This Was Very Poorly Designed Around Players With Arsenal Full Of Mods And Proves That Raids Consisting Of Lvl80 Enemies Isnt A Good Idea.

[Killerkarpfen]

This TA has nothing to do with Raids.

[Tymerc]

Auras are going to be pretty overpowered in Raids. Aside from the CP spam, just think of things like 8 Rejuvenations, or 8 Energy Siphons.

 

You would be at healing factor levels of health regeneration with the former, and would never run out of energy with the latter.

 

Hell, even 8 Steel Charges or Rfile Amps would be ridiculous.

[Suthurn]

just shows that, once again, DE idea of challenge is exploiting gimmicks to get the win.

 

...and players wonder why half the frames and most the weapons in the game are considered garbage. when the designers make the challenges based on requiring gimmicks to win, what do you expect to happen?

[Ratisfaction]

Banshee, Oberon and frost and we had no troubles just ptfo

[LythronaxPrime]

So much complaining, this wasn't even that hard, I managed to win with only 3 people. And why is everyone so convinced that this is exactly what raids are going to be like? this was just something DE made for people who want an excessive challenge, calm the hell down.

[Invisum]

I really think most people are taking this too seriously. More than likely the dev's were at work fixing the bug in the Tactical Alert causing ridiculous spawn levels and noticed several things on the forums mentioning that  people actually enjoyed the tougher enemies and just decided, what the hek, why not? And threw in a quick mission designed to play with that.

 

Personally, I found it quite enjoyable. Yes the enemies could deal outright cheap amounts of damage and, yes, you needed certain abilities, but it was the most challenging thing in Warframe I've played for awhile. 

[ImaizumiKagerou]

You don't need 4CP. My clanmates and I ran with loki , ash , nova and banshee.

 

Savage Silence is op for clearing enemies with melee.I think I ohko'd a napalm with a finisher

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

This TA has nothing to do with Raids.

I think you're missing his point. What he's saying is that, like this alert, the Raids will likely require frames capable of perma CC/invulnerability as well as specific mod combinations because that's the only way to do high level gameplay like this. Raids, in effect, reduce our choice. In the process, by using these things we remove almost all the difficulty because we've either completely CC locked the enemies or we're dead. We're either invulnerable or dead. So it alternates between hopeless if you don't use the correct setup (not fun for most), or ridiculously easy if you do.

EDIT: I don't have an issue with the TA. Those I consider different, and more made to challenge our loadout ability. However, that should not be reflected in the raid. A good loadout should make the game easier, but not have such a drastic difference.

Edited February 27, 2015 by (PS4)WiiConquered

[ensignvidiot]

I think you're missing his point. What he's saying is that, like this alert, the Raids will likely require frames capable of perma CC/invulnerability as well as specific mod combinations because that's the only way to do high level gameplay like this. Raids, in effect, reduce our choice. In the process, by using these things we remove almost all the difficulty because we've either completely CC locked the enemies or we're dead. We're either invulnerable or dead. So it alternates between hopeless if you don't use the correct setup (not fun for most), or ridiculously easy if you do.

 

Yep./

 

which is why they are being marketed as endgame content

 

in fact. look at what is needed to beat any raid in any game. Check the strats and you'll see that they have reccommened gear, abilities, characters, levels, even where you are suppose to be.

 

Raids arent for new folk.

Or folk that like things easy

 

They, and this TA are geared towards people saying they need and want a challenge. But hey, every challenge is just a puzzle, once you find a solution that works, and you apply it... the challenge is gone, because you defeated it.

 

If you hate it. Dont play it.

Im still having a blast figuring out what works and what doesnt here for escalation.

[taiiat]

Hell, even 8 Steel Charges or Rfile Amps would be ridiculous.

actually, that would be about a 1.5x Damage increase in total for all eight. 1.75x tops.

[Davoodoo]

So much complaining, this wasn't even that hard, I managed to win with only 3 people. And why is everyone so convinced that this is exactly what raids are going to be like? this was just something DE made for people who want an excessive challenge, calm the hell down.

This wasnt hard, it was revolving around specific gear and powers.

 

Its not that raids are gonna be interception with lvl150 enemies.

But horde of lvl80 enemies wont be any different to approach than this, loki to disarm, slow nova to render harmless and then just shoot them down, rinse and repeat.

This means range heavy loki with duration heavy nova and 4cps to render their armor useless, now pack at least 15k dps gun and whatever else you bring wont matter.

 

This TA has nothing to do with Raids.

Im pretty sure that ppl are aware of that, however that doesnt change much, whole gameplay against higher lvled enemies looks exactly like this TA.

 

Nothing changed except majority of players had a reason to play against high lvl enemies and prepare properly for them.

