Ember Changes [Post 15.11.0 Megathread]

[Azawarau]

Btw adding a bonus Heat dmg to Fireblast would mean insta trashing Fireball Frenzy augment

It could be made to explode and proc KD or fire multiple homing fireballs

[geninrising]

Btw adding a bonus Heat dmg to Fireblast would mean insta trashing Fireball Frenzy augment

Fireball Frenzy is already insta trash because it does nothing for the frame that equips it. You do realize precisely how dependent Ember is upon every single slot she has right?

[Phoenix86]

It could be made to explode and proc KD or fire multiple homing fireballs

 

like a M.I.R.V. ? i like it :)

 

Fireball Frenzy is already insta trash because it does nothing for the frame that equips it. You do realize precisely how dependent Ember is upon every single slot she has right?

 

Yes, i do, i just pointed out that the 2 things would be redundant, maybe i should have better phrased it

Edited January 22, 2015 by Phoenix86

[geninrising]

Ok so now we are experiencing a massive trend here. All players state to remove duration on WoF. Even the community moderator Einde.

You know you've messed up when community moderators side with everyone else over DE.

 

Gave up counting posts at this point because literally everything else I have seen is negative after last night.

 

like a M.I.R.V. ? i like it :)

 

 

Yes, i do, i just pointed out that the 2 things would be redundant, maybe i should have better phrased it

yeah it's np many people have had confusing comments only to later explain more fully and clarify. We all have the same thoughts on thos damage buffing augments anyway so I should have assumed you were standing in line with the rest of us on the subject. 

[belcebub]

Armour buff: good.

 

Speed buff: good.

 

Blast thingie wall of fire: knockback is a ppreciated, line of sight is very unpredictable though, on eris tileset it acted all weird. The damage from it is barely even there though. It doesn't have to be a room clearer, but a little more couldn't hurt. Also not sure what mods, if any, influence the range & spread. Imo, it could function kinda like how nova's mprime spreads, but another duration dependancy would be bad so i don't know (too lazy to test right now and pugs on eris just mostly die all over the place)

 

World on fire: more like energy starvation. It's not even worth using in its current state. That says something when i don't want to use a frame's 'ult'.

 

Overall: these changes improve ember's survivability via armour and runspeed, by a little (and it feels good ingame). One of the main problems she has in my opinion is still here though and hasn't been addressed in the slightest, and that is her too many dependancies on power strength, range and duration. Go try fit all of those to a useful degree in the 8 slots, i dare you. She is a power focused damage frame, at least that appears what she's supposed to be. As has been suggested, duration on WoF needs to go. The toggle ability is completely pointless as it is right now, the skill is already short if you build for, you know, damage, and it actually only seems to make a tiny bit of sense if you take into consideration the energy generation problem that these changes introduced in the first place. But even then, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

[Phoenix86]

yeah it's np many people have had confusing comments only to later explain more fully and clarify. We all have the same thoughts on thos damage buffing augments anyway so I should have assumed you were standing in line with the rest of us on the subject. 

 

eheheh, my bad :p 

too many posts everywhere today

[Azawarau]

With high duration WoF is worth using

 

Scratch that

 

With medium duration its worth it

[tris1]

fireball: fine it has cc and gd damage

 

accelerant: its gd for boosting fire damage which is very gd and a tiny cc

the problem is you must use it to get your damage high enough to do decent damage and that a problem you should not have to rellie on a skill to boost another skill.

 

accelerant needs to visible show enemies that were hit by accelerant while also giving a damage reduction nothing like overheat just something to let her stand in battle for a tiny bit

 

fireblast: the update defiantly made a difference its brought it up to a better level however it should still have fire inside the ring which panics eneimies who enter

 

world on fire: duration is no way needed it just hampers the ability, the problem is you also need to use accelerant with WOF to get gd damage since most enemies are resist to fire.

