Excalibur Prime Buff In Line With Other Primes

[FelisImpurrator]

I think you misinterpreted my post.  I was responding to the gentleman's statement "( as i am sure that most people would agree that in a f2p game having the best version of an item, even if by only 1 hp only accessible via a payment would seem out of character for the spirit in which these games are marketed.)" by mentioning that is not how the majority of F2P games work.  I merely understood his entire statement as trying to capitolize on the fact that there was something that could be deemed as as a middle ground by trying to rationalize that the "middle ground" (Proto Excal) should be better than than the others.

Mm. Fair point. I am half asleep here, bear with me.

But how would you tie it into the lore?

 

I know a lot of people don't care about the lore but to me it's important, it's how everything ties together and the reason I'm more interested in having the Proto Excal skin being a stat changer.  (Not saying you are not interested in Lore, Felis, just a general statement.)

Unfortunately that's what I'm lacking. It would be nice if, say, Proto Excal were made a ducat item, and maybe those who bought it earlier got their plat back... would allow all this to work without shooting the lore to hell and back. I love having more and better lore, so this was one of my biggest issues from the start.

I don't think you play Warframe that often if you think that.

Also, they shouldn't get a buff because they can't get Excalibur Prime, a reward for supporting the game when they weren't sure the game itself was going to make it. IT should get a buff because it needs a buff, no other reason.

*looks at 874 hours clocked on Steam*

 

Hmm. Guess I haven't played much Warframe at all, nope. Better get back to ranking my Mk1-Paris. (Actually, no, it's the regular Paris because I never built the thing and now I have to fodder it...) I thought we were getting somewhere nice and civil, though, so I'd hate to be disappointed...

 

Moving on. I really - truly - don't care much about people who would complain solely about a cosmetic difference. In the long run I wouldn't say it matters much at all, especially if they're (for some absurd reason) salty enough to just ragequit over not having a void key on their head. That's background noise. In my experience most players don't even know Excal Prime exists, though, and when they ask for recommendations their questions tend to be centered on "What's the most effective weapon?" rather than "What has the best gold plating on it?" Most Players are not the forums. The forums are a small but vocal minority. I'm sure all the other something-million registered players aren't all here raiding the threads over lack of Excal Prime, you know, and that's really the playerbase I'm referring to.

 

That said... once again, I would like to provide a friendly reminder that back-reading helps conversations flow smoothly, and that a lot of things have actually been mentioned several posts back. Or across the various threads that happen to have the same subject. (Admittedly, though, thes threads are all blurring in my sleep-addled mind and I'm not entirely sure whether this is the same thread I posted all the other things in.

 

All the old primes should be balanced to be on par with the new. Basic consistency. No exceptions there, and - I would hope - no issues.

 

What this is about is trying to find ways to make it so that founders don't lose out by having bad gear, but non-founders shouldn't be locked out of getting an improved version of a warframe "just because". You think we shouldn't get anything in this discussion? That's beside the point. Why should we? Well, the question that serves as a direct response to that is - why not? If it happens and it can be made to fit the lore it's a net gain for everyone and it solves issues more permanently and fairly than "hahahaha no" for more of the playerbase.

 

(On a totally different note, if I messed anything up it's because I keep falling asleep mid-sentence and really should get some sleep or something.)

[LordOfScrugging]

Nope. Nein. No. Nee. Nyet.

 

A frame available to nobody but those who already have him, buffing that is guaranteed to cause a lot of drama, as just about everyone that doesn't have him, whether they be Disciples like me, or non-founders, would want him.

if the opposite were to happen, all primes had their buffs reverted to match excal frost and mag, then there would be even more drama than if excal were buffed

[Ironlixivium]

Why? Because people that weren't here to support DE feel entitled? That's no-one's fault but their own.

 

     ...The same can be said for founders...

 

'Why must founder gear be constantly buffed? Because people feel entitled just because they were here for the founders program? They got what they paid for, and a little more.'

