Synoid Gammacor Does Not Need Changes, It Is Already Balanced

[Magneu]

Meh. You shiould try more then. Its not like power creep is even an argument, when you have other unbalanced weapons.

But I guess nothing should ever trump your favorites, right?

There's weapon imbalance, yes; there will always be a top tier of weapons. But when one weapon occupies a tier by itself (and said tier is much farther ahead in every aspect compared to the others), it needs to be brought back down. Speaking as a MR18 who has mastered everything but a couple Archwing weapons, so I've tried each weapon, the Synoid blows every other weapon out of the water. It isn't balanced for any semblance of normal gameplay; when I had only 3 forma in mine, it only fell off against level 60+ Grineer, without any Corrosive Projection. Most other weapons with 3 forma would have choked a long time before. 

 

Power creep is definitely a valid argument. Have two people bring a Synoid and a  Burston Prime (my most used weapon with almost 1500 hours), and see which one is still killing enemies at level 100+. So much for Prime weaponry being top tier, when a mining laser has up to 5x the sustained DPS.

 

This isn't a case of favorites, or tweaking weapons to be roughly equal. This is a case of bringing a weapon that trivializes the star chart/almost every void up to high waves with almost no operator skill, especially compared to other weapons (at least with the Boltor Prime you have to lead targets!).

 

And please stop trying to argue we need the Synoid for high tier. People have hit 3+ hours in voids before even the Boltor Prime (shocking, I know (sarcasm off)). 

[HandsomeSorcerer]

Power creep is definitely a valid argument. Have two people bring a Synoid and a  Burston Prime (my most used weapon with almost 1500 hours), and see which one is still killing enemies at level 100+. So much for Prime weaponry being top tier, when a mining laser has up to 5x the sustained DPS.

 

That mining laser is a special syndicate weapon. There are other non prime weapons that make the burston look like a pea shooter. Ever tried the Kohm? Ever tried the Quanta? The opticor can clear level 30-40 trash with its blast, thats with 50% of its damage.

Than there is the synapse,  phage, etc.

This isnt argument what you wrote.  However, I do see the pojnt that it is kinda annoying to know that there is a secondary weapon out that out guns your belowed primary.

 

Lets break it down::

Telos akbolto: fast fire, dual semi auto pistols.

As good as you can shoot with them. Lots of damage. Currently too weak.

Vaylor marelok: is basically a marelok with 2 more ammo and changed stats and buffed status chance.

What does it do? Its a revolver. Its role is more heavy hitting semi auto gun.

Secura Dual cestra. Basically dual machine pistols. Currently too weak.

Rakta is nothing more then a bow version of the marelok. It does 300% damage compared to the normal version.

Castanas. Basically C4. Too weak.

And the sgammacor.

 

Now, tell me, if you were to nerf the gammacor, what use would it have? We are talking here about either range nerf, damage nerf or ammo economy nerf.

You would defeat the purpose of even using it. I dont mind its damage going down 25% or so but not more I also wouldnt mind its max ammo reduced to half of what it currently has.

As seen with the Rakta Buff, syndicate weapons are supposed to be extremely powerful, but 3 out of 6 are too weak.

 

If the gammacor range was to be nerfed, it would make it pointless to hold it. The way I see it, the gammacor is the secondary version of the quanta, except its meant for close range.

Most people in this forum want this weapon to be nerfed to what happened to the acrid. They dont want balance, they want to ruin it, just for the funzies and forum responses.

 

 

And please stop trying to argue we need the Synoid for high tier. People have hit 3+ hours in voids before even the Boltor Prime (shocking, I know (sarcasm off)).

I wouldnt even take a gammacor, for high level content.

Its short range makes it hard to be useful against anything if you have enemies that arent MPed or disarmed or insert here Frame CC ability.

 

You are going to eat a rocket if you go with it against bombards or you will die if you go against nullifiers.

[Magneu]

 

Power creep is definitely a valid argument. Have two people bring a Synoid and a  Burston Prime (my most used weapon with almost 1500 hours), and see which one is still killing enemies at level 100+. So much for Prime weaponry being top tier, when a mining laser has up to 5x the sustained DPS.

 

That mining laser is a special syndicate weapon. There are other non prime weapons that make the burston look like a pea shooter. Ever tried the Kohm? Ever tried the Quanta? The opticor can clear level 30-40 trash with its blast, thats with 50% of its damage.

