Stealth Feedback & Suggestions Thread

[Eternum]

We should have a enemy radar so we could know where the enemy are

[Caine]

You can always get the enemy radar artifact

[Chakra]

Its like stalking more than stealth. if the enemy is circling i get to enjoy slowly crouch walking behind objects until that great moment of fatality.

[franz]

btw guys, stealth challenge was added!

I'm 100% sure I've had this challenge a lot of times before update 7, even if I thought it was impossible.

To OP: I think many of your suggestions go into the direction of making Warframe into a different game, Metal Gear in space. Improved stealth would be fun, but that can be achieved without changing the nature of the game.

A serious stealth gameplay would require a rework in the challenge level or it would just be pointless: why sneak when I can take armies of them head on with little to no risk? They would have to make all enemies more dangerous, and that would suck for non-stealth oriented players/weapons/warframes.

If you feel they should give extra rewards to a gameplay style you like, then they should add many more for other "challenges", for example only using melee, or never missing a shot, never using powers, all examples of "challenges" players can attempt for their own amusement.

I think stealth would be almost impossible in the average 4 players game with little to no communication, the only thing I can see being useful is an improved detection/backstab system, so for example if the enemies are attacking a teammate while you manage to stay hidden you can sneak behind them for the backstab. On the other hand the minimap with viewcones or "alert" message is pointless, because it would always show "alert" :)

Stealth could be viable for soloing high level missions though, but that would be its own reward, no need for extra xp.

As a final note, bonus XP is not a great incentive, because eventually you will reach level 30. So before 30 stealth killing everything would be the best choice XP-wise, after 30 it would just be "masochism" again.

TL,DR: improve stealth, don't change the game.

[RespawningJesus]

The game needs to be able to tell the player that they are hidden or when they have been dectected. It would also be cool to see your tenno move differently while in stealth mode, especially when they are approaching/is around enemies.

[indio68]

yea quote all...stealth mode in actual way is useless...but whn u say that in Stealth mode u can kill all enemies..i answer wtf?? my skill invisible lasts fior a couple of second that i barely kill someone...

but for the rest of your idea i cn only say yes to all!! but this will be a lotm of work...but instead adding new frames, will be much better improve and correct the old one....adding true abilites that work and correct gameplay lacks , like you and others reported...improve what we have and fix the issues before adding new characters!!n sry bad english

[PatiqForLife]

guys this is a bug I found stealth killing a lvl 28 corpus with my lvl 9 fangs.

when I used my stealth attack he had 2/3 of his hp left and didn't react even though 2 sec ago I was stabbing him after 3 stab attacks I killed him without getting alerted and I don't know if this is supposed to happen but I can't back-stab corpus walkers :/

[_Chaser]

sorry for being away for so long, job is job.

in any case AI spot you very eay on alerted state even if they are looking at you indirectly

stealth kills seems to trigger alert if there are enemies nearby

[Themisomega]

Please do not list powers as mods, the first thing i did was that i fused my shock and overload with speed and now i only have speed and shield on my volt. Please some kind of reset.

[Dscar]

I Agree! The current "stealth" system is poor at best (Though it's still in beta :P). Warframes does a very good job of making you feel like some cool badass ninja/ warrior with all the wall running and fighting styles/ techniques.

I think they need to make stealth just as "cool". Maybe add different stealth finishing animations. Also I've noticed every enemy seems to be patrolling. I think if they added in scripted events like for example like 2 guards talking while on duty, or having an argument and then one walks off and starts his patrol this would make you feel like your actually killing and enemy race of people, not just mindless drones (even if that's what they are). As mentioned all the enemies pretty much just wander around aimlessly waiting for you to pop up at which point they spawn out of every nook and cranny to come give you a hug (infected :S). Giving the enemies "something to do" while waiting for contact would make the game so much more believeable and every mission would appear ever so slightly different.

BUT this is probably my best idea (i think).

Don't forget it's a cooperatively designed game. So imagine making scripts which required you and you team to work together. Example: one of you gets caught in a trap while running down a hallway. Team members have to hack a terminal to get you out. Or you could work together to take out targets (stealth). Maybe by making one player distract guards by briefly appearing just out of LOS (they enter the 'curious' awareness state) and they investigate while their team members take them out. OR you could design scripts where if one of you wants to go all gun crazy and the other wants to play stealth. Introduce an aggro system in which all the enemies are being drawn to the gun nut and they stealth guy can sneak around accomplish missions and what not. You could then make this a mission with one lot of players as the gun nuts, and the others as the stealth. Maybe introduce a mission where a place is too heavily guarded so some of the players need to draw away attention so a team mate can sneak in and download some data!

Wow! I'm going crazy. These ideas just keep coming! I'll stop now. sorry. Must say though they've done such a good job with this game so far!!

