Loki Is Just Too Strong

[.Czern]

Irridiating Disarm is plain broken, and has to go IMO.

I see Loki now as frame of choice for people who can't stand dying in games (perma invis) or people who love crowd control. Nerfing Loki? Maybe Invisibility... or RD's range. I don't think we really need it. But RD's augment is completely broken.

 

I'd rather sit down and thought about CC abilities in general, just look how recent tac was trivialized by them. "150-lvl enemies? Haha, they can't even move/attack!"

[EX-Zanki]

To the op, first... that solo requires some skill... or you.. or your friends could solo escalation with Loki?... at least i know i can't

 

Your arguments points toward his advantages... but you seem to neglect his weaknesses

 

- Just by reading his stats he is very squishy (low health, low shields,¿armor?) the only things that keeps him alive are his powers.

- He is very dependant on energy, one smash from magnetic proc and he is pretty much screwed.

- None of his powers dispatch enemies whatsoever.

- Requires late game mods to be usable in high skirmishes. (not newbie friendly).

- Very limited usage in infested maps. (Radial disarm is useless here without augment, invis is negated by area of effect attacks, typical decoy tactics are useless here, switch teleport is not viable except to escape and you could still be surrounded)

 

 

And that is great, all that (advantages and disadvantages including he not requiring strength mods are part of his uniqueness) yeah stay all the invisible you want until you are hit by a stray bullet...or area of effect attacks.

 

Loki had almost no changes in two years you know why?... because he is balanced in comparison to early game rhino, valkyr invulnerability (not invis... here you do not take damage unless you are afk) or full cure duration trinity.

 

It's funny... that same Loki you say is "too stronk" (hate that term) was demmed as under powered around 2 years ago...people said radial disarm doesn't kill anything...

 

And please Loki press 4 to win?... ok go to any open map in the solar system... get enemies around you and cast full range irradial disarm, then don't do anything... go to the bathroom, take a glass of water or whatever you like, come back and see if you are not dead or being hit by the same enemies affected by your ID .

 

...then do the same with full strengh excalibur. Then tell me who requires Homer's drinking bird...

[Pizzarugi]

Loki is a utility frame, practically all of his abilities cannot kill enemies past midgame. He is a good stealth and CC frame (especially with irradiated disarm), but that's all he brings to the table. It takes skill to make full use of Loki, but he can wreck extremely hard when mastered.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Pizzarugi

[sanj66]

To the op, first... that solo requires some skill... or you.. or your friends could solo escalation with Loki?... at least i know i can't

 

Your arguments points toward his advantages... but you seem to neglect his weaknesses

 

- Just by reading his stats he is very squishy (low health, low shields,¿armor?) the only things that keeps him alive are his powers.

- He is very dependant on energy, one smash from magnetic proc and he is pretty much screwed.

- None of his powers dispatch enemies whatsoever.

- Requires late game mods to be usable in high skirmishes. (not newbie friendly).

- Very limited usage in infested maps. (Radial disarm is useless here without augment, invis is negated by area of effect attacks, typical decoy tactics are useless here, switch teleport is not viable except to escape and you could still be surrounded)

 

 

And that is great, all that (advantages and disadvantages including he not requiring strength mods are part of his uniqueness) yeah stay all the invisible you want until you are hit by a stray bullet...or area of effect attacks.

 

Loki had almost no changes in two years you know why?... because he is balanced in comparison to early game rhino, valkyr invulnerability (not invis... here you do not take damage unless you are afk) or full cure duration trinity.

 

It's funny... that same Loki you say is "too stronk" (hate that term) was demmed as under powered around 2 years ago...people said radial disarm doesn't kill anything...

 

And please Loki press 4 to win?... ok go to any open map in the solar system... get enemies around you and cast full range irradial disarm, then don't do anything... go to the bathroom, take a glass of water or whatever you like, come back and see if you are not dead or being hit by the same enemies affected by your ID .