Than there is the synapse,  phage, etc.

This isnt argument what you wrote.  However, I do see the pojnt that it is kinda annoying to know that there is a secondary weapon out that out guns your belowed primary.

 

Lets break it down::

Telos akbolto: fast fire, dual semi auto pistols.

As good as you can shoot with them. Lots of damage. Currently too weak.

Vaylor marelok: is basically a marelok with 2 more ammo and changed stats and buffed status chance.

What does it do? Its a revolver. Its role is more heavy hitting semi auto gun.

Secura Dual cestra. Basically dual machine pistols. Currently too weak.

Rakta is nothing more then a bow version of the marelok. It does 300% damage compared to the normal version.

Castanas. Basically C4. Too weak.

And the sgammacor.

 

Now, tell me, if you were to nerf the gammacor, what use would it have? We are talking here about either range nerf, damage nerf or ammo economy nerf.

You would defeat the purpose of even using it. I dont mind its damage going down 25% or so but not more I also wouldnt mind its max ammo reduced to half of what it currently has.

As seen with the Rakta Buff, syndicate weapons are supposed to be extremely powerful, but 3 out of 6 are too weak.

 

If the gammacor range was to be nerfed, it would make it pointless to hold it. The way I see it, the gammacor is the secondary version of the quanta, except its meant for close range.

Most people in this forum want this weapon to be nerfed to what happened to the acrid. They dont want balance, they want to ruin it, just for the funzies and forum responses.

 

 

And please stop trying to argue we need the Synoid for high tier. People have hit 3+ hours in voids before even the Boltor Prime (shocking, I know (sarcasm off)).

I wouldnt even take a gammacor, for high level content.

Its short range makes it hard to be useful against anything if you have enemies that arent MPed or disarmed or insert here Frame CC ability.

 

You are going to eat a rocket if you go with it against bombards or you will die if you go against nullifiers.

 

I never said I want it destroyed. If it lost 25% DPS, that would put it slightly above the Boltor Prime, while having only 25 meter range as a downside. If it maxed out at 30k DPS or so, I would be happy, although an increase on ammo drain would be nice. And yes, I've max all of those weapons you listed except for the Synapse and Quanta. The Opticor is incredibly strong? Yeah, with 5-6 forma, it does roughly 32k per shot, with a 1.2 seconds charge time (and you don't get to choose when to release it!). Burst damage wise, it's awesome. Sustained? Not so much.

 

The argument of "the Synoid is the secondary version of the Quanta" is quite bluntly, stupid. It has roughly 4-5x the DPS with the main fire, and the secondary fire is its saving grace (don't forget the secondary is quite close range, and deals innate Blast). Setting release dates aside, the only similarity is that their both beam weapons. 

 

In addition, please fact check; the Vaykor has 4 ammo over the vanilla version. And while the Burston Prime is a favorite of mine, I run more with the Latron Prime now anyways; please don't attempt to create a fictitious emotional bond between me and the mechanics of a gun (Synoid fans are more guilty of this anyway, from what I've seen when I chat with them in relays). You're also stating that people in this thread want the Synoid nerfed to bottom tier; far from it. Personally, I want higher ammo drain, reduced range, reduced max ammo, or any combo of those three. 

 

As for it becoming useless if range was reduced, due to Bombards and Nullifiers, welcome to endgame, where CC is king and time to kill comes second. People have been using the Amprex/Synapse for high tier missions for ages, and those both have only 18 meters range. Don't argue Kohm DPS either, as it's max spool DPS requires you to literally be touching the enemy to hit with all pellets.

 

Basically, I'm ok with the Synoid remaining high tier; hell, make it in top three DPS secondaries, mechanics notwithstanding (Synoid gets the long end of the stick in terms of mechanics/efficiency anyway). But don't let it stay as the clear leader of every weapon in the game.

[DarkLordX2]

 

Power creep is definitely a valid argument. Have two people bring a Synoid and a  Burston Prime (my most used weapon with almost 1500 hours), and see which one is still killing enemies at level 100+. So much for Prime weaponry being top tier, when a mining laser has up to 5x the sustained DPS.

 

That mining laser is a special syndicate weapon. There are other non prime weapons that make the burston look like a pea shooter. Ever tried the Kohm? Ever tried the Quanta? The opticor can clear level 30-40 trash with its blast, thats with 50% of its damage.

