What Are The Orokin And The Sentients?

[Krion112]

-Snip-

I suppose the colonies under the control of the Orokin Empire could be called Orokin, but only if the colonies under the control of the Grineer Empire could be called Grineer. However, if you haven't already, look up the definition for 'Empire' and you'll see why neither the people now nor then can really be considered 'Orokin' or 'Grineer', but at the same time can be loosely addressed as such.

 

Also, Rhino Prime's codex reveals nothing of the sort; was the monstrosity a Warframe or a Tenno? Given that the scientist who had been working with the beast had no idea that the chamber they fled to contained the Zariman children who would become the Tenno, it'd be safe to assume he didn't know of the Zariman children, and therefore the monstrosity, which he himself had worked on, was merely a Warframe and not a Tenno.

 

One of the key things to remember is that the Tenno possess the power, not the Warframe, but the Warframe let's them make that power manifest in a controlled manner. In the case of Hayden Tenno, it was his Technocyte infestation that allowed him to shape his powers, but because the Tenno have Warframes that are made of the Technocyte, they don't require to be infected and likely aren't.

 

I digress, however, as we are here to discuss the Orokin and Sentients, not the Tenno.

 

Finally, the Infestation was used as a Bio-Weapon, as during the battle with Lephantis, Lotus informs us that it was created to fight in the Old War long ago, the Old War being the Sentient-Orokin War, thus suggesting that the Infested were used to fight the Sentients. However, I do believe some of the Infestation backfired on the Orokin, especially apparent due to the Orokin Derelicts.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Krion112

[OniDax]

I suppose the colonies under the control of the Orokin Empire could be called Orokin, but only if the colonies under the control of the Grineer Empire could be called Grineer. However, if you haven't already, look up the definition for 'Empire' and you'll see why neither the people now nor then can really be considered 'Orokin' or 'Grineer', but at the same time can be loosely addressed as such.

 

Also, Rhino Prime's codex reveals nothing of the sort; was the monstrosity a Warframe or a Tenno? Given that the scientist who had been working with the beast had no idea that the chamber they fled to contained the Zariman children who would become the Tenno, it'd be safe to assume he didn't know of the Zariman children, and therefore the monstrosity, which he himself had worked on, was merely a Warframe and not a Tenno.

 

One of the key things to remember is that the Tenno possess the power, not the Warframe, but the Warframe let's them make that power manifest in a controlled manner. In the case of Hayden Tenno, it was his Technocyte infestation that allowed him to shape his powers, but because the Tenno have Warframes that are made of the Technocyte, they don't require to be infected and likely aren't.

 

I digress, however, as we are here to discuss the Orokin and Sentients, not the Tenno.

 

Finally, the Infestation was used as a Bio-Weapon, as during the battle with Lephantis, Lotus informs us that it was created to fight in the Old War long ago, the Old War being the Sentient-Orokin War, thus suggesting that the Infested were used to fight the Sentients. However, I do believe some of the Infestation backfired on the Orokin, especially apparent due to the Orokin Derelicts.

 

That monster/beast was Rhino, the Tenno. The Tenno possess the power. The Warframe merely allows the Tenno to use it. Also, there is nothing that says the Warframes are Technocyte. As well, the narrator of Rhino Prime's Codex entry says he had worked on some like the beast. He doesn't work on the beast. And why does he say that? Because he's still thinking that the beast is one of the Infested that he has "crafted and rejected numerous times". Davis recognizes, however, that the beast isn't one of the Infested, but one of the Zariman children. That's the significance of Rhino Prime's Codex entry. You have to remember, the point of these Warframe entries isn't just to show the story. It shows 1) something about that particular Tenno who wears the Warframe, and 2) a general history of how the Tenno came to be. Excalibur Prime's Codex entry talks about Excalibur (he was the first Warframe/Tenno to wear a Warframe), Ember burned Kaleen even as a child, before she was ever in a Warframe, 3) Mag Prime interacted with regular Orokin soldiers, wearing an archwing, 4) Rhino Prime, even before he wears a Warframe, demonstrates both Iron Skin and Rhino Charge.