 

world on fire needs the duration taken out while also having added damage of its own while nerfing accelerant a bit or have it degrade armour and shields for every hit it does to an enemy meaning it would do greater damage however for this to be effective the target limit would need to go but having the range kept small. at the end of wof it creates a blast of fire from ember that leaves them panicked

[Phoenix86]

Imho this is the only viable combination: (would love to see other builds if you have them)

 

http://goo.gl/tJOibL

 

I left 1 slot open because that's where you want to put a forma and fill it with whatever you want to increase:

Intensify, Rush, Overextended, Redirection, Vitality, Vigor would be my choices (in that specific order)

 

A 2nd forma would be needed in order to change Aura polarity but i dont think Ember is worth 2 formas right now

Edited January 22, 2015 by Phoenix86

[as3mbus]

Armor,stamina & speed buff is rly gud for me ( my ember wont die by 1 scratch from charger anymore & i can dodge more)

Fireblast look nice. But regretably need LoS

WOF got nerfed rly bad. It like prism, but much² weaker. Animation speed is great, but toggle seems useless.

Srsly why i need 100 energy to hit 3 enemies and dealing 4k damageto them each. While prism can hit many enemies with her prism and notable damage.

Prism range can fill a room but Ember WoF cant even fill a platform.

In the end only things i want for ember is return the old WoF or change it mechanic.

[FriendlyFire]

I've been thinking long and hard about how to fix Ember's problems. The fact she requires all four stats (strength, duration, range, efficiency) is untenable since all current high-end builds on all frames rely on corrupt cards to discard one stat in exchange for buffing the others. The new Ember changes are good: more armor makes her more survivable while under enemy fire, her new fire shockwave gives her a bit of well-needed CC. Disappointingly, though, she's still a nightmare to mod for since she needs all four stats, and her ultimate is still very limited and actually takes more energy than it used to if you mod for duration, which you want for Accelerant.

 

I think there might just be a way to make her a very interesting frame with the current abilities and just minor changes. First, I'd eliminate the max duration on World on Fire. It should be Ember's Peacemaker, a toggle that keeps draining. Second, and that's the key, I'd make it so enemies killed within WoF's range have a higher chance of dropping energy orbs.

 

If you think about it, you'll realize this suddenly changes everything. Ember's design encourages her to get in the thick of it, and her upgraded armor further emphasizes this, but she quickly burns out (ha) due to lack of energy. With this modification, the M.O. for Ember would be to cast WoF, then aggressively run for targets to kill so she can sustain her casting. The more she kills, the more she gets energy, the more she can sustain herself. If no enemies are in range, you toggle out of WoF and regen for a bit. It also means you can focus less on energy efficiency in favor of the other stats. Bonus points if the amount of orbs is tied to another stat.

 

If energy orbs are too overpowered with other frames leeching them, then I'd make it so the enemies directly replenish a bit of energy when they die.

[Phoenix86]

Even just adding Blast procs to WoF would make it great to use...

just imagine it knocking down everyone, afterall we make 30-40 explosions over 10 secs, why no Blast procs?

 

Oh and get rid of the bloody 3 max target cap limit or make it enhanceable by power Strenght

[xzenocrimzie]

This is the best way to keep ember competitive and the mechanic even acts like her element!

+1 and as much support as I can give the idea.

[MrNonApplicable]

This is my conclusion from the megathread quoted word, for word :)

 

 

"Okay guys OP here.
Me and DeRebecca did a few hours testing embers viability and scaling in mars, T4surv and Ceres Draco last night.

 

Here's my conclusion:

 

Ember in her current state is a 100% viable frame, she can deal large damage, and with enough team member to keep you alive and res you when you end up downed, you can still crush and push back most enemies that you take on. However, you will need to chew through health restores.

 

Okay, that said the way this worked was basically by spamming her 2nd and 3rd, ..a stun and and damage buff, followed by stun, cc and damage (buffed).

 

I did some testing with and without accelerant and found the damage dealing abilities of ember to deal trivial damage without accelerant. This basically made accelerant necesary for any damage casting.

While this meant it worked, this makes accelerant seem like a bandaid ability really, a ability to buff embers damage to viable levels, rather than just buffing embers damage to viable levels in the first place.

 

I did notice that basically any time you stopped running around, you were almost immediately pummeled and that trying to revive a team mate usually led to a domino effect of deaths. Once again, too much glass, not enough cannon, because there was nothing in embers kit strong enough to keep enemies at bay while I put my fragile self in harms way.

