Rakshal Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 "Let's ignore that people paid real money for them, remove them ayy lmao!!!! XDDDDDDD" How's being a NEET going for you? It isn't hard to refund people's platnium. Congrats on coming up with a mature argument as well. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)VariantX7 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I think it might have been better to just leave the helmets as purely as cosmetic items, but with a couple of mod slots for each helmet, and turn the stat boosts into mods that could be used universally across every helmet leaving people who invested in those stat boosts with their investments intact. At least this way everyone could be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll_Logic Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 It was unfair advantage for those who bought the helmet, nobody likes pay-to-win solutions, and it also forced people to wear ugly helmets they didn't like just to get that % boost to warframes stats. What "pay-to-win solution"? I've got all of the arcane helmets and I didn't pay for any of them until DE removed them. I bought about 10 or so then because there wouldn't be any more alert missions for them. The arcane helmets were available in alert missions all of the time. And for the guy who complained about the "rushing rhino", what do you care about "rushing rhinos"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisa Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I love how whenever one of these threads pops up people forget there's still two statted cosmetic items still readily available in the market and in alerts. Also I still maintain that turning helmet stats into an aura like mod given when you crafted it and slottable into any helmet would have fixed everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Separius Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 It isn't hard to refund people's platnium. Congrats on coming up with a mature argument as well. :/ Implying people want refunds instead of keeping the stuff what they paid for with the money they worked for. Go get a job and earn some money before calling others immature, because clearly you have no idea about the worth of money, else you wouldn't have even remotely thought about suggesting what you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archistopheles Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 The more you guys argue about it, the more you'll see why the devs did what they did. You can't please everyone, so taking things away from players wouldn't have completely solived the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndantony Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 It isn't hard to refund people's platnium. Congrats on coming up with a mature argument as well. :/Actually, it's could be more complicated than that. Maybe for direct Market purchase, but DE can't really track and reverse all these trades and plats, A to B, then to C, C back to A but A to D, etc... not the least in the early days of WF, the tracking system could even be less -re-fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakshal Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Actually, it's could be more complicated than that. Maybe for direct Market purchase, but DE can't really track and reverse all these trades and plats, A to B, then to C, C back to A but A to D, etc... not the least in the early days of WF, the tracking system could even be less -re-fine.What I meant was to give people legendary cores in place of those arcane helmets. Probably should have specified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)obsidiancurse Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 The solution was fine. I'm pretty sure the announcement to remove stats was advised in advance, so anyone who was here at the time had the opportunity to get them if they wanted them. If you weren't here you still have the chance to trade for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoboso Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 (edited) If they compensate me with 75p for each Arcane Helmet i own i would be fine with the removal of all of them I'd take 50p each if I got to keep the now stat-less helmet, and they reduced the cost of the helmet to 25p Edited February 4, 2015 by zoboso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-SLX-J3tAc3 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 It wasnt, it was he worst solution possible for that situation. Helmets could have been separated from the stats, making stats and helmets interchangeable as soon as you have the arcane helmet. Everyone would have won like that. You need the helmet to get its stats, you can wear it without stats, you can wear any helemt with the stat you want(ofc limited to helmets of the same frame). Precisely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)MegaFlareX Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Kinda gimps newer players (some of those helmets really help out with specific builds), but since you can still get them from others, there isn't much of a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimGamer Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 So assuming that DE wants to keep helmets as purely cosmetic items and never give cosmetic items stats for any reason then they could... 1. Refund the the helmets to remove them from the game just leaving behind the normal helmets. I'm sure the cash injection would be just fine for the in game economy or they could 2. Add an item that replaces arcane helmets as a means to tweak Warframes core stats. I don't think this is as good an option since there's already so many different things in the game and it complicates things further but it is an option. And if they were fine with cosmetic items being assigned stats later on then... 3. A system for infusing cosmetics with some stats is an option but again, this is messier then just pulling the helmets from the game altogether and doesn't really fit the way progression works right now. As for the people that say Arcane Helmets are not a big deal or that people are entitled to them. No they're not really a HUGE deal but they are a potential buff no longer obtainable to new players which is unfair to them and no you aren't entitled to items in a beta game or even a constantly