 

The significance of Excalibur Prime's Codex entry is why the Tenno were named Tenno, put into Warframes, and given gun and blade. The significance of Ember Prime's Codex page is to reveal how the Tenno got their powers, and where they came from (they were just ordinary kids), and how the Void, not the Warframes, gave them their powers. The significance of Mag Prime's Codex page is how the Tenno were perceived by regular soldiers, and how they came to be revered by some. The significance of Stalker's Codex entry is how the Orokin were defeated, why the Tenno are called Betrayers by the Corpus, and why the Stalker does what he does. The significance of Rhino Prime's Codex entry is what the Orokin did with those kids that were from the Zariman. They were creating and experimenting with Technocyte, creating the Infested and testing it on the Tenno (because they knew how it infected people and they knew that Technocyte could channel energy), seeing how the Void-twisted Tenno would respond to it, or how the Technocyte would respond to them. That is the significance of these codex entries. They are absolutely pointless without the recognition that each of these Codex entries talks about the person to which that Codex entry belongs. There is no other conclusion but that Rhino Prime's Codex entry is talking about Rhino Prime, just like Excalibur Prime's, Ember Prime's, Stalker's, and Mag Prime's Codex entries are talking about them.

 

So this is what the Orokin were doing with the Tenno. I am 100% certain of this because it is literally the only way to interpret these Codex entries. When you recognize what the "glinting like steel, flashing red" is, what the "skin changed, flowing like mercury" is, what the "surge" is, what the significance of the beast stopping, with self-recognition, at the door to the storage room where the Zariman kids are being stored, THEN you understand the picture these Codex entries are painting:

 

The Tenno were put on a military ship called the Zariman, sent into the Void and twisted by it, investigated to see what became of them, taken and put in storage, experimented upon with Technocyte as it was being developed and made into the Infested, put on storage until they would be made useful, taken out of storage during the Orokin emperors' time of need during the Sentient war, given Warframes, guns, and blades, turned into warriors with an artificial, constructed warrior heritage and culture, named Tenno, and sent to fight the Sentients, being viewed by regular soldiers as monsters and directed to missions by the Lotus. Beating the Sentients, they are celebrated at Terminus (and probably across the galaxy since the naga drums rang out across the galaxy), directed by the Lotus to kill the Orokin emperors and bring down the Empire because the system, with the defeat of the Sentients, was out of balance (this is from datamined text), told to sleep by the Lotus, and reawakened because the system is again out of balance with the growth of the Grineer.

 

All of this is based on the current lore that is in the game. There is lore in this game, but it's not influencing content or art styles, and it's not being overtly pieced together by the devs. They need to, because people here aren't piecing these things together. There is allusion in the Codex entries that reveal the history, but most aren't able to actually comprehend it and see it, so it makes these entries pointless if most people can't actually understand them. They need to be more straightforward, so that people can understand them, so that they aren't so cryptic.

 

Also, another note: Not all Warframes were Prime during that time, and I say that because Mirage was lost during the Orokin-Sentient war, and that Warframe isn't Prime. So the Orokin obviously made gold-laced ones, and then reproduced non-gold versions. As well, we clearly see the Tenno having their own personality and abilities outside of their Warframes, so I'd actually suggest (here starts the speculation, as I certainly believe that what I've typed in the previous paragraphs is the story) that the Tenno are cloned, using Orokin cloning technology (that the Grineer later find and use. It's probably damaged, and they try to repair it, hence their genetic degradation). I would also imagine that being able to switch frames is merely a gameplay mechanic meant to give the players freedom, as what the devs have demonstrated through the lore is that the abilities are tied to the Tenno, not to the Warframes themselves, and that the Warframes merely channel that power and allow the Tenno to control their inherent, Void-given abilities. This also explains why the names of the Warframes are also used as the names of the Tenno themselves - they are known by their warframes such that the name of the Warframe is also the name of the Tenno who wears the Warframe.

 

All of this is based on critical analysis of the Codex. It's the only thing that links all of the Codex pages together in a way that doesn't contradict other lore.

[iuki.]

I wish i could click a link on WF main page that shows me stuff like this as official information...hum.

[OniDax]

I wish i could click a link on WF main page that shows me stuff like this as official information...hum.

 

Yeah, me too. The thing is, there's actually a good bit of lore in the game, it's just too cryptic for most people because they aren't used to doing that sort of critical literary analysis, imo.

Edited January 30, 2015 by AntoineFlemming

[iuki.]

