Stealth Feedback & Suggestions Thread

[PIzzazza]

err okay, let me elaborate...

being able to turn alarm off means that it can be activated again.

grineer reaction on alarm off - means that intruders were eliminated.

dark modes sounds fun but it's the same. if enemies are in alarm state they will keep attacking you. if you turn light off and mean that they will suddenly go into alarm but in dark so you will be able to sneak up on them will mean the same as turning off alarm.

my standpoint about any stealth suggestion is simple: the simplier - the better, the faster we will get it.

So agree with the simpler, the better and faster. The dark mode is just a realistic suggestion, making sense with the game, a new experience though requires complicated settings. Anyway thanks for your feedback :) Just hoping one day it may come true.

I'd also like to see a darkness mode with a flashlight toggle. Perhaps you could also briefly blind opponents by turning on the flashlight in their faces.

Great idea, I added this to my thread :) Edited May 27, 2013 by PIzzazza

[_Chaser]

So agree with the simpler, the better and faster. The dark mode is just a realistic suggestion, making sense with the game, a new experience though requires complicated settings. Anyway thanks for your feedback :) Just hoping one day it may come true.

well ;) i'm all for more complex systems, but we need to have a basic framework to go from. because depending on basic framework we can see what shape stealth gameplay can have in long term.

[Inutaicho]

Love the idea and i love stealth with my Ash

 

Noticed though that Loki invis doesnt invis sentinel while Ash one does

 

Anyone know what is up with that?

[_Chaser]

on the list of bugs

[Youriky]

I believe that the stealth gameplay should match Crysis series stealth gameplay. If they see you for a short moment or notice someone suddenly get killed, they should go like "huh? what was that" or "ill go check it out". But when they clearly see you they shouldn't immediately run for control console out in the open like a headless chicken, rather they should have some "hold the line" and some would try to make their way cover-to-cover and to get to the console.

Well I'm pretty sure you know that the AI is pretty basic.... i hope the will change it along with rng and the level design

[Prios]

X-posted (with stuff added) from the faction stealth thread, long post but it's fun, honest, scroll down to TL;DR if too huge:

 

What I'd like to see is for the control panels/alarm boxes on the minimap before the ship goes on alert. They show up when lockdown is triggered, after all, so We Have The Technology.

 

It would also make brutal SEAL team-style hustle-and-kill stealth more feasible, which is something this game really seems to have the potential for.

 

Say an advance scout or two (Loki and Banshee maybe) go as far into the room as possible, get into a good position, then snarl "Go. Now!" over voice comms. What follows is gory and sudden and probably makes a lot violent noises near the entrance, but in the grand scheme of things is frightfully discreet.

 

I actually already try to act as an informal advance scout when playing in PUGs, quickly stealthing ahead to the furthest control panel and playing THIS IS MY CONTROL PANEL DON'T TOUCH THAT DIAL WAIT IS THAT ANOTHER CONTROL PANEL OVER THERE I LAY CLAIM TO THAT ONE TOO WHOA STOP SHOOTING ME while my teammates slaughter the rest of the room oh and by the way could you maybe step the pace of the slaughtering because these guys are trying to kill me while I slap their hands away from the control panels and I'm just one Tenno thanks in advance no pressure. I can report that this is hugely satisfying and a ton of frantic fun, but it'd be a lot more fun (and actually work more often) if I didn't have to memorize the locations of the control panels in every possible freaking room. Get off your butt, Lotus. Show me where these things are. I don't want to hunt for them, I don't have all day, this is a fast-paced co-op game.

 

(Still, I've managed to keep the alarm untriggered in just this way as many as 4-5 rooms in during some PUGs with no voice or text comm preparation whatsoever. What can I say, I'm shy. Usually the alarm ends up pulled when we enter a very large wide room and it becomes impossible to find the control panels in time, even if I rush like crazy.)

---

On a slightly related note, consider making pre-alarm enemies have the same level (and have the same rewards for killing) as post-alarm enemies, but apply an "unprepared" debuff to them that makes them much weaker, at least until five or ten seconds or so after they've spotted an omfgspaceninja. Lower hitpoints, lower armor, worse aim, whatever. They aren't really expecting trouble: they've loosened the straps on their stupidly bulky armor, they probably still have their safeties on, the adrenaline (or adrenaline-equivalent) hasn't started pumping yet. Post-alarm enemies, of course, will be much better organized and ready and raring to go: they will be experience points that you really have to earn the eff out of.

 

Obviously somebody is going to try to take advantage of the weaker pre-alarm enemies by using Banshee's ultimate on every room or something, but given that Banshee's ultimate is a literal SOUND QUAKE, it will probably throw half the ship into a panic. Most ultimates are going to be loud enough to wake the dead two galaxies over.