 

...then do the same with full strengh excalibur. Then tell me who requires Homer's drinking bird...

loki is the strongest frame in game atm and always was, he trivializes content, requires the easiest build and has the least downsides of a corrupted build, he also has instead of damage mitigation or reduction, his invisibility grants him damage avoidance with stealth and also grants him melee damage boosts with higher crit chance and damage. his #4 is probably the strongest in game, it has no duration can be infinitely spammed with no power in use mechanic once you have energy and the fact that it has no duration means a max rank fleeting wont affect it. he has the best synergy amongst his powers and he can solo every game mode with ease, yet you say he is not op? just remember excal RJ only works up to a certain mob level, all of loki's skills scale infinitely.

[climatiseur]

For those who said  "he can still be hit by area effects / bullets during invisibility" - that's why he has radial disarm.

 

And now he has irradiating disarm to compensate his weakness towards infested.

 

I think there should be at least a timer for radial disarm, given that it is recastable. Or make it invalid to enemies who are already using melee eg powerfist, prod crewman etc.

[EX-Zanki]

loki is the strongest frame in game atm and always was, he trivializes content, requires the easiest build and has the least downsides of a corrupted build, he also has instead of damage mitigation or reduction, his invisibility grants him damage avoidance with stealth and also grants him melee damage boosts with higher crit chance and damage. his #4 is probably the strongest in game, it has no duration can be infinitely spammed with no power in use mechanic once you have energy and the fact that it has no duration means a max rank fleeting wont affect it. he has the best synergy amongst his powers and he can solo every game mode with ease, yet you say he is not op? just remember excal RJ only works up to a certain mob level, all of loki's skills scale infinitely.

 

Oh my,

"loki is the strongest frame in game atm and always was, he trivializes content"  ----only your opinion, nothing else.

"requires the easiest build and has the least downsides of a corrupted build" ---- You know there is a frame named Nyx...wiil give you a tip , she doesn't need strength mods.

"his invisibility grants him damage avoidance" --- no, he becomes untargetable, is not the same.. damage avoidance is valkyrs thing...

"with higher crit chance" , just no --- please inform yourself better.

"his #4 is probably the strongest in game" ----your opinion again, there is nothing bad with that...but it's just an opinion.

"and the fact that it has no duration means a max rank fleeting wont affect it" ---- like many other warframe powers that are not affected by duration, it is and advantage... but not a huge one...or unique...

"he has the best synergy amongst his powers" --- that's right... you got it right!!! does that makes him OP?

"he can solo every game mode" --- Like Nova?, or Nyx?,

"with ease" --- maybe if the player is skillful enough, other frames are not excluded tough...

"yet you say he is not op" --- Yes...

"all of loki's skills scale infinitely" --- Yeah specially the decoy of doom!!!, ehmm.. I'm very sure other non damaging powers scale too...

 

Opinions by themselves are not bad, biased opinions are dangerous.

 

Loki is a very good warframe, irradiated disarm made him part of the "meta" that leads to players talk about nerfing... i like to think he is more than that..

 

By anything... i prefer buffing other warframes instead of nerfing well implemented ones... of course not excalibur's kind of buff...

Edited March 4, 2015 by EX-Zanki

[CapedBaldy]

Loki is ridiculously easy to play and ridiculously strong. My friend who nearly exclusively plays Loki agrees too.

Edited March 4, 2015 by CapedBaldy

[DaveC]

Also,just  a heads up.

 

Those who say Loki is OP.....Please go play with Limbo......At first glance,Limbo sucks. Play with it properly and you will see,he is crazy strong. I myself solo'ed Phoenix Intercept Escalation with Limbo. I was standing in the middle of all the enemies,yawning and saying to myself,"This is boring with Limbo."

 

How, I tried to solo it with Limbo as soon as the alert appeared. If you try and cap towers, they simply run towards you if your rift walking (because it attracts them) and you can't cap fast enough. If you even manage to get past wave 1, How did you kill them without getting killed first, I would love to know how you did it?

Edited March 4, 2015 by DaveC

[nekrojiji]

I was using the Iradiating disarm also ...... to make them fight outside the capture zones so I could capture all the points.

[NN13]

How, I tried to solo it with Limbo as soon as the alert appeared. If you try and cap towers, they simply run towards you if your rift walking (because it attracts them) and you can't cap fast enough. If you even manage to get past wave 1, How did you kill them without getting killed first, I would love to know how you did it?