Than there is the synapse,  phage, etc.

This isnt argument what you wrote.  However, I do see the pojnt that it is kinda annoying to know that there is a secondary weapon out that out guns your belowed primary.

 

Lets break it down::

Telos akbolto: fast fire, dual semi auto pistols.

As good as you can shoot with them. Lots of damage. Currently too weak.

Vaylor marelok: is basically a marelok with 2 more ammo and changed stats and buffed status chance.

What does it do? Its a revolver. Its role is more heavy hitting semi auto gun.

Secura Dual cestra. Basically dual machine pistols. Currently too weak.

Rakta is nothing more then a bow version of the marelok. It does 300% damage compared to the normal version.

Castanas. Basically C4. Too weak.

And the sgammacor.

 

Now, tell me, if you were to nerf the gammacor, what use would it have? We are talking here about either range nerf, damage nerf or ammo economy nerf.

You would defeat the purpose of even using it. I dont mind its damage going down 25% or so but not more I also wouldnt mind its max ammo reduced to half of what it currently has.

As seen with the Rakta Buff, syndicate weapons are supposed to be extremely powerful, but 3 out of 6 are too weak.

 

If the gammacor range was to be nerfed, it would make it pointless to hold it. The way I see it, the gammacor is the secondary version of the quanta, except its meant for close range.

Most people in this forum want this weapon to be nerfed to what happened to the acrid. They dont want balance, they want to ruin it, just for the funzies and forum responses.

 

 

And please stop trying to argue we need the Synoid for high tier. People have hit 3+ hours in voids before even the Boltor Prime (shocking, I know (sarcasm off)).

I wouldnt even take a gammacor, for high level content.

Its short range makes it hard to be useful against anything if you have enemies that arent MPed or disarmed or insert here Frame CC ability.

 

You are going to eat a rocket if you go with it against bombards or you will die if you go against nullifiers.

 

Can we just stop saying that its 25m is a short range, when it's not?

Edited March 16, 2015 by DarkLordX2

[Faulcun]

Can we just stop saying that its 25m is a short range, when it's not?

 

Can we just stop talking about DPS numbers that dont even matter until levels that most players cant even reach?

[HandsomeSorcerer]

Can we just stop saying that its 25m is a short range, when it's not?

Its "Medium".

Lets nerf it to 18 to what the synapse or amprex has. Nerfing it any further, and at least for me, this weapon would hit the useless bin.

 

But let me tell you ;  I dislike the gamamcor as a weapon. Nerfing its damage or range would make me even sell it. Its low range makes it pointless to play with the way I like to play.

I prefer the cestras, which are currently S#&$, and the marelok, which is decent.

 

Inb4 people complaining about the Marelok being too OP:

[vaugahn]

Can we just stop talking about DPS numbers that dont even matter until levels that most players cant even reach?

 

If only that was true.

[HibikiGanaha]

Brakk falloff starts at 8-10 meters; if you want to stay alive against high level enemies at that range, you better have some form of damage mitigation/CC on said enemy. Range does matter when a weapon like the Embolist has what, 6-8 meters? 25 meters is more than enough range. I can hit guys behind the planters taking maybe one step out of a normal sized globe. Dropping a damage mod for range extension STILL puts the Synoid as the top damaging weapon in game, especially related to ammo economy.

So you have to step outside of a normal frost bubble to hit guys at the planters or near the edge of a frost bubble w/ stretch?  Doesn't sound like a very good idea considering bombard explosions hit through frost bubbles.  You are again using multiple different sides of an argument whenever it conveniences your point.  This time it's "drop a mod for ruinous extension" when before you were arguing how "it has 50% more dps compared to a boltor prime."  I'm almost positive you used primed heated charge in your damage calculation to skew the results even more in your favor.  On top of that you've argued the ease of acquisition and yet don't mention how insanely expensive primed heated charge is to acquire and level.  Not exactly playing fair with any of your arguments so far.