[Mzungu]

should make the poison Warframe stealth too!

[MEsoJD]

I was doing pretty on one map and an enemy detected me even though I was behind a wall... Shame because the bow is so much fun to use.

[Neyra]

Stealth is my favourite play style, but in Warframe it is not fully functional yet. It will be good if they add some sealth features like: DEATH FROM ABOVE TAKEDOWN (you jump on higher ground and wait to enemy approach below and than jump down and eliminate him, that will make Super jump abillity of Excalibur more usefull).

[iDark]

Great ideas

[Demographics]

This isn't a stealth game in its current incarnation, period.

Compare it to any game where either direct combat or stealth are true options, anywhere from Metal Gear Solid to the more recent Dishonored, and you'll see that in those games, the combat and the stealth were created side-by-side, to be compatible and interactive with one another and the overall design of the game, and even the levels themselves.

I really like the combat in warframe, for the most part, so that's not part of the problem in my eyes. However, this game was not, on a fundamental level, designed to accommodate stealth gameplay; instead, the vestigal stealth elements included are basically just tacked on for effect. I'll number the main problems with the stealth from here inward:

1. Level design.

Levels don't have catwalks and "hidden" paths for warframes to take to ambush foes or sneak past dense groups, which are themselves a huge problem I'll mention in a moment. But essentially these aren't levels which have a variety of paths "through" them, rather they are open areas that you can free-roam and battle in; again. that's great, but it's not conducive to a stealth approach.

2. NPC patrolling:

Enemy patrol pathing is an absolutely critical part of any stealth game, and as mentioned, it's terrible here. Enemies just wander around somewhat unpredictably and often in groups which are too large, sometimes literally with their faces pressed into the back of the comrade ahead of them. How, exactly, can you practice stealth against enemies like that? You can use certain abilities to clear them out, but not without causing enough sound to alert everyone on the ship/asteroid/winterland.

Players need to be able to QUICKLY discern patrol paths and use this to defeat them, ESPECIALLY in a game where it's random each time and you can't restart the level or from a checkpoint to "try again" if you screw up.

3. Completion of stealth elements:

As mentioned, the stealth elements in the game are incomplete and inadequate. That doesn't work in stealth games; the mechanics need to be as close to flawless as possible so that players can make smart decisions which actually pay off in predictable ways, otherwise the whole substance of a stealth game, and the appeal, falls away. So unless things like alerting foes, the alarm system, and some more established concept of "noise" and the noise footsteps/skills/gunfire/etc causes and how far the sound travels (basically all these things and more that make stealth games successful) are implemented, then any superficial effort to improve it are wastes of time.

The reward for stealth shines the most for solo play, so here's why there is already a huge reward: The game has been very unbalanced in terms of difficulty lately, for solo players worst of all. Stealth gives solo players a way to still tackle the game and have fun if the devs can implement it.

Sorry if that was TL;DR; here's a summary: The problems with stealth are currently too fundamental and deep to be quick-fixed, and currently stealth has no purpose in this game other than to reward a very lucky player on a very lucky run. But if ACTUAL STEALTH can be implemented, which would be hard, but worthwhile, then the game would be better off.

[ConnieMnemonic]

I approve of this thread.

Also, I find it really annoying when I'm spotted, say, sticking my head out from one end of a long piece of cover, and when I duck down and crouch-walk to the other end of the cover, my foes aim follows me like he has x-ray vision. Enemies are WAY too omniscient. If I move between areas of cover without being seen, enemies should keep investigating my last known location, rather than psychically knowing where I've moved too.

This omniscience makes stealth considering less realistic and considerably less viable a path.

[LantisMcKavanagh]

I think that these suggestions are partly nice, but partly would make teh game too easy to go stealthy at.

Stealth skills to one shot unaware enemies would be cheap, one shotting should be up close and personal.

So i'd keep it as it is, backstabs mostly. Maybe add a prompt for sneak attacks from down under or up above too, that would rock. If every Warframe would have stealth skills, 'frames like ASH would become pretty useless.

More silent weapons would be cool, but none of those should have a high damage output or fast fire rates, so that they'd be harder to play with as you get spotted. The PARIS is a good example of taht. Slow shooting rates, that makes it pretty hard to use when the enemies SWARM you after spotting.

The way the AI behaves with its paths is nice actually, forces you to be on your toes at all times. They never really turn on their toes and spot you, but when they stop, and you don't know when they will, they will take very random directions. I think that adds to the adrenalyne, i'd not touch that.

