About Ability Augments Like Smite Infusion And Self-Buffs.

[Kinperor]

(Despite referring only to Smite Infusion since it is the mod I tested, my post applies to all similar augments) 

 

I've been playing with Smite Infusion for quite a while now, and I feel like the bonus damage to teammates doesn't feel rewarding enough. 

 

Now don't get me wrong, Smite Infusion can make quite a difference on lower levels with enough strenght. But one of the thing that I noticed repeatedly is that my teammates have at best a mildly good impression of me trying to buff them 24/7, whatever missions we are in. 

 

With the importance of giving up a mod slot solely for the buff, I feel like the mod ought to do a little bit more for the user than empowering some other players who might or might not appreciate the extra damage.

 

Keeping in mind the objective of augments mods (IE not straight and mindless buffs, save for exceptions), I think a good way to make the mod more rewarding is to give the caster 33% of the buff value per cast on an ally. For instance, if I give my Kubrow and my teammate a buff, I have 66% worth of Smite Infusion bonus damage (82.5% per default at max rank). If I cast Smite Infusion 4 times, I get 133% of the bonus damage (166.5% per default at max rank). The reason it is split at a third of the buff is to add an incentive to actually cast the ability on a teammate more than once, as opposed to casting it once and calling it a day. 

 

With this mod being potentially super OP (IE casting the ability on like 8 allies, NPC or Tenno), a cap might be required.

 

-----

 

TL;DR:

 

• Smite Infusion and Co's benefits are too indirect for the caster.
  
• The user should feel some practical benefit from being a good support. 
  
• The mod should still encourage teamplay. 
  
• Considering all the above, every cast should grant the user a fraction of the damage buff. Continuous team buffing is rewarded with a buff to himself. 
  
• A cap might be required for balance reasons (since it's possible to get a LOT of possible recipients for the buff).

 

 

That is all, thank you for reading. Feel free to comment and discuss. 

[VoidPunch]

I would love this. One of the main reasons I don't use these team buffs is because your team (more so with randoms) have no idea that you are about to buff them and then they randomly get a new or changed/combined elemental damage on their attacks that they did not account for or did not want. I like playing Trinity and Oberon as support frames and Hydroid's healing puddle augment is really nice and I believe these all work because you not only help out your team mates but also yourself too which is what I think these need. +1

[egregiousRac]

I find that they are extremely uninteresting augments and no matter how strong they become, there still could have been way cooler things done to those abilities.

 

One thing to note is that the buffs of the elemental augment mods stack multiplicatively. If you put three on one person the damage that they will deal is utterly absurd.

[-FV-Metheria]

Smite Infusion you may find will be useful in the void for a teamates build designed to kill bombards (Radiation). 

[taiiat]

i feel like we can find useful things for the Caster of these Team Buffs (more like giant DPS Multipliers, totally needed those, heh) that isn't just more Damage for you.

 

i'm sure there's plenty of other things we can do that isn't just more Damage.

[Kinperor]

I find that they are extremely uninteresting augments and no matter how strong they become, there still could have been way cooler things done to those abilities.

 

One thing to note is that the buffs of the elemental augment mods stack multiplicatively. If you put three on one person the damage that they will deal is utterly absurd.

 

I find them interesting because they get me to do things beyond "shoot the enemies" in survivals. Buffing Tennos is a more challenging task than you might expect when they run around wildly. 

 

Smite Infusion you may find will be useful in the void for a teamates build designed to kill bombards (Radiation). 

 

Yes, that is where I bring it most often. I don't see however how that relates to the subject of this specific thread. 

 

i feel like we can find useful things for the Caster of these Team Buffs (more like giant DPS Multipliers, totally needed those, heh) that isn't just more Damage for you.

 

i'm sure there's plenty of other things we can do that isn't just more Damage.

 

I'm not entirely sure what else they can be for. "First" powers are not typically very complex in nature, I don't really see a reason to give them augments that are more complex or "special" than the base skill we have. With that said, I am not against more varied augments, but I think the ones we have right now fill a niche that is legitimate in the game and gets me to pay more attention to my teammates beyond "Are they alive [Y/N]".