changing online game. What you are owed is the value of the item and that can be addressed with a payout for each helmet or I guess the other options I put above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)N7_Dredgen Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 (edited) When I think about it, was removing the arcane helms really required? The main issue is that the only actual way to gain one is from trading with lots of plat which still signals their existance, now I know DE didn't want cosmetics to have stats but still having these stat-based helms to exist in the game but not obtainable to any means free seems like a bad decision. DE could have easily made the non-arcane helms to co-exist with old ones, maybe they could appear in invasions, clan tech, syndicates etc. If all helms were turned statless to begin with I'd be fine since their would be no difference from new players and old players. We already have an arcane stat converter BP thing so why not just re-release arcane and statless helms altogether? It is quite a flamable subject but I really wanted to voice out my opinion on it. Here's the thing though... and it might sound selfish. But I don't give a royal crap about new players. Just like Founders don't care about me. I never had a chance as a PS4 player to buy Founders Pack - and oh so cruely the Founders Program ended 2 weeks before Warframe launched on PS4 - to me THAT was horrible timing. However that said I've come to accept it, I won't get the founders stuff. Tbh I have every single Arcane Helm and most of them hurt the frame they're meant for anyway.. There are a few good ones, but most aren't great. Also you have to understand DE needs the Trade System to contain such high value items... its why they haven't squashed Primed Chamber and Legendary Cores, these items creates a vacuum that sucks in more platinum which means more money for DE...and for me. Sociologists and psychologists call our generation the "nobody gets left behind generation" because we're always forced to cater and change rules to those who are weaker or lack opportunity. Let's not make the same true in gaming. People who missed the opportunity missed it, too friggin bad... they should be happy they even have a chance to trade the helms - back the Founders stuff, it is PC exclusive so I could have never even traded it, not even with a migrator ;) Consider this the second set of Founders stuff, just its Arcane now. If you played in the first year of the game you had a chance to get them both through plat and alerts, its not like you can't get them now. Edited February 4, 2015 by (PS4)lagrue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Kazimir Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Was it necessary? No. Did it have to be done to ensure more freedom in customization? Yes. Was it handled horribly? Absolutely. My main gripe with what they did is the fact that it didn't really change much. Sure, the market-bought helmets no longer have modifiers but the helmets that did have them are still in the game and some of the helmets(Like the Aura Trinity helmet or Vanguard Rhino helmet) are still very much desirable for certain builds. Had they separated the modifiers and made them mission rewards, I think the vast majority of players wouldn't have minded. I for one own all the arcane helms and I would have absolutely no issue if the modifiers were obtainable and equip-able on all helms - in fact, I still hope they will eventually revisit the modifiers and actually change them into obtainable modules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innocent_Flower Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 You can't please everyone You can though. At least with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePizzaKing Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 so dumb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izzatuw Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 Here's the thing though... and it might sound selfish. But I don't give a royal crap about new players. Just like Founders don't care about me. I never had a chance as a PS4 player to buy Founders Pack - and oh so cruely the Founders Program ended 2 weeks before Warframe launched on PS4 - to me THAT was horrible timing. However that said I've come to accept it, I won't get the founders stuff. Tbh I have every single Arcane Helm and most of them hurt the frame they're meant for anyway.. There are a few good ones, but most aren't great. Also you have to understand DE needs the Trade System to contain such high value items... its why they haven't squashed Primed Chamber and Legendary Cores, these items creates a vacuum that sucks in more platinum which means more money for DE...and for me. Sociologists and psychologists call our generation the "nobody gets left behind generation" because we're always forced to cater and change rules to those who are weaker or lack opportunity. Let's not make the same true in gaming. People who missed the opportunity missed it, too friggin bad... they should be happy they even have a chance to trade the helms - back the Founders stuff, it is PC exclusive so I could have never even traded it, not even with a migrator ;) Consider this the second set of Founders stuff, just its Arcane now. If you played in the first year of the game you had a chance to get them both through plat and alerts, its not like you can't get them now. I will not. Huge difference. Arcane helms issue: Even an MR0 could've gotten one for 0$ before in random alerts Or 75 Plat which can be gained from trading pretty easily or with some dedication or just buy it with money. Any player with some extra $$$ can still get them now. Founders: Excalibur Prime is and always will be a founders item The only way to obtain it during its availability was with $$$ Can't be traded or given to anyone else by any legitimate means. Their's always a replacement for Excalibur Prime, Lato and Skana Prime which are the non-prime variants, their's no replacements for arcanes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izzatuw Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 What other side of the group? People who want stats on hats? If you want them, go trade. You don't want to trade for them, that's your call. The game isn't ruined off the fact that there are hats out there with stats on them. And DE doesn't want to make