I Have An Idea On How To Fix The "power Creep" That Is Inevitable In Every Mmo.

[Mesyra]

We need to stop with the nerf calls, I know people get upset that gear is stronger than what they like, I know there are weapons that out class everything else, but that is normal in any MMO/RPG. 

 

There is no sense in nerfing any of our weapons we have right now, literally no point. Nothing is shooting Ogris Rockets with perfect accuracy at 15 Rps.

 

What we need is a true leveling system, something to actually show your progress in the game.

 

the mastery system, in theory, is great.

 

Level a gun, get exp, get better guns.

 

It is simple, but in practise, it doesnt work.

 

what we need is a weapon type leveling system.

 

Level rifles by using them and using forma on them gets you rifle EXP

 

Level shotguns, daggers, pistols, sniper rifles, etc. they all have their own skill to progress through.

 

this also allows for better balance for missions, weapons, and warframes. 

 

lets take our starter gear: Excalibur, MK-1 Braton, Lato, Skana. these are all low level, whimpy weapons that dont do a lot of damage, but are useful at lower levels. these are rank 0 weapons.

 

now lets take some better gear: Volt, Karak, Lex, Fang. These are better weapons than the starter weapons, but not super amazing, there are better weapons out there, but for a mid level player, these would be good. these could be rank 5 weapons.

 

now lets take the top teir weapons. you have Loki/Rhino P, Boltor P, Synoid Gammacor, Dakra P. these are all high teir weapons. these weapons have some of the highest DPS in the game and will trash most low level mobs in half of a bullet. these could be rank 10 weapons. 

 

all these ranks could be changed and scaled, I've seen games go up to level 100 for the top teir weapons. 

 

I know what you're thinking: VYR3, what if someone just keeps leveling that same weapon over and over again until they hit the max rank possible? 

 

well random person, that is okay. they can do that to hit max rank in Rifles, but they are still low level in pistols. they still have to level those as well.

 

What I'm trying to get across is this:

 

Don't nerf weapons because new players have them, make new players unable to use them. its like every MMO/RPG, we dont have a leveling system good enough to stop new players from using the top end gear.

 

Its like a level 3 in runescape with a god sword, or a level 1 in vindictus with full everlasting armour and a +15 raider sword. or a level 1 in FFXI with full Empyrean Gear.

 

You dont nerf the gear for the high level players, you block the gear from low level players.

Edited February 21, 2015 by VYR3

[7grims]

O_O

 

wow, the flaw in this plan is so big you didnt even figured it out...

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Here's why you're wrong about balance (copy and pasted because I have to say this almost every day):

If DE doesn't balance items, they have to figure out how to work around the lack of balance.

If they make gameplay suited to those items, (T4 kind of) they completely invalidate items of equal tier that aren't good enough to compete.

If they make gameplay so items don't matter, (Nullifiers, 1 hit kills, things like that) they've killed the purpose of progression and having those items in the first place, while also meaning players need those items more, not less, because they have to take advantage of the items when they can.

If they ignore those items, they've made the game boring for those using them and made dead weight of those not using them.

If DE balances those items instead of trying to ignore them and balance everything else around them, the weapons are still good enough to compete without being overbearing, DE doesn't have to resort to tactics that nullify progression, and DE doesn't have to make their game boring/ make players pointless.

Also, tiering frames is a horrible idea. Reduces choice at high levels even further.

[Mesyra]

O_O

 

wow, the flaw in this plan is so big you didnt even figured it out...

what is the flaw then? basically every MMO/RPG has done this type of system.

[Mesyra]

Also, tiering frames is a horrible idea. Reduces choice at high levels even further.

frames dont have to follow this system, but I though we had frames MR locked already.

[Ov3rd0se]

Here's an easy solution:

 

Stop complaining.

[Mesyra]

Here's an easy solution:

 

Stop complaining.

I'm not complaining, I'm offering a solution that is tried and proven by hundreds of games so that there is no longer a need for the nerf calls in PVE.

[taiiat]

oh boy. a giant XP bar that denotes what i'm allowed to use.

that's everyone's idea of fun. i want that thing, because it looks cool and it's my Playstyle, but i'm not allowed to use it unless i play 65,536 Missions to fill an arbitrary XP bar.