[egregiousRac]

I find them interesting because they get me to do things beyond "shoot the enemies" in survivals. Buffing Tennos is a more challenging task than you might expect when they run around wildly. 

 

Smite isn't too bad, but trying to use the Fireball or Freeze augments is just painful.

 

Honestly, I would find them more interesting if they gave a high chance to proc the element on top of the weapons standard procs. Something like a 50% proc chance for the element in question. This would allow players to actually see the augment doing things and would make them appreciate being buffed more.

Edited January 26, 2015 by egregiousRac

[taiiat]

I'm not entirely sure what else they can be for. "First" powers are not typically very complex in nature, I don't really see a reason to give them augments that are more complex or "special" than the base skill we have. With that said, I am not against more varied augments, but I think the ones we have right now fill a niche that is legitimate in the game and gets me to pay more attention to my teammates beyond "Are they alive [Y/N]".

i'm not sure if you basically just said 'Slot 1 Abilities can and only should be lots of DPS'.

 

as for 'complexity', Augments take a Mod Slot. if you want to convince Players to Equip them, they need to compete against a LOT of other Mods.

Augments therefore have the highest call for complexity of any Mods in the game. they aren't Stat boosts or modifications, yet they still need to complete against those kinds of things for use.

 

because who is going to Equip the.... Fire Blast Augment over.... most other Mods?

few, if any Players.

[MechaKnight]

I just had a feeling I'd see a topic like this eventually. The first ability buff augments are pretty powerful, but most players wouldn't want to equip them because the lack of teamwork oriented gameplay and lack of team mindset in players means most players don't stand still to let teammates buff them, which decreases the already small incentive to equip a mod purely meant to benefit other players, not yourself.

 

This augment is very powerful, due to the nature of teamwork and positive duration multiplier involved. Some other augments are potentially strong, but are gated by duration, which is the most neglected stat on any warframe expected to primarily deal damage. The way I see it, augments like these are just DE's way of catering to a more structured form of player teams which barely exists in Warframe. Players in this game do not work together often to a degree where buffing teammates is expected, and duration is considered that stat you usually prefer to have less of if power strength does anything for the warframe in question. It's as if DE is catering to a player they want playing their game, but barely exists in the majority audience of Warframe.

 

In short, this heavily teamwork oriented mechanic is better suited for another game with another audience of players. Warframe's audience is mostly everyone for themselves, with the exception of resurrection. It's okay to give some perk to the player in question to justify their role in helping others. As for those less favorable augments relying on duration or taking up a slot for something more reliable, just give the players more offense (damage, debuff, or stun) and balance this all out when the future steamroll rebalance arrives.

Edited January 26, 2015 by MechaKnight

[Kinperor]

Smite isn't too bad, but trying to use the Fireball or Freeze augments is just painful.

 

Honestly, I would find them more interesting if they gave a high chance to proc the element on top of the weapons standard procs. Something like a 50% proc chance for the element in question. This would allow players to actually see the augment doing things and would make them appreciate being buffed more.

 

As much as I'd want them too, procs aren't really relevant in the current meta-game, save maybe for lower-levels. Procs would first need some tweaks to make them relevant at all power level. That or rebalance the whole game, which isn't that far-fetched if DE really wants to do the "quality" year.  

 

i'm not sure if you basically just said 'Slot 1 Abilities can and only should be lots of DPS'.

 

as for 'complexity', Augments take a Mod Slot. if you want to convince Players to Equip them, they need to compete against a LOT of other Mods.

Augments therefore have the highest call for complexity of any Mods in the game. they aren't Stat boosts or modifications, yet they still need to complete against those kinds of things for use.

 

because who is going to Equip the.... Fire Blast Augment over.... most other Mods?

few, if any Players.

 

That's not what I said. What I said is that these mods are legitimate and that we can get new mods that are more varied than plain DPS. 

 

I already use these mods and consider they have a legitimate spot in a Warframe build.This thread is to highlight they could be a bit more competitive while still promoting teamwork, not to ask for new mods (new mods are welcomed by me, but it's not what the thread is about). 