Many of them failed, before i did it with clan i tried with pug, simply couldnt do it, not because these ppl couldnt play, but because they didnt have cps, or havent maxed specific frame, many mr18 guys out there havent done that.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Davoodoo

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Yep./

 

which is why they are being marketed as endgame content

 

in fact. look at what is needed to beat any raid in any game. Check the strats and you'll see that they have reccommened gear, abilities, characters, levels, even where you are suppose to be.

 

Raids arent for new folk.

Or folk that like things easy

 

They, and this TA are geared towards people saying they need and want a challenge. But hey, every challenge is just a puzzle, once you find a solution that works, and you apply it... the challenge is gone, because you defeated it.

 

If you hate it. Dont play it.

Im still having a blast figuring out what works and what doesnt here for escalation.

If endgame content removes/alienates styles of play that were fine throughout the game, where's the progression?

I personally think the problem is our strongest abilities and weapons are too strong and unbalanced, leading to these things being necessary to provide challenge.

[Anubias]

besides to you expect lvl 0 and mr0 players to get to the same places with high level players who invested lot of time and effort for their gear ?

[Djego27]

I agree with the OP, it is kind of stupid and the way to play it has nothing to do with melee weapons.

 

Actually what I did come up with and did host was retrospective a bit over the top, even if all other players that I recruited did doubt it would work when I was explaining my plan before we started. After failing a few times with the trinity and excalibur setup because of the lack of killspeed and lack of CC, I was trying out something different and it worked so good that the level wouldn't have mattered at all. A nova makes things go slow but there is another frame that nobody thinks of and nobody requests but if you add it on top of it, can change slow to nearly full stop(nothing was able to get to the consoles during the rounds and disarmed units did need like 30s to finish a melee attack or 60s to recover from a knockdown). Our loki didn't even bother to use the cloak in the end. =)

Edited February 27, 2015 by Djego27

[Davoodoo]

besides to you expect lvl 0 and mr0 players to get to the same places with high level players who invested lot of time and effort for their gear ?

No i want group of 8 friends which all enjoy their favorite frosts, put 5 forma in it each with their favorite paris primes which they put 6 forma in to be able to complete it.

 

If you think they havent done enough to enjoy raids then idk what to say.

[Monolake]

 

Only 3k, less than 1% of all players managed to clear it so far, rest either dont care, isnt around or dont have enough gear to fulfill 5 step program.

 

 

 

Thats not a proper interpretation of those stats.  According to Steamcharts 22k players were in the game at that moment.  Probably half of them are noobs who didnt even unlock it and people who don't meet the arbitrary weapon requirement lock (who keeps or builds Galatines these days).

And in just 1 hr 3000 people already beat the alert. Thats a very substantial number. 

 

To me it's a showcase of broken difficulty of the game. Even when facing  high-level enemies AND with ridiculous weapon limits most people still beat it using frame powers alone.

 I had said it in other topics about raids: 8 players is an absolute overkill. Game balance is uttery broken even for 4 players, I don't even see a way to fix it.  Putting up nonsense restriction - like these tactical alerts do - is not a proper way and it doesn't even work. (weapon restrictions in a game about collecting and levelling up your weapons is absurd way to balance high-level content if you think about it)

 

If anything it was an experiment that had to be done, Now what do we make out of it?  I don't feel good for DE. You cant fix the balance after years of ignoring it.

[ensignvidiot]

If endgame content removes/alienates styles of play that were fine throughout the game, where's the progression?

I personally think the problem is our strongest abilities and weapons are too strong and unbalanced, leading to these things being necessary to provide challenge.

 

The progression is imposed and implied.

Its everything you need to do. to get to that level of play.

[MrNonApplicable]

This TA has nothing to do with Raids.

The point you are missing is that both use super high level scaling. And while it is beatable it locks down choices of frames and gear. It pushes 'the meta', that only a certain few frames and weps are worth using and that all others are trash.

Considering DE said this year they would tackle the ugly beast of powercreep this idea seems like a huge step backwards.

 

This sorta of cheap replacement for challenge will turn so many choices into false choices.

And like people have said, it's either impossible, or easy, but slow and boring because the squad perma cc's.

Edited February 27, 2015 by MrNonApplicable

[ensignvidiot]

Thats not a proper interpretation of those stats.  According to Steamcharts 22k players were in the game at that moment.  Probably half of them are noobs who didnt even unlock it and people who don't meet the arbitrary weapon requirement lock (who keeps or builds Galatines these days).

And in just 1 hr 3000 people already beat the alert. Thats a very substantial number. 

 

To me it's a showcase of broken difficulty of the game. Even when facing  high-level enemies AND with ridiculous weapon limits most people still beat it using frame powers alone.