I think it was a bunch of talented programmers/artists who got together to make a shooter how they thought it should be done; lots of killing with over the top matrix/ninja/anime action. They then make three faction motifs and designed 'tenno' as the player character....it all went from there. Maybe?

 

They just need to hire a writer or talented person to mesh it all together into a coherent story with a proper time line. With no time line, it's all up in the air imo. Hope this year brings a story. Either hire the help or get a fan to do it, then stamp it official. Pwetty prease?

 

Sorry to rant lol, please continue being creative. Ty!

Edited January 30, 2015 by fizbit

[SilentMobius]

That monster/beast was Rhino, the Tenno. The Tenno possess the power. The Warframe merely allows the Tenno to use it. Also, there is nothing that says the Warframes are Technocyte. As well, the narrator of Rhino Prime's Codex entry says he had worked on some like the beast. He doesn't work on the beast. And why does he say that? Because he's still thinking that the beast is one of the Infested that he has "crafted and rejected numerous times". Davis recognizes, however, that the beast isn't one of the Infested, but one of the Zariman children. That's the significance of Rhino Prime's Codex entry.

 

This is all assumption and your comment that the unnamed scientist didn't work on the beast is far from accurate.

Also, there is nothing that says that the Tenno are Technocyte infected while the Warframes _use technocyte materials to build them_ in the game! (Plastids, Mutagenic, Samples, Nanospores. You can't get much more definitive than that)

 

 I have seen _this_ monster before. I have cut _its_ shell and eviscerated _its_ brothers. I have given _it_ pain and measured _its_ response. I have crafted then rejected countless like it

 

The unnamed scientist only uses 'like' in relation to those rejected,

 

There is _nothing_ that suggests the beast is comprised of a Zariman child. When the much more simple evaluation can be made that the beast is one of the creatures that the unnamed scientist worked on (as explicitly specified in the text) and Davis _freed_ the creature to led it to the room holding the children because Davis believed something specific would happen. An interaction between the two. Which is interesting because we have two entities for consideration The Tenno and the Warframe and in the Rhino Prime entry we have two entities, the (possibly technocyte) Beast which exhibits abilities that ended up in the Rhino Warframe and the Zariman children who were exposed to the void... Beast and Children... Warframe and Tenno.

 

Your evaluation is possible but IMHO currently unsupported, unlikely. and _far_ from definitive.

 

So this is what the Orokin were doing with the Tenno. I am 100% certain of this because it is literally the only way to interpret these Codex entries.

 

It really _realy_ isn't and even saying that is really short-sighted.

Edited January 30, 2015 by SilentMobius

[Blakrana]

Davis _freed_ the creature to lead it to the room holding the children because Davis believed something specific would happen. An interaction between the two. Which is interesting because we have two entities for consideration The Tenno and the Warframe and in the Rhino Prime entry we have two entities, the (possibly technocyte) Beast which exhibits abilities that ended up in the Rhino Warframe and the Zariman children who were exposed to the void... Beast and Children... Warframe and Tenno.

 

Which begs an interesting question; what insane muse whispered the idea in Davis' ear to let Proto-Rhino run around to hopefully get into 'range' of the Zariman victims?

 

Say what one will but that man is a very big question mark unless they've got a really, really good bit of unknown to us information to base their hypothesis on.

 

I mean, 'Zariman Proximity' as I call it is a very...severe case of 'If this doesn't work we're dead'. Considering Davis is never fazed at all, it implies he had reason to believe that it would work. Potentially implying he has some source of something similar happening...or the man is an extremely gifted mad scientist willing to risk everything on a theory. Which takes a certain special disregard for personal safety you can't help but admire.

[SilentMobius]

Which begs an interesting question; what insane muse whispered the idea in Davis' ear to let Proto-Rhino run around to hopefully get into 'range' of the Zariman victims?

 

Say what one will but that man is a very big question mark unless they've got a really, really good bit of unknown to us information to base their hypothesis on.

 

I mean, 'Zariman Proximity' as I call it is a very...severe case of 'If this doesn't work we're dead'. Considering Davis is never fazed at all, it implies he had reason to believe that it would work. Potentially implying he has some source of something similar happening...or the man is an extremely gifted mad scientist willing to risk everything on a theory. Which takes a certain special disregard for personal safety you can't help but admire.