[FelisImpurrator]

On another note. Just to address a thing I remembered only now because of the whole falling asleep midway thing.

 

The bit about being locked into one look - well, don't we already have that? If you want prime stats, you play prime warframes. We do, at least, get free choice of helmets regardless, and would even if Proto body became the relevant modifier.

 

Now, I'm probably going to go to sleep and hope this hasn't imploded in the morning.

[TheBrsrkr]

 

Moving on. I really - truly - don't care much about people who would complain solely about a cosmetic difference. In the long run I wouldn't say it matters much at all, especially if they're (for some absurd reason) salty enough to just ragequit over not having a void key on their head. That's background noise. In my experience most players don't even know Excal Prime exists, though, and when they ask for recommendations their questions tend to be centered on "What's the most effective weapon?" rather than "What has the best gold plating on it?" Most Players are not the forums. The forums are a small but vocal minority. I'm sure all the other something-million registered players aren't all here raiding the threads over lack of Excal Prime, you know, and that's really the playerbase I'm referring to.

 

That said... once again, I would like to provide a friendly reminder that back-reading helps conversations flow smoothly, and that a lot of things have actually been mentioned several posts back. Or across the various threads that happen to have the same subject. (Admittedly, though, thes threads are all blurring in my sleep-addled mind and I'm not entirely sure whether this is the same thread I posted all the other things in.

 

All the old primes should be balanced to be on par with the new. Basic consistency. No exceptions there, and - I would hope - no issues.

 

What this is about is trying to find ways to make it so that founders don't lose out by having bad gear, but non-founders shouldn't be locked out of getting an improved version of a warframe "just because". You think we shouldn't get anything in this discussion? That's beside the point. Why should we? Well, the question that serves as a direct response to that is - why not? If it happens and it can be made to fit the lore it's a net gain for everyone and it solves issues more permanently and fairly than "hahahaha no" for more of the playerbase.

 

(On a totally different note, if I messed anything up it's because I keep falling asleep mid-sentence and really should get some sleep or something.)

THe cosmetic thing was a joke, but now that I look at it, I suppose it is kinda insulting. Sorry about that.

 

The thing is, I don't think we should buff Excalibur just because Excalibur Prime is getting a buff. Why? We didn't do anything to earn it. The Founders gave their time and money to a not-too-bright prospect of an MMO in a sea of other MMOs and helped fund and expand the game and its content. Excalibur, Lato and Skana Prime were the rewards of taking that risk. They got left behind with the many, many changes that Warfraame has had since then, and now we're trying to bring  that back up. They earned it. They practically made the game.

We, the non-founders, did not take those risks. We did not support the game in its infancy, and therefore we did not earn the rewards. Giving non-founders an Excalibur buff because Excalibur sucks? I fully support that, and we're actually getting that. Giving Excalibur a buff simply because we whine for what we can't have? Not so much.

[30mg]

On another note. Just to address a thing I remembered only now because of the whole falling asleep midway thing.

 

The bit about being locked into one look - well, don't we already have that? If you want prime stats, you play prime warframes. We do, at least, get free choice of helmets regardless, and would even if Proto body became the relevant modifier.

 

Now, I'm probably going to go to sleep and hope this hasn't imploded in the morning.

What about immortal skins ?

[Ironlixivium]

What about immortal skins ?

yeah...some people complain that mag prime's is bugged because it gets rid of so much gold, the truth is mag doesn't have that much bonus gold.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Ironlixivium

[FelisImpurrator]

THe cosmetic thing was a joke, but now that I look at it, I suppose it is kinda insulting. Sorry about that.

 

The thing is, I don't think we should buff Excalibur just because Excalibur Prime is getting a buff. Why? We didn't do anything to earn it. The Founders gave their time and money to a not-too-bright prospect of an MMO in a sea of other MMOs and helped fund and expand the game and its content. Excalibur, Lato and Skana Prime were the rewards of taking that risk. They got left behind with the many, many changes that Warfraame has had since then, and now we're trying to bring  that back up. They earned it. They practically made the game.