 

TL;DR: Show all control panels on minimap in pre-alarm phase; pre-alarm enemies should be weaker but still give same experience and loot; fast, brutal SEAL team-style stealth is awesome fun and yet is almost never seen in games, but has lots of potential here.

[_Chaser]

err... i do not understand. "fast seal team" concept you describe is pretty much same run and gun but without alarm triggered. what is the purpose?

Edited May 27, 2013 by n7snk

[Whackhat]

also i suggest all storage containers have a "press x to open" as well as being destroyable. it makes sense that there is a way into a storage container without having to smash it, would give us a silent way to get energy/hp.

[Nagisawa]

One thing a lot of people aren't realizing is that with 'Gunblazing' as you called it, outside of an extermination mission the enemies constantly spawn.  Meaning that with a small crew you can get overwhelmed and fast.  And heaven forbid if you're playing Solo.

 

As I don't have many Steam friends who play this game, I tend to solo a lot of the game, and by golly, do I get swarmed and killed a lot of the time. Especially at the early level I'm at with my Excalibur, and especially against the Corpus, with their respawning robots.

 

If you stealth completely, you don't have to worry about that. And it works better as Solo.

 

But most of the OP issues, I agree with.

 

However, it should be JUST as worth it as going full guns blazing.

[_Chaser]

faction based bonus ratio aswell as faction specifics misc added

[Probta16]

also i suggest all storage containers have a "press x to open" as well as being destroyable. it makes sense that there is a way into a storage container without having to smash it, would give us a silent way to get energy/hp.

The melee sound can only hear by a enemy that are less than 5 meters close to you.

[Whackhat]

The melee sound can only hear by a enemy that are less than 5 meters close to you.

Which is about one flight of stairs, meaning they could be above you and hear you. Press x to open also wouldn't pull you out of shade's ghost.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Shigglesx

[Fenkreg]

I've had an idea...

When enemy goin to push alarm above his head must appear "!"

So we can kill him, to prevent alarm...

[PIzzazza]

Hi, actually there is already "dark mode" in the game. I remember in some missions, there is a time that all lights went out and enemies and players using flashlights. I think this "dark mode" really helps sustaining the stealth gameplay if the alarm is triggered, and we only have to shout to the devs to enable this for player to trigger. Can you consider this pls?

[Probta16]

I've had an idea...

When enemy goin to push alarm above his head must appear "!"

So we can kill him, to prevent alarm...

You can know by the enemy behavior if he will trigger the alarm. Just need some practice and perception.

 

Hi, actually there is already "dark mode" in the game. I remember in some missions, there is a time that all lights went out and enemies and players using flashlights. I think this "dark mode" really helps sustaining the stealth gameplay if the alarm is triggered, and we only have to shout to the devs to enable this for player to trigger. Can you consider this pls?

I think you are mentioning the infested mission. About the dark mode, i think is fun to have some complexity and some variation in the levels style. But this is for after the stealth become more organized.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Probta16

[Lakais]

Whatever they do to enhance stealth tactics in the game, they need to design it around a non-stealth frame, WITHOUT a sentinel. Personally I don't like sentinels. I see their use and appeal but... they look silly and having one of those hanging over my shoulder all the time would drive me nuts. 

 

But what I mean is that if I want to go about ninjaing, I could do that with an excalibur, or even with a rhino. Sure, Ash and Loki are better at it, but it shouldn't be impossible for anyone else. They'd be more specialized for this type of gameplay, but this type of gameplay should not be exclusive to them. 

[_Chaser]

Whatever they do to enhance stealth tactics in the game, they need to design it around a non-stealth frame, WITHOUT a sentinel. Personally I don't like sentinels. I see their use and appeal but... they look silly and having one of those hanging over my shoulder all the time would drive me nuts. 

 

But what I mean is that if I want to go about ninjaing, I could do that with an excalibur, or even with a rhino. Sure, Ash and Loki are better at it, but it shouldn't be impossible for anyone else. They'd be more specialized for this type of gameplay, but this type of gameplay should not be exclusive to them. 

probta is xcal stealth player. he don't equip sentiel, yet still great in stealth.

 

stealth tools are not required but makes it more comfortable. i can make a walkthrough on xcal aswell without sentiels.

[mhyr1104]

I'm a solo stealth player (thanks to the UPnP bug) with a Loki frame and this game does need some boost in the stealth gameplay. I once managed to stealth through War, killed Sgt. Nef. Anyo without being detected and finished the game without getting spotted even once and all I got was a mod and the basic amount of money. I know that this has been repeated again but we seriously do need a boost in the 'reward' part. (btw, if you have a Shade equipped, it's possible to run and slide to an enemy as long as they aren't looking at you in the face, it triggers Ghost and they aren't alerted)

[VelenoHargreaves]

Can I ask, why does Shade's ghost abillity now gets deactivated when I Stealth Attack (animation) an enemy with another in Shade's range to keep up the ghost? Was that a bug-fix? Because now you can't actually use Melee as efficiently as was before that bug-fix...