:/

giant XP bars on things isn't just automatically good. it usually isn't. XP bars that mean something, such as an intuitive 'progression' representation (such as Levels ala Morrowind) can be beneficial.

but just sticking XP bars on everything just because doesn't makes games more engaging or interesting, just more limiting.

sticking big bars on things to create Gear Checks is a massively common mistake that Video Games make. it would be best for Warframe to be more intelligent than those mistakes and not make the same ones.

Human Beings are supposed to learn from what we've done wrong in the past, not keep pressing the same button and being surprised when the same thing happens.

Edited February 21, 2015 by taiiat

[Sygnano]

I can't get myself to read all this italic text, because it's @(*()$ italic.

Edited February 21, 2015 by Sygnano

[Mesyra]

I can't get myself to read all this italic text, because it's @(*()$ italic.

fixed. I didnt even realise it was in italics :|

[Feallike]

Uhmmm limiting choice is a bad thing, however endgame stuff should be locked by a mastery rank. 

[Periapsis]

Just because every other MMO does it doesn't mean it's a good idea for Warframe. While it's not necessarily a bad idea in and of itself, it's a band-aid fix for the real problem of overall weapon balance. Furthermore, it pidgeonholes players into using almost exclusively one or two types of weapons, especially in high-level missions, because the point of the system is to make you good at only a few things rather than spam every most effective weapon. This makes the game far more repetitive and less enjoyable, because to stand a chance you have to use the same few weapons all the time- much like the current system. There's still very little room for experimentation with other weapons outside of low-level missions, and still only a few really powerful builds, because you haven't solved the real problem here- that some weapons innately outclass others.

[Ionus]

frames dont have to follow this system, but I though we had frames MR locked already.

 

AFAIK Rhino is the only warframe with an MR lock of 2.

[styxonfire]

AFAIK Rhino is the only warframe with an MR lock of 2.

Its the only frame thats MR locked at all if we think about it.

[elele]

someone just keeps leveling that same weapon over and over again until they hit the max rank possible

 

This is EXACTLY what we have right now. EXACTLY why there is forma and resetting weapon lvls after formaing. 

 

You forma it and level it over and over so you can have a six-formaed Boltor Prime and get it to "hit the max rank" -- i.e. to achieve the highest possible DPS with that gun. 

 

 

Your plan fixes nothing. 

[styxonfire]

Just because every other MMO does it doesn't mean it's a good idea for Warframe. While it's not necessarily a bad idea in and of itself, it's a band-aid fix for the real problem of overall weapon balance. Furthermore, it pidgeonholes players into using almost exclusively one or two types of weapons, especially in high-level missions, because the point of the system is to make you good at only a few things rather than spam every most effective weapon. This makes the game far more repetitive and less enjoyable, because to stand a chance you have to use the same few weapons all the time- much like the current system. There's still very little room for experimentation with other weapons outside of low-level missions, and still only a few really powerful builds, because you haven't solved the real problem here- that some weapons innately outclass others.

I wholeheartedly agree with this post. However, I'm gonna concentrate on the sentence thats I set in bold.

I've had a number of problems with Dragon Nest (not under Nexon, but under Cherry Credits, but overall its from the same developer and essentially similar crap from Nexon or Cherry Credits) since... well... Imagine this. Imagine that you have your Soma Prime, Boltor Prime, Whatever Prime you wanna get to 6 formas. Imagine that in order to get a forma applied, there is a risk of it completely, as in COMPLETELY destroying your Weapon Prime once you start to forma it more than twice, and the chance for it to NOT be forma'd is also a factor after the first forma. Imagine having to deal with the RNG of getting your Weapon Prime parts and the materials, and then have an RNG factor of it BREAKING ON YOU AGAIN.

You think Warframe's RNG is bad? Wait till you play Dragon Nest (preferably SEA so that you can witness and experience how tight the grip of powercreep is in that game. Nexon's treatment on Dragon Nest is fine though.)

But yeah, I don't necessarily agree on XP locking things. Rhino and Dragon Nikana XP lock is fine, IMO. Its kind of a motivation to get you to keep going. But XP locking in general is a pain. Its only in Warframe where a rank 2 player can participate in one of the end-games like void, basically the first and only game I'VE played that has this feature applied very well. But yeah, XP locking in general is a massive pain... unless you can unlock everything at a lower rank, like lets say 6, then IMO that would be fine.