We, the non-founders, did not take those risks. We did not support the game in its infancy, and therefore we did not earn the rewards. Giving non-founders an Excalibur buff because Excalibur sucks? I fully support that, and we're actually getting that. Giving Excalibur a buff simply because we whine for what we can't have? Not so much.

I said I was going to sleep, but... *sigh*

 

Read. The. Posts. Please. I just want to rest. And apparently, if someone, anyone is still assuming this is about "whining for what we can't have", I apparently cannot just shut my eyes for more than five minutes without reminding people to go over the actual point again.

 

For the last time. I have nothing against Founders, except that small and obnoxious minority that brings the rest down by acting elitist. I want them to be able to get their money's worth out of this game and their items. This has not been a disputed thing for, what, several pages now? Yes. They bought and paid for their status, they've earned the right for those status symbols to remain competitive and not just shiny, useless trophies.

 

But. BUT. When it comes to providing an alternative buff for something that, specifically, does not have any alternative. The question is still this. Why not? Why not? Why not? No one loses anything. Everyone gains something. In what universe is that a bad thing for anyone involved? How many times do I have to reiterate it, how specifically do I have to word it, for this to get across for the last time? Guess what. We didn't "earn" Prisma Skana, but Prisma Skana exists. Too late for take-backs. And I thought it was pretty much the consensus that Skana Prime should be equal or equivalent to Prisma Skana, but not better or worse. So why does it suddenly become an issue again when it comes to how many Excals get to suck energy out of a void orb, or charge their shields a little faster, or get an extra layer of health or shield or armor?

 

What would it achieve if we buffed those primes, but the answer to the Excal question just stayed "too bad, too late, now shut up and get out" forever? Let me tell you: Nothing. Nothing whatsoever. Except probably make things even worse and create more irrational hate for Founders. Because either way, someone loses, and if you think the ideal solution is a state where someone has to lose for someone else to benefit, I really, really, really have to question your conclusions.

 

And that's it. I'm just. I'm done. Now I'm going to go to bed, and hope that by the time I wake up in the morning, any response that exists in this thread won't involve reading half of a post and concluding that it means something completely different from what it's actually trying to say. Because I'm quite literally sick and tired of everything to do with this song and dance, and for a few hours I thought it was over and we could actually talk about something productive, but obviously I was wrong. Again. So thanks for that.

[Sangad]

I think DE should just buff Excalibur P if majority of founders desire so without regards to the community

[TheBrsrkr]

-snip-

 

I'm not against making another Excalibur/Skin/whatever with buffs or not, and I'm certainly not (willingly) insulting you in any way. It's not an issue for me. I just think that the question "why" has the same value as the question "why not". Well, I see now you gave a why, and I happily agree with you. No big deal, man.

 

 

I think DE should just buff Excalibur P if majority of founders desire so without regards to the community

 

This would create actual galaxies of salt.

Edited June 10, 2015 by TheBrsrkr

[ByulSahn]

Excalibur, Lato, and Skana Prime should all be buffed.

For the rest of you complaining, please sit down and relax. These items are exclusive to the Founders and more or less have nothing to do with us non-founders. They got them in compensation to their investing in the game, which none of us did. Yes, there may have been circumstances not letting us, money, life, war, and/or ignorance, but do not use that as a way to keep others from having their share. As stated previously, Excalibur Prime came out under the "promise" that primes, IN GENERAL, would not get buffs, more or less making them a reskin/remodel of the current frames. However, that statement has now been retracted, and Excalibur Prime should also get a similar prime buff seeing as how it was "bought" in light of a "lie." Call it compensation if you will.

Edited June 10, 2015 by satoshikid

[TheBrsrkr]

Excalibur, Lato, and Skana Prime should all be buffed.