 

A pure Toxin weapon is good against Corpus? Shocking. Especially considering how squishy Crewmen are. Still, the 3 basic damage mods and max Pathogen rounds is giving me 6.2k sustained vs Crewmen Flesh. they can hit pretty hard at that level, I find it hard to believe you facetanked them without some sort of damage mitigation or CC. It doesn't matter you know how long 25 meters is, it matters that most engagements in the game take place at 25 meters. IDK about you, but I can stay fairly close to the core/rover and still hit guys with a 25 meter range (Ruinous Extension isn't even that big of a DPS loss), and a good amount of defense maps have enemies hiding behind cover that's within 25 meters. Even in survival, most encounters aren't the player staring down a long hallway, it's defending chokepoints/fighting in corridors. If the Synoid had a 15 meter range, I wouldn't even be here arguing. But 25 meters (top of all beam weapons except Quanta) is too long to justify it's insane DPS numbers and economy.

DE knew what they were doing giving the embolist short range.  It has "punchthrough" equivalent to it's range.  It's an innate toxin gun.  It has 100% chance to proc toxin regardless of elements attached.  Gammacor doesn't have any of those things, let alone all three on one gun.  Embolist would be completely insane if they gave it anything else.  Embolist is the same as the gammcor in that it is a very good gun within it's range, bad on big tiles.

 

I've made mention of engagements that take place with >25m and both times I've posted about them nobody has said a single word against what I've said.  I find your statement of staying close to the rover/core and being able to kill things to be an exaggeration.  It's a very short distance before your shields disconnect from the escort. 

 

As for defense, in addition to enemies hiding behind cover <25m there are also >25 lines of sight.  You need to walk over to the cover to kill the enemies with any gun.  One concrete example of this is on the Europa defense tile, guys will hide behind the shipping crate to the left of the pod (facing away from the ship interior).  There are also 2-3 >25m lines of sight to the pod.  Related to an earlier post I made about this, I remembered a second defense tile without 25m LoS; the grineer one with the pod that goes up and down.

 

In regards to survival, I don't play like that.  I enjoy running and gunning with the team, not camping in a corner.  I have done corner camping and it is soooooooo boring.  It's as boring as interception rep farming.  I think staring at paint drying might actually be more fun.  If you find that kind of "play" to be exciting, more power to you, but you shouldn't balance a gun around that type of engagement.

[HibikiGanaha]

The old Flux Rifle wasn't even nearly as strong as the S.Gammacor is. The ONLY better part of it was that it ignored the armor (which can be ignored with Corrosive Projection, or some augmented skills, or mostly ignored with the help of Corrosive/Radiation these days anyway)

 

Compare these things, just so people understand how insanely much stronger the S.Gammacor is compared to the old Flux Rifle:

* Flux Rifle had (and still has) a rate of fire at 10, making it consume ammo very quickly, 5 times more quickly compared to the S.Gammacor. So just looking at ammo pickups, the S.Gammacor is already 5 times more efficient.

* Even though having 5 times slower ammo consumption, the S.Gammacor STILL also has a HIGHER dps than the old Flux Rifle. I don't remember the numbers exactly, but it had somewhere between 180 dps and 250 dps, while the S.Gammacor has 420!

* Flux Rifle's magsize was only 100 back then. If the S.Gammacor would have the same amount of shooting time as the old Flux Rifle had it would need to have its magsize reduced to 20, instead of 75. For ammo reserves, that would mean the S.Gammacor needs to have 108 in spare, to be similar to the old Flux Rifle's 540 (rather than the S.Gammacor's current 375). But, the S.Gammacor was nerfed to those numbers, it would still be in a major advantage compared to the old Flux Rifle, since ammo pickups are 5 times as efficient (AND it still deals double the dps on top of that), so the comparison is still not perfectly emphasized yet. So to REALLY put an emphasis on how efficient it is:

* If you put the S.Gammacor to have the same ammo consumption rate as the Flux Rifle (rate of fire at 10), while still keeping its current magsize and spare ammo equivalents, that means that its current magsize would be 375 and an ammo reserve of 1875. That while ALSO having pistol ammo pickups give you 100 ammo each! And that WHILE STILL HAVING ABOUT DOUBLE THE DPS.

* So, if you cut down the S.Gammacor's dps AND ammo consumption rate to be the same as the old Flux Rifle (which means cutting it down from its current 210 damage and 2 rate of fire (420 dps), to just ~21 damage and 10 rate of fire (210 dps, halfed of its current)), while still retaining its equivalent in magsize, spare ammo and ammo pickups as it has now it would mean that it would have: 750 magsize, 3750 spare ammo and 200 ammo per pistol ammo pickup...