a lot of folks angry with stat hats to take them away. So they made a decision to say "No more after this point". It's the marker for when this was decided to take place. Is it fair to the brand new tenno? No, but DE said... "What's the least inconvenient thing we could do?", and they said "No more Arcane hats after X Date" and said "If you want them, trade for them". Perfect solution, maybe not, but it ISN'T a good solution amongst a lot of garbage options. So no, DE is just gunna keep going on, and the further away we get from the land of Arcane hats, the less they'll be important to anyone but folks who are collectors or folks who just HAVE to have something to satisfy their bucket list. So the option to have both arcanes and non-arcane helms in the market but in different sections is a horrible idea?Making the arcanes just be gained from different means (Tenno Lab, high level drops) and keep non-arcane helms in market is worse than what DE's decision is. Tell me how exactly did DE fix the solution? The way I see it, we used to get the helms from alert rewards and the market. Now we just get them from trade. So how exactly is this "fixed"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izzatuw Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 Added to OP and edited title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlayerHewkii Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Does no one remember that the helmets dropped on alerts? Anyone could get them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)obsidiancurse Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Does no one remember that the helmets dropped on alerts? Anyone could get them. Everyone who was here remembers, we have them and want to keep them thanks, well I certainly do anyway. I don't want plat or a legendary core thanks, I prefer my Vanguard. I really can't see what the problem is, this happens in real life all the time. Weren't around in the sixties to pick up a copy of Fantastic Four issue 1? Bad luck, either go without, pay a fortune or get an inferior reprint. It's a harsh fact of life that you cannot always get what you want, sometimes you miss the boat, other times you just can't afford the price. Having a finite number of rare objects in the game isn't a problem, especially as they are tradable. If you want one bad enough you can get one. I would much prefer that to the Excalibur Prime situation where I can never ever get one on PS4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axterix13 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 You can though. At least with this. You can't. There are people that believe you should still be able to get those stats in some way, shape, or form. And there's those that believe that the stats should have been stripped from all helmets, with no way to get them. I'm in the latter camp, myself. Many of those helmets shouldn't exist, providing stat bonuses that are too large. There's a reason the bonuses tended to get smaller over time, until ultimately they disappeared. I'm even for removing them from existing helms, and I've got them all. And as for a way of getting stats detached from the helm, that already exists. They're called mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)obsidiancurse Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 You can't. There are people that believe you should still be able to get those stats in some way, shape, or form. And there's those that believe that the stats should have been stripped from all helmets, with no way to get them. I'm in the latter camp, myself. Many of those helmets shouldn't exist, providing stat bonuses that are too large. There's a reason the bonuses tended to get smaller over time, until ultimately they disappeared. I'm even for removing them from existing helms, and I've got them all. And as for a way of getting stats detached from the helm, that already exists. They're called mods. See I don't understand this viewpoint? The game is overwhelmingly pve so what do the stats matter to you? If you don't want them, don't use them but why would you want them removed and deprive the people who do want them? It effects your experience in no way whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axterix13 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) See I don't understand this viewpoint? The game is overwhelmingly pve so what do the stats matter to you? If you don't want them, don't use them but why would you want them removed and deprive the people who do want them? It effects your experience in no way whatsoever. Because things do not exist in a vacuum. The devs have in their mind some level of balance. This means that having a slower frame gets you a certain level of survivability. Or that a given power has a certain radius based on what it does and the type of frame it is attached to. The stat mods impact the maximum power level a frame can attain. And so, if the devs want to make challenging content, they have to take into account that frames can have that extra power. Which means stronger enemies or weaker base frames to attain the balance goal. And so those extra stats mean either that people without them are too weak or else people with them are too strong. The only way to avoid that sort of thing is if the bonuses were minor, say 5% max (and if they were, then they might as well not exist, since we already have mods to modify our frames). But a good chunk of them aren't that low. Imagine, if you will, that a single gun existed that was superior to all others, and by a decent margin. People would use that gun in harder content. As a result, mobs would die faster, missions would be completed faster, and so on. That would lead to people using that weapon getting more drops, more mission rewards. And if the devs aim for X rewards per Y time, then they would have to reduce the odds of getting drops and rewards to compensate, or else they'd have to make the mobs tougher. Either way, the existence of a single item which I might not want to use or not have would impact the game regardless. A bit extreme example, but the principle is the same. So that's why. Because I care about balance, and because I know nothing exists in a vacuum in a game that is still evolving. Edited February 5, 2015 by Axterix13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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