Does Increasing Enemy Levels Make It Endgame ? (Devstream 47)

[KingTaro]

DE did add new enemy units that gave some people a hard time before they got nerfed to the ground.

 

Ancient Healer used to be an enemy weak when alone, but deadly as a group.

We had the Rollers that didn't pose a threat, untill you had an entire squad rolling your way.

 

I'd say most people enjoy the feeling of being "unstoppable" more than overcoming a challenge.

[Chhkt]

Honestly what Survival needs to increase in difficulty is not the scaling of enemies but a clinch on Life Support.

 

As an idea:

1) Enemies scale to a capped level like 60-70 at most.

2) Life Support doesn't drop from enemies anymore.

3) Instead you have to secure Life Support pods that randomly spawn in decreasing amounts that are also threatened by enemies.

 

Think of it as a blend between Interception and Excavation. Pods that spawn have a limited time to be activated (by "capturing" them with all teammates present in the capture radius) or they are destroyed by enemies. As time goes on, there are fewer pods so you can't afford to miss one. Making survival like this would effectively end room/chokepoint camping for hours, and would make for a more interesting gameplay type.

 

In short, this game would do better if the endless mission types didn't depend on enemy scaling so much to "add difficulty". Instead, other factors that affect mission success should be the cause of difficulty.

Edited February 22, 2015 by Xcedis

[geninrising]

So you're in favor of killing the concept of tiered weapons and balancing them all such that even the MKI Braton could do high level content just as well as, say, the Boltor Prime?

That's not what I meant at all. There should be tiered weapons but among said tier there should be no discrimination for or against any weapon. The Paris Prime should take down those guys just as fast as the Boltor Prime.

[egypt]

Does Increasing Enemy Levels Make It Endgame ?

 

answer: totally!

[--GOOLOO_GOOLOO_GOOLOO--]

We need an enemy that can physically move Tenno!

 

Besides hook-lining and shield bash knock downs.

 

 

We need REAL BEASTMODE ENEMIES that **************************** in the ********************** RAM US ACROSS THE PLACE... more than one of us too!

 

We need enemies that ***************************************asterisks grab you and smack your teammates around as they try to get you free by shooting the hand or whatever.

 

 

WE NEED HUUUUUGE enemies that discombobulate us!

[Sev7n]

Enemies levels should only be continuously increased to a certain extent. Eventually to create a challenge through this method enemies levels will have to exceed our own's so greatly that receiving any damage from them will result in instant deaths. At this point the only challenge would be avoiding damage which is done by "power spamming" and building overpowered weapons that can kill the enemies in a timely manner.

 

This leads to weapons being useless, build diversity becoming non existent, and the discovery of exploits.

 

I honestly hope that this is not something DE intends to do with their game and if anything only use this method temporarily until they can find a way to improve the enemy AI / mechanics to create a difficulty that does not involve just beefing up their hp and damage output.

 

(Nullifiers and Drahk masters addition to the game was a right step towards creating a proper increase in difficulty)

[RoboDoge]

We need an enemy that can physically move Tenno!

 

Besides hook-lining and shield bash knock downs.

 

 

We need REAL BEASTMODE ENEMIES that **************************** in the ********************** RAM US ACROSS THE PLACE... more than one of us too!

 

We need enemies that ***************************************asterisks grab you and smack your teammates around as they try to get you free by shooting the hand or whatever.

 

 

WE NEED HUUUUUGE enemies that discombobulate us!

HUUUUUUUUGEEEEEEE enemies would be easy to fight as you could just run through a door, and they can only look at you whole crying.

[--GOOLOO_GOOLOO_GOOLOO--]

HUUUUUUUUGEEEEEEE enemies would be easy to fight as you could just run through a door, and they can only look at you whole crying.

 

make they like memory foam and squish themselves and plop back up for murdering

 

 

or reverse self rising dough

Edited February 23, 2015 by GoatGodJohn

[OniDax]

Enemies levels should only be continuously increased to a certain extent. Eventually to create a challenge through this method enemies levels will have to exceed our own's so greatly that receiving any damage from them will result in instant deaths. At this point the only challenge would be avoiding damage which is done by "power spamming" and building overpowered weapons that can kill the enemies in a timely manner.

 

This leads to weapons being useless, build diversity becoming non existent, and the discovery of exploits.

 

I honestly hope that this is not something DE intends to do with their game and if anything only use this method temporarily until they can find a way to improve the enemy AI / mechanics to create a difficulty that does not involve just beefing up their hp and damage output.