Edited February 21, 2015 by styxonfire

[vaugahn]

The whole nerf paranoia thing is selfish and tiring. Get over it.

Some things get nerfed. Some things get buffed. It happens. Doing only one or the other (or neither) is counterproductive.

[(PSN)torvahn]

its a @(*()$ PVE game the whole concept of "power creep" in PVE is so mind bogglingly stupid.

[mrhat.lf]

We seem to take in the amount of nerfs more than the amount of buffs we are given. There are much more buffs than nerfs but buffs just seem to be pushed under the rug.

[Skiritai]

This game is doing great with its own system. The idea of DE running off and copying the old garbage level system just because every other run of the mill game has it is just a bad idea.

[cyrus106]

its a @(*()$ PVE game the whole concept of "power creep" in PVE is so mind bogglingly stupid.

"its pve so screw balance" is a childish arguement. Bring something productive to the table

[(PSN)torvahn]

"its pve so screw balance" is a childish arguement. Bring something productive to the table

what in this game is so out of balance that this fear mongering over this supposed gradual imbalance that is occurring that justifies all these dad gamers posting threads at nauseam on the issue.

If this game was PVP orientated absolutely there would be cause for concern with certain types of weapons however, in regards to PVE all DE has to do is create more difficult opponents rather than continually tweaking guns.

Remember not too long ago the collective group of overly concerned mid tier dads vehemently opposed the boltor prime, boltor prime hasnt changed but now its been pushed aside in place of the synoid and the continually whinging of idiocy in regards to the weapon.

Honestly the only "broken" content currently is corrosive projection, nothing else exists that is gradually throwing the game into discord, power creep is a moronic term

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

what in this game is so out of balance that this fear mongering over this supposed gradual imbalance that is occurring that justifies all these dad gamers posting threads at nauseam on the issue.

If this game was PVP orientated absolutely there would be cause for concern with certain types of weapons however, in regards to PVE all DE has to do is create more difficult opponents rather than continually tweaking guns.

Remember not too long ago the collective group of overly concerned mid tier dads vehemently opposed the boltor prime, boltor prime hasnt changed but now its been pushed aside in place of the synoid and the continually whinging of idiocy in regards to the weapon.

Honestly the only "broken" content currently is corrosive projection, nothing else exists that is gradually throwing the game into discord, power creep is a moronic term

Please read my last post.

Also, by acnowledging CP is OP you admit that it's possible for things to be OP. Which means it's possible that things should be nerfed and it's a matter of figuring out at what point that should happen.

[(PSN)torvahn]

Please read my last post.

Also, by acnowledging CP is OP you admit that it's possible for things to be OP. Which means it's possible that things should be nerfed and it's a matter of figuring out at what point that should happen.

I said "broken" meaning how you interpret corrosive projections utility one can make a case as to why its usefulness could be scaled back, in regards to that though all CP does is compensates essentially a warframe in order to reduce the enemies armour, even if they nerf that better players will have the same effect just without the aura. The amount of mr18s who don't own CP is frighteningly high, its used by tryhard t4 survivalist and defenders for the most part in all reality.

Things are honestly not that out of balance I don't come across any of these supposed issues in day to day play, people are idiots and need to focus on getting better at the game before complaining and suggesting things hey have no comprehension over.

[LABAL]

Here's why you're wrong about balance (copy and pasted because I have to say this almost every day):

If DE doesn't balance items, they have to figure out how to work around the lack of balance.

If they make gameplay suited to those items, (T4 kind of) they completely invalidate items of equal tier that aren't good enough to compete.

If they make gameplay so items don't matter, (Nullifiers, 1 hit kills, things like that) they've killed the purpose of progression and having those items in the first place, while also meaning players need those items more, not less, because they have to take advantage of the items when they can.

If they ignore those items, they've made the game boring for those using them and made dead weight of those not using them.

If DE balances those items instead of trying to ignore them and balance everything else around them, the weapons are still good enough to compete without being overbearing, DE doesn't have to resort to tactics that nullify progression, and DE doesn't have to make their game boring/ make players pointless.

Makes me wonder what the Hek I'm still doing here...