 

That means, with similar dps and ammo consumption in contrast to the Flux Rifle: It would have 7,5x the magsize, ~6,94x the spare ammo and 10x the ammo pickup.

 

But in reality, due to not having the same dps nor ammo consumption, the real direct comparison is rather it having 2x the dps, 5x the ammo pickup and 5x slower ammo consumption rate with the only "downsides" being ~0,69x the spare ammo and 0,75x the magsize (which doesn't matter due to the massive ammo efficiency and dps differences)

 

So no, not a fair comparison AT ALL! The S.Gammacor is miles and miles and miles and miles ahead of even the old Flux Rifle...

The power creep is real... wait no, that's not the right term: The power LEAP is real people!

How can you say that a gun that ignored armor completely is no match for a gun that doesn't?  I wasn't around for damage 1.0 and the Flux Rifle, but that sounds way stronger than the gammacor.

 

Your argument of "use 4 corrosive projections" is an entirely different problem with the game.

[Faulcun]

If only that was true.

 

Explain to me how its not.

[RealPandemonium]

Can we just stop talking about DPS numbers that dont even matter until levels that most players cant even reach?

Why have such outliers in the first place?

[Volume]

s-gunit really needs like 50% less damage and 15m range, would still be OP and broken.

[akira_him]

U16 is near, and we can see how long 25m is in raid

[Davoodoo]

U16 is near, and we can see how long 25m is in raid

On ceres interception loki could cover all spawns with his 50m aoe, that should already give you a clue how long 25m is.

 

Also

1)back in u7 40m was considered sniper range, after that sniper rifles were pretty abandoned.

2)around 30m braton stops being pinpoint accurate.

3)strun falls off at 15m, hek at 20m.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Davoodoo

[Faulcun]

Why have such outliers in the first place?

 

It doesnt even matter because almost all  weaponry can be modded to the point of trivialization to standard level content. Its not like we get any kind of bonus for extra unused damage on enemies. Any magical number above the point of death does nothing for anybody or have any different effect other than death.

 

If you hit a level 20 enemy for 80,000 damage, or you use a latron and hit them for 3,000 damage, they still die all the same just as fast.

 

The whole obsession over the gammacor is silly. This is a player problem, not a weapon problem.

[RealPandemonium]

It doesnt even matter because almost all  weaponry can be modded to the point of trivialization to standard level content. Its not like we get any kind of bonus for extra unused damage on enemies. Any magical number above the point of death does nothing for anybody or have any different effect other than death.

 

If you hit a level 20 enemy for 80,000 damage, or you use a latron and hit them for 3,000 damage, they still die all the same just as fast.

 

The whole obsession over the gammacor is silly. This is a player problem, not a weapon problem.

That also means that the overpowered equipment can reach trivialization levels with less investment than more reasonable weapons.  It further means that any challenge the developers throw at us numbers-wise will still be neutered by the huge amount of overkill available to us.  Also, people think that every weapon that's not OP is useless as a side-effect of all the powercreep.  This makes them scream for DE to buff everything, which in turn leads to more powercreep, which in turn will eventually lead to bandaids to powercreep like enemies that one-shot us and super high level Grineer.  There's no reason to have outliers besides for infinite content, which is not Warframe.  If infinite content is repeatedly catered to then there will eventually be no point to 90% of the game.

[Faulcun]

That also means that the overpowered equipment can reach trivialization levels with less investment than more reasonable weapons.  It further means that any challenge the developers throw at us numbers-wise will still be neutered by the huge amount of overkill available to us.  Also, people think that every weapon that's not OP is useless as a side-effect of all the powercreep.  This makes them scream for DE to buff everything, which in turn leads to more powercreep, which in turn will eventually lead to bandaids to powercreep like enemies that one-shot us and super high level Grineer.  There's no reason to have outliers besides for infinite content, which is not Warframe.  If infinite content is repeatedly catered to then there will eventually be no point to 90% of the game.

 

I agree with what you are saying. However, you are talking about a few separate issues, which I want to address separately.

 

 

 

That also means that the overpowered equipment can reach trivialization levels with less investment than more reasonable weapons.