For the rest of you complaining, please sit down and relax. These items are exclusive to the Founders and more or less have nothing to do with us non-founders. They got them in compensation to their investing in the game, which none of us did. Yes, there may have been circumstances not letting us, money, life, war, and/or ignorance, but do not use that as a way to keep others from having their share. As stated previously, Excalibur Prime came out under the "promise" that primes, IN GENERAL, would not get buffs, more or less making them a reskin/remodel of the current frames. However, that statement has now been retracted, and Excalibur Prime should also get a similar prime buff seeing as how it was "bought" in light of a "lie." Call it compensation if you will.

We're past that.

Though I can't blame you for not reading through the entire thread.

[MagPrime]

We're past that.

Though I can't blame you for not reading through the entire thread.

I've been here for most of this thread and I dun wanna read through it again lol

[ByulSahn]

Haha, I read up to page 20 and just kind of gave up; it was more or less the same cookie cutter arguments each time o.x

[TheBrsrkr]

Can we get this Archived? The first thread about Founders items that actually led to something other than permanent salt.

[ArchBlood]

Haha, I read up to page 20 and just kind of gave up; it was more or less the same cookie cutter arguments each time o.x

Pretty much. Same thing every thread about anything involving Founder items.

[MagPrime]

Can we get this Archived? The first thread about Founders items that actually led to something other than permanent salt.

It should be locked and pinned then, not archived.

 

And I think only the OP can make that happen.

[Valar.Morghulis]

Wah wah wah! I'm a little sad because I don't have this and you do! Well guess what: They don't care! I would love to see a buff for Excal Prime, he deserves it, after all, he is a Prime. I don't even have him! I'm on freaking PS4!

 Frost is a prime to but has the same stats as the original, so your logic fails.

 

If they buff Excal Prime and remain him as exclusive that will give all the forum trolls the ammo they need to make a legitimate argument that Warframe is "Pay-2-Win"

[EvilChaosKnight]

 Frost is a prime to but has the same stats as the original, so your logic fails.

 

If they buff Excal Prime and remain him as exclusive that will give all the forum trolls the ammo they need to make a legitimate argument that Warframe is "Pay-2-Win"

Frost, Mag and Excal Pr all need to be brought up in line with other primes.

 

YOUR logic fails here actually since Ember Pr who previously had no passives recently got extra armor compared to the stock variant.

Edited June 11, 2015 by EvilChaosKnight

[MagPrime]

 Frost is a prime to but has the same stats as the original, so your logic fails.

 

If they buff Excal Prime and remain him as exclusive that will give all the forum trolls the ammo they need to make a legitimate argument that Warframe is "Pay-2-Win"

No it wont.

 

If DE does a sweeping balance to all Prime weapons, then how is it P2W?  They wouldn't be buffing just the Founders items, it'd be a change across the board.  

[Eidolon_Slayer]

It's not so much pay-to-win as it is elitism-to-win or luck-to-win.

What the heck do we win? We get:

 

-outgunned by Mesa

-kills stolen by Saryn

-out-tanked by Rhino

-Lose in a melee fight compared to Valkyr

-Less mobile than Zephy

-Lower survival rate compared to Loki

 

Regarding the dumb logic behind Pay-to-Win used by certain ***ots in this debate..

 

If I bought any frame on the market with Platinum (bought from my money), and those frames were buffed. This would technically be pay-to-win based the logic provided by these ***ots.

 

B-but pay-to-win gear only applies to non-exclusive items! No, it doesn't, A game like Neverwinter. You can buy gear instead of grinding it yourself (which you would get eventually).

 

B-but that's not pay to win if we can get that gear without paying for it! Same logic applies from those ots use. If I payed for something it's automatically pay-to-win despite being inferior to nearly everything else.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Prometheium

[bl4ckhunter]

What the heck do we win? We get:

 

-outgunned by Mesa

-kills stolen by Saryn

-out-tanked by Rhino

-Lose in a melee fight compared to Valkyr

-Less mobile than Zephy

-Lower survival rate compared to Loki

that is a problem that affects both excaliburs, the upcoming rework to normal excalibur would result in a rework of  excalibur prime too, that's not even relevant to the discussion, the buff that's the subject of the discussion is wherether excalibur prime should or not be better than standard excalibur and i say it shouldn't becouse no prime frame should be better and base frames should be buffed becouse this will in the end in DE releasing frames with lacking base stats to sell better future prime accesses (see volt, who would've got the prime access if volt prime wasn't so much better than the original?? sneaky marketing manouvre if you ask me.