 

Absolutely. Given what was said I think that the Zariman children were very much a no-go area. Early experimentation showed that the children were volatile and capable of abilities that were difficult to defend against (Ember codex) so they were locked away. Davis had somehow gotten hold of the early test notes or similar and had pieced something together perhaps from day-to-day reports from people near the cell, but there are many options or routes he could have used to get the information to form his hypothesis.

 

But yes, he must have been either very desperate, frustrated or insane to do what he did.

 

Given how Kaleen was stonewalled by her interviewer it seems that compartmentalization, secrets and protocol run rampant through the military/meta-military. It's a common enough trope of the military scientist pushed to produce results but not given the 'clearance' to find out enough to truly innovate who breaks the rules to get the 'big picture' and then goes 'too far'

Edited January 30, 2015 by SilentMobius

[Blakrana]

It certainly is an interesting line of inquiry.

 

After all, if this...random guy is able to piece this together...that's incredibly shoddy security or he was really good at eavesdropping without being noticed. And if someone else was tipping him off, well, that's just terrifying.

 

I mean, taking your Futurist enclave line, what if an offshoot of them was working in the shadows of the Empire to bring about other things? And one of these gave Davis the idea? Hell, what if the man got hypnotised or had the information just 'implanted'?

 

Hypothetical entirely but not unheard of in sci-fi.

[Morec0]

My take on the "Cold and Gold Emperors" (and yeah, STILL say they're human):

 

Cold - Distant, unfeeling, and regal, the classic stiff-lipped Emperor trope.

 

Gold - Wealthy beyond imagination, or maybe even decked out in golden clothing.

 

 

"Breathless" - Ever had a moment where you were so proud or overjoyed that your breath would catch in your throat? That you'd just forget to breathe for a moment? If the Orokin were typically as distant and unfeeling as my reading of "cold" suggests, it would make all the more sense that he would take note of it.

 

Why would they be proud or overjoyed? Because they just won the war - they beat the Sentients and were on the verge of expanding their empire to an entirely new system: the one the Sentients had called home.

[SilentMobius]

My take on the "Cold and Gold Emperors" (and yeah, STILL say they're human):

 

Cold - Distant, unfeeling, and regal, the classic stiff-lipped Emperor trope.

 

Gold - Wealthy beyond imagination, or maybe even decked out in golden clothing.

 

"Breathless" - Ever had a moment where you were so proud or overjoyed that your breath would catch in your throat? That you'd just forget to breathe for a moment? If the Orokin were typically as distant and unfeeling as my reading of "cold" suggests, it would make all the more sense that he would take note of it.

 

Why would they be proud or overjoyed? Because they just won the war - they beat the Sentients and were on the verge of expanding their empire to an entirely new system: the one the Sentients had called home.

 

I think all of that is true, but the way the Stalker codex is written makes me think that each of those terms is doing double duty. I think it's deliberately literal and emotional.

[arch111]

This thread is EXACTLY why we need cold hard, stone-tablets-on-the-Mountain FACTS.

I have been at this bizarre theory-tossing game so many times I am beginning to feel like Im tom cruise in that aliens movie.

You could ALL be in the right.

What REALLY bothers me is that the timeline feels so small. We get no sense of scale at all, just regular people doing stuff.

And then - boom. War. Prime warframes. Solar Rails. Emperors.

Remember the guy in Mag Prime Codex?

He said Tenno were ghosts, "propaganda" from the Void Era.

Dont you think it sounds an awfoul lot like the Tenno were active and about and won the Emperors their titles?

Very black ops of course, and since the soldier almost draws his gun the stories of the Tenno must have been the stuff of nightmares.

[SilentMobius]

Remember the guy in Mag Prime Codex?

He said Tenno were ghosts, "propaganda" from the Void Era.

Dont you think it sounds an awfoul lot like the Tenno were active and about and won the Emperors their titles?

 

Not really, I just think that the Zariman incident happened early on, probably during the 'Void Era' as mentioned int he Mag prime Codex, the survivors were held in stasis for a _long_ time.When (at least some of) the Tenno were revealed to be those forgotten survivors people viewed them a 'ghosts' due to coming back from a void misjump (the public not being aware that it was most likely a deliberate misjump) being hidden for so long, and simply still being alive after so long.

 

Also people would most likely never see them outside of their Armour and even then only in near-hopeless military situations.