 I had said it in other topics about raids: 8 players is an absolute overkill. Game balance is uttery broken even for 4 players, I don't even see a way to fix it.  Putting up nonsense restriction - like these tactical alerts do - is not a proper way and it doesn't even work. (weapon restrictions in a game about collecting and levelling up your weapons is absurd way to balance high-level content if you think about it)

 

If anything it was an experiment that had to be done, Now what do we make out of it?  I don't feel good for DE. You cant fix the balance after years of ignoring it.

 

And i think that its fine. While things are unbalanced, they are hardly broken

 

its all about figuring out HOW to overcome Obsticle X

 

X, in this case, is level 100 enemies with only a greatsword

 

People solved the equation, its hardly a testament to how bad the game is. It shows how good players are at finding out what works when they are HEAVILY LIMITED (400 Conclave MAX).

THose thousands of people that finished it already? They figured out the Tactical bit of the Tactical Alert

 

These same people are likely going to be the ones writing guides for raids, as every single game has a group that beats it first just to show others how to do the same

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

The progression is imposed and implied.

Its everything you need to do. to get to that level of play.

Then why do we even have melee? Why abilities like Slash Dash that are clearly not going to be of much help? Why frames like Ember with the same problem? Is endgame just Boltor Prime, Synoid, and CC/perma-invisibility? Because there's too much in this game for that to be the case.

[Davoodoo]

And i think that its fine. While things are unbalanced, they are hardly broken

 

its all about figuring out HOW to overcome Obsticle X

 

X, in this case, is level 100 enemies with only a greatsword

 

People solved the equation, its hardly a testament to how bad the game is. It shows how good players are at finding out what works when they are HEAVILY LIMITED (400 Conclave MAX).

THose thousands of people that finished it already? They figured out the Tactical bit of the Tactical Alert

 

These same people are likely going to be the ones writing guides for raids, as every single game has a group that beats it first just to show others how to do the same

If we already beaten enemies which can oneshot us, what else is there to beat??

 

We broke difficulty, since even higher enemies wont be a bigger problem, theyll just take longer to kill.

 

All there is that can make our life harder is gimping us even more than 400cc melee only limit.

But what would be the point of our 1000+ hour grind if only thing thats difficult is running without everything we unlocked.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Davoodoo

[Tymerc]

actually, that would be about a 1.5x Damage increase in total for all eight. 1.75x tops.

 

And when you use things like the Opticor that do massive damage, it will cause it to wreck level 80+ enemies like nothing, in regards to Rifle Amp.

 

But enough about that. 

Edited February 27, 2015 by Tymerc

[StellaPotato]

New TA ofc, what else.

 

Whats wrong with it??

1) got loki??

2) got 4 corrosive proejctions??

3) got fully modded scindo or galantine with viral build??(viral helps alot, not necessary though)

4) got enough energy restores or trin??

5) got some slow nova or vortex vauban

 

If you fulfilled 5 above requirments you can enjoy mindlessly slashing enemies which cant retaliate because if they somehow manage to retaliate, you are dead.

 

Thats what this new TA represents and that is how raids are gonna look like, except step 3, it will be replaced with something else.

Only 3k, less than 1% of all players managed to clear it so far, rest either dont care, isnt around or dont have enough gear to fulfill 5 step program.

 

It aint hard, its just stupid.

 

Edit: ppl i know you could probably ignore everything above, bring 4 valkyrs or perma invis lokis and still make it, 5 step program is just surefire way for any group, still some hard cc, perma invis or hysteria is needed.

true true, except for the tiny part where your wrong in every way.

i went in

i was  mesa, i had saryn, and a nyx and another saryn, not once did we use our powers, we just melee'd this is not an accurate sign of raids,

kindly like.

oh idk.

think stuff through

 

this is nothing in the vaguest way like raid in any sense of the word. 

[StellaPotato]

Auras are going to be pretty overpowered in Raids. Aside from the CP spam, just think of things like 8 Rejuvenations, or 8 Energy Siphons.

 

You would be at healing factor levels of health regeneration with the former, and would never run out of energy with the latter.

 

Hell, even 8 Steel Charges or Rfile Amps would be ridiculous.

nope nope.

 

 

clearly it wont proc that high,

you would get 4 corrosives, 4 regen, not 8.

dont be silly,

thats like the first thing thier gonna think of .

[ensignvidiot]

Then why do we even have melee? Why abilities like Slash Dash that are clearly not going to be of much help? Why frames like Ember with the same problem? Is endgame just Boltor Prime, Synoid, and CC/perma-invisibility? Because there's too much in this game for that to be the case.

 

Explain the logical leap from my comment to this thought please.

 

If we already beaten enemies which can oneshot us, what else is there to beat??

 

We broke difficulty, since even higher enemies wont be a bigger problem, theyll just take longer to kill.

 

All there is that can make our life harder is gimping us even more than 400cc melee only limit.

But what would be the point of our 1000+ hour grind if only thing thats difficult is running without everything we unlocked.

 

Can you please elaborate more on your line of thought?