I capped B first. The farthest point. I had 2 enemies spawn before capping anything. I killed those first.

Once I capped B, air-melee'ed to C. Enemies were apparently busy uncapping B. Then I got A. Atlast,I got D. I stood there with Riftwalk. When round ended,I was still in Riftwalk. I banished one enemy at a time and used finisher melee. If he didn't die,I unbanished him and banished him again. Rinse and repeat untill everyone died. Then from 2nd round onward,enemies spawned after I capped one point. I just capped the farthest one(B),moved quickly to A or C while enemies were busy re-capping B. Being Solo,capping was lightning fast.

 

It took a long time but it was easy.

 

P.S. - To recast Riftwalk,I air-melee'ed to the rock above the elevator,just to avoid getting one-shotted.

Edited March 4, 2015 by NN13

[NN13]

Loki is ridiculously easy to play and ridiculously strong. My friend who nearly exclusively plays Loki agrees too.

There are others who are easier to play and are stronger than Loki.

 

Valkyr,the invulnerable tank in the game can become immune to damage for a maximum of 77 seconds. And while in that state,she can kill without worrying about stray bullets hitting her.

Loki has to worry about stray bullets or Prova(if he disarmed the enemies),even if he is invisible,both of which have enough damage to one-shot Loki at higher levels.

 

Nyx,can take all the enemy damage and give it back to them,killing them instantly. Loki can't kill with abilities. While Warframes with damage abilities can go in a mission with not-so-good weapons,Loki and non-damaging Warframes can't. A general drawback of utility warframes.

 

Nova,can make the enemies so slow that it almost seems that they are frozen. And then she can shoot one enemy doing 200% damage and the whole room goes BOOM!

 

Ash,can go invisible just like Loki,but he also has the highest damage dealing ability in the game. Play with Ash and you will realise Loki is nothing compared to his Bladestorm and the slash procs from it. Sure death to enemies even at relatively higher levels where other abilities fail.

 

And this list goes on.

 

What Loki is good at is Solo'ing. Like many others. Nyx,Valkyr and Ash can solo a game mode equally well.

 

But,why complain about the good thing only.

 

Loki has it's downsides.

 

In normal level gameplay,Loki players are like "WTH! Let me kill a few things!". Because other Warframes can kill 30 enemies in one go,Loki feels useless.

 

So,yeah,Loki is neither "ridiculously easy to play" nor is it "ridiculously strong". If anything,that title should probably go to Ash or Valkyr.

Edited March 4, 2015 by NN13

[climatiseur]

I don't think killing things slower in lower level missions can be called a downside. If you can survive and take them all out ultimately, it's just a matter of time.

 

Besides, some mission don't really need you to take out all enemies to complete.

 

 

Valkyr,the invulnerable tank in the game came become immune to damage for a maximum of 77 seconds. And while in that state,she can kill without worrying about stray bullets hitting her.

Loki has to worry about stray bullets or Prova(if he disarmed the enemies),even if he is invisible,both of which have enough damage to one-shot Loki at higher levels.

 

Nyx,can take all the enemy damage and give it back to them,killing them instantly. Loki can't kill with abilities. While Warframes with damage abilities can go in a mission with not-so-good weapons,Loki and non-damaging Warframes can't. A general drawback of utility warframes.

 

Nova,can make the enemies so slow that it almost seems that they are frozen. And then she can shoot one enemy doing 200% damage and the whole room goes BOOM!

 

Ash,can go invisible just like Loki,but he also has the highest damage dealing ability in the game. Play with Ash and you will realise Loki is nothing compared to his Bladestorm and the slash procs from it. Sure death to enemies even at relatively higher levels where other abilities fail.

 

And this list goes on.

 

 

The examples you gave aren't strong enough:

 

Valkyr: while being invincible, her attacks are low and having no stealth bonus as Loki. She also suffers from being seen, which means having higher risks while it goes out than invisible.

 

Nyx- Absorb goes out in a sec in high level, and cannot kill enemies. After it ends, she goes down instantly.

 

Nova - even they are slow, take a bullet and she's down. She relies help from teammates, heavily.

 

Ash - no doubt the damage is huge (which falls off at some point nonetheless) but, During the animation, he is stucked. So if he is in a team, he cannot offer other help immediately. If solo, the moment he stops is the time being vulnerable. Again enemies shoot him easily. 