 

I mean, you can still manage to kill an enemy, but what difference does it makes when you just get yourself exposed for any enemy that decides to turn around just because he randomly wanted. (Not mentioning the body issue here, just the Ghost's lost of efficiency, the abillity still a good one, but lost some of it's shine

[mhyr1104]

I'm not sure but most likely a stealth kill counts as a 'normal attack' now (maybe) so Ghost gets deactivated. You can try to time your stealth kill by checking for other enemies and stealth killing when they aren't looking at you

[Probta16]

I'm a solo stealth player (thanks to the UPnP bug) with a Loki frame and this game does need some boost in the stealth gameplay. I once managed to stealth through War, killed Sgt. Nef. Anyo without being detected and finished the game without getting spotted even once and all I got was a mod and the basic amount of money. I know that this has been repeated again but we seriously do need a boost in the 'reward' part. (btw, if you have a Shade equipped, it's possible to run and slide to an enemy as long as they aren't looking at you in the face, it triggers Ghost and they aren't alerted)

Agree. It was discussed in this topic and i think it is on the first post.

 

Can I ask, why does Shade's ghost abillity now gets deactivated when I Stealth Attack (animation) an enemy with another in Shade's range to keep up the ghost? Was that a bug-fix? Because now you can't actually use Melee as efficiently as was before that bug-fix...

 

I mean, you can still manage to kill an enemy, but what difference does it makes when you just get yourself exposed for any enemy that decides to turn around just because he randomly wanted. (Not mentioning the body issue here, just the Ghost's lost of efficiency, the abillity still a good one, but lost some of it's shine

It was a bug fix.

[VelenoHargreaves]

I'm not sure but most likely a stealth kill counts as a 'normal attack' now (maybe) so Ghost gets deactivated. You can try to time your stealth kill by checking for other enemies and stealth killing when they aren't looking at you

 

I do that, haha, I was just asking if was a bug or something, but since Probta16 already told us that was a bug-fix then, what can we do right? xD

[_Chaser]

hey folks, stealth wasn't even mentioned on livestream. it must be adressed that if you introduce new stealth weapons, you should also work on stealth mechanics in general, otherwise stealth weapons don't make sense.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/54698-livestream-6-thanks-for-watching/

Edited May 29, 2013 by n7snk

[Lightwire]

I feel Stealth mechanics need to be fleshed out. We're ninjas. In space. With shotguns.

 

When you introduce a potentially complicated mechanic such as stealth into the game, I feel it's difficult to perform well without resorting to the  "keep out of line of sight. don't make noise. sneak. profit" mechanic that seems to be the norm... well, the only norm.

 

1) I've always imagined stealth mechanics to incorporate more utilization of the environment I've always thought of ways to have characters "fit" into certain parts of the environment and utilize everything around them more fluidly. Like a command that will make you jump into the air and latch to the ceiling making you invisible to those wandering under you?

 

2) I think sentinels give you away easily. I think if you crouch, the Sentinel should hover directly behind your back at a lower level that allows you to stay underneath "chest-high walls".

 

3) Since the game emphasizes ninja tactics (i.e running, shooting, running and shooting, slicing, running and slicing and shooting, running and sli- you get the idea) why not emphasize more ninja hiding techniques? What if each frame had a natural temporary ability to blend into the scenery in some way if you walk up to a wall, crouch or press a certain command? Temporary camoflague that would activate when they press against a wall that would break when they move or attack? Downside: You're completely immobile?

 

Perhaps if a Grineer wanders too close and begins to poke around too long and sees through the disguise?

 

Or a Corpus utilizes some type of heat signature detection device and starts scanning the area? What if MOAS had the same ability?

 

What if Infested couldn't see you at all except for the chargers who constantly sniff around like guard dogs?

 

Stealth doesn't feel like stealth when this happens: " *wander wait... wander wait- get detected SCRAMBLE AND KILL EVERYTHING AND MAKE SO MUCH NOISE- ... no alarms triggered in the room? *sunglasses* Deal with it."

 

Though when I can run into a room with two corpus, slide, send both bodies flying away with two blasts from my HEK, then Lotus responds with "You're still in the clear" and I stand up and yell out "STEALTH!!" while running in circles.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Lightwire

[mhyr1104]

^I agree, I ran into about 5 corpus crewmen and 3 MOAs and stood right infront of them when my Shade's Ghost activated and the Lotus just said 'You're still in the clear'. They were all facing me so I'm sure they should have seen me