 

(Nullifiers and Drahk masters addition to the game was a right step towards creating a proper increase in difficulty)

 

And if enemies are so strong that they insta kill us, then what's the point of the Tenno? I find it hard to believe that the Orokin needed the Tenno to beat the Sentients when the Grineer, using inferior technology, are strong enough to wipe the floor with the Tenno.

[Kaotyke]

Oh yeah, wonder how the Grineer Manic would be like.

 

Edit: Remember the Juggernaut? I think DE said they were resistant to most abilities.

Didnt some1 in the stream met a Maniac and was complaining about "He is annoying!" or something?

And the Juggernaut.... I still want the music of the map to change once it appears, just like when the Tank in L4D2.

[--GOOLOO_GOOLOO_GOOLOO--]

Didnt some1 in the stream met a Maniac and was complaining about "He is annoying!" or something?

And the Juggernaut.... I still want the music of the map to change once it appears, just like when the Tank in L4D2.

 

It should have a cry of some sort to let us know of its arrival

 

 

like HEEEEREESSS JOHNNY!

 

or...

 

WHAT ARE YOU DOING IN MY SWAAAMP!?

[TeaBegging]

Giving enemies diffrent weapons can make them harder aswell. I remember when the corpus crewman got their flux rifles and they could kill you easily if you didn't take them out first. We already have an huge arsenal off weapons maybe the AI should use some other ones aswell. Seeing corrupted corpus crewman using boar that doesn't do damage at all kinda dissapoints me.

[low1991]

No you don't, but having it start at level 80 would that force you to use specific gear to be atleast usefull? The reason that I posted that title is to prove that just increasing enemies levels isn't making it lategame.

And in my post, where did i stat that increasing enemies lvl = late/ end game?

[TeaBegging]

And in my post, where did i stat that increasing enemies lvl = late/ end game?

No you didn't I wrote that as a general answer.

[cyrus106]

Some guns are stronger than others and some guns are worth using to get better performance over other guns.

 

Incredible I know, I was shocked too.

 

You want new mechanics? You want better AI? DE nerfed enemys AI and balanced to be more fair because people were whining that grineer were too accurate. 

You want different mechanics to improve difficulty? DE added nulifiers and 99% of people to this day are still crying for nerfs on them.

 

Could you please reflect on your own requests and complaints? Dont ask for difficulty other than level/health/damage scaling if youre going to turn around and whine for nerfs.

BullS#&$ accuracy =/= increasing ai, increasing ai means they are more challenging, intelligent. And nullifiers are simply horseS#&$, they are not an enjoyable challenge they are a knee jerk reaction that negates half the fun of warframe(powers)

[victor_victory]

I don't understand all the hate. We barely see the first part of the raid and we don't even play it ourselves yet. 

[CrazyCatLad]

Artificial difficulty.

 

I'm okay with buffed damage but buffing them to become uber bullet sponges is just sad/lazy

[Sev7n]

I don't understand all the hate. We barely see the first part of the raid and we don't even play it ourselves yet. 

The discussion isn't directed at the raids but at how late game difficulty is mainly just enemies with increased health and damage and if its method of increasing difficulty is one people agree with.

[ROSING]

I see all these people labelling DE's changes as being lazy and knee jerk, yet perhaps I am uncreative, what then would make this dynamically challenging? What would make the AI smarter? How else do you combat invisibility, complete disarmament of high level threats and nigh invulnerability? Maybe I missed it but I don't see anyone suggesting alternatives, and personally I think the things DE has done are valid changes.

[TeaBegging]

I see all these people labelling DE's changes as being lazy and knee jerk, yet perhaps I am uncreative, what then would make this dynamically challenging? What would make the AI smarter? How else do you combat invisibility, complete disarmament of high level threats and nigh invulnerability? Maybe I missed it but I don't see anyone suggesting alternatives, and personally I think the things DE has done are valid changes.

I pretty much posted this a couple times and do it agian. 

Here it goes.

Mobile Enemies.

Teamworking enemies such as the hyena pack.

Invisible enemies that are unafected by abilities, but go outside cloack once they ambush you.

Wallrunning enemies. 

Element off suprise enemies. While having a face off the enemy is doing manevours, such as rolling or jumping etc.

 

[TeaBegging]

I don't understand all the hate. We barely see the first part of the raid and we don't even play it ourselves yet. 

 

There is no hate here. Its just worries/feedback. suggestions are coming along with it. Hate is a strong word. 

[wtrmlnjuc]

Personally, I don't want stronger enemies, I want smarter AI. But it generally doesn't jive with a lot of people who view Warframe as a casual game. Hopefully raids fix this. I had the most fun during that Hyena event a few months back. Fighting an enemy that moves completely differently and in smarter ways than the regular grineer/corpus troops felt good.