 

This is true. But what kind of investment are you referring to? How come nobody wants to talk about all this Viver, Egate, Draco and Stephano nonsense. So many players are trivializing the game without even using weapons on maps such as those. In fact, the real trivialization ultimately comes down to warframe powers.... not weapons. In every mission, there is solid trivialization employing some combination of rhino, mesa, excal, or mag. So weapons are leveled with no real investment at all.

 

 

 

It further means that any challenge the developers throw at us numbers-wise will still be neutered by the huge amount of overkill available to us.

 

This has already been happening since way before the gammacor was even a seed of an idea. There has yet to be an event or alert that I would consider a real challenge, except for maybe the last alert with the melee-only weapons. That was actually fun taking on those high level enemies in hand to hand combat. But what did the community do? They sat there and spammed 4 just like on every other mission.

 

 

 

Also, people think that every weapon that's not OP is useless as a side-effect of all the powercreep.

 

While this is true, it is not a legitimate reason to nerf or buff something. If you conform to this type of simple minded idea, that all weapons are useless except for the most OP thing in the game, then I wish you the best of luck in life and ill see myself out. I wont engage with people who cannot think for themselves.

 

 

 

This makes them scream for DE to buff everything, which in turn leads to more powercreep, which in turn will eventually lead to bandaids to powercreep like enemies that one-shot us and super high level Grineer.

 

This is again, not a weapon problem. This is a DE problem. They have been pandering to childish behavior since the game's inception. It is perfectly ok to listen to, consider, and address the community, but great caution must be taken, or you get the exact situation we are in right now. They need to know when to say "No." With that being said, I like they changes they have made in these recent updates and patches. I think they are getting back on the right track.

 

 

 

There's no reason to have outliers besides for infinite content, which is not Warframe.  If infinite content is repeatedly catered to then there will eventually be no point to 90% of the game.

 

What is Warframe? I have everything. In fact, I have multiples of everything. There isnt a whole lot for me to do now. At this time, there is no point to 100% of the game for me because there is no viable end game content.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Faulcun

[vaugahn]

-snip-

 

So your argument basically comes down to "other things are bad, so it's okay for this thing to be bad too"?

[RealPandemonium]

I agree with what you are saying. However, you are talking about a few separate issues, which I want to address separately.

 

 

 

 

This is true. But what kind of investment are you referring to? How come nobody wants to talk about all this Viver, Egate, Draco and Stephano nonsense. So many players are trivializing the game without even using weapons on maps such as those. In fact, the real trivialization ultimately comes down to warframe powers.... not weapons. In every mission, there is solid trivialization employing some combination of rhino, mesa, excal, or mag. So weapons are leveled with no real investment at all.

 

 

 

 

This has already been happening since way before the gammacor was even a seed of an idea. There has yet to be an event or alert that I would consider a real challenge, except for maybe the last alert with the melee-only weapons. That was actually fun taking on those high level enemies in hand to hand combat. But what did the community do? They sat there and spammed 4 just like on every other mission.

 

 

 

 

While this is true, it is not a legitimate reason to nerf or buff something. If you conform to this type of simple minded idea, that all weapons are useless except for the most OP thing in the game, then I wish you the best of luck in life and ill see myself out. I wont engage with people who cannot think for themselves.

 

 

 

 

This is again, not a weapon problem. This is a DE problem. They have been pandering to childish behavior since the game's inception. It is perfectly ok to listen to, consider, and address the community, but great caution must be taken, or you get the exact situation we are in right now. They need to know when to say "No." With that being said, I like they changes they have made in these recent updates and patches. I think they are getting back on the right track.

 

 

 

 

What is Warframe? I have everything. In fact, I have multiples of everything. There isnt a whole lot for me to do now. At this time, there is no point to 100% of the game for me because there is no viable end game content.

When I give feedback and comment on these forums, I do so from a perspective that assumes that all the problems of this game will eventually be weeded out.  

 

Regarding weapon "investment," I am referring to potatoes, formas, and slots.  Many players, especially newer or more casual players, view leveling up weapons as a major investment decision, which is part of the reason there's so much "ONLY THE BEST BUILD" sentiment in player feedback.  

 

Regarding the fodderization of all but the best options and the lack of real challenge, I think if the gap between the best and the worst was pretty small then people wouldn't speak poorly about so many of our options all the time, in every thread.  Lowering the ceiling of weapon power would be a good start to introducing challenge to this game that makes sense for most equipment; you can't do that in the state that things are in now.  The start of Damage 2.0 was pretty balanced weapon-wise, except for certain things like Soma, explosives, Synapse, and the like.  An environment closer to that is far preferable to the situation we have now.  