 

They are not easier to play nor stronger than Loki.

Because invisibility + recastable radial disarm really really make things easy. There are no other abilities can make things as easy (relatively) as this combo.

 

Actually, I think the only problem of him is Radial Disarm (Irradiating Disarm). And the fact that the enemies having no tactics to deal with invisibility (well Nullifier is the first one), actually not only to loki but also ash, and sentinels and kubrows. I think the coming new enemies may have something to deal with it.

Edited March 4, 2015 by climatiseur

[Rakosta_Kai]

 

theres always a easy mode warframe for noobs and the skillless

by default it was always rhino 

but now the game has evolved and loki has taken the throne as the go to FOTM noob warframe for easy mode gameplay

 

without this option a vast majority couldnt get anywhere in the game without their crutches

are we cruel to ask for this to be taken away from them ? 

 

if people want challenge and to improve their skills they can play any of the other hard mod derp warframes and achieve great honor and integrity as a fine tenno warrior or just live with the shame and dishonor of being reliant on their lowly scrublord loki crutch

 

 

Hmm... That's a trifle high-handed.

So you are actually saying that frames that offer utility and scalability need to be nerfed.

 

Remove all CC/utility from the game then...

 

If a frame can CC, remove those abilities...

If a frame can stealth, remove those abilities...

If a frame can mitigate damage, remove those abilities too...

If a frame can do anything that isn't face tanking or face planting, those skills need removing.

 

Because, by your logic, those are just crutches for the weak.

 

Surely, no one actually has to point out the irony in your statements to you when we apply your proposed logic to the whole game, as opposed to just one frame, right ?

 

Maybe not choice of noobs,but certainly a choice of new players.

 

You will see way more new players who use Rhino than new players using other frames.

 

This is because of 2 reasons -

 

1. Rhino is too good at low-mid level. He can soak in all the damage and CC from enemies and can do good amount of damage.

 

2. Rhino is the first warframe available through gameplay. It's on Venus. So,new players tend to make atleast one new warframe other than their starter frame and they feel its easier to just get Rhino. Because it takes way longer to unlock other planets. It's human psychology. People want to try out new things and go for the most easily obtainable new thing.

It's also the only frame with an MR requirement...

As such, You actually can't be a brand new player and play Rhino.

Rhino is also the frame with the highest required skill cap, both in play and modding, in late game.

You can say he's OP in early game, but so is every other frame.

That's because early game is easy...

You can say it's the n00bs frame of choice... But that's only because posters on this forum point him at n00bs when they come on the forums asking for help.

[Rakosta_Kai]

People just want to nerf everything don't they? Even if they don't need it.

^ Pretty much this.

[rockscl]

basically, what you show here is that a big enough interruption can win any interception mission, no matter the level of the foes, thats a nice finding, but its not just because of loki, its because of:

 

1. energy system enabling you to cast 4 the whole mission

 

2. the terminal hacking mechanic that doesnt require actually killing the unit

 

3. the existence of "global" cc, by global i mean that radial skills can be big enough to cover the 4 targets in one cast

 

4. enemy AI vs permanent invisibility, if you are playing solo they will not even try shooting at the air, if you cast skills the AI should notice the energy spawned and shoot at its source, they cant be that dumb can they?

 

 

you have just shown how trivial are units in interception mode when this global cc exists plus the current energy system backing it, of course, if there were nullifiers this would be different, but i dont think grineer nullifiers is the solution, i think that in the short term, the fix is more in the recapture mechanics

Edited March 4, 2015 by rockscl

[BlitzkriegBob]

Well, Loki is just a living proof that utility>damage at endgame. Needs a nerf? Nah. It's pretty well balanced and, as stated in its description, a rewarding frame for advanced players. 

 

Escalation was a very "specific" event: OK, Loki shine at this specific kind of situation. Now, imagine the same with mutalist opsreys dropping poisonous gas all around the area, or just Ancients with poison aura wandering around... Loki and his small health pool will find himself much more in trouble... And some people will probably call valkyr's hysteria or Trinity Link OP.