[kaizoku222]

I 150% disagree about stealth needing to break if you attack. If that change is made, and entire build becomes impossible. In a game where mobs at the high end have a stupid amount of HP, getting 1 stealth hit only works with a small number of melee weapons. Stealth should also drop awareness entirely and give access to the stealth/backstab attack. This would give stealth frames/frames with invis the viability of building crit damage on fast hitting weapons with small animations, they could still use the execute attack, andt hey could still get damage done while stealth instead of having to spam charge attack.

This should be true for all invis, including sentinel invis. Sentinels also need to invis whenever the player goes invis as well. This really wouldn't be OP and stealth/invis warframes deserve as much killing power as a frame specced entirely for out and out fighting.

[RyanGo]

I wasn't able to read all 11 pages of this thread (only the last one), but here are my 2 cents...

1. I think the stealth melee option should have a slightly larger radius/range. When you're trying to stealth kill somebody walking you have to be REALLY REALLY careful that you get to JUST the right distance to melee. Too far and you just scratch him with a normal attack. Too close and you might bump in to him and alert him. Also there's not really a point to stealth melee if it doesn't kill them (ie higher level troops)

2. Perhaps more options with the alert panels? so you're allowed a slight chance to save your stealth if someone's alerted by killing them before they can reach a panel. But once they've alerted the base, it's all over. My 2 solutions:

(1) destroy the panel. before they can get to it, or perhaps before you've been discovered, perhaps we could have the option to destroy the panel or disable it. The problem with this is that if someone else in another room locks the place down you'll be sorta trapped :| so perhaps there's a way to fix it after destroying it.

(2) disable the alarm by hacking the panel again. after they've hit the switch, it'd be interesting if we could re-hack the panel (after guards in the immediate area have been silenced) so that a new announcement would come up saying something like "the threat has been neutralized, continue about your business" *alarms disabled* The problem with THIS is that after doing it so many times, you must have the most gullible guards in the solar system (granted, grineer don't seem too bright). maybe then, you can only disable alarms once or twice.

[tigergun2]

I would also like to add that the shade sentinel which is ment for stealth is not helpful. When it makes you invisable it stays the same and the enemy will be alerted and if your the Loki going invisable it does not and blows your cover.

[DeathsReap3rX]

I would like to suggest a few things towards stealth gameplay too.

First, I think, to atleast make it stealth friendly, have it so if your detected, then the whole run your not going to be known exxactly where u are by everyone, but instead you would just be kown in 2-3 segments of the area. That way, if you completly balls up in the beggining, you wont need to revert to "Guns blazing" the whole run through.

Second, I think, it would be really helpfull, and also nice, if theres a sort of cover mechanic. That way, you would know 100% that you wont be seen by an enemy unless they are looking directly at u, or if your looking from outside your cover. It would also give alot more possibilities, to regular gameplay. The sort of cover Im talking about is, you can use almost anything as cover (Like in Ghost Recon Online). You press, lets say "Q" or something near a place where you can use cover, and you get into cover. (Like in Ghost Recon Online). The cover system in that game is imensely good, and it would make the game really nice. (Now Im not saying, copy like i guess "Code for Code?" of the cover system in GRO but adapt something similar to it.

Third. Attachments and Weapon Customization. Now, dont go around saying, oh thats like copying GRO or COD or any of those (overated or non-overated) fps games, (I dont even like CoD that much tbh), but lots of games now days have attachment systems. Why? Because they really do work. Like really. They work and people enjoy using them. The Weapon Customization in this game is with mods, but Im talking, customization with things like buying or hell, maybe even making blueprints for silencers and then blueprints for weapons with silencers. That would actually be unique. And IT WILL WORK.

Hope to see better stealth in the next update!

Cheers!

Also, it would be nice if the "Press E to Stealth kill" (Something like that, you know the popup that comes when u execute an enemy?) If that just has a bit longer range, because I find that I'm like bumping into every single person when I try and do it, just asking for a bit of a longer range. Thanks.

Edited March 28, 2013 by DeathsReap3rX

[Mehlo]

I think this one is pretty obvious and probably mentioned, but with the sentinel, when i go invisible, or even when they make me invisible, it's not really that usefull when they stay in sight and get me detected.

[Quiver]

I'd like to suggest the ability of DISABLING LOCKDOWN ALARMS so enemies won't be able to set it off. Or is it already implemented?

[Xenogear]

So i just came across this thread! and here is my two cents and some others feedback on stealth based missions if anyones interested i put it on the Map/Levels forum

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/19618-assassination-missions-stealth-required/

[nohwone]

well all my ideas have been taken, though i agree with ronyn the most though i am thinking taht the extra XP for getting stealth kills shouldnt be too much, i mean, what if there are some players who are really used to stealth play and manage to complete a run not getting detected.

also if ash is supposed to be a stealth type then he jumps down to reach an enemy he shouldnt make any noise since he is a stealth type.