 

As for DE supporting the wrong ideas in the playerbase, we can only hope that improves.  Actually rebalancing existing weapon options and fixing things like armor scaling would certainly be a positive step.  

 

Seems like you're an infinite content player but you indicate in your post that you are jaded with ALL content, including infinite content.  DE needs to focus on Warframe's core gameplay, but to do that they need to cut out distractions like infinite content, weapon powercreep, and ability exploitation.  Players need to be nerfed, and enemies need to be nerfed.   Then DE can mold the game into what it has the potential to be, but from a less extreme [re]starting point that actually allows things to be tweaked without causing a ripple effect of problems in numerous flawed systems that have diverged too far from their origins in the past few years of development.  

[DamienTokala]

as proven by the existence of MK1 weapons and mastery rank locked weapons, not everything is meant to be on the same tier. so i don't feel that other weapons are under-performing at all. they are simply not of the right level. 

 

synoid gammacore is -THE- baseline for next tier level damage, and i expect new weapons will fall in line and perform close to it, or just as capable. however, lets not forget, we have opticor, an extremely terrifying light cannon, which just so happens to be less popular because people don't have the patience to wait for it's charge (same as ogris) we have the boltor prime, which frankly in my opinion can outperform the SG on so many levels, we have the scindo prime, dear god, 5k per strike, 6k if you have the right mods! we have soma, even STANDARD soma can give the SG a run for its money if you take the time to forma and mod it right. then we have any single freaking bow, capable of one shot dropping bosses, you want to cry OP, look at those.

 

given time and patience, any single weapon can become a viable end game item with the exception of MK1 melee items, or the gun blade items (seriously DE, akjagara was downright pitiful, redeemer is pitiful, and whetever that other thing is supposed to be... )

 

quit bellyaching over a weapon that just so happens to steal your kills, this competitive mindset leads to incredibly toxic players. this is a co-op game, work together, win together. 

[Faulcun]

So your argument basically comes down to "other things are bad, so it's okay for this thing to be bad too"?

 

No, Im saying other things are JUST as bad. Dont be hypocritical by ignoring them. If we are going to talk about balance, then lets talk about balance. Not just this one weapon that will have no effect on anything, just because you dont like seeing all the new players with it.

 

When I give feedback and comment on these forums, I do so from a perspective that assumes that all the problems of this game will eventually be weeded out.  

 

Regarding weapon "investment," I am referring to potatoes, formas, and slots.  Many players, especially newer or more casual players, view leveling up weapons as a major investment decision, which is part of the reason there's so much "ONLY THE BEST BUILD" sentiment in player feedback.  

 

Regarding the fodderization of all but the best options and the lack of real challenge, I think if the gap between the best and the worst was pretty small then people wouldn't speak poorly about so many of our options all the time, in every thread.  Lowering the ceiling of weapon power would be a good start to introducing challenge to this game that makes sense for most equipment; you can't do that in the state that things are in now.  The start of Damage 2.0 was pretty balanced weapon-wise, except for certain things like Soma, explosives, Synapse, and the like.  An environment closer to that is far preferable to the situation we have now.  

 

As for DE supporting the wrong ideas in the playerbase, we can only hope that improves.  Actually rebalancing existing weapon options and fixing things like armor scaling would certainly be a positive step.  

 

Seems like you're an infinite content player but you indicate in your post that you are jaded with ALL content, including infinite content.  DE needs to focus on Warframe's core gameplay, but to do that they need to cut out distractions like infinite content, weapon powercreep, and ability exploitation.  Players need to be nerfed, and enemies need to be nerfed.   Then DE can mold the game into what it has the potential to be, but from a less extreme [re]starting point that actually allows things to be tweaked without causing a ripple effect of problems in numerous flawed systems that have diverged too far from their origins in the past few years of development.  

 

Seems like you and I are on the same page, just taking different paths to get there. However, we differ in that I assume that many problems will be pushed aside to make way for new content. Then the new content will be focused on for immediate fixes, then whatever left over will be pushed aside again to make way for more content.