 

 

Regarding the dumb logic behind Pay-to-Win used by certain ***ots in this debate..

 

If I bought any frame on the market with Platinum (bought from my money), and those frames were buffed. This would technically be pay-to-win based the logic provided by these ***ots.

 

B-but pay-to-win gear only applies to non-exclusive items! No, it doesn't, A game like Neverwinter. You can buy gear instead of grinding it yourself (which you would get eventually).

 

B-but that's not pay to win if we can get that gear without paying for it! Same logic applies from those ots use. If I payed for something it's automatically pay-to-win despite being inferior to nearly everything else.

pay to win means getting an exclusive advantage throught money over non paying players, you would be getting an advantage over non paying excalibur players in case of excalibur prime getting a buff volt style unless they release another different version reskin excal the same stats of excal prime (and i'm getting this gut feeling of prisma excal to be honest, specially after looking at the valkyr skin and at the prisma skana, i wouldn't exclude this from happening) that's pay to win and insulting anyone is not going to change anything, only serves to make people think you've run out of arguments 

[Eidolon_Slayer]

that is a problem that affects both excaliburs, the upcoming rework to normal excalibur would result in a rework of  excalibur prime too, that's not even relevant to the discussion, the buff that's the subject of the discussion is wherether excalibur prime should or not be better than standard excalibur and i say it shouldn't becouse no prime frame should be better and base frames should be buffed becouse this will in the end in DE releasing frames with lacking base stats to sell better future prime accesses (see volt, who would've got the prime access if volt prime wasn't so much better than the original?? sneaky marketing manouvre if you ask me.

 

pay to win means getting an exclusive advantage throught money over non paying players, you would be getting an advantage over non paying excalibur players in case of excalibur prime getting a buff volt style unless they release another different version reskin excal the same stats of excal prime (and i'm getting this gut feeling of prisma excal to be honest, specially after looking at the valkyr skin and at the prisma skana, i wouldn't exclude this from happening) that's pay to win and insulting anyone is not going to change anything, only serves to make people think you've run out of arguments 

I've had so many good arguements in that other thread. But people won't bother going through all those pages to read them! You're the perfect example of your own accusation. 

[LordOfScrugging]

that is a problem that affects both excaliburs, the upcoming rework to normal excalibur would result in a rework of  excalibur prime too, that's not even relevant to the discussion, the buff that's the subject of the discussion is wherether excalibur prime should or not be better than standard excalibur and i say it shouldn't becouse no prime frame should be better and base frames should be buffed becouse this will in the end in DE releasing frames with lacking base stats to sell better future prime accesses (see volt, who would've got the prime access if volt prime wasn't so much better than the original?? sneaky marketing manouvre if you ask me.

 

pay to win means getting an exclusive advantage throught money over non paying players, you would be getting an advantage over non paying excalibur players in case of excalibur prime getting a buff volt style unless they release another different version reskin excal the same stats of excal prime (and i'm getting this gut feeling of prisma excal to be honest, specially after looking at the valkyr skin and at the prisma skana, i wouldn't exclude this from happening) that's pay to win and insulting anyone is not going to change anything, only serves to make people think you've run out of arguments 

no founders asked for a volt style buff. what i've see is more of a rhino prime, loki prime buff. something that doesn't differentiate too much. it's those arguing against it that are blowing it up as if founders are asking for 900 armor, 1200 health and infinite energy

Edited June 11, 2015 by LordOfScrugging

[Dustii-chan]

Sorry Founders, but I'm gonna have to say no. For the sake of not dividing the community if it ever were to happen. I'll take the salt if it means we all can be as one.