 

I just had a feeling I'd see a topic like this eventually. The first ability buff augments are pretty powerful, but most players wouldn't want to equip them because the lack of teamwork oriented gameplay and lack of team mindset in players means most players don't stand still to let teammates buff them, which decreases the already small incentive to equip a mod purely meant to benefit other players, not yourself.

 

This augment is very powerful, due to the nature of teamwork and positive duration multiplier involved. Some other augments are potentially strong, but are gated by duration, which is the most neglected stat on any warframe expected to primarily deal damage. The way I see it, augments like these are just DE's way of catering to a more structured form of player teams which barely exists in Warframe. Players in this game do not work together often to a degree where buffing teammates is expected, and duration is considered that stat you usually prefer to have less of if power strength does anything for the warframe in question. It's as if DE is catering to a player they want playing their game, but barely exists in the majority audience of Warframe.

 

In short, this heavily teamwork oriented mechanic is better suited for another game with another audience of players. Warframe's audience is mostly everyone for themselves, with the exception of resurrection. It's okay to give some perk to the player in question to justify their role in helping others. As for those less favorable augments relying on duration or taking up a slot for something more reliable, just give the players more offense (damage, debuff, or stun) and balance this all out when the future steamroll rebalance arrives.

 

You might be surprised by the amount of players who actually form teams and make a plan beyond "go with pubbies and kill everyone". 

[taiiat]

You might be surprised by the amount of players who actually form teams and make a plan beyond "go with pubbies and kill everyone". 

i don't think he's entirely wrong either, though.

 

when i play Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer - Team Synergy is off the charts, even with random Players.

makes every moment much more enjoyable, because i know that the Players are working together, doing cool stuff that you normally can't do or do as well.

and then i look at the clock, and oshi- where'd the time go.

 

 

Warframe certainly doesn't have anywhere near that level of Team Synergy.

[Holeypaladin]

These augments are powerful, yes.  But most people aren't so altruistic as to sacrifice one of their mod slots for a power that only helps their allies while they gain no benefit from it.

 

They seek mostly to maximize their own personal utility, and if it helps the team too... then all the better.

[Kinperor]

i don't think he's entirely wrong either, though.

 

when i play Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer - Team Synergy is off the charts, even with random Players.

makes every moment much more enjoyable, because i know that the Players are working together, doing cool stuff that you normally can't do or do as well.

and then i look at the clock, and oshi- where'd the time go.

 

 

Warframe certainly doesn't have anywhere near that level of Team Synergy.

 

I haven't played Mass Effect 3 (Origin and botched ending? Blah), but I did play Monster Hunter Tri, and I can tell you the synergy in that game between hunters is just batS#&$ insane. I'd murder a puppy to have something like that in Warframe (OK, maybe not a puppy, maybe just a picture of a puppy). 

 

I don't know where I am going with this. Probably something about how Warframe is a completely different game where team-synergy is less prevalent but still present and we might see more in the future. 

[taiiat]

Probably something about how Warframe is a completely different game where team-synergy is less prevalent but still present and we might see more in the future. 

it's a Co-Op Game. if Players don't get anything (be it cool looking stuff, useful things, Et Cetera) for working together, they won't... Co-Op.

[geninrising]

Currently these are the problems: Difficult to utilize and only affect others.

 

Why not just apply the buff in an AOE and give said buff to the caster as well? After all, said caster gave up a potentially crucial mod slot in order to do so, might as well be worth it to HIM/HER as well as making it easier to use.

[egregiousRac]

As much as I'd want them too, procs aren't really relevant in the current meta-game, save maybe for lower-levels. Procs would first need some tweaks to make them relevant at all power level. That or rebalance the whole game, which isn't that far-fetched if DE really wants to do the "quality" year.  

 

I would argue that all of the elements that have augments have very useful procs at any level with the exception of toxic. Fire and electric are lovely stuns, ice is a good slow, and radiation is just crazy.

Edited January 27, 2015 by egregiousRac

[ZechsX18999]

Agreed, I never use augments that only benefit my teammates, especially on non-support frames like Ember. Why waste a slot to buff your teammates when you could use that slot to buff yourself? Support augments should be for support frames.