 

Because this is a free to play game, they have to focus on new content so they can pay the bills. Its understandable, but unfortunate at the same time. That means its unlikely that everything will be addressed eventually. Even if it is, its also unlikely that you or I will be around to see it.

[Evanescent]

There's already means to counteract Nullifiers and Bombards, Prime weapons actually tend to be very well balanced (only potential outlier is Boltor Prime, and some Prime weapons actually need some buffs. Looking at you, Sicarus Prime), frame abilities seem pretty well balanced now, and ... clantech weapons? If anything, those needs a ton of buffs.

 

You do realize that 48k is still far more than most other secondaries? Only one that can come close is the Brakk, and that's around 30k (and it's burst, not sustained).

 

Phage is a primary, not a secondary.

You know what? At higher levels I have to hold that synoid gammacor down for 1 enemy to die for like 2-3 seconds. Enough for the others to kill me outright. The fact that it is a continuous fire weapon is one of its biggest cons. You have to make sure your beam is focused on 1 enemy long enough to kill it. In t4, if you make it kill bombards you're going to take a while to kill the gunners, and the vice versa applies as well. Plus if you use my build you'll find that you are running out of ammo frequently because of the sheer ammo loss per button press due to anemic agility and gunslinger. not to mention that a really functional build with QoL mods brings the DPS down quite a bit, and the Brakk has had that level of damage for quite a while.

 

Oh.

Burst DPS is BullS#&amp;&#036;.

Utter, total BullS#&amp;&#036;.

Quit staring at numbers and get in the game, enjoy the game!

 

If you feel forced to use a weapon because it's so effective  then I feel sorry for you. I prefer my Mara Detron and Vasto Prime over the synoid anyday erryday. Not because I don't like the synoid but I get more satisfaction from the two than I ever did from synoid. The opposite may be true. The guys who continually chase efficiency and numbers end up being the first to burn out because they make the game into a chore. The reason I've not had a burnout despite two years of gametime is because I play for fun, not for efficiency and DPS. 

[Fionntan]

Just gonna stop by and say this, it may or may be mentioned but I just need get this off my chest....

 

This gun lvl buff is fine as it is due to its difficulty on obtaining it.

 

100k Rep is need which is almost 3 daily caps at most, and thats if you rep farm....

 

Plus fact need to work up ranks to get to Rank 5 on Suda and sacrifice tons credits/resources/parts.

 

and then make the gun, another downtime in itself.

 

Yes you can trade/buy plat for it but that's "if" you got plat to get one... you cant even buy it directly in DE's store....

 

and then taking account the amount formas it needs to optimized said gun... oh don't forget the rare mods!

 

Jebus folks, if most you didnt realized it becomes obsolete around late game 45+ above lvl enemies. You cant even one shot Vor to begin with! (Taking into account God-Tier = 1 shot gg)

 

In short, the time it needs to reach that point is astronomical in comparison to Prime and Non-Prime/Syndicate Weapons... in view of starting out fresh from the get go.

 

 

/rant

 

PS:

 

DE if your read this just leave it be... if you really feel incline for a change tweak ammo efficiency. The rest is up to you. 

 

 

PSS:

 

Sorry if I rustled some you but this needed to be said... 

[Suthurn]

It doesnt even matter because almost all  weaponry can be modded to the point of trivialization to standard level content. Its not like we get any kind of bonus for extra unused damage on enemies. Any magical number above the point of death does nothing for anybody or have any different effect other than death.

 

If you hit a level 20 enemy for 80,000 damage, or you use a latron and hit them for 3,000 damage, they still die all the same just as fast.

 

The whole obsession over the gammacor is silly. This is a player problem, not a weapon problem.

 

i agree with what you are saying, but at some point you are probably going to get interested in doing things like long survivals or defense in the void or some such endeavors. 

 

it doesn't take long to figure out that fast-firing rifle starts having serious issues around 40 minutes with ammo consumption, or the mid-tier weapon isn't really killing things fast enough to stop you from taking too much damage, and so on and on. 

 

when people sit at that point of the game for a while they will start to recognize that only certain weapons and certain frames can really get the job done.    ...and then we get the overpowered/underpowered posts on the forums.

 

if the game ended at pluto, then sure, just about any weapon and frame in the game is perfectly fine if you max it out.  if only... 

[Maiemi]

I think that the rakta ballistica (6 forma) are stronger now than synoid Gammacor