 

Finaly, every frame has been called OP at a point by some people; must mean they are finally balanced... since they're all OP... So, well, leave Loki alone.

[(XBOX)Skode]

Who are we judging Loki on here? End game players with ultimate mod set ups for practically endless invisibility runs? Maxed range Radial Disarms?

 

He is a really good frame but you have to work on making him that way... newer players who get him will think hes very stealthy but hard to actually kick any &#! with... after all he is a no real direct damage frame and this more experience play means it was why DE changed him from being an original starter frame to the more newer player friendly Mag instead.

 

I enjoy playing as him and can see why some people can really make him an ideal frame for utility in a team or solo play alike but the very concept of a nerf of some sort if laughable. His only fault is he does what he is supposed to and does it well... people are used to big flaws in most of the frames, his is he simply doesnt deal big damage but high end players get around that comfortable given how much damage they can deal with a syndicate weapon or prime set up instead.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

Let's get to the topic behind the topic, good sir:

What is your favorite frame and how can we buff him/her so that you feel on par with Loki and assuage your feelings of discrimination? :).

The thing is, Loki works as the benchmark for game design as a frame. Other frames simply need to be brought up to par.

I main Volt, the other "utility" frame, and use Loki as the benchmark. It's why I want to see a base speed buff for Volt-it would make him so much better with all his abilities.

[climatiseur]

Well, Loki is just a living proof that utility>damage at endgame. Needs a nerf? Nah. It's pretty well balanced and, as stated in its description, a rewarding frame for advanced players. 

 

Escalation was a very "specific" event: OK, Loki shine at this specific kind of situation. Now, imagine the same with mutalist opsreys dropping poisonous gas all around the area, or just Ancients with poison aura wandering around... Loki and his small health pool will find himself much more in trouble... And some people will probably call valkyr's hysteria or Trinity Link OP.

 

Finaly, every frame has been called OP at a point by some people; must mean they are finally balanced... since they're all OP... So, well, leave Loki alone.

This alert was a specific mission type but not about enemies type. it's in doubt that there will ever be game modes like what you've mentioned. Also, most other frames won't have a chance either in your examples.

 

Besides, every frame should be rewarding advanced player. Your statement just shows that even yourself think Loki is more dominant to all of the others frames.

 

Let's get to the topic behind the topic, good sir:

What is your favorite frame and how can we buff him/her so that you feel on par with Loki and assuage your feelings of discrimination? :).

The thing is, Loki works as the benchmark for game design as a frame. Other frames simply need to be brought up to par.

I main Volt, the other "utility" frame, and use Loki as the benchmark. It's why I want to see a base speed buff for Volt-it would make him so much better with all his abilities.

You are certainly right on this. 

 

However, the big problem is there won't ever be a thing on par with disarming enemies  - forever - and being invisible at the same time concerning infinite leveling. If you ever think of one, I am all ears.

 

It is because this scaling is problematic, which cause all other abilities fall off at some point. If you need to bring all other frames on par, give them all an ability that disarm enemies forever. If anything else, it would just change this game into all about massive group controlling abilities, which is hazardous to the entire game environment. 

 

Please, people, provide an example that is not suitable / a drawback / limitation for using Radial Disarm (Irradiating Disarm).

Or else, give me a reason why should not people just go invisible and keep using Irradiating Disarm throughout any mission type to ensure successful.

People who has Loki, now just use other frames because it is fun, BUT NOT because other frames has any other advantages in any categories. (Again, killing enemies faster in lower level isn't really a true benefit in serious game mode)

 

The combo simply make enemies into non-existence. Which is not healthy in a game.

 

Of  course the endless scaling system, and enemies insufficient intelligence is the also main cause of this and actually needs attention (However it seems won't be coming shortly)

[sanj66]

Oh my,

"loki is the strongest frame in game atm and always was, he trivializes content"  ----only your opinion, nothing else.

"requires the easiest build and has the least downsides of a corrupted build" ---- You know there is a frame named Nyx...wiil give you a tip , she doesn't need strength mods.

"his invisibility grants him damage avoidance" --- no, he becomes untargetable, is not the same.. damage avoidance is valkyrs thing...

"with higher crit chance" , just no --- please inform yourself better.