 

Everyone's said enough on WoF now, I don't need to cover that much. It was okay for short charges (as long as you applied your damage buff first). but it didn't feel like an ulti.

 

 

Okay, here's my idea to remedy ember's problems;

 

Scrap accelerant and just buff embers damage capabilities, ..don't make us use an ability just to facilitate them being useful.

Give her damage the ash treatment, mix in some finisher damage to ignore armor and shields. Then you won't have to worry about her being too OP at lower levels and useless at higher, because a fair splash of normal and ignoring damage makes for no need of crazy damage at low levels just to keep up later on.

 

Replace accelerant with an ability similar to old overheat, that reduces incoming damage from projectiles at a hard cap of 30% maybe, increases outgoing damage (of ability and wep damage not excessively) and increases chance of knockdown resist (to keep you running) With the latter two improved by power strength.

 

Remove the duration timer on WoF and the target cap. Honestly, this is just so bad, I spent nearly all of my duration running around a guy not targeted by my WoF on Ceres Draco as it's 3 target limit was being used up by other enemies, while this one guy was trying to kill me.

Ember is not strong, and she has to get close to enemies to deal damage, but the risk, vs reward is way off, I could have been killed, never having hit that one enemy feet away from me taking pot shots before the duration ended, if I hadn't just shot him.

 

If ember needs to get so close, and put herself at such risk, the reward must be worth it."

Edited January 22, 2015 by MrNonApplicable

[Djego27]

Ok did play quite a bit more hours with her by now, including solo defence for syndicates against L30 corpus.
 

Fire Blast: It can fail if targets are partial behind cover, what is a big issue if you try to revive somebody against corpus/grenier, it works like a charm against infested. It should be a cheaper to cast and make the effect more transparent, since it it makes it very hard even for somebody that is used to haveing a lot of explosions on the screen with WoF to still shoot stuff while you use it, combined with the ring of fire that also hinders sight on targets. It also should have knockdown, since some enemies still shoot you while getting knocked back, what makes it fairly bad when you try to revive somebody.

WoF: The toggle as it is implemented now makes nobody happy. It is still duration based, uses more energy, duration builds get punished by becomming less energy effiencent and turning it off before it runs out hardly helps to conserve energy because of the high inital casting cost outside of a very high duration build, with my 7s duration on it I would use fireball anyway if I don't have enught targets for WoF anyway. While I can now again pick up energy again/use energy syphon while it runs I can't use energy restores, what is vital for point defence like today in a corpus defence with a random 6% damage loki prime that managed to die 5 times and forced me to nuke the energy pool multiple times just to keep the pod alive after spending 20s away from the pod to pick him up again. While I get why Mirage and Mesa should not be able to just drop energy restores while keeping her 4 running(especially with mesa) Ember still dies very quick to direct damage while WOF is running, it includes a lot of movement and gun play(to shoot what shoots you first because WoF has the tendency to rather hit something in the next room instead of the enemy in front of you) and has to be right on top of targets. This restriction is huge issue for me, since I need to put WoF off in situations where I desperatly need the extra dps to clear a point quick. Ember is as far as you can get away from P42W gameplay that you see done by so many Excalibur and Mesa players because the range and damage of WoF doesn't make it suitable for that and you still can be killed very quick because you don't have amazing damage migration like mesa to stand right in front of the target and shoot it down or the range to just stand in the centre of a map and spam 4 like Excaliburs do. If you make it a toggle, reduce the activation to 10 energy and let it consume energy every second, this way turning it on and off would make sense and removes the need for duration mods on her. Else just keep it as it was before, with the faster animation you can just recast it if it runs out, duration builds get more energy efficiency and while for transient fortitude and fleeting expertise setups the changes are hardly noticeable(for me at least).
 

While I first was in the impression that WoF also boosts speed by showing the volt like effect, it just feels faster. Adding a 20-30% speed buff to ember while WoF is on would be fantastic for her run and gun game play and help to cover more space quicker to bring WoF to where it needs to be.
 

One more thing, the animation for casting WoF looks strange now, it starts at the speed it had before the changes and speeds up in the middle to much higher speed what looks strange. A overall faster animation at the same speed would be better.

