look at all primes recently released. point is, things do change. The excuse of "i wasn't here to get it so you shouldn't have a buff" is the equivalent to complaining that you were home sick in bed while it rained money and nobody that got that money should spend it cause you couldn't get some. a buff wouldn't kill the game, just bring excalp in line with other primes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven_Smile Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 (edited) had to fish around for this post. in regards to the bolded portion, that is true in a sense however you have it twisted. PRIMES were stated to be cosmetic way back when because it was a current system. that has since gone out the window. things change in the game that alot of people dislike. they stated PVP would never be part of the game, look at conclaive. i believe they said no pets, look at kubrows. they said primes were cosmetic, look at all primes recently released. Ok then, why not bring back the items from the Founder Pack then? Whats the argument against that? Oh right, the exact same argument as why we shouldn't buff it. "DE stated that it would be cosmetic" isn't an end-all, be-all. The prime versions even then had slight buffs, did they not? Excal Prime came with more polarities, Skana Prime and Lato Prime have buffs over the non-prime counterparts, do they not? Where was the issue back then if it was to be purely cosmetic? Oh right, there was none was there? Making that argument, that "DE stated primes would be cosmetic" but things change, is no different then making the argument that "DE stated that Founder Access and Founder Gear was to be exclusive and a one-time only thing" but things change. That's the exact same argument. There is no difference at all. And if you are going to fall to using the excuse "DE is contractually obligated to...", they aren't. That's been debunked a million times over simply by reading the Terms of Service EULA. DE has total control over the choice and may do as they please at any time. They can wipe and reset all purchases without refund if they wanted to, not that it would be a wise choice. The question to be presented and asked then is "If we buff it, why not also re-release it?" The argument for it to not be re-released is the same as the argument to not buff it. Two sides of the coin, same arguments being tossed back and forth. So if we are going into the realm of 'what-ifs' then yes, things can and have changed. Why not change the whole thing? Or rather, why should DE change anything to do with this topic if its sure to cause more issues than to just let people speculate on the forums about such matters ad nauseam? point is, things do change. The excuse of "i wasn't here to get it so you shouldn't have a buff" is the equivalent to complaining that you were home sick in bed while it rained money and nobody that got that money should spend it cause you couldn't get some. a buff wouldn't kill the game, just bring excalp in line with other primes. That's pretty much strawmanning. Never said that it shouldn't have a buff because I personally don't have it. I'm saying it shouldn't be buffed because its paid only content. Different argument. If Volt Prime was Prime Access only and was still in his current state, wouldn't people get up in arms? Rather than giving you the illusion of choosing the wrong answer, I'll give you the right one. Yes, they would. And rightfully so. What more can be said that hasn't be said already? Edited June 6, 2015 by Heaven_Smile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrsrkr Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 The answer to "if we buff it, why not also rerelease it" is, because they were advertised as exclusive, not because they were cosmetic. As I said before, the very definition of Prime has changed between then and now, and primes should change with it, as everything else has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven_Smile Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 (edited) The answer to "if we buff it, why not also rerelease it" is, because they were advertised as exclusive, not because they were cosmetic. As I said before, the very definition of Prime has changed between then and now, and primes should change with it, as everything else has. To which I say "they were advertised as both, you can't have your cake and eat it too". They were to be exclusive, one time only, cosmetic-only items. If one changes in the advertisement, why not the whole thing? You aren't addressing the real point anyways which is, if all primes were one-time only and were buffed, there would be a serious issue amongst the community. It would be called P2W. This is no different. Period. Back to square one, DE is damned if they do, and damned if they don't. So why bother? This thread and those like it just create nothing but arguments, animosity, and a waste of time. Either way, I'm not going to help contribute to a thread that needs to die (plus I noticed my post count). Have fun! :3 Edit to quip without bumping: Why bother is a terrible approach to difficult situations. Not if the best option for DE is to not talk about it and avoid a problem? They were advertised as Prime, and prime meant cosmetic, l. They were not advertised as Prime and cosmetic. This is very different from the hypothetical situation you mentioned, simply because they are not. This is not an exclusivity issue. This is a balance issue, and should be treated as such. Again avoiding the issue. It would be P2W since he was purchase only. Case closed. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Also, why was the Skana Prime better than regular Skana from the start if prime was originally just cosmetic? Avoiding another tough topic? Also, I? I what? Finish your sentences. Edited June 6, 2015 by Heaven_Smile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 To which I say "they were advertised as both, you can't have your cake and eat it too". You aren't addressing the real point which is, if all primes were one-time only and were buffed, there would be a serious issue amongst the community. It would be called P2W. This is no different. Period. Back to square one, DE is damned if they do, and damned if they don't. So why bother? This thread and those like it just create nothing but arguments, animosity, and a waste of time. Either way, I'm not going to help contribute to a thread that needs to die. I made my point. Have fun! :3 That's like voting in the USA. Both parties are bad choices and voters are damned either direction, so why bother voting? Because it matters to a portion of the population. Why bother is a terrible approach to difficult situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLordKogax Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Im sure you will be happy to play and show off Your Excal Prime when this rework is implemented. Heck Im excited and anxious to play him, he gives a Samurai feeling to Me. Hence his Name being Excalibur portrays King Arthurs sword which idk why but He acts imo more like a Samurai. About renaming I really dont think DE would do that but if soo how about naming him Bushido? lol His blade wave ulti is an exact replica of Tachibana Ukyo's abilities from Samurai Showdown. I dnt know much about Excal prime except for the few Founders and 1 GM in my clan and they rarely bring him out but He doesnt have a Void Buff? I mean why complain I wish I had him, Your blessed enjoy what you have for others complain and whine about rereleasing him. I would pay some cash if he was rereleased but only with the Founders and GrandMasters Title to go with it x) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrsrkr Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 (edited) -snip- They were advertised as Prime, and prime meant cosmetic, l. They were not advertised as Prime and cosmetic. This is very different from the hypothetical situation you mentioned, simply because they are not. This is not an exclusivity issue. This is a balance issue, and should be treated as such. Edited June 6, 2015 by TheBrsrkr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissFairy Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Yes the founders deserve a prime buff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husla Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Buff it all you like, just give me the missing mastery points. U skooms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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