"his #4 is probably the strongest in game" ----your opinion again, there is nothing bad with that...but it's just an opinion.

"and the fact that it has no duration means a max rank fleeting wont affect it" ---- like many other warframe powers that are not affected by duration, it is and advantage... but not a huge one...or unique...

"he has the best synergy amongst his powers" --- that's right... you got it right!!! does that makes him OP?

"he can solo every game mode" --- Like Nova?, or Nyx?,

"with ease" --- maybe if the player is skillful enough, other frames are not excluded tough...

"yet you say he is not op" --- Yes...

"all of loki's skills scale infinitely" --- Yeah specially the decoy of doom!!!, ehmm.. I'm very sure other non damaging powers scale too...

 

Opinions by themselves are not bad, biased opinions are dangerous.

 

Loki is a very good warframe, irradiated disarm made him part of the "meta" that leads to players talk about nerfing... i like to think he is more than that..

 

By anything... i prefer buffing other warframes instead of nerfing well implemented ones... of course not excalibur's kind of buff...

first off valkyr does not have damage avoidance she has invulnerability, aka damage immunity, being invisible where the enemy cant target you is damage avoidance. invisibility does grant melee damage boost. the aggro draw of decoy works at every level, that is its root function it scales, you pop decoy on any level of mobs it does draw aggro away from you. just because he doesnt have a damage skill doesnt mean he is not op or better than excal, he is better than excal and every other frame and thats not biased he is the strongest frame in game and irradiating disarm made it worse.

Edited March 4, 2015 by sanj66

[sanj66]

There are others who are easier to play and are stronger than Loki.

 

Valkyr,the invulnerable tank in the game can become immune to damage for a maximum of 77 seconds. And while in that state,she can kill without worrying about stray bullets hitting her.

Loki has to worry about stray bullets or Prova(if he disarmed the enemies),even if he is invisible,both of which have enough damage to one-shot Loki at higher levels.

 

Nyx,can take all the enemy damage and give it back to them,killing them instantly. Loki can't kill with abilities. While Warframes with damage abilities can go in a mission with not-so-good weapons,Loki and non-damaging Warframes can't. A general drawback of utility warframes.

 

Nova,can make the enemies so slow that it almost seems that they are frozen. And then she can shoot one enemy doing 200% damage and the whole room goes BOOM!

 

Ash,can go invisible just like Loki,but he also has the highest damage dealing ability in the game. Play with Ash and you will realise Loki is nothing compared to his Bladestorm and the slash procs from it. Sure death to enemies even at relatively higher levels where other abilities fail.

 

And this list goes on.

 

What Loki is good at is Solo'ing. Like many others. Nyx,Valkyr and Ash can solo a game mode equally well.

 

But,why complain about the good thing only.

 

Loki has it's downsides.

 

In normal level gameplay,Loki players are like "WTH! Let me kill a few things!". Because other Warframes can kill 30 enemies in one go,Loki feels useless.

 

So,yeah,Loki is neither "ridiculously easy to play" nor is it "ridiculously strong". If anything,that title should probably go to Ash or Valkyr.

valkyr has no range in hysteria she has to melee, plus she has almost no cc ability, loki has no downside of invis, you can use a silenced gun or you can shoot on the run, and in this game weapon damage > skill damage in most cases.

 

nyx is rooted in absorb and you can be killed when you release it and something shoots you, loki can invis, pop decoy when he is about to decloak or hide and decloak and recast, nyx cannot absorb and move, she cannot leave mobs unalerted, and loki gets damage buff to melee on invis.

 

nova can cc but loki does it better, in the game projectile damage from enemies are the major bane of players, under m prime enemies can still shoot at you just slow depending on your build or at a rate depending on what mods you have acquired. loki completely takes all that away and instantly and indefinitely unlike m prime which has to spread outwards at the enemy.

 

ash does do tonnes of damage but he has no cc ability, in a game where difficulty is scaled off of mob stats, cc is more important that damage as damage falls off while cc skills scale infinitely, loki has rd and the aggro mechanic of decoy, plus he has a longer invisibility duration than ash.

 

he is ridiculously easy to play, easiest to build and ridiculously strong, because you dont know how to use him that way or thinks he isnt doesnt discard that fact.