My Ember looks like this: http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Ember_prime/t_30_023402302_2-3-10-4-7-5-5-6-5-6-0-5-8-8-5-14-1-5-16-4-5-55-2-3-411-5-10_6-11-14-5-55-5-2-6-16-11-411-8-5-5-4-9-8-5_0/en/1-0-4

Edited January 22, 2015 by Djego27

[ligonare]

I like the present Fireblast. It's WOF that i'm really disappointed with.

 

WOF dilemma is that it requires both duration and efficiency (toggle) to make it work. And for now, the increased duration overall actually drains more energy than a flat energy requirement.

 

My recommendation is that the duration does not affect the overall time WOF is in effect after toggle, but instead increased duration increases the frequency of explosions within the AoE of WOF. Maybe something like every 40% increase in duration adds one more column of fire per second (or unit of time) within the AoE to blast enemies while the WoF drains energy without a timer limit. Now THIS is WoF! (Laughs)

Edited January 22, 2015 by ligonare

[VampirePirate]

I never had or used Ember back when Overheat was an ability for her, so I know little about it.  Also I was still new to the game back then.  Can anyone tell me what that was about and how it was used or supposed to be used?

[Jax_Cavalera]

Worth noting that Mag Crush has no CC and you will be killed by enemies before you even finish the cast animation. At worst, WoF is just as bad...at best it can at least be used and stopped before you are killed from enemies recovering faster than your animation sequence.

[Tali]

i love the firewave they have added to fire blast

[Kaiser_Suoh]

I never had or used Ember back when Overheat was an ability for her, so I know little about it.  Also I was still new to the game back then.  Can anyone tell me what that was about and how it was used or supposed to be used?

Mogamu uses the third skill everytime he see a enemy :v

Edited January 22, 2015 by Kaiser_Suoh

[Phoenix86]

I never had or used Ember back when Overheat was an ability for her, so I know little about it.  Also I was still new to the game back then.  Can anyone tell me what that was about and how it was used or supposed to be used?

 

To sum it up Ember had Link/Eclipse (while in shadows) aka 90% DR

[(PSN)Bowjangelz]

While I'll have to wait for PS4 to get these changes to comment on the buffs, I have to voice disagreement with the idea of taking away accelerant, even if it would mean a buff to her other abilities. Accelerant is her best stay alive move since it can stun all enemies in range and give you a chance to get shields back up. Please don't take that away unless the buffs to her other abilities include a stun-everything-around-you sort of perk that is at least on par with how well accelerant works for this. 

Edited January 22, 2015 by (PS4)Bowjangelz

[geninrising]

I never had or used Ember back when Overheat was an ability for her, so I know little about it.  Also I was still new to the game back then.  Can anyone tell me what that was about and how it was used or supposed to be used?

Overheat was a defensive skill with a minute aoe fire damage. It gave Ember 95% damage reduction from all sources. Which was what consequently allowed her to be a close range fire frame.

[Kira_Akabane]

Pertaining to replicating arson fire wall, ember's doesnt knock down target but instead knocks back targets as if they had walked into a booben bounce pad.

Its a world of difference when enemies fall flat to the face versus being pushed backward while still shooting.

 

On void runs and on corpus/grineer i use it to knock down everything in the area and go to town with melee, so the wall does knock them down, maybe the bounce back is the only effect near the edge of its range? Something like how zephyrs 3rd skill is split into 2 separate parts/effects based on the shield range.

 

Edit-Seems both the bounce back and the knockdown aren't guaranteed, started noticing enemies walking right through it or just not affected by either....

Edited January 22, 2015 by Kira_Akabane

[geninrising]

While I'll have to wait for PS4 to get these changes to comment on the buffs, I have to voice disagreement with taking away accelerant even if it would mean a buff to her other abilities. Accelerant is her best stay alive move since it can stun all enemies in range and give you a chance to get shields back up. Please don't take that away unless the buffs to her other abilities include some sort of stun-everything-around-you sort of perk that is at least on par with how well accelerant works for this. 

I agree and feel like the best possible move would be to remove Fire Blast. Bring back old Overheat(hard capping it at 50% DR) and remove WoF duration=Ember rising from the ashes.