[sanj66]

Well, Loki is just a living proof that utility>damage at endgame. Needs a nerf? Nah. It's pretty well balanced and, as stated in its description, a rewarding frame for advanced players. 

 

Escalation was a very "specific" event: OK, Loki shine at this specific kind of situation. Now, imagine the same with mutalist opsreys dropping poisonous gas all around the area, or just Ancients with poison aura wandering around... Loki and his small health pool will find himself much more in trouble... And some people will probably call valkyr's hysteria or Trinity Link OP.

 

Finaly, every frame has been called OP at a point by some people; must mean they are finally balanced... since they're all OP... So, well, leave Loki alone.

what about loki is for advanced players? he can work better than other frames with non corrupted optimized builds, and comparing corrupted builds he gets even better. he is very easy to mod, and extremely easy to play. its true many frames have been called op but some wrongfully so, that does not discount that loki is genuinely op.

[EX-Zanki]

what about loki is for advanced players? he can work better than other frames with non corrupted optimized builds, and comparing corrupted builds he gets even better. he is very easy to mod, and extremely easy to play. its true many frames have been called op but some wrongfully so, that does not discount that loki is genuinely op.

 

Loki is not OP, he is MasterRace... it's different...

 

Give loki to a beginner... then post again... why do you think it was removed from the starting three?, because newbies couldn't play with him without switching to Rhino or other easy to play warframes or abandoning the game.. i personally met 3 of those guys, hence... it's for advanced players with the mods, knowledge, and certainly not newbie skills. Extremely easy to play... yeah whatever...

 

And yes he is better than Excalibur...

[NN13]

I don't think killing things slower in lower level missions can be called a downside. If you can survive and take them all out ultimately, it's just a matter of time.

 

Besides, some mission don't really need you to take out all enemies to complete.

 

 

The examples you gave aren't strong enough:

 

Valkyr: while being invincible, her attacks are low and having no stealth bonus as Loki. She also suffers from being seen, which means having higher risks while it goes out than invisible.

 

Nyx- Absorb goes out in a sec in high level, and cannot kill enemies. After it ends, she goes down instantly.

 

Nova - even they are slow, take a bullet and she's down. She relies help from teammates, heavily.

 

Ash - no doubt the damage is huge (which falls off at some point nonetheless) but, During the animation, he is stucked. So if he is in a team, he cannot offer other help immediately. If solo, the moment he stops is the time being vulnerable. Again enemies shoot him easily. 

 

They are not easier to play nor stronger than Loki.

Because invisibility + recastable radial disarm really really make things easy. There are no other abilities can make things as easy (relatively) as this combo.

 

Actually, I think the only problem of him is Radial Disarm (Irradiating Disarm). And the fact that the enemies having no tactics to deal with invisibility (well Nullifier is the first one), actually not only to loki but also ash, and sentinels and kubrows. I think the coming new enemies may have something to deal with it.

 

 

valkyr has no range in hysteria she has to melee, plus she has almost no cc ability, loki has no downside of invis, you can use a silenced gun or you can shoot on the run, and in this game weapon damage > skill damage in most cases.

 

nyx is rooted in absorb and you can be killed when you release it and something shoots you, loki can invis, pop decoy when he is about to decloak or hide and decloak and recast, nyx cannot absorb and move, she cannot leave mobs unalerted, and loki gets damage buff to melee on invis.

 

nova can cc but loki does it better, in the game projectile damage from enemies are the major bane of players, under m prime enemies can still shoot at you just slow depending on your build or at a rate depending on what mods you have acquired. loki completely takes all that away and instantly and indefinitely unlike m prime which has to spread outwards at the enemy.

 

ash does do tonnes of damage but he has no cc ability, in a game where difficulty is scaled off of mob stats, cc is more important that damage as damage falls off while cc skills scale infinitely, loki has rd and the aggro mechanic of decoy, plus he has a longer invisibility duration than ash.

 

he is ridiculously easy to play, easiest to build and ridiculously strong, because you dont know how to use him that way or thinks he isnt doesnt discard that fact.

Do you guys even play Warframe?

Did you guys even play with Loki?

 

Seriously,Invisibility doesn't have a downside? Like WTF?

 

Invisibility does not protect you from damage. Any stray bullet or Prova swing can kill you. Also while you are invisible,enemies can approximate your position when you use a non-silent weapon. They cluster around you and the moment you go out of Invisibility,you are dead.

 

Valkyr - She doesn't need Stealth bonus. She has criticals. They are quite good. Also,to play effectively with Loki,you need a very good melee. For Valkyr,its not mandatory. True that a good melee adds to her Hysteria damage,but a not-so-good melee is not a waste on her,which is the case with Loki. Also,the one who said Valkyr will die when she goes out of Hysteria,try playing with her with max armor. See if you die instantly,even at 60 min T4S. You will see that you have more than enough time to go into Hysteria again. Moreover,any damage you take can be recovered due to lifesteal of Hysteria. Loki can not regenerate health.

Also,since you are using Invisibility+Radial Disarm(Irradiating Disarm) to effectively play with Loki, I can easily argue that using Hysteria+Paralysis(Prolonged Paralysis) is an equally OP technique with max range. There are many warframes which seem too OP when you combine their powers. But thats just theory. In practical gameplay,that doesn't always work.

 

Nyx - If you are running out of energy while using absorb,then you need to mod Nyx properly. I do not run out of energy,never. Also,get your facts straight before you argue. Nyx absorb ragdolls all enemies in  range if they are not killed(they are always killed,atleast for me). There is no way they can shoot back.  Also,Loki's decoy can not last even 2 seconds on high levels. It does not give you enough time to recast Invisibility. It's common sense...If Loki goes down from 2 bullets from enemies,what do you think will happen to his decoy? And, Nyx doesn't just have Absorb. A more powerful weapon that Nyx has is Chaos. Then,there is Psychic Bolt and it's augment mod. She can even heal herself by Mind-controlling a healer.

 

Nova - True,that Nova relies on Teammates. But she also actually helps in killing enemies by amplifying teammates damage output. Loki doesnt. He can only CC the enemies. Nova basically trades survivability for damage.

 

Ash - We are talking about Warframes. We are not discussing who is a greater help to their team. That way,Limbo would be the best Warframe,becasue he can make his whole team invulnerable. So,I don't see how helping teammates is a relevant point here.

Also,just like Loki,Ash also have stealth. What he does have in addition is enormous damage output.

 

Also,if we are talking about how a Loki makes a team powerful,there are other team combinations that work better. Different tactics for different missions apply.

 

General Notes-

Do not compare the warframes on the basis of type of mission. Because every warframe has an advantage on certain mission. Frost on Defense,Vauban on Infested Defense,Loki on Spy and Rescue,Damage-dealers on Exterminate,Invasions,Survivals, CC-frames(in general) on high level missions.

 

"I don't think killing things slower in lower level missions can be called a downside. If you can survive and take them all out ultimately, it's just a matter of time.

 

Besides, some mission don't really need you to take out all enemies to complete."

 

Yes,killing slower in a low level mission is a downside. You know what,lets play a low level Mobile Defense. I will use my Excal and you use a non-damaging frame. Lets do this for one week. I will press 4 and bam! You won't even see an enemy. After one week,share your experience.

And it's obvious that anyone can survive on a low level mission. You don't need a Loki for that.

 

Bottomline is - Loki is nothing without good weapons. Loki sucks at lower level co-op missions,since you don't get the time to exercise your tactics.

 

Let me get this straight. Loki is one warframe which has perfect synergy among it's abilities. That is the reason why it is the most powerful warframe for those who knows how to use it and the worst warframe who doesn't know what to do.

 

There is no need to nerf Loki. If anything, other warframes should be buffed/nerfed accordingly to have a similar kind of synergy.

Edited March 4, 2015 by NN13

[CapedBaldy]

Invisibility does not protect you from damage. Any stray bullet or Prova swing can kill you. Also while you are invisible,enemies can approximate your position when you use a non-silent weapon. They cluster around you and the moment you go out of Invisibility,you are dead.

Which you have Irradiating Disarm for.

 

Anyway, please stop claiming that people have not played with Loki. It's incredibly easy to work around Invisibility's downside and the methods may be